JOHN 14:12 WHATSOEVER YOU ASK

[Doug]

To the Jew first then also to the gentiles, the Greeks, to all flesh.

If the New Testament (covenant) isn’t to us but only to Israel, then what Hope do we have? We all have had fathers who have corrected us after the flesh, but God for our profit that we may partake in His Holiness. To partake in His Holiness then how can we partake in His Holiness, if the New Covenant is only to Israel? He said to Israel that He would remove the heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh, and put a New Spirit in them. My heart has been stony. I need a New heart, and a New Spirit within. Not the spirit the world gave unto you of fear unto bondage again…but the Spirit of Love and of power and of a sound mind. Not being tossed between two minds, carried about by every wind of mens doctrine

In Paul we find that the shed blood of the new testament has been applied to us for forgiveness..................the new covenant is only for Israel.........God makes no covenant with us............you can learn from it and make some applications but cant take it literally as being for us

 

[VictoryinJesus]

In Paul we find that the shed blood of the new testament has been applied to us for forgiveness..................the new covenant is only for Israel.........God makes no covenant with us............you can learn from it and make some applications but cant take it literally as being for us

Help me understand. You don’t observe the Lords breaking of bread and drinking of His blood? You don’t observe baptism. You don’t observe we need a New heart, no transforming of the mind, no “I will put a New Spirit within you” …?

 

[Doug]

Revisiting to our OP now that it makes more sense what you are saying.
Key things that stand out in what you said in the OP:

You said we must “rightly divide” scripture and understand that in this dispensation we cannot think we will receive whatever we ask. What if to rightly divide the word of truth is not concerning dispensation, but instead “to rightly dividing” is the “breaking of bread” which Jesus Christ spoke of in 1 Corinthians 11:23-25 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: [24] And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do (rightly dividing and distributing to the poor) in remembrance of me. [25] After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do you, as oft as you drink it, in remembrance of me.

To “rightly divide the word of truth”
Isaiah 58:7 Lexicon: "Is it not to divide your bread with the hungry And bring the homeless poor into the house; When you see the naked, to cover him; And not to hide yourself from your own flesh?



To divide your bread with the poor, as Paul said right before Jesus Christ breaking bread, Paul spoke of what he had been given of the Lord, he gave Strong's Hebrew: 6536. פָּרַס (paras) -- To spread, stretch out, break in pieces


To spread, stretch out, break in pieces, to distribute to the poor.

I’m curious if you observe the breaking of bread, where He rightly divided and indeed did distribute bread (His saying I am the bread) cast (His seed)) abroad to the poor and destitute.

I’m curious how far it goes with your saying first ..that you’ve “rightly divided” yet If what is to be rightly divided is “do this in remembrance of Me” which is His blood shed the New Testament…if it the New Testament is only to Israel then “to righty divide” “this is My body broken for you” is only to Israel also. Only Israel conditional that they “rightly divide”. Why is it conditional that you rightly divide the word of truth? Do you keep in remembrance the breaking of bread in “this is My body broken for you”, if so why if the New Testament is only to Israel? Questions I have regarding your asserting the New Testament is only to Israel .

Rightly dividing is teaching the word correctly..........for example........Jesus preached the verse in Isiah, but he only applied part of the verse at that time

[Isa 61:2 KJV] 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

[Luk 4:19-20 KJV] 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave [it] again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

 

[Doug]

Breaking it up so it’s not so much in one post. What also stands out for why you assert the New Covenant must be only to Israel :
1) we cannot think we will receive whatever we ask.
2)to think (we will receive whatever we ask) was to us will lead only to disillusion and disappointment.

James 4:1-3 From where come wars and fightings among you?(from the works of the flesh not yet dead among you) come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? [2] You lust, and have not: you kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: you fight and war, yet you have not, because you ask not. [3] You ask, and receive not, because you ask amiss, that you may consume it upon your lusts.

only sharing what the above means to me. First, all works of the flesh, not to Israel only…but all fight and war and lust to have.

You have proposed the reason we receive not whatever we ask is because (ask whatever in His Name and He will give you whatever you ask) was never to us but to Israel only. You clarify THAT(because it was to Israel only) is why we will be disappointed by not receiving whatever we ask. That is NOT what the above says is the reason you ask and receive not. It does not say you will be disappointed because you didn’t rightly divide the Bible to realize “ask and whatever you ask will be given” was only to Israel. Is actually says the reason you don’t receive whatever you ask is because “you want to devour it on your own lust.”

I’d reconsider if I were you…instead of explaining away the reason we ask and receive not whatever asked …is because it was only to Israel. It distracts from you ask and receive not that you may devour it on your own lust.

If we desire and ask for brothers to be given(born of God), for an increasing and adding to the body of Christ…why would God not give whatever we ask? Except for His saying: you ask and lust to have brethren, so you can eat them up and consume them up and devour them on your own lust and greed. We are warned “they desire to make merchandise of you”. Should we reduce “be careful you don’t consume(devour one another)” to you don’t have because it was only to Israel, having nothing to do with that you may devour brothers(the increase) on your own lust.

The goodness and mercy of God is He will not increase or give what He knows we will devour on our own lust. That is merciful, Paul understood this when he set with a brother too afraid to eat, a brother whom was weak having not the knowledge of Christ…Paul instructed to not use the power given of God to destroy a brother who was yet still weak and without power. For in harming a weak brother, he would devour and consume what was given of God on his own lust, and in so doing (he became guilty) devouring one who was weak; he sinned against Christ.

[Jer 31:31 KJV] 31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
First off I say the new covenant was for Israel is because that is what it says

Yes we can learn from James but in John 14:15 Jesus linked receiving what is asked with keeping the commandments given to Israel

 

[amigo de christo]

Few on Earth know the real Jesus. 3 fake ones are being taught to mislead.

Few on earth DO know the REAL JESUS . now that statement in and of itself is TRUE .
SO , so how does one truly truly know if the jesus they follow IS THE TRUE JESUS .
OH the answer is real simple . IN fact its so simple a child can know it .
But what says you .

 

[Doug]

Help me understand. You don’t observe the Lords breaking of bread and drinking of His blood? You don’t observe baptism. You don’t observe we need a New heart, no transforming of the mind, no “I will put a New Spirit within you” …?

The breaking of bread and the cup for us is revealed to Paul as being the communion of the body of Christ and his blood 1 Corinthians 10:16
I dont adhere to water baptism but rather Spirit baptism into Christ 1 Corinthians 12:13

Yes transforming our mind Romans 12:2

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Rightly dividing is teaching the word correctly..........for example........Jesus preached the verse in Isiah, but he only applied part of the verse at that time

[Isa 61:2 KJV] 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

[Luk 4:19-20 KJV] 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave [it] again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

I’ll never win that debate regarding the pause. To me He stopped reading because he hadn’t yet went to the cross, and as He said “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.” John 16:7
“To comfort those who mourn”
Isaiah moves on to
Isaiah 61:3-4 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified. [4] And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.

He is called the repairer of the breach, the restorer of paths to dwell in.
Isaiah 58:11-14 And the LORD shall guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not. [12] And they that shall be of You(of the Spirit of Christ) shall build the old waste places: You(of the Spirit of Christ) shall raise (Lift)up the foundations of many generations; and You shall be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.

Still, I don’t think rightly dividing the bread of truth is not regarding a pause, but what comes after his shutting of the book and giving it back to the misters…Him who became poor (obedient even unto death) that we may be rich towards God was going to do what no other man would do (Job 16:2 I have heard many such things: miserable comforters are you all.)
If we are not to become New Creatures under not a new command but one you have had from the beginning, although I give you a new command that you have not heard, “Love your neighbor” if there is no New covenant and no “a New Spirit I will put in you” then we are without that New Spirit given of Go which is the seed of Christ remains in you. That isn’t hopeful to me …

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The only comment is you cant take what was said in Matthew 6:33 17:20 as being to us.......it was directed to Israel

 

[Doug]

To me He stopped reading because he hadn’t yet went to the cross,

He stopped because it was not for them to be declared vengence

 

[Doug]

I’ll never win that debate regarding the pause.

Its not a debate.................its understanding the Word of God to align with his purpose

 

[Doug]

your reply is blank

 

[VictoryinJesus]

He stopped because it was not for them to be declared vengence

Agree vengeance belongs unto the Lord. Yet still it’s significant (Imo) He read this prior to going to the cross. Which I don’t think contradicts but is the same as “He stopped because it was not for them to be declared vengeance. John 16:5-11 But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asks me, where do you go? [6] But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart. [7] Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. [8] And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: [9] Of sin, because they believe not on me; [10] Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; [11] Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Its not a debate.................its understanding the Word of God to align with his purpose

here is a question that may help me understand where you are coming from. I’m curious. A New covenant and the New Testament… are they the same or do you see a new covenant different from a testament? If you do see the New Covenant God told Israel He would make with them, where God would remove the heart of stone and give unto them a heart of flesh, and He would put a New Spirit in them and they will keep His commandments. <is the New covenant God will make with them Different from The New Testament, do you think the New Testament is to us? Or is the New Testament to Israel only?

 

[Doug]

. A New covenant and the New Testament… are they the same or do you see a new covenant different from a testament?

let me hold off on this.........I just happen to have started a post on this yesterday

 

[Doug]

here is a question that may help me understand where you are coming from. I’m curious. A New covenant and the New Testament… are they the same or do you see a new covenant different from a testament? If you do see the New Covenant God told Israel He would make with them, where God would remove the heart of stone and give unto them a heart of flesh, and He would put a New Spirit in them and they will keep His commandments. <is the New covenant God will make with them Different from The New Testament, do you think the New Testament is to us? Or is the New Testament to Israel only?

The new testament and new covenant are interrelated but there is a difference.......below is the link to my post

• Thread watched

IS THE NEW TESTAMENT AND THE NEW COVENANT THE SAME?

 

[Doug]

do you think the New Testament is to us? Or is the New Testament to Israel only?

The new testament was for the remission of the sins for many....the many are Israel (Hebrews 9:15)........revealed to Paul was Christ's death and shed blood were applied for our salvation

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The new testament and new covenant are interrelated but there is a difference.......below is the link to my post

• Thread watched

IS THE NEW TESTAMENT AND THE NEW COVENANT THE SAME?

I did read it. I’m not seeing why it has to be made complicated. I’m not seeing how the old covenant, the ministration of condemnation, sin unto death, is not the Old Testament. —that which is passing away…

I’m not seeing how the new covenant, the ministration of the Spirit (written not with ink, but written in the heart by the Spirit of God), obedience unto righteousness…I don’t see how this is not the New Testament. ….that which is to come, and remain. “Though our outward man perishes, the inward man is renewed.”

It keeps going back to the operation of God, the circumcision made without hands, the circumcision of Christ, the circumcision of God for the removal of sin, the heart of stone, and a new heart given, where the Spirit of God writes on the heart, and puts a New Spirit within.

How do you say God will remove the heart of stone and give a new heart, and put a new Spirit within? What is the operation of God? What happens during the operation of God? How else will the heart of stone be removed? What new covenant is needed to be made with Israel in the days coming, besides the New Testament Given by the Revelation of Christ?

I get your argument that “in the days to come I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and Judah…” was only to Israel God will make a New covenant in the days to come. But (Imo) like we all get at times, becoming so hyper focused on a passage that we refuse to see anything else. “in the days to come” “I will make a new covenant reminds me of what Jesus Christ said to the Samaritan woman. John 4:21-26 Jesus says unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour comes, when you shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. [22] You worship you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. [23] But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him. [24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. [25] The woman says unto him, I know that Messias comes, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. [26] Jesus says unto her, I that speak unto you am he.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Its not a debate.................its understanding the Word of God to align with his purpose

Is God’s purpose a new covenant he will make only in those days with Israel and Judah or > and again, I don’t see how the New Covenant is not the New Testament of God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him. [24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[Doug]

n, I don’t see how the New Covenant is not the New Testament

Jesus made. the new testament as being the testator (the one who makes last will and testament).........
Jesus as testator before his death stated his will as being that his death and shed blood would be for the remission of sins for Israel:
[Mat 26:28 KJV] 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

God predetermined that Christ would die and shed his blood to forgive sin.......the blood of bulls and goats was a picture of Christ's sacrifice and accepted to cleanse Israel in the flesh as was water baptisms

God made the old covenant with Israel and Israel agreed to keep all of the law.......Israel transgressed the covenant.........Jesus redeemed Israel's sins under the first covenant (Hebrew 9:15)

Without the new testament ...........without Christ's shed blood.........how would God remain just in forgiving Israel sins only with the covenant

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Jesus made. the new testament as being the testator (the one who makes last will and testament).........
Jesus as testator before his death stated his will as being that his death and shed blood would be for the remission of sins for Israel:
[Mat 26:28 KJV] 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

God predetermined that Christ would die and shed his blood to forgive sin.......the blood of bulls and goats was a picture of Christ's sacrifice and accepted to cleanse Israel in the flesh as was water baptisms

God made the old covenant with Israel and Israel agreed to keep all of the law.......Israel transgressed the covenant.........Jesus redeemed Israel's sins under the first covenant (Hebrew 9:15)

Without the new testament ...........without Christ's shed blood.........how would God remain just in forgiving Israel sins only with the covenant

How will God remain just in forgiving Israel sins only with the new covenant?

The new covenant God will make in the days coming is God will perform it. Which is (Imo) what Jesus Christ spoke of as the New Testament. You still haven’t clarified how
Ezekiel 11:19-20 And I will give them one heart, (the mind of Christ) and a new spirit (the Spirit of My Son crying Abba Father) I will put within them. I will remove the heart of stone (the stone too heavy for man to remove on his own, was witnessed rolled away from the mouth of the tomb) from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh(Paul said I have no other than Timothy to send who will naturally care for your state, for ALL men have gone after their own lust and not after the things that belong to God), [20] that they may walk in my statutes and keep my rules and obey them. (Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit—the New Spirit God gives unto you of power, of love, and of a sound mind…not the spirit the world gave unto you of fear unto the bondage, of death, again—, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.)
And they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
…Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

I’m not understanding do you think a day has yet to come when God will make a new covenant with Israel where God will remove the heart of stone, …and After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts(though our outer man perishes, the inward man is renewed), and write it in their hearts;(you are the epistle of Christ written on the heart, read of all men)
^that is the New Testament, the circumcision made without hands, the circumcision of Christ. Where God said “I will do it”. I still don’t get the new covenant is only to Israel, for all were found guilty. In the New Covenant God makes with Israel —He puts a New Spirit in them. If you have the Spirit of Christ within…is the Spirit God puts in them (to Israel only not to gentiles, Greeks, male only and not female, to the free only and not to those bound) a different Spirit other than Christ in you? What other Spirit is that Spirit when God makes a New covenant with Israel in the days coming, “I will put a New Spirit in them …casting away the stone and giving them one new heart, and I will write in the inward parts “Christ”
Galatians 4:19-22 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, [20] I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you. [21] Tell me, you that desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? [22] For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.