James 4:12 Who are you to judge your neighbor?

[MatthewG]

Oh, another thing that gives us the right to judge is IF we already established a loving relationship with that person. This was a sermon one day.

Suppose @MatthewG, you are my literal neighbor and we've been close friends for years, doing all kinds of things and sharing life together. I begin to notice something is wrong. Out of love, I tell you my concerns. I tell you what I see as wrong (or harmful to you), not to judge but to encourage you to live more joyfully.

I have such a friend for 35 years. I spoke with him about materialism. One example is he told me last month that he bought his 15th or 16th guitar. So, obviously, he has not changed his ways and when he shares with me the euphoria of the next big purchase, he must sense the let down that I don't share it with him. (His wife has expressed similar sentiments).

Im speaking of judgment as though one is God. My mother for a long time told me I need to get off drugs because she knew the drugs were not doing anything good to me. She wasn't judging me as she was God. She was making judgements based on my health and well being, for me to stop doing drugs. She knew I was fine in my relationship with God, but knew I would struggle more in my finances and taking care of myself if I didn't stop.

 

[MatthewG]

I can judging others who show bad character who may harm or cause damage to me - if they are a crack addict who will steal everything a drunk who always wants to fight a mean spirited person a psychopath a womanizer who makes passes at my wife there are all sorts of reasons why I would judge them and with good reason.The bible doesn't force me to be around evil people it tells me to avoid them.I don't stand in judgment like Jesus and can't send them to hell but I certainly don't have to put up with people of bad character only a weak fool would. Its not a cover all statement in James unless you see it that way or wish to become someones victim because you refuse to judge them as no good.You have to see evil when its there.

You kind of get what I am saying. I'm speaking of judgement as though one is God.

There is a verse where Jesus states: Matthew 5:39 But I say, do not resist an evil person! If someone slaps you on the right cheek, offer the other cheek also.

What do you make of that? I get what you are saying, and I believe there are times when the police need to be called. People sometimes live in a land where they are to just point out and judge people. Like condemn them to hell, and or looked as no good period.

What is interesting to me, while people want justice, and justice is served. Still the desire within people is to judge them as though they are like God and they are going to hell. They can't stand them, and want nothing to do with them as though they are some type of disease. You see what I am saying? While a spiritually weak person may not be able to sit with sinful people, a spiritually mature person is able to do so.

Jesus sat and ate with people who needed a savior, and he called not the righteous but those whom are sick.

Matthew 9:11 But when the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with such scum" 12 When Jesus heard this, he said, “Healthy people don’t need a doctor—sick people do.” 13 Then he added, “Now go and learn the meaning of this Scripture: ‘I want you to show mercy, not offer sacrifices.’ For I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners.”

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus shows a kind of shunning acceptable in the church

Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican

Judging matters between brethren and taking it before the unjust rather than before the saints here

1 Cr 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

1 Cr 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

1 Cr 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

1 Cr 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

1 Cr 6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?


Shunned for fornication

1 Cr 5:1 is revisted in 2 Cr as it pertains to the man who had his fathers wife and how it was handled foolishly since it was "commonly reported" and how badly they responded to it.

Because at first Paul writes

1 Cr 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

And this is how their not so wise were handling the situation

1 Cr 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

1 Cr 5:11....I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

1 Cr 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

1 Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Whereas in his next letter Paul would say,

2 Cr 2:6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.

So this punishment was to be inflicted upon such a man by the many of them together (as a church). They should have been grieved about (concerning this man's fornication). and Paul contniues

2 Cr 2:7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.

Their correct response in obedience to Paul had a positive effect on the man

This is what I love about this verse is that Paul is concerned that this mans grief would actually swallow the man up (even as he was made sorry). Its just how Paul expresses his concern for the man who had sinned in this manner.

2 Cr 2:8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.

2 Cr 2:9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.

Its not really about judge not lest ye be judged there, their obedience played a part in the change in this man.

And they should have been grieved over the sin, just as Paul epresses how he is afraid to feel here writing

2Cr 12:21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

Heres another place by Paul here

2 Thes 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

We can judge what someone says,

1 Cr 10:15 I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say.

1 Cr 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

Theres at least a few places where it shows judging, and shunning,

Verily, people have to be discerning, in what they choose to do, when it comes to themselves subjectively. I believe the choice to love people (even if you do have to call the law, on someone whom may need to be arrested.)

Jesus forgave his own murderers. It's only possible in and through Christ, dying to the self, in my opinion. Having mercy, forgiveness.

Matthew 21:31 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they don’t know what they are doing.” And the soldiers gambled for his clothes by throwing dice.

I'm speaking of judgment as though one is God.

 

[Verily]

Im speaking of judgment as though one is God. My mother for a long time told me I need to get off drugs because she knew the drugs were not doing anything good to me. She wasn't judging me as she was God. She was making judgements based on my health and well being, for me to stop doing drugs. She knew I was fine in my relationship with God, but knew I would struggle more in my finances and taking care of myself if I didn't stop.

Drugs are mentioned in scripture, for example, sorceries in Rev 9:21 is pharmakeia

Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, G5331 nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Sorceries/ Pharmakeia G5331

the use or the administering of drugs

poisoning

sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it

metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry

 

[MatthewG]

I dont do drugs anymore. Thank you for the scripture.

 

[Verily]

Verily, people have to be discerning, in what they choose to do, when it comes to themselves subjectively. I believe the choice to love people (even if you do have to call the law, on someone whom may need to be arrested.)

Jesus forgave his own murderers. It's only possible in and through Christ, dying to the self, in my opinion. Having mercy, forgiveness.


I'm speaking of judgment as though one is God.

Ofcourse, the same one who said that, said, this,

Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Sometimes the church has to get involved, for example what Diotrephes was doing to the apostles of Christ

3 John 1:9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.

3John 1:10 Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.

 

[MatthewG]

I disagree. Verily. I don't worship the bible. Thank you for sharing scriptures that is all fine, but could you use your own words rather than resorting to the bible? Because see, I am someone who believes Jesus already came already and got the church, which was the bride of christ in that day in age already. From what I recall Jesus states we should aim to worship God in spirit and in truth. I don't believe there is a perfect church in the world anymore. Why do I need to bring anything to them? I can just go to the police station and make a report.

 

[Verily]

I dont do drugs anymore. Thank you for the scripture.

I know you are now, you wrote

My mother for a long time told me I need to get off drugs because she knew the drugs were not doing anything good to me. She wasn't judging me as she was God. She was making judgements based on my health and well being, for me to stop doing drugs. She knew I was fine in my relationship with God, but knew I would struggle more in my finances and taking care of myself if I didn't stop.

I was just pointing out that God requires repentance in this area as drugs are in the scripture

Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, pharmakeia G5331 nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

That is just not a picture of a fine relationship with God

 

[Verily]

I disagree. Verily. I don't worship the bible. Thank you for sharing scriptures that is all fine, but could you use your own words rather than resorting to the bible? Because see, I am someone who believes Jesus already came already and got the church, which was the bride of christ in that day in age already. From what I recall Jesus states we should aim to worship God in spirit and in truth. I don't believe there is a perfect church in the world anymore. Why do I need to bring anything to them? I can just go to the police station and make a report.

Jesus said, He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory.

Peter tells us

1 Peter 4:1 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

How do you worship words, its a bible discussion forum, I leave it to others to both wrest the scriptures and cast his words aside, but I prefer not to use my words. Why would I even want to do that? I dont really value my own opinion above his.

 

[MatthewG]

I believe people have no right to judge others as though they are God. I don't believe people should also go around correcting people as though they are God either. I only believe in one Authority that is Yahavah himself. I do believe we have the governing authorities also to go to in times of need as well. I don't believe people have authority to throw around scriptures either, because where do they get that authority? That is what happens sometimes as churches. When you go to a church, you are supposedly subjected to what the preacher man says. That is not always the truth of that matter. People should be encouraged to go to Yahavah, and ask him for help and wisdom because what ever a preacher man may say, could be a lie... or an exaggerated truth which actually means one doesn't really stand confident in what they believe.

Verily, just pointing out whats in the bible isn't really having a conversation. Its just pointing out scripture. That type of posting kind of annoys me but I forgive you either way. I know a lot of what the bible states, though sometimes I am forgetful, but anyway. All the best to you.

 

[Verily]

I believe people have no right to judge others as though they are God. I don't believe people should also go around correcting people as though they are God either. I only believe in one Authority that is Yahavah himself. I do believe we have the governing authorities also to go to in times of need as well. I don't believe people have authority to throw around scriptures either, because where do they get that authority? That is what happens sometimes as churches. When you go to a church, you are supposedly subjected to what the preacher man says. That is not always the truth of that matter. People should be encouraged to go to Yahavah, and ask him for help and wisdom because what ever a preacher man may say, could be a lie... or an exaggerated truth which actually means one doesn't really stand confident in what they believe.

Verily, just pointing out whats in the bible isn't really having a conversation. Its just pointing out scripture. That type of posting kind of annoys me but I forgive you either way. All the best to you.

I notice you get annoyed with further scriptures as they might be laid out in some posts. You started this thread with a scripture (which I think you started because you disagreed with something concerning judging on another thread). So I come and looked and noticed you cut off the prior verse, then you seemed to get fustrated with the scriptures again, as if they are getting in the way of your points.

When they help prove one of your points you want to run with you are grateful for them but when they do not fully agree you seem to get annoyed at them (preferring our own words over His). But they are really good for casting down our own vain imaginations.

 

[MatthewG]

I'm not looking to argue with people. I am looking to actually converse.

 

[Verily]

I'm not looking to argue with people. I am looking to actually converse.

I am not arguing, I am posting scrpture on a christian discussion forum in the bible study section.

It started perfect, you posted an out of context post, I come in and point this out adding the one before it and I believe you were the first to throw up walls of scripture to me for whatever purpose.

 

[Verily]

I am not arguing, I am posting scrpture on a christian discussion forum in the bible study section.

It started perfect, you posted an out of context post, I come in and point this out adding the one before it and I believe you were the first to throw up walls of scripture to me for whatever purpose.

Nope, that was your other thread I believe, I looked I believe it was there

 

[Verily]

Nope, that was your other thread I believe, I looked I believe it was there

Okay (note to MatthiasG) it was on the first page on post # 6, when I was trying to look for it, for some reason the first page become invisible to me, and thats where you posted all of James after I added only one verse.

 

[Verily]

Verily, thank you for your contribution to the thread. Do you believe people have the right to judge people as though they are God? That is the main question.

No, I would judge things as though I were myself because I am not Him.

 

[Verily]

I got your PM that is fine.

I will go away.

 

[MatthewG]

Okay, thank you for your answer on post #36, Verily.

 

[MatthewG]

It's hard not to judge. Let alone judge oneself, but it takes a person to really look deep inside of themselves to truly address themselves, especially when faced with the things that Jesus himself states, concerning the heart.

Mark 7:
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Everything starts within the heart. You very own soul. Which is need of the things concerning God. Feed yourself with light, and not so much darkness.

Your Soul Is God-Given (Bible Study)

Hello, Your very soul is God-given. As God had made Adam (mankind) from the dust of the earth he breathed into him, and he became a living soul. Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Wrangler]

I'm not looking to argue with people. I am looking to actually converse.

Great! Is there any truth to the insights shared below?

I notice you get annoyed with further scriptures as they might be laid out in some posts. You started this thread with a scripture (which I think you started because you disagreed with something concerning judging on another thread). So I come and looked and noticed you cut off the prior verse, then you seemed to get fustrated with the scriptures again, as if they are getting in the way of your points.

When they help prove one of your points you want to run with you are grateful for them but when they do not fully agree you seem to get annoyed at them (preferring our own words over His). But they are really good for casting down our own vain imaginations.

I noticed you did not respond to the 5 areas we are to judge that I wrote about. And began to wonder the same things @Verily observed. I’m a little concerned about you brother.

Love you!