It Must Be Absolutely Terrifying To Be A Post-Tribulation Believer

[David in NJ]

I love His Word too much to not be saddened by such things. It's just the way I am.

Words mean things, and that's the way that is.

Much love!

FYI - Since my hip replacement surgery i have been unable to sleep at night and last night was brutal.
WIDE EYED AWAKE to sunrise and still no sleep = brutal


Forgive me Brother if i am intolerant to you today.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Prayed errantly, without understanding what it means.

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

No, we aren't told to pray for a pre-trib rapture in Luke 21:36.


In Matthew 24 he placed gathering of saints (which is the rapture) as happening after the GT has ended so Luke 21:36 is not addressing the rapture.


1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to BEAR it.


One can escape something by being able to bear it. It is not a physical escape but a mental and spiritual escape.


What the verse is telling us is that people will survive the great tribulation by escaping all the deception and Apostasy and will be able to stand before Christ on the day his second coming, the one and only coming which is loud and visible to whole world. That is pure post-trib.


bear it:

G5297
??p?fe´??
hupophero¯
hoop-of-er'-o
From G5259 and G5342; to bear from underneath, that is, (figuratively) to undergo hardship: - bear, endure.
Total KJV occurrences: 3

To escape by bearing it in this context isn't to be raptured away but to be able to bear what is going to come, to undergo hardship. Christians survive the great tribulation are those who escaped in a non-physical sense, being able to bear the tribulations satan brings upon church in that time period. Jesus was also tempted by the devil and Christ escaped those temptations by being spiritually strong and able to undergo the hardship.

Nice stretch.
We all understand trib of past believers and modern believers.
Jesus was referring to the GREAT TRIB.
Paul was referring to everyday walk.
Nice try
But nope....not at all accurate.

 

[David in NJ]

Nice stretch.
We all understand trib of past believers and modern believers.
Jesus was referring to the GREAT TRIB.
Paul was referring to everyday walk.
Nice try
But nope....not at all accurate.

What would be the difference?

 

[ewq1938]

Nice stretch.
We all understand trib of past believers and modern believers.
Jesus was referring to the GREAT TRIB.
Paul was referring to everyday walk.
Nice try
But nope....not at all accurate.

I proved you can escape by being able to bear them, not a physical escape. The rapture is not before the GT. There is only Apostasy, which pretribbers want to committ because they redefine what it means, or there is remaining and being able to bear the things that happen as a non-physical way to escape just like how Jesus escaped from the devil's temptations.

 

[The Light]

I'm Post-trib; always have been. Pre-trib. is a new doctrine by those who confuse the Great Tribulation with the Wrath of God.

Hi 1stCenturyLady,

You have made an excellent point. The standard pretrib model is incorrect because they do not understand that the tribulation is not the wrath of God.

I have a question for you, please. Does the fact that the pretrib model does not understand that the tribulation is not the wrath of God prove that there is not a pretribulation rapture?

 

[The Light]

Believe me I wish pre-trib was real, but its not.

Oh but it is real. Pretrib as it is taught is incorrect but that doesn't mean there won't be a pretribulation rapture.

Here are two questions I would like you to answer:
1. 1 Thes. 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

I know you asked another to answer but you seem fully capable of answering more than one.

Why didn't those who "are alive and remain" go up with those 7 years earlier in the rapture?

Most of those that believe in a pretrib rapture would answer you something like this. The alive that remain go up at the same time as dead in Christ, its just that the dead Christ rise first and then alive are caught up together with them in the clouds. They would see it as one rapture.

Let me say that I am impressed that you understand that the alive remain on earth for a time after the dead in Christ rise and are raptured. Here's what really happens.

The dead in Christ rise first as the Word says. This is the barley harvest, a Passover harvest feast. These go to heaven as they are united with their souls. Then the Lord will return for the wheat harvest. These are the alive that remain. He does not come 7 years later, He comes in the next season. The barley harvest is a spring harvest and the wheat harvest is a summer harvest. Both of these harvests are the grain harvest of the Church. The Feast of Pentecost is when the wave offering is presented to the Lord. However, the true Pentecost is actually 50 days later on the Feast of New Wine which is the celebration of the wheat harvest. This is the time that the Holy Spirit came to the Church. Remember Peter telling people that those speaking in tongues were not drunk on new wine. Anyway the Feast of New Wine is actually a 7 day feast that culminates on Tu B'Av. If you look that up you will find it is about the taking of brides which is of interest. Here is the barley harvest, rapture in the Old Testament.

Song of Solomon
8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

9 My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.

10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.

11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;

12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;

Here is the wheat harvest in the Old Testament at the time of New Wine.

Song of Solomon
13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.

14 O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.

That also goes for those who sleep. I thought pre-tribbers believed the dead in Christ go in the Rapture? And the "alive and remain" are not new Christians because of the strong delusion on Gentiles. The only newly saved are Jews.

Pretrib thinks the dead in Christ rise first and then after that the alive are caught up, bang, bang.

There will be delusion on those that have rejected God. These are obviously non believers. They will believe that the aliens have come. There are also foolish virgins on earth, that were not watching and ready for the coming of the Lord. He says watch and pray that we are worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass in the tribulation.

And you are correct that there are newly saved Jews.

2. Revelation 12: 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

1 John 3:23-24
23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

John wrote Revelation too. John in Revelation is not talking about the Ten Commandments. He is talking about the commandments of the Church. The Church is not a Gentile Church as some believe in the Replacement theory. The first Christians were Jews. Gentiles were grafted in as wild olive branches. But the natural Church are Jews. Gentile Christians are the "rest of her offspring."

The rest of her offspring I believe are not Gentiles but are of the 12 tribes across the earth. When the dragon cannot get to the woman, Israel as she is in her place of protection, he goes after the Jews (12 tribes) all over the world.

The Great Tribulation is the time for all Israel to now come into the Church. There are not two churches.

I am actually amazed at your level of understanding. As you say, the Great Tribulation is the time for all Israel to come into the Body of Christ. The tribulation is the time of Jacobs trouble.

Since you understand that tribulation is not the wrath of God and you say you are post trib to me that means you understand that there is a harvest at the 6th seal. Is this correct?

And if you understand that the great tribulation is about Israel you should understand that the harvest at the 6th seal is about Israel. The reason there are 144,000 first fruits is because the grain harvest of the Church is over and the 144,000 are the firstfruits of the next harvest.

Conclusion. There is a pretrib rapture of the Church and then God turns His attention to Israel. There is a post trib rapture of Israel. There are two raptures, one pretrib and one post trib. Jacob had two brides, Leah and the chosen bride Rachel.

 

[The Light]

Ok, here's one: If the Body Of Christ ( "One New man" Eph 2:15 ), is the 'bride', then
who is the [ second? ] "Bride, The Lamb's wife" in Revelation 19:7, 21:2, 9? God 'Marries' Twice?

Just wondering...

The second bride is the seed of the woman, Israel, the 12 tribes across the earth. Jacob had two brides, Leah and the Chosen bride Rachel.

 

[David in NJ]

Hi 1stCenturyLady,

You have made an excellent point. The standard pretrib model is incorrect because they do not understand that the tribulation is not the wrath of God.

I have a question for you, please. Does the fact that the pretrib model does not understand that the tribulation is not the wrath of God prove that there is not a pretribulation rapture?

What proves 'pre-fib rapture' as FALSE are the words of the LORD(Matt ch24), the Apostles John & Paul, the OT Prophets.

 

[The Light]

What proves 'pre-fib rapture' as FALSE are the words of the LORD(Matt ch24), the Apostles John & Paul, the OT Prophets.

Yeah. Pray that we are worthy to escape all the things that will come to pass and stand before the Son of Man.

Or unto to them who look for Him will He appear a second time unto salvation.

Or watch as I am coming in an hour you think not.

Or if therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

 

[marks]

Conclusion. There is a pretrib rapture of the Church and then God turns His attention to Israel. There is a post trib rapture of Israel. There are two raptures, one pretrib and one post trib.

I agree with your conclusion here. I'd point out that the Biblical terminology would be the pre-trib rapture, and the post-trib gathering, or, regathering. Those are the words I see being used.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Luke 21:36 KJV
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Jesus didn't speak this to the church, which would have been through Paul, the apostle to the gentiles. Jesus spoke this to Israel, to whom He had been sent.

This is not a "rapture" passage, it regards escape, that is, to flee the things that will come to pass.

There is a manuscript variant here, some read, "and pray always, that you may have strength to escape all these things that shall come to pass".

In whichever way you read this passage, this "escape", "to flee", is an active voice verb, which means that the one referenced is doing the action.

In the rapture, those "in Christ" who are being "caught up", this is the passive voice, they are being acted up, not doing the acting. Grammatically, these cannot be the same. If they were, these verb tenses would agree.

Being caught up in the rapture is a matter of being "in Christ". Fleeing the things to come is a matter of being found worthy, or of having sufficient strength, again, depending on your manuscript.

The one enduring to the end shall be saved. Those in Judea flee to the wilderness! Pray that your flight not be on the Sabbath! Pray that you have the strength!

Much love!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Ok, here's one: If the Body Of Christ ( "One New man" Eph 2:15 ), is the 'bride', then
who is the [ second? ] "Bride, The Lamb's wife" in Revelation 19:7, 21:2, 9? God 'Marries' Twice?

Just wondering...

The second bride is the seed of the woman, Israel, the 12 tribes across the earth. Jacob had two brides, Leah and the Chosen bride Rachel.

Wait, Christ is a homosexual, "marrying a man bride," and also a polygamist, "marrying a
second bride"?

I don't see that in God's Word Of Truth.

 

[The Light]

Wait, Christ is a homosexual, "marrying a man bride," and also a polygamist, "marrying a
second bride"?

I don't see that in God's Word Of Truth.

Lol. Sadly that made me laugh. You better study a lot more to show thyself approved.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I'm a believer in the imminent Pre-Millennial, Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church. That is My Blessed Hope. One day Soon, in the Very Near Future, Jesus Christ will be told by God the Father to go and get His Bride, His Church, for the time has come for the wedding feast of the Lamb. The Rapture of the Church is the fulfillment of the ancient Galilean Wedding ritual. I look forward to the Coming Of Jesus Christ, I wish it would happen now! I can't wait to get past this phase of earth's existence and to have Jesus Christ, our Messiah King and God ruling the earth and Universe.

We are at the end of the age. I'm amazed we're still here. I never thought I'd get to see the final pieces to hundreds of prophecies fall into place like we are witnessing right now! A headline a few days ago said the ocean temperature in Florida broke the world record of 101 degrees. I couldn't help but smile. I feel bad about the horror that is about to come on the earth but I know it can't be avoided. Worrying about global warming is pointless. The earth is about to be scorched. The planet will be literally dying when Jesus Christ returns to the earth to establish His Millennial reign at the end of the 70th week of Daniel.

If you read "The Writing On The Wall" you know that we are very near the time when all the old testament prophecies will be literally fulfilled. The battle of Gog and Magag is on the horizon.

How can Post-Tribulation believers sleep at night. I would be terrified of the signs we see if I believed I would have to endure what is coming on the world.
I would be terrified by the inevitable one world currency and the 666 mark of the beast system which is being developed as I speak.

Here is a question:

Can you honestly say you want Jesus Christ to end the waiting and to fulfill all the prophecies right now, in your lifetime. Do you look forward to the Book of Revelation being fulfilled?

If God gave you a button that would trigger the Rapture, Would you push it? I Would! I say Come Lord Jesus Come!"

Would i push the button, No ! That is up to God alone, or us one may say that brings that on ? for if you were of Christ Jesus you are Saved, your Soul is Saved ! you will most likely die before the second coming anyway.
The thing is that people will reap what they have sown in fact and that brings on the second coming, because they are abiding in Satan in fact.
No worthy Christian wants people to suffer under Satan in fact, but only to call them out from such delusions and deceptions.

We are all in good hands under Christ in fact, but with the second coming that means the falling away first in fact, because just like in the days of the Jews they failed every time they turned their back on God ! so we will as well ! that's how it works in fact.
The Jews in the end failed because they were lead astray and only the worthy Jews who followed Moses had faith in Jesus and when Jesus went to Heaven then them worthy Jews of faith in Moses became the first Christians in fact !

Any work that is not in Christ Jesus is not worthy of him ? They who are not worthy are of Satan or under the power of Satan. So we have Demonic people and them who are lead or slaves to Sin under the power of Satanist, for they are weaklings under the power of delusions and deceptions. But after the second coming the delusions and deceptions will be exposed for what they truly were in fact and the people who survive will have nothing but one option in fact sink or swim ! no one has anything at all to boast about because all such has been burnt up in fact. It will be no holiday walk in the park for them who survive the days before or after But Christ Jesus will be number one in the hearts and minds of all in the days after. and the lesson will be learnt full on and documented, so that the people are never lead astray like that again. The cancer will be pruned directly when detected before it infects the population.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Wait, Christ is a homosexual, "marrying a man bride," and also a polygamist, "marrying a
second bride"?

I don't see that in God's Word Of Truth.

Jacob wanted to marry Rachel but was tricked by her dad and he made Jacob marry the elder sister Leah, claiming tradition.
So the 2 Sons to Rachel were his real Sons ? the rest were only Sons of Leah and the 2 maids.

 

[rebuilder 454]

FYI - Since my hip replacement surgery i have been unable to sleep at night and last night was brutal.
WIDE EYED AWAKE to sunrise and still no sleep = brutal


Forgive me Brother if i am intolerant to you today.

you need hyaluronic acid.
Game changer.

I proved you can escape by being able to bear them, not a physical escape. The rapture is not before the GT. There is only Apostasy, which pretribbers want to committ because they redefine what it means, or there is remaining and being able to bear the things that happen as a non-physical way to escape just like how Jesus escaped from the devil's temptations.

Being ready means the oil lamp is full.
Even the foolish virgins had enough sense to watch and wait. Their failure was the "ready" part. You are getting ready for the AC.
Wrong on several fronts.

 

[David in NJ]

Yeah. Pray that we are worthy to escape all the things that will come to pass and stand before the Son of Man.

Or unto to them who look for Him will He appear a second time unto salvation.

Or watch as I am coming in an hour you think not.

Or if therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Who said not to watch?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Yeah. Pray that we are worthy to escape all the things that will come to pass and stand before the Son of Man.

Or unto to them who look for Him will He appear a second time unto salvation.

Or watch as I am coming in an hour you think not.

Or if therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

There is also one in revelation.
Revelation 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

 

[David in NJ]

you need hyaluronic acid.
Game changer.

Being ready means the oil lamp is full.
Even the foolish virgins had enough sense to watch and wait. Their failure was the "ready" part. You are getting ready for the AC.
Wrong on several fronts.

Thank you for the FYI on hyaluronic acid.

Well, i was Baptized in the Holy Spirit many years ago and i never stop filling up on the Living Word.

The true test of knowing your lamp is filled is knowing the LORD and His words = without adding or taking away from them.

Now if you could be so kind as to pointing out exactly where God said: "I will rapture my Bride before the coming of the wicked one."

Peace and thank you Brother

 

[David in NJ]

There is also one in revelation.
Revelation 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

And the KEY here is that we keep His word in patient waiting for His Coming and we love one another as the Philadelphia Brethren did.