James 4:12 Who are you to judge your neighbor?

[MatthewG]

If you feel like you need to judge people, by all means, follow the spirit of Christ.

 

[MatthewG]

When it comes down to judgment. We all have to judge our responses, our actions, the way we do things. No one on this planet is perfect. I tend to judge people I don't even really know. Fault on my end? Sure. I can't be perfect like Jesus Christ, and if you can find someone more perfect than him, please share that with me.

 

[MatthewG]

In short, authority gives us the right to judge.

There are only 4 categories of those in authority recognized in the Bible:

1. Parents
2. Master (Boss)
3. Husband
4. Civil & Pastorial leaders

While we may have opinions of those not under our authority, we need not give voice to it unless asked. In my experience, if people don't ask your opinion, odds are they don't want to hear it. This especially applies to religious doctrines and moral issues.

Does anyone have the authority to say a person is not a Christian, whom believes in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus though.

That is my entire question. I get we have Governing Authorities and that is different.

 

[ElieG12]

Within the congregations (organized communities) that are led by Jesus, there are people assigned to judge the anti-Christian behavior of their members. In the Bible, these service positions are called in Greek ἐπισκοπή and διάκονος (1 Tim. 3:1, 8). These people are responsible for keeping these congregations clean of practices that are normal for Satan's world, but not for the future subjects of the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God has its laws, and whoever wants to "migrate" there in the future, has to abide by its laws, or he cannot live there.

Those who judge or forgive themselves are typically the ones who reject their community's established order or have no affiliation with one. They follow their own path and act based on their personal judgment. This world is full of those, who think they are Christians just because they think so, but they do not really belong ... (Matt. 7:21-23). They are their own ἐπισκοπή and διάκονος.

PS: Jesus' messages to congregations in Revelation are instructions to those in a position to keep local congregations clean from misconduct that dishonors God's name.

 

[Verily]

Someone can believe in what Jesus did and be a brother and be told not to have company with him see?

2 Thes 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

2 Thes 3:15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Shunning is a practice done by the Amish that a person feels ashamed, and repents so they can be restored, its a strong form of love, not like the weak sappy, hug you for everything you do wrong kind of love.

 

[Wrangler]

Does anyone have the authority to say a person is not a Christian, whom believes in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus though.

Many seem to think so. LOL

People have the right to speak their opinion. Authority is different. I take people at their word of their religious conviction.

 

[MatthewG]

ElieG12, thank you for sharing your views.

 

[MatthewG]

Many seem to think so. LOL

Are they right? Or are they wrong?

People have the right to speak their opinion.

Of course, they do. Just as many people believe they have the right to quote the bible and make it about themselves. "As though the letters are written to them in this day in age." Which leads to all types of confusion within itself.

Authority is different.

What do you mean?

I take people at their word of their religious conviction.

What do you mean?

 

[Wrangler]

Are they right? Or are they wrong?

They are wrong. Only God knows your heart.

I could be wrong but I thought we talked about this before. It’s one thing to pay lip service while contradicting every Biblical command with impunity. That’s not what I see too often.

Mostly, it’s self-righteous people saying such things based on doctrinal adherence. There is no doctrinal purity test beyond Romans 10:9, as far as I can tell.

Authority is different.

I take people at their word of their religious conviction.

What do you mean?

Everyone has rights. Not everyone has authority over you.

If someone has authority over you, there is an obligation to submit to their judgment. If it is someone who doesn’t have authority but is expressing their opinion, you can take it under advisement.

What do you make of my friend of 35 years buying his 15 or 16th guitar?

Regarding people who claim to be Christian, I take their word for it. By this, I mean that I don’t hold anyone to a doctrinal purity test. We are all walking different paths and on different points along that path, all lead to meeting our Maker.

I hope I answered your questions.

 

[MatthewG]

They are wrong. Only God knows your heart.

I could be wrong but I thought we talked about this before. It’s one thing to pay lip service while contradicting every Biblical command with impunity. That’s not what I see too often.

Mostly, it’s self-righteous people saying such things based on doctrinal adherence. There is no doctrinal purity test beyond Romans 10:9, as far as I can tell.

Do you think it's wrong to have a concern for people? I'll give you an example that happened to me at work. There is this woman who moved her client over to his bed so he can lay down but he was moved by another coworker back to the spot they were original set up. This woman expected me to converse with her as though she needs that activity in order to get by. My client relatively likes it to be quiet, and we sit in the next room over from where she had been taken back to.

She said "Matthew are you alright?"
I told her, "Yes, I can stand the quietness, I appreciate your concern but you don't have to ask me."
Her whole demeanor changed afterwards, but was I right or wrong? I believe personally I am looking for whats best for my own client, and not her needs, which she needs to be there for her client, and not me. I try to handle things by the spirit of Christ, even if does sound like I am being rude, sometimes I am truly not being rude, I am being authentic.

Do you believe that these things have any merit?

Everyone has rights. Not everyone has authority over you.

Yes I agree with that.

If someone has authority over you, there is an obligation to submit to their judgment. If it is someone who doesn’t have authority but is expressing their opinion, you can take it under advisement.

There is nothing wrong in my opinion with taking what a person says to you. However that doesn't always make them right.

What do you make of my friend of 35 years buying his 15 or 16th guitar?

Play the heck out of it, buy more. It's not a concern to me what a man does with his own money.

Regarding people who claim to be Christian, I take their word for it.

That's cool.

By this, I mean that I don’t hold anyone to a doctrinal purity test. We are all walking different paths and on different points along that path, all lead to meeting our Maker.

To be Christian though one has to believe, in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Otherwise they aren't Christian. And I am not someone that goes around asking people personally... I just try go with the flow and live by faith and be moved by the spirit, when topics concerning the things of God come up. Sometimes online I can come off very brandish, and offensive to people. I don't mean to be, but I must be authentic.

I hope I answered your questions.

Thank you for taking the time.

 

[Wrangler]

@MatthewG, I wanted to wait to consider your questions.

Do you think it's wrong to have a concern for people?

It's wrong NOT to have a concern for people, for image bearers of God, which makes this post below a little disturbing.

Play the heck out of it, buy more. It's not a concern to me what a man does with his own money.

Perhaps you just worded it in a certain way. It seems to me you are rightly focused on justice and right or wrong. There is also better or worse to consider.

My friend buying 15 or 16 guitars is not criminal. That does not make materialism good. Materialism shows a lack of spiritual maturity, a craving that only Jesus can fill. I am concerned that he is not right with God per Jesus at Luke 12:16-21 in not storing up treasures in heaven but in Earth.

I'll give you an example that happened to me at work. There is this woman who moved her client over to his bed so he can lay down but he was moved by another coworker back to the spot they were original set up. This woman expected me to converse with her as though she needs that activity in order to get by. My client relatively likes it to be quiet, and we sit in the next room over from where she had been taken back to.

She said "Matthew are you alright?"
I told her, "Yes, I can stand the quietness, I appreciate your concern but you don't have to ask me."
Her whole demeanor changed afterwards, but was I right or wrong?

No, you were not wrong. Our man-hating society makes it seem like it is wrong for men to have preferences. You and your client have certain preferences and there is nothing wrong with acting on what you prefer.

We have the Freedom of Speech but not the obligation to listen. Sure, we can defer or submit to others, Eph 5:21. This does not mean we are slaves to the whim's of others all the time. 2 Corinthians 3:17. It takes discernment. Matthew 15:3-6. We have divine priorities that I envision like concentric circles expanding outward.

1. God
2. Our own needs (Sabbath; put your mask on a plane before assisting others; take the log out of your own eye so you may clearly see the speck in your neighbors eye).
3. Spouse
4. Parents
5. Children
6. Other relatives
7. Neighbors
8. City
9. State
10. Nation

You (Priority #2) and Your client, who is like your child (Priority #4) must take precedence over your talkative coworker's preferences, who is like your neighbor (Priority #7).

Also, there is the matter of timing. Sure, I'll submit to another - at a time that is more convenient. Many times at work people are willing to help AFTER they attend to other pressing matters in progress. Nothing wrong with that at all.

I hope this helps.

even if does sound like I am being rude, sometimes I am truly not being rude, I am being authentic.

Do you believe that these things have any merit?

Absolutely they have merit. Don't allow yourself to be guilted or shamed out of living a PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE my brother.

 

[MatthewG]

I get being concerned for people, but at the same time people have to be left to their own vices. Pray for all people, is what the bible teaches, perhaps give them a little bit of spiritual food, and in the end to remain humble, and to love God, in faith and love ones neighbor as themselves is highly important.

Thank you for your response, Wrangler.

 

[Wrangler]

people have to be left to their own vices.

Yea, I’m not talking about generic Joe Blow but my friend of over 35 years, my brother in Christ, who I love more than life itself, who I’d sacrifice my life for.

The least I could do is evangelize, impress upon him giving in to coveting does not glorify his Lord and my Lord.

 

[MatthewG]

It’s all a matter of the heart. Material possessions are fine to have. It’s the heart. What does one place before himself God above all other things? Or other all other things above God…