It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[rebuilder 454]

@Keraz

He is mocking you.
Since their Doctrine is weak, and debate methods bizarre , they revert to mocking.

What is their counter point?
Noah and family did not rise into the heavens above the judgment below?
Lot was not gathered and escaped?
The baby Jesus did not escape to another location? ???
Cue panic, and fits that God would remove his people.
The audacity of God to remove his people.

Pretrib rapture doctrine has no such twisting of God's testimony.
I just shake my head at the silly postrib rapture theory.
It reminds me of Kamala Kabama supporters.
They just plod forward without the tiniest bit of research

 

[rebuilder 454]

The man of God that follows closely and is devoted and is a worker in the Kingdom suffers much tribulation. The enemy is there to stop him through people and trials and circumstances and most anyway he can. We can see all this in the Apostle Paul.
Jesus even told him "I will show you what great things you must suffer for my namesake."
But to think that that somehow is the basis for theology it is pretty lame.
Because it's man's mind trying to figure God out.
Jesus talked about a tribulation that was so great that there will never be another one like it ,and there never was one before it that compares to how great this tribulation is.
It's so plain in the Seven Seals judgments that are upon men and upon the planet. There's so many people in history that were martyred, and so many people that were tortured , and so many people that were persecuted by the devil, and persecuted by evil men, and yet that tribulation they went through cannot be compared to the tribulation that's coming in the Great tribulation.
Jesus himself said ,"pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things that are about to come upon the Earth and stand before the son of man".
Jesus also said, "because you have kept the word of my testimony I will also keep you from The Trial that's about to come upon the entire world".
I don't know how people justify the trials that we go through in this life, so as to actually serve as a foundation and basis of Doctrine to reframe the Great Tribulation into the same thing.

 

[WPM]

So we agree…there is a Rising up to the Clouds of the Righteous / Faithful….and it is called a Rapture.
(You adding “rising up to Heaven” is irrelevant.)

Why was “faithful/ righteous” Noah risen UP above the EARTH…AND NOT LEFT ON THE EARTH and KEPT FROM DROWNING...during the FIRST event of Tribulation and Wrath Sent down from Heaven…..?

as YOU propose for the SECOND and LAST event of Tribulation and Wrath Sent down from Heaven…THAT the Faithful / Righteous WILL BE ON the Earth…and KEPT from the destruction?

It is called the catching away. Rapture is a Pretrib invention. It is not in the original Greek.

 

[WPM]

I guess some people should pray for more trials since they are so attached to them.

Again, no Scripture. Just opinions.

 

[WPM]

The man of God that follows closely and is devoted and is a worker in the Kingdom suffers much tribulation. The enemy is there to stop him through people and trials and circumstances and most anyway he can. We can see all this in the Apostle Paul.
Jesus even told him "I will show you what great things you must suffer for my namesake."
But to think that that somehow is the basis for theology it is pretty lame.
Because it's man's mind trying to figure God out.
Jesus talked about a tribulation that was so great that there will never be another one like it ,and there never was one before it that compares to how great this tribulation is.
It's so plain in the Seven Seals judgments that are upon men and upon the planet. There's so many people in history that were martyred, and so many people that were tortured , and so many people that were persecuted by the devil, and persecuted by evil men, and yet that tribulation they went through cannot be compared to the tribulation that's coming in the Great tribulation.
Jesus himself said ,"pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things that are about to come upon the Earth and stand before the son of man".
Jesus also said, "because you have kept the word of my testimony I will also keep you from The Trial that's about to come upon the entire world".
I don't know how people justify the trials that we go through in this life, so as to actually serve as a foundation and basis of Doctrine to reframe the Great Tribulation into the same thing.

The wrath of God brings immediate and total destruction to the wicked, just like in Noah's day and in Sodom. You cannot deal with that because it totally exposes your doctrine.

 

[Keraz]

I do not subscribe to the pretentious and impossible theory, which says that God’s people are going to be ‘raptured’ and removed from the earth before this time of trial comes. The whole message of salvation, of discipleship, and coming into the maturity of a Christian is a preparation for a time of testing. 1 Peter 4:12

1 Corinthians 10:13 So far you have faced no trial beyond human endurance. God will not test you beyond your powers, but when the test comes he will enable you to endure under it.

Luke 21:34-36 Be on your guard, keep alert, so that the great Day does not catch you unready, for that Day will come on everyone the whole world over. Pray for the strength to pass safely through all that is coming and then to stand in His presence.

Acts 14:22....that to enter the Kingdom of God, we must undergo many hardships.

 

[WPM]

I do not subscribe to the pretentious and impossible theory, which says that God’s people are going to be ‘raptured’ and removed from the earth before this time of trial comes. The whole message of salvation, of discipleship, and coming into the maturity of a Christian is a preparation for a time of testing. 1 Peter 4:12

1 Corinthians 10:13 So far you have faced no trial beyond human endurance. God will not test you beyond your powers, but when the test comes he will enable you to endure under it.

Luke 21:34-36 Be on your guard, keep alert, so that the great Day does not catch you unready, for that Day will come on everyone the whole world over. Pray for the strength to pass safely through all that is coming and then to stand in His presence.

Acts 14:22....that to enter the Kingdom of God, we must undergo many hardships.

Observe;: they have nothing to refute apart from avoidance and insults. They have zero proof-texts.

 

[Taken]

It is called the catching away. Rapture is a Pretrib invention. It is not in the original Greek.

Rapture is Not a “pre-trib invention”.

Like with ALL Scriptural Knowledge Revealed; it is FOR men to Discover the Knowledge….AND Discover HOW TO “understand the Knowledge According to Gods understanding”…

Since Jesus’ arrival on Earth and His Ministry…..Israelites were Learning about their Messiah….
AND Gentiles were Learning about the Jewish God AND the Jewish Messiah…

Every generation since Jesus’ arrival have their own Lifetime to make Discoveries ABOUT the Lord God…

Some actually read, study, learn ABOUT Him, Before Getting to KNOW Him.
Others kinda sort of sacrifice an hour a week to have another tell them what they have decided others should believe…and that’s that…FEW will (test), read, study to see if that is true.

While ALL Scripture is TRUE…not ALL Scripture applies to ALL men. By Measure it depends on a mans Choices, Commitments, OR LACK thereof.

A faithful OT Israelite, is different than a faithful NT Israelite, is different than the Apostles who were tasked with adding members to Christ’s Church, and as well, Messianic Jews are different than Godly faithful Jews, and different than Christians and Muslims….Yet while each…acknowledge JESUS…but not all in the same capacity.

Those “IN” Christ are Unique from ALL other human men who are or have ever been upon the face of this earth….

Their SALVATION is Unique, their DELIVERANCE is Unique, their REDEMPTION is Unique” ALL MADE POSSIBLE by, through, of the Offering OF the Lord God Almighty….
AND the EXPRESS individual humans WHO Elected to take, receive, possess, ONCE and FOREVER….His Offering.

The “Catching Up”…is an exclusive application that APPLIES TO ONLY those “IN” Christ.
The Description of “CATCHING UP”…in whatever Language…
Harpazo…Greek
Raptura….Latin
Rapture….English

It all means the same thing and APPLIES exclusively to members of Christ’s Church.
It has been preached and available to Christ’s Church members for 2,000+ years…

And Per Individual mens Choices they shall be Included or Excluded…

Just as Per Individual mens Choices some shall be Included or Excluded to enjoy a stint in hell.

You WANT to BE ON EARTH during the Tribulations and wrath of God….so be it…
God IS JUST and very pleasing to accommodate men in what is their Hearts desire.

Me…I look forward to Meeting my Lord IN the Air, Face to Face…while God is sending tribulations and wrath from heaven upon the earth and its inhabitants.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

He is mocking you.

I know…but I do not continue my standing for his benefit…rather for any others listening.

Since their Doctrine is weak, and debate methods bizarre , they revert to mocking.

Yep…some do…others can keep their civility.

What is their counter point?

Attempting to use Scriptures that do not apply…or scoffing…or divert off topic.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[WPM]

Rapture is Not a “pre-trib invention”.

Like with ALL Scriptural Knowledge Revealed; it is FOR men to Discover the Knowledge….AND Discover HOW TO “understand the Knowledge According to Gods understanding”…

Since Jesus’ arrival on Earth and His Ministry…..Israelites were Learning about their Messiah….
AND Gentiles were Learning about the Jewish God AND the Jewish Messiah…

Every generation since Jesus’ arrival have their own Lifetime to make Discoveries ABOUT the Lord God…

Some actually read, study, learn ABOUT Him, Before Getting to KNOW Him.
Others kinda sort of sacrifice an hour a week to have another tell them what they have decided others should believe…and that’s that…FEW will (test), read, study to see if that is true.

While ALL Scripture is TRUE…not ALL Scripture applies to ALL men. By Measure it depends on a mans Choices, Commitments, OR LACK thereof.

A faithful OT Israelite, is different than a faithful NT Israelite, is different than the Apostles who were tasked with adding members to Christ’s Church, and as well, Messianic Jews are different than Godly faithful Jews, and different than Christians and Muslims….Yet while each…acknowledge JESUS…but not all in the same capacity.

Those “IN” Christ are Unique from ALL other human men who are or have ever been upon the face of this earth….

Their SALVATION is Unique, their DELIVERANCE is Unique, their REDEMPTION is Unique” ALL MADE POSSIBLE by, through, of the Offering OF the Lord God Almighty….
AND the EXPRESS individual humans WHO Elected to take, receive, possess, ONCE and FOREVER….His Offering.

The “Catching Up”…is an exclusive application that APPLIES TO ONLY those “IN” Christ.
The Description of “CATCHING UP”…in whatever Language…
Harpazo…Greek
Raptura….Latin
Rapture….English

It all means the same thing and APPLIES exclusively to members of Christ’s Church.
It has been preached and available to Christ’s Church members for 2,000+ years…

And Per Individual mens Choices they shall be Included or Excluded…

Just as Per Individual mens Choices some shall be Included or Excluded to enjoy a stint in hell.

You WANT to BE ON EARTH during the Tribulations and wrath of God….so be it…
God IS JUST and very pleasing to accommodate men in what is their Hearts desire.

Me…I look forward to Meeting my Lord IN the Air, Face to Face…while God is sending tribulations and wrath from heaven upon the earth and its inhabitants.

Glory to God,
Taken

The Bible was not written originally in Latin. It was written in Hebrew and Greek. And, no, the English interpretation of harpazo was/is "caught up."

Also, the Bible does not teach your error.

 

[Taken]

The Bible was not written originally in Latin. It was written in Hebrew and Greek. And, no, the English interpretation of harpazo was/is "caught up."

Also, the Bible does not teach your error.

I am not accountable for your stubbornness or ignorance or errors.


Saul/Paul accepted the task of teaching the jews, kings and gentiles….the Gospel of Jesus Christ….

I have no wonderment, doubt or confusion that the clouds are above the earth, Harpazo, Rapturo, Rapture, catching up …. Summoned and rising up TO the clouds to MEET the Lord….as some mystery…It is plainly written and only requires one to trust and believe the scriptures…or not.

If you did not read…who it applies to…that also was plainly written…IN Christ.

If you do not know WHO those “IN” Christ “specifically ARE…and why they ARE’…that would be your dilemma…not mine.

If you do not know the WHOLE WORLD was appointed to suffer tribulations ON earth…
Duh…evil spirits, wicked men…open eyes!!

If you do not know God does not appoint His tribulations and His wrath sent down from Heaven upon the whole earth and it’s inhabitants (save the 144,000 sealed with Gods MARK…and Christ’s Church.)

And Gods PLAN to LIFT UP Christ’s Church above the Earth up to the Clouds……SAME AS HE DID for Noah and his family…
That is your dilemma, not mine.

The truth is plainly written…and you can plainly reject it…and we can both trust God shall give you your hearts desire….
(Which you revealing is to BE ON THE EARTH during Gods sent tribulations and wrath.)

Very strange….but then MANY people are WARNED of impending disasters and dangers and neither prepare or escape or otherWISE heed the warnings…

Freewill is great… Hope to enjoy your choices.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[WPM]

I am not accountable for your stubbornness or ignorance or errors.


Saul/Paul accepted the task of teaching the jews, kings and gentiles….the Gospel of Jesus Christ….

I have no wonderment, doubt or confusion that the clouds are above the earth, Harpazo, Rapturo, Rapture, catching up …. Summoned and rising up TO the clouds to MEET the Lord….as some mystery…It is plainly written and only requires one to trust and believe the scriptures…or not.

If you did not read…who it applies to…that also was plainly written…IN Christ.

If you do not know WHO those “IN” Christ “specifically ARE…and why they ARE’…that would be your dilemma…not mine.

If you do not know the WHOLE WORLD was appointed to suffer tribulations ON earth…
Duh…evil spirits, wicked men…open eyes!!

If you do not know God does not appoint His tribulations and His wrath sent down from Heaven upon the whole earth and it’s inhabitants (save the 144,000 sealed with Gods MARK…and Christ’s Church.)

And Gods PLAN to LIFT UP Christ’s Church above the Earth up to the Clouds……SAME AS HE DID for Noah and his family…
That is your dilemma, not mine.

The truth is plainly written…and you can plainly reject it…and we can both trust God shall give you your hearts desire….
(Which you revealing is to BE ON THE EARTH during Gods sent tribulations and wrath.)

Very strange….but then MANY people are WARNED of impending disasters and dangers and neither prepare or escape or otherWISE heed the warnings…

Freewill is great… Hope to enjoy your choices.

Glory to God,
Taken

Keep your warnings. Back to you. I refuse your nonsense.

 

[Taken]

Also, the Bible does not teach your error.

Not true…

IN SCRIPTURE…
WHO and WHERE and WHY…

SANCTIFIED IN CHRIST….
NOT APPOINTED TO WRATH….
CAUGHT UP TO THE CLOUDS…
DELIVERED FROM THE WRATH TO COME….

You have been given the Scriptures….but no one will read them for you, or understand them for you…

You have not once given ONE Scripture that speaks to those IN Christ, Christ’s Church, Being ON Earth during the tribulations and wrath sent down from heaven upon the whole earth…or WHY they would be ON EARTH.

 

[Taken]

Keep your warnings. Back to you. I refuse your nonsense.

SENSE is what the MIND does to via LOGICAL weighing between this and that…

The RAPTURE OF Christ’s Church is a Spiritual Event…for BEINGS IN the Spirit…and that is NOT “supposed” to make logical MIND-ful SENSE…!!

Glad we cleared that up…
You expect Spiritual things to make sense to your Carnal MIND…and it CAN NOT!

So…clearly the error is yours.

 

[WPM]

SENSE is what the MIND does to via LOGICAL weighing between this and that…

The RAPTURE OF Christ’s Church is a Spiritual Event…for BEINGS IN the Spirit…and that is NOT “supposed” to make logical MIND-ful SENSE…!!

Glad we cleared that up…
You expect Spiritual things to make sense to your Carnal MIND…and it CAN NOT!

So…clearly the error is yours.

You do not have one single passage to prove your doctrine Where is it? All I see in your posts is your own opinions and loads of noise.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Again, no Scripture. Just opinions.

Again, no Scripture. Just opinions

 

[rebuilder 454]

You do not have one single passage to prove your doctrine Where is it? All I see in your posts is your own opinions and loads of noise.

You do not have one single passage to prove your doctrine Where is it? All I see in your posts is your own opinions and loads of noise.
Now I know why you and your buddies do that.
Just make nothingburger list of brainless non contributing replies and copy paste to troll what you failed in meaningful replies.

 

[WPM]

You do not have one single passage to prove your doctrine Where is it? All I see in your posts is your own opinions and loads of noise.
Now I know why you and your buddies do that.
Just make nothingburger list of brainless non contributing replies and copy paste to troll what you failed in meaningful replies.

I am confident the reader can see who is presenting biblical truth and who is not. That is the only reason I am engaging with you.

 

[WPM]

in my studies. Post-trib is the most indefensible of all the pre-millenial views.

That settles it then, because you said it. Not! It is so amazing how brazen certain people are in promoting a doctrine that enjoys zero proof texts in Scripture. That is called deception!

 

[WPM]

You do not have one single passage to prove your doctrine Where is it? All I see in your posts is your own opinions and loads of noise.
Now I know why you and your buddies do that.
Just make nothingburger list of brainless non contributing replies and copy paste to troll what you failed in meaningful replies.

I refer you to the Op that exposes your error. That is why you duck around it and act so immature.