Limited atonement !

[brightfame52]

Limited atonement is taught plainly in scripture !

Even though the natural man will attempt to explain away the truth of God as to who Christ specifically came to saved through His blood, yet the testimony of God is true and all men liars.

That Christs death is limited to only a certain segment of men is seen here , a clear statement limiting the recipients of His Death, the Angelic heavenly testimony here Matt 1:20-21

20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.


21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

His People here is another way of saying His Elect/Sheep !

 

[brightfame52]

What I'm seeing here is that you think one passage negates the plain reading of another. Where will it end?

Much love!

Its simple, that scripture identifies who Paul was writing to and about. All subsequent references in regards to the atonement is about them, like 2 Cor 5:14-15

 

[brightfame52]

You are false JUDGING. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I cant wait

 

[brightfame52]

That's not true BF52. Limited Atonement is not Good News, and can't belong to THE Good News...

Yes it is True. And it is good news to the saved Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

 

[marks]

All are not reconciled to God. Reconciliation is on through Faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord God, and Savior from their Sin and Sin's consequences...

Reconciliation ~ by ReverendRV * August 29

2nd Corinthians 5:18 KJV; And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

I would disagree. 2 Corinthians 5 tells us that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, therefore, we are in fact reconciled to God, all men. Roman 5 speaks of us receiving that reconciliation, which is what we have to do.

Much love!

 

[Rightglory]

Its simple, that scripture identifies who Paul was writing to and about. All subsequent references in regards to the atonement is about them, like 2 Cor 5:14-15

You are great at trying to squease a text into your theory of limited atonement. II Cor 5:14-15 is not even directly those you call them, elect.
Here is what the verses are addressing. Paul says that we (apostles) judge thus. that if One died for all, then all died; and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, that for Him who died for them and rose again. This relates to our other discussion on Rom 5:12-19, I Cor 15:12-22.
Christ died for all. Who is the all referring to?
All of mankind. All men suffer death through Adam. All men became mortal. Christ died for all. Why did He die for all. First man was created in His Image. He loves His creation and especially His prized creature man. God wanted to commune with man as He purposed in creating man.d However Adam sinned and the condemnaation of that sin was death. Dust to Dust Gen 3:19. We are made from the dust of the earth and we would all be destined to die and cease to exist permanently. We would live in this world as animals.
God sent His Son, who was Incarnated through the Virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit.
Now, why was it necessary for Christ to assume our human nature. Assume a nature that was susceptible to death?
Because in order to defeat death, He needed to die, so He willingly gave up His life, so that by His Resurrection from that death would also raise all men to life.
As the text says, so that those who live, should live not in sin, but for Him who died for them. It is the only reasons God can call all men to repentance. He desires all men to be saved, (have life eternal with Him) Those not with Him will have eternal life in hell, separated from God for an eternity because they did not Live unto Him.

You should have added vs 19, That God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD to Himself.
This aligns with Heb 2:14, with Heb 2:9, II Tim 1:10, Col 1:20 and others.

Your view of Limited Atonement is impossible concept. There are two elements to Christ's atonement. The primary purpose was of overcome death. Heb 2:9. The secondary one was to be a sacrifice for sin, sins of the world, I John 2:2.

You have a very limited understanding of what atonement actually accomplished. Which might cause you to think it could be limited.
John 3:16-17 also shows both aspects of His atonement.

 

[brightfame52]

I would disagree. 2 Corinthians 5 tells us that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, therefore, we are in fact reconciled to God, all men. Roman 5 speaks of us receiving that reconciliation, which is what we have to do.

Much love!

All men are not reconciled to God. All who are shall be saved by His Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

All are not and will not be saved by His Life as will all the reconciled shall be ! You are teaching a false gospel

 

[brightfame52]

You are great at trying to squease a text into your theory of limited atonement. II Cor 5:14-15 is not even directly those you call them, elect.
Here is what the verses are addressing. Paul says that we (apostles) judge thus. that if One died for all, then all died; and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, that for Him who died for them and rose again. This relates to our other discussion on Rom 5:12-19, I Cor 15:12-22.
Christ died for all. Who is the all referring to?
All of mankind. All men suffer death through Adam. All men became mortal. Christ died for all. Why did He die for all. First man was created in His Image. He loves His creation and especially His prized creature man. God wanted to commune with man as He purposed in creating man.d However Adam sinned and the condemnaation of that sin was death. Dust to Dust Gen 3:19. We are made from the dust of the earth and we would all be destined to die and cease to exist permanently. We would live in this world as animals.
God sent His Son, who was Incarnated through the Virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit.
Now, why was it necessary for Christ to assume our human nature. Assume a nature that was susceptible to death?
Because in order to defeat death, He needed to die, so He willingly gave up His life, so that by His Resurrection from that death would also raise all men to life.
As the text says, so that those who live, should live not in sin, but for Him who died for them. It is the only reasons God can call all men to repentance. He desires all men to be saved, (have life eternal with Him) Those not with Him will have eternal life in hell, separated from God for an eternity because they did not Live unto Him.

You should have added vs 19, That God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD to Himself.
This aligns with Heb 2:14, with Heb 2:9, II Tim 1:10, Col 1:20 and others.

Your view of Limited Atonement is impossible concept. There are two elements to Christ's atonement. The primary purpose was of overcome death. Heb 2:9. The secondary one was to be a sacrifice for sin, sins of the world, I John 2:2.

You have a very limited understanding of what atonement actually accomplished. Which might cause you to think it could be limited.
John 3:16-17 also shows both aspects of His atonement.

Its simple, that scripture identifies who Paul was writing to and about. All subsequent references in regards to the atonement is about them, like 2 Cor 5:14-15 All the epistles are referring to the elect children of God, their experience in Adam and recovery by Christ, their Head.

 

[marks]

All men are not reconciled to God. All who are shall be saved by His Life Rom 5:10

This puts you squarely in conflict with the Bible, which states that it is so. Jesus is the Lamb of God, Who carried away the sin of the world.

Interpret according to context.

God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. Interpret according to context, and in harmony with the related passages.

Much love!

 

[Rightglory]

Its simple, that scripture identifies who Paul was writing to and about. All subsequent references in regards to the atonement is about them, like 2 Cor 5:14-15 All the epistles are referring to the elect children of God, their experience in Adam and recovery by Christ, their Head.

I need some clarification. Do you believe in the Christ the NT presents?
Do you believe Christ was Incarnated and how do you understand this concept?
What is your understanding of the fall?

The reason I'm asking is that your theology does not align with what scripture teaches on the above questions. So, therefore you must have a completely different view of historical Christianity.
Do you believe in a New Heaven and a New Earth?
Do you believe those in hell will live eternally?

 

[dremnant]

Limited Atonement can be understood if you go back to the Old Testament. When the high priest offers the sacrifice, he does it for the nation of Israel only. It does not cover for other nations around them.

The same way for the sacrifice on the cross. It's meant for those which the Father gave Him (John 6:44, 10:29).

 

[brightfame52]

This puts you squarely in conflict with the Bible, which states that it is so. Jesus is the Lamb of God, Who carried away the sin of the world.

Interpret according to context.

God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. Interpret according to context, and in harmony with the related passages.

Much love!

Again All men are not reconciled to God. All who are shall be saved by His Life Rom 5:10

 

[brightfame52]

I need some clarification. Do you believe in the Christ the NT presents?
Do you believe Christ was Incarnated and how do you understand this concept?
What is your understanding of the fall?

The reason I'm asking is that your theology does not align with what scripture teaches on the above questions. So, therefore you must have a completely different view of historical Christianity.
Do you believe in a New Heaven and a New Earth?
Do you believe those in hell will live eternally?

Its simple, that scripture identifies who Paul was writing to and about. All subsequent references in regards to the atonement is about them, like 2 Cor 5:14-15 All the epistles are referring to the elect children of God, their experience in Adam and recovery by Christ, their Head.

 

[marks]

Again All men are not reconciled to God. All who are shall be saved by His Life Rom 5:10

Again, you are contradicted by Scripture, as already noted. Context.

Much love!

 

[brightfame52]

False religionist think that the world that Jesus Christ is reconciling to Himself includes all mankind as in 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

But the next statement in this verse restricts the word “world” (kosmos) to God’s chosen ones by the words “their” and “them” which refer to the elect. When we were reconciled before God, our trespasses were not counted against us because Jesus Christ paid for them in full. He did not pay for all the sins of all men. Hence, the text proves the number is restricted. The extent of Christ’s dying for all is understood in the light of all for whom Christ died. Christ did not purchase universal redemption: “As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the 26 Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep” John 10:15

 

[brightfame52]

Another passage of scripture that evidences the range of the death of Christ Jn 10:11,15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Now Christ Sheep and His People are One and the same. Lets look at a Psalm for proof Ps 100:3

3 Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

And since scripture evidences that some of His Sheep are non jews/gentiles by Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep[gentiles] I have, which are not of this[jewish] fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Then its spiritually logical that His People in Matt 1:21 are not all of the jewish fold but also from among the gentile fold. Thats what James meant here Acts 15:14

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.1

 

[Rightglory]

Limited Atonement can be understood if you go back to the Old Testament. When the high priest offers the sacrifice, he does it for the nation of Israel only. It does not cover for other nations around them.

The same way for the sacrifice on the cross. It's meant for those which the Father gave Him (John 6:44, 10:29).

You may not have understood all the evidence and comment to this point that clearly shows limited atonement does not, cannot exist in scripture. It basically denies everything Christ accomplished. So, here are some more texts that clearly shows Limited atonement is denied in scripture.
Col 1:19-20 This is probably the most clear and comprehensive text that categorically denies limited atonement. A corresponding text(context) is John 6:39-40. This context separates the all, everything, from those that believe. vs 39 is referencing that God gave everything to Christ, He would lose none but raise IT up the last day. We know that all men will be raised in the last day, we also know that in the last day, Christ will establish the New Heaven and New Earth.
Then vs 40 tells us why He reconciled the world, all, everything to Himself. That everyone who SEES the Son AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE, Some more texts that state clearly God through Christ was reconciling the world to Himself. John 4:14, John 3:16-17. These texts also state quite emphatically that Christ did not arbitrarily, or unilaterally impose on any man a spiritual relationship, namely the idea of election of believers.
More texts that show universality of the atonement. Heb 2:9, Heb 2:14, II Tim 1:10, John 5:28-29, Rom 11:32, I John 2:2, John 1:29, John 4:42.
Here is a list of texts that support the view of unlimited atonement: Acts 24:15; Acts 23:6; I Cor 15:52-53, Eph 1:10; John 5:28, John 12: 32, I Tim 4:10, Is 26:19, Dan 12:2, Luke 2:30-32, Rev 20:12-13.

 

[Rightglory]

Its simple, that scripture identifies who Paul was writing to and about. All subsequent references in regards to the atonement is about them, like 2 Cor 5:14-15 All the epistles are referring to the elect children of God, their experience in Adam and recovery by Christ, their Head.

Irrelevant response. You did not even attempt to answer my questions. As much as you claim scripture teaches limited atonement, you cannot back it up with scripture. All you do is state your opinion with no evidence.

 

[brightfame52]

Irrelevant response. You did not even attempt to answer my questions. As much as you claim scripture teaches limited atonement, you cannot back it up with scripture. All you do is state your opinion with no evidence.

Its simple, that scripture identifies who Paul was writing to and about. All subsequent references in regards to the atonement is about them, like 2 Cor 5:14-15 All the epistles are referring to the elect children of God, their experience in Adam and recovery by Christ, their Head.

 

[shepherdsword]

The truth of limited atonement is vital to the Christian Gospel, there's no Gospel without it. See 1 Cor 15:3. It refers specifically to the Death of Christ on the Cross, which death fully satisfied the law and justice of God for not all human beings but only for a certain group, the elect of God, Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

Now let's get one thing understood, when i speak of limited atonement, i don't mean by any means that Christ atoning death is limited in its power, but that its limited in that it doesn't cover or apply to everyone, but only applies to and covers the elect or chosen of God or the Church of God in Christ, or Gods Sheep. Jn 10

Limited atonement is contradicted by scripture:

1 Jn 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Christ died for the sins of the world. However, not everyone freely chooses to take the invite below.

Rv 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.