James 4:12 Who are you to judge your neighbor?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
16,575
5,512
113
34
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
James 4:12 God alone, who gave the law, is the Judge. He alone has the power to save or to destroy. So what right do you have to judge your neighbor?

What gives us the right?

Do you believe that people have the right to judge other people as though they are God?
 
Last edited:
  • Love
Reactions: Wrangler

Bob Estey

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2021
5,788
3,126
113
72
Sparks, Nevada
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What gives us the right?
From a practical point of view:

There are times judgment is necessary. For instance, we want murderers behind bars.

On the other hand, when we judge, we open ourselves up to judgment. It's best then, perhaps, only to judge when necessary.
 

Verily

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2024
1,638
1,029
113
Sion the heavenly city
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What gives us the right?

Look at the verse prior to it, how it equates speaking evil of another is judging the law

James 4:11-12 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
 

Verily

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2024
1,638
1,029
113
Sion the heavenly city
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
From a practical point of view:

There are times judgment is necessary. For instance, we want murderers behind bars.

On the other hand, when we judge, we open ourselves up to judgment. It's best then, perhaps, only to judge when necessary.

That would pertain to those that are without who we are not to judge, in this context its "brethren" or those within who Paul said we were to judge

But in the prior verse the context is speaking evil of another, and pertains to thr brethren

James 4:11-12 Speak not evil one of another, brethren.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
16,575
5,512
113
34
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, Bob. There are times where we discern. We make judgements that hey perhaps smoking is not good for me, or whatever it may be. In the end though, I believe what is being spoken about by James is when it comes to looking at people and just making judgements about them. So I believe what you are saying is right when it comes down to it. While we may judgements upon ourselves, what is good or bad for us, the same thing happens when we judge other people, there is bondage that holds us back, in getting to know someone, and sometimes that is very difficult.

I have struggles with judging people, and it quenches the Spirit sometimes, but perhaps it's best to judge where judgment is needed. For example, when people conspire to commit evil or crimes, I may need to report that to a supervisor or a local Law enforcement agency. There is a training that is needed for one of my clients I work with, and what is needed to be taught to him is the understanding of his rights.

1. Verbal Abuse
2. Physical Abuse
3. Sexual Abuse
4. Neglect Abuse
5. Emotional Abuse

He never gets it, but it's still something that has to be done with him every day. People have to judge upon these merits whether or not they are being done to them.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
16,575
5,512
113
34
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Verily, let's look at the whole, before this chapter James talks about controlling the tongue, and where wisdom comes from.

Drawing Close to God​

4 What is causing the quarrels and fights among you? Don’t they come from the evil desires at war within you? 2 You want what you don’t have, so you scheme and kill to get it. You are jealous of what others have, but you can’t get it, so you fight and wage war to take it away from them. Yet you don’t have what you want because you don’t ask God for it. 3 And even when you ask, you don’t get it because your motives are all wrong—you want only what will give you pleasure.

4 You adulterers![a] Don’t you realize that friendship with the world makes you an enemy of God? I say it again: If you want to be a friend of the world, you make yourself an enemy of God. 5 Do you think the Scriptures have no meaning? They say that God is passionate that the spirit he has placed within us should be faithful to him.[b] 6 And he gives grace generously. As the Scriptures say,

“God opposes the proud
but gives grace to the humble.”[c]
7 So humble yourselves before God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Come close to God, and God will come close to you. Wash your hands, you sinners; purify your hearts, for your loyalty is divided between God and the world. 9 Let there be tears for what you have done. Let there be sorrow and deep grief. Let there be sadness instead of laughter, and gloom instead of joy. 10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up in honor.

Warning against Judging Others​

11 Don’t speak evil against each other, dear brothers and sisters.[d] If you criticize and judge each other, then you are criticizing and judging God’s law. But your job is to obey the law, not to judge whether it applies to you. 12 God alone, who gave the law, is the Judge. He alone has the power to save or to destroy. So what right do you have to judge your neighbor?

Warning about Self-Confidence​

13 Look here, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we are going to a certain town and will stay there a year. We will do business there and make a profit.” 14 How do you know what your life will be like tomorrow? Your life is like the morning fog—it’s here a little while, then it’s gone. 15 What you ought to say is, “If the Lord wants us to, we will live and do this or that.” 16 Otherwise you are boasting about your own pretentious plans, and all such boasting is evil.

17 Remember, it is sin to know what you ought to do and then not do it.
 

Verily

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2024
1,638
1,029
113
Sion the heavenly city
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Verily, let's look at the whole, before this chapter James talks about controlling the tongue, and where wisdom comes from.

Yes, I read it. You had just posted the one verse without showing the one before which was important to show how he equates speaking evil of ones brother to be connected to the line of thought.

Because it also says,

1 Cr 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
16,575
5,512
113
34
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Verily, Jesus also came into the world to save it, and those who don't believe are already condemned and that people loved the darkness more than the light.

I believe that making judgements is not the problem, but what is the problem.

A Warning against Prejudice​

2 My dear brothers and sisters,[a] how can you claim to have faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ if you favor some people over others?

2 For example, suppose someone comes into your meeting[b] dressed in fancy clothes and expensive jewelry, and another comes in who is poor and dressed in dirty clothes. 3 If you give special attention and a good seat to the rich person, but you say to the poor one, “You can stand over there, or else sit on the floor”—well, 4 doesn’t this discrimination show that your judgments are guided by evil motives?

5 Listen to me, dear brothers and sisters. Hasn’t God chosen the poor in this world to be rich in faith? Aren’t they the ones who will inherit the Kingdom he promised to those who love him? 6 But you dishonor the poor! Isn’t it the rich who oppress you and drag you into court? 7 Aren’t they the ones who slander Jesus Christ, whose noble name[c] you bear?

8 Yes indeed, it is good when you obey the royal law as found in the Scriptures: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[d] 9 But if you favor some people over others, you are committing a sin. You are guilty of breaking the law.

10 For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God’s laws. 11 For the same God who said, “You must not commit adultery,” also said, “You must not murder.”[e] So if you murder someone but do not commit adultery, you have still broken the law.

12 So whatever you say or whatever you do, remember that you will be judged by the law that sets you free. 13 There will be no mercy for those who have not shown mercy to others. But if you have been merciful, God will be merciful when he judges you.

Faith without Good Deeds Is Dead​

14 What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don’t show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone? 15 Suppose you see a brother or sister who has no food or clothing, 16 and you say, “Good-bye and have a good day; stay warm and eat well”—but then you don’t give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do?

17 So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless.

18 Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.” But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.”

19 You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God.[f] Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. 20 How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless?

21 Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see, his faith and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith complete. 23 And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.”[g] He was even called the friend of God.[h] 24 So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone.

25 Rahab the prostitute is another example. She was shown to be right with God by her actions when she hid those messengers and sent them safely away by a different road. 26 Just as the body is dead without breath,[i] so also faith is dead without good works.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
16,575
5,512
113
34
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The book of James is great. Some people dismiss it though, in reality. Such a great book of spiritual benefit to people today.
 

Verily

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2024
1,638
1,029
113
Sion the heavenly city
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Verily, Jesus also came into the world to save it, and those who don't believe are already condemned and that people loved the darkness more than the light.
I agree
I believe that making judgements is not the problem, but what is the problem.

There is what is called being a respector of persons

James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

James 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.


Same is shown in the old concerning the LORD, it says

Duet 1:17 Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.

Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
16,575
5,512
113
34
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hey Verily, thanks for sharing.

There is a lot people can learn from reading the book of James. That is a great thing in my opinion. James writes well, but some consider him unfashionable, and not really looked at as far as his writings. He encourages us to ask God for wisdom but not to be wavering, even asking for things that we may desire in this life, but the things we should ask for which are heavenly, which if we renew our mind in Christ, the more people will be ie: Heavenly minded. That is a helpful focus for any person whom is seeking after Yahavah, and looking for his help while we live in this life. While we are not guilty of not having sin, it's only Yeshua whom makes us right with God and therefore his righteousness and never our own, but the good works of faith are those of love, at least in my opinion. Not trying to being contingent upon others whom you may see in real life. There are people who hold grudges, and then that only leads down to the desires of the flesh which in the end feeds the darkness, rather than the heavenly which is of the light.
 

Verily

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2024
1,638
1,029
113
Sion the heavenly city
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hey Verily, thanks for sharing.

There is a lot people can learn from reading the book of James. That is a great thing in my opinion. James writes well, but some consider him unfashionable, and not really looked at as far as his writings. He encourages us to ask God for wisdom but not to be wavering, even asking for things that we may desire in this life, but the things we should ask for which are heavenly, which if we renew our mind in Christ, the more people will be ie: Heavenly minded. That is a helpful focus for any person whom is seeking after Yahavah, and looking for his help while we live in this life. While we are not guilty of not having sin, it's only Yeshua whom makes us right with God and therefore his righteousness and never our own, but the good works of faith are those of love, at least in my opinion. Not trying to being contingent upon others whom you may see in real life. There are people who hold grudges, and then that only leads down to the desires of the flesh which in the end feeds the darkness, rather than the heavenly which is of the light.
I never heard a believer in Christ say that they thought James was "unfashionable".

Thats a new one haha
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
16,575
5,512
113
34
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Martin Luther was openly critical of James, and he wondered whether the epistle belonged in our Bibles, but he never formally proposed it should be removed. He did, however, suggest it be thrown out of schools: “We should throw the epistle of James out of this school, for it doesn’t amount to much.

Did Martin Luther Really Want James Taken Out of the Bible?


Many people are skeptical of it in itself, as though it has no merit for the spiritual growth of Christian believers.
 

PinSeeker

Well-Known Member
Oct 4, 2021
3,366
845
113
Nashville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I believe that making judgements is not the problem, but what is the problem.
Matthew, when we think of "judging," there are two very different senses regarding this:

1. weighing right against wrong and thus deciding, in and of ~ and for ~ oneself, to sanction and/or approve of that behavior/action or not (and privately or publically), and possibly to

2. placing judgment in the sense of condemnation

Number 2 above is very sinful, and what we are admonished not to do in Scripture, as only God can (and may) rightly do that.

Grace and peace to you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Verily

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
18,228
7,596
113
56
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What gives us the right?
In short, authority gives us the right to judge.

There are only 4 categories of those in authority recognized in the Bible:
  1. Parents
  2. Master (Boss)
  3. Husband
  4. Civil & Pastorial leaders
While we may have opinions of those not under our authority, we need not give voice to it unless asked. In my experience, if people don't ask your opinion, odds are they don't want to hear it. This especially applies to religious doctrines and moral issues.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Verily

Verily

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2024
1,638
1,029
113
Sion the heavenly city
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I judge. For example, if I had a child, and needed a babysitter, and drag queen was in the line up for that job, I would not chose a drag queen to babysit my child, so there would be judgment involved on my part which come about by the examination of the person I am excluding from the care of my child.
 

PGS11

Active Member
Jun 7, 2011
472
206
43
Winnipeg
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I can judging others who show bad character who may harm or cause damage to me - if they are a crack addict who will steal everything a drunk who always wants to fight a mean spirited person a psychopath a womanizer who makes passes at my wife there are all sorts of reasons why I would judge them and with good reason.The bible doesn't force me to be around evil people it tells me to avoid them.I don't stand in judgment like Jesus and can't send them to hell but I certainly don't have to put up with people of bad character only a weak fool would. Its not a cover all statement in James unless you see it that way or wish to become someones victim because you refuse to judge them as no good.You have to see evil when its there.
 

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
18,228
7,596
113
56
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What gives us the right?
Oh, another thing that gives us the right to judge is IF we already established a loving relationship with that person. This was a sermon one day.

Suppose @MatthewG, you are my literal neighbor and we've been close friends for years, doing all kinds of things and sharing life together. I begin to notice something is wrong. Out of love, I tell you my concerns. I tell you what I see as wrong (or harmful to you), not to judge but to encourage you to live more joyfully.

I have such a friend for 35 years. I spoke with him about materialism. One example is he told me last month that he bought his 15th or 16th guitar. So, obviously, he has not changed his ways and when he shares with me the euphoria of the next big purchase, he must sense the let down that I don't share it with him. (His wife has expressed similar sentiments).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Verily

Verily

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2024
1,638
1,029
113
Sion the heavenly city
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jesus shows a kind of shunning acceptable in the church

Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican

Judging matters between brethren and taking it before the unjust rather than before the saints here

1 Cr 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

1 Cr 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

1 Cr 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

1 Cr 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

1 Cr 6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?


Shunned for fornication

1 Cr 5:1 is revisted in 2 Cr as it pertains to the man who had his fathers wife and how it was handled foolishly since it was "commonly reported" and how badly they responded to it.

Because at first Paul writes

1 Cr 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

And this is how their not so wise were handling the situation

1 Cr 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

1 Cr 5:11....I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

1 Cr 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

1 Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Whereas in his next letter Paul would say,

2 Cr 2:6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.

So this punishment was to be inflicted upon such a man by the many of them together (as a church). They should have been grieved about (concerning this man's fornication). and Paul contniues

2 Cr 2:7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.

Their correct response in obedience to Paul had a positive effect on the man

This is what I love about this verse is that Paul is concerned that this mans grief would actually swallow the man up (even as he was made sorry). Its just how Paul expresses his concern for the man who had sinned in this manner.

2 Cr 2:8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.

2 Cr 2:9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.

Its not really about judge not lest ye be judged there, their obedience played a part in the change in this man.

And they should have been grieved over the sin, just as Paul epresses how he is afraid to feel here writing

2Cr 12:21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

Heres another place by Paul here

2 Thes 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

We can judge what someone says,

1 Cr 10:15 I speak as to wise men;
judge ye what I say.

1 Cr 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

Theres at least a few places where it shows judging, and shunning,
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
16,575
5,512
113
34
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There is nothing wrong with judging. The problem is when you become judgmental as like that of an executioner. Judging people as though though one is God. There is nothing wrong with the police integrating people and forming a conclusive judgment, as a murderer or a child predator is deemed to be harmful to society.