Last day prophecies fulfilled

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ScottA

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I see your understanding Scott. You are referring to the days of Mat 24, yes sir Jesus gave those instructions to his apostles to answer their question of what would be the time of his presence. The chapter gives many signs, some of which have been fulfilled, some yet to be, to identify that his presence began. So I agree with you we are in those days that will not exceed a generation. The first sign was fulfilled with the outbreak of WW#1 so that was a long time back, so like most Biblically educated people, we too believe we are very near the end of those days. It is one more step in the fulfillment of the Bibles theme based on the first prophecy given by God recorded for us at Gen 3:15
It is no sign of Jesus' coming/return to just jump in during your own generation, except for the time of His coming/return to that particular generation. As for wars and rumors of wars--they have always been. Thus, the first generation to see that sign was "this" generation to whom He actually spoke, saying "you", and then is true of every generation following also because there were wars and rumors of wars during them all.

As for those signs you believe are yet unfulfilled--name one, and I will show you when it was/is fulfilled also.
 

Robert Gwin

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It is no sign of Jesus' coming/return to just jump in during your own generation, except for the time of His coming/return to that particular generation. As for wars and rumors of wars--they have always been. Thus, the first generation to see that sign was "this" generation to whom He actually spoke, saying "you", and then is true of every generation following also because there were wars and rumors of wars during them all.

As for those signs you believe are yet unfulfilled--name one, and I will show you when it was/is fulfilled also.
Did you overlook the sign Scott, what did Jesus contrast with the wars and rumors of wars? The wars and rumors of wars was not part of the sign, and like you Jesus was basically saying they have always been
 

Robert Gwin

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It is no sign of Jesus' coming/return to just jump in during your own generation, except for the time of His coming/return to that particular generation. As for wars and rumors of wars--they have always been. Thus, the first generation to see that sign was "this" generation to whom He actually spoke, saying "you", and then is true of every generation following also because there were wars and rumors of wars during them all.

As for those signs you believe are yet unfulfilled--name one, and I will show you when it was/is fulfilled also.
Well for one Scott, the upcoming great tribulation
 

ScottA

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Did you overlook the sign Scott, what did Jesus contrast with the wars and rumors of wars? The wars and rumors of wars was not part of the sign, and like you Jesus was basically saying they have always been
I was referring to "wars and rumors of wars." What are you referring to?
 

Robert Gwin

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I was referring to "wars and rumors of wars." What are you referring to?
As you might be able to discern Scott, that was not part of the sign, that was given in past tense, whereas the sign began in the next verse, Jesus contrasted something to wars and rumors of wars, what was that sir?
 

ScottA

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As you might be able to discern Scott, that was not part of the sign, that was given in past tense, whereas the sign began in the next verse, Jesus contrasted something to wars and rumors of wars, what was that sir?
Okay...we are officially off track. I had noticed asked you:

"As for those signs you believe are yet unfulfilled--name one, and I will show you when it was/is fulfilled also."​
So, no, I have not missed the sign...but I don't believe you named one that is yet unfulfilled. Did you post one I missed?
 

Robert Gwin

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Okay...we are officially off track. I had noticed asked you:

"As for those signs you believe are yet unfulfilled--name one, and I will show you when it was/is fulfilled also."​
So, no, I have not missed the sign...but I don't believe you named one that is yet unfulfilled. Did you post one I missed?
Going back through the discussions Scott, I believe you are correct, I didn't name one, I thought I did, either it didnt get saved, or I posted it to someone else, the great tribulation has not yet happened bringing the earth to the point of extinction and the return of Christ Mat 24:21,22
 

ScottA

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Going back through the discussions Scott, I believe you are correct, I didn't name one, I thought I did, either it didnt get saved, or I posted it to someone else, the great tribulation has not yet happened bringing the earth to the point of extinction and the return of Christ Mat 24:21,22
:) Smiles for the mix up.

As for the idea of the great tribulation not yet happening, can you name a greater tribulation that "all" tribulation of all history, past, present, and future, that was placed upon Christ?

In other words, can you explain how it is that you believe that "all" is not "all", and how there is an exception to "all" tribulations yet coming in the future, making "all" a lie?
 

Robert Gwin

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:) Smiles for the mix up.

As for the idea of the great tribulation not yet happening, can you name a greater tribulation that "all" tribulation of all history, past, present, and future, that was placed upon Christ?

In other words, can you explain how it is that you believe that "all" is not "all", and how there is an exception to "all" tribulations yet coming in the future, making "all" a lie?
Yes sir, the one Jesus prophesied about in Mat 24, the one I mentioned. It will not only kill one person, but nearly the entire human race as I pointed out.
 

ScottA

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Yes sir, the one Jesus prophesied about in Mat 24, the one I mentioned. It will not only kill one person, but nearly the entire human race as I pointed out.
You misunderstand.

There is only One person--only One who is alive, only One who is begotten...in whom all live or die--the living and the dead.
 

Robert Gwin

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You misunderstand.

There is only One person--only One who is alive, only One who is begotten...in whom all live or die--the living and the dead.
You asked I answered, and you didn't respond coherently, why not sir?
 

ScottA

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You asked I answered, and you didn't respond coherently, why not sir?
I did answer, but it is as I said..."You misunderstand."

The point is not the lesser tribulations that kill and make all flesh extinct, but rather "all" those same lesser tribulations put upon Christ making it the greatest "tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be." Which time is not future (except in the lesser), as it has already come upon Christ.
 

Robert Gwin

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I did answer, but it is as I said..."You misunderstand."

The point is not the lesser tribulations that kill and make all flesh extinct, but rather "all" those same lesser tribulations put upon Christ making it the greatest "tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be." Which time is not future (except in the lesser), as it has already come upon Christ.
No doubt it will not be much longer to settle this sir. We believe we are on the verge of the great tribulation. The world scene indicates it could break out any time now.
 

ScottA

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No doubt it will not be much longer to settle this sir. We believe we are on the verge of the great tribulation. The world scene indicates it could break out any time now.
I suggest then that you ask yourself, "Knowing that all tribulations--the sum of all tribulations past, present, and future have been put upon Christ already, why do you look for it yet to come?"

Or do you not want to hear anything but what you already believe, even if you are wrong? If so, tell me and I will stop pestering you.
 
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Robert Gwin

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I suggest then that you ask yourself, "Knowing that all tribulations--the sum all tribulations past, present, and future have been put upon Christ already, why do you look for it yet to come?"

Or do you not want to hear anything but what you already believe, even if you are wrong? If so, tell me and I will stop pestering you.
I disagree with you, in fact the very fact this system is still going proves your theory to be wrong, the generation that read those words has long since expired sir, over a millennium ago. So like I said, it will be answered when it comes, the signs we see indicate it is very near.
 

ScottA

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I disagree with you, in fact the very fact this system is still going proves your theory to be wrong, the generation that read those words has long since expired sir, over a millennium ago. So like I said, it will be answered when it comes, the signs we see indicate it is very near.
That answers the first question of why you look for a greater tribulation to come than was put on Christ although it is written "nor shall ever be" after the sum total of all tribulations were put upon Him. So, thank you, you have stated the crux of the problem.

But what "system" do you refer to? Surely you refer to the unbelief of those who do not believe all that is written, but believe rather what their eyes have seen rather than what was told them. Surely, you, like they, are not referring to the fact that all that Jesus said would "shortly take place" and that has taken place "soon" thereafter according to just how He said it would occur, rather than how it was believed for not having seen it occur against the way it was said it would occur. Which is to say, you and they have believed what you have seen rather than what is written--so don't tell me what is written. If you have a question about what is written, ask it and I will answer. But do not continue to assume that you are at all qualified to bring scripture to the table--because you are not.

What is written that you have not acknowledged or understood, is that what was to come was not at all what you have expected, but what is actually written--that these days would be "as the days of Noah" where most would not perceive anything of what was actually taking place; that Jesus laid down His body, saying, "take, eat, this is my body", which was then revealed after gross misunderstanding (just as what I have been telling you has been grossly misunderstood), as being and act by Jesus of giving His body to His church, of which He was to only be the Head. Therefore, Paul came to say, "for me, to live is Christ"--which is to say "for me, to live is the Son of God!"--that same claim that got Jesus crucified! Nonetheless, Paul was correct to say it in that way, because that is what is written of what Jesus said would occur rather than what has been believed. What Jesus said that should have been believed about Jesus' body being given to the church, is how He said He would do it--and why you believe that all He said has not yet occurred, even thought He said it would and it has unbeknownst to these many generations, has been occurring but unseen to the blind in this way: "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me." Which what--you think He has not done, because He has been doing so in the spirit, which is His coming [again] in the power and glory of God (whom is spirit) which you have not seen?

Thus, I have been telling you all that has occurred just as it is written. Which has been occurring just as it is also written, just as Paul went on to reveal that all this would come, not as you "expect" as Jesus said, "but each one in his own order." But not seeing, nor even hearing or acknowledging all of what is written, many have not believed.

As for not wanting to hear what is actually true if it does not agree with what you have come to believe and are holding fast to attempting to hold the door of revelations closed against the power of God, your response indicates that you do not want to hear it, but also that you need to hear it.
 
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MatthewG

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Is it taught that Jesus returned in 1914, according to Jehovah witness @Robert Gwin. It was something I heard that perhaps you could let me know if you do believe that or is it just something some person stated that wasn’t true?
 

dad

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The only direct prophecy that has been fulfilled is Israel being called back to her land to be prepared to pass under the rod of Gods Judgment. That began in 1948.

But with that many prophecies or declarations were fulfilled. The shekel restored, Hebrew restored. A nation born in a day!

Indirectly- Most of Jerusalem under Jewish control again.
The plans for the rebuilding of the temple are complete.
The alliance of the Gog invasion of Israel is complete.
Can you show us the prophesy you refer to about Israel being called back to the land?
 

dad

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The 1948 return of some of Abraham's descendants in their own strength was foretold by God to Abraham in Genesis 15:16.
Looking at a commentary it says that refers to ancient history.
"

Verse 16​


And in the fourth generation they shall come hither again,.... The seed of Abram were in the land of Canaan before their descent into Egypt; and it is here predicted and promised, that they should come thither again, as they did, in the fourth generation of those that descended thither; for Moses and Aaron were the fourth from Levi, or Eleazar from Kohath, and Caleb from Judah; or rather this was in the fourth age or century from the birth of Isaac, when the four hundred were up before mentioned, men living at that time about an hundred years"


In what way do you claim that was about 1948?
 

Jay Ross

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Looking at a commentary it says that refers to ancient history.
"

Verse 16​


And in the fourth generation they shall come hither again,.... The seed of Abram were in the land of Canaan before their descent into Egypt; and it is here predicted and promised, that they should come thither again, as they did, in the fourth generation of those that descended thither; for Moses and Aaron were the fourth from Levi, or Eleazar from Kohath, and Caleb from Judah; or rather this was in the fourth age or century from the birth of Isaac, when the four hundred were up before mentioned, men living at that time about an hundred years"


In what way do you claim that was about 1948?
But, it is recorded that there were ten descendant generation recorded as being born in Egypt during the 430 years that they lived in Egypt from the time that Jacob/Israel went down to Egypt. 1 Chron 7:20-29 is shown in the diagram below: -

1670360255629.png

As for Arron and Moses being of the fourth descendant from Levi, the bible is silent on providing this information.

Also, the Hebrew word, וְד֥וֹר "wə·ḏō·wr" with the embedded Hebrew Root word H:1755 is better understood to have the meaning of and "age" and the length of an age is around 1,000 years. It is my understanding that Isaac was born around the year 2052 BC and since some of Abraham's descendants return to take possession of the Land of Canaan in the year 1948 AD, there was 4,000 years between when the Birth of Isaac and the return of some of Abraham's descendants to the land.

This 4,000-year timespan was beyond the scholars' ability to comprehend and so they wrongly claimed that the second prophecy concerning Israel's distant future in verse 16 was actual a part of the near future prophecy concerning God bring Israel out of Egypt some 635 years after the Birth of Isaac.

As for Gill's commentary, and many others, I have little faith in their expressed thoughts concerning this prophecy in Genesis 15:16.

The Genealogy of Ephraim's descendants disproves the assumption that only four descendant generations were born in Egypt.

Shalom