It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[Taken]

@WPM
@Keraz

According to you…What are the people “IN” Christ going to be DOING ON EARTH during the last days Tribulations and wrath of the Lamb, of the Devil and of God?

 

[Keraz]

Yes…the Lord KEEPS His CHURCH Safe FROM the wrath and tribulations sent down from Heaven upon the whole Earth….

Too bad you REJECT Gods Own word of HOW the Lord Keeps His CHURCH Safe during the wrath and tribulations sent down from Heaven.

Astounding! I post 30 Bible Veres that tell how the Lord will protect His people and you ask "how'?

What are you going to be doing….?
How come you never speak of that ^ ?

I will be doing what the Lord has tasked me to do, to further His Kingdom on earth and promote the Prophetic Word;
The real question is: What will you do in heaven?
I see the rapture to heaven as a cop out, an escape from responsibilities and a direct rejection of the Lords promises to protect those who call upon His Name, when disaster strikes.

 

[Taken]

Astounding! I post 30 Bible Veres that tell how the Lord will protect His people and you ask "how'?

Posting verses that have nothing to do with Gods end of days, Tribulations and wrath are irrelevant.

I will be doing what the Lord has tasked me to do, to further His Kingdom on earth and promote the Prophetic Word;

So you do not know…what you will be doing ON earth during tribulations and wrath sent down from heaven….such cause is;
Probably because the Scripture reveals WHAT ….
Non-commited believers will be doing…
AND WHAT ….
The Israelites will be doing…
AND WHAT ….
The Anti-Christs will be doing…
AND WHAT …
The Anti-godly will be doing…
AND WHAT ….
The 144,000 Reserved Israelites will be doing
AND WHAT …
Any other unsaved Jews or Gentiles will be doing….
AND…
There IS ZERO Scripture revealing what Christi’s Church will be doing ON Earth during the last days Tribulations and Wrath sent down from Heaven…..

There is ZERO Scripture revealing Christ’s Church will be Preaching!

VERY ODD, you believe men IN CHRIST, shall be ON the Earth while Tribulations and Wrath are being sent down from Heaven upon the whole earth…..

Why DIDN’T God LEAVE Noah and his family upon the earth and keep them from drowning?

WHY DID God raise Noah UP above the earth, while God was DESTROYING the earth?

Your theory is NOT revealed in scripture.

The real question is: What will you do in heaven?

Well, I mentioned a quote from Scripture…saying the Raptured would be IN the Clouds, meeting the Lord in the air.

Do you believe the clouds and air Is Heaven?

I see the rapture to heaven as a cop out, an escape from responsibilities and a direct rejection of the Lords promises to protect those who call upon His Name, when disaster strikes.

The Rapture absolutely IS an ESCAPE, a DELIVERANCE FROM tribulations and wrath SEND down from Heaven upon the whole Earth with the express INTENT to DESTROY, KILL, wipe out Unrighteousness….ON the earth and its inhabitants…

Even Jesus Himself as WISE enough to ESCAPE from street crowds who tried to Stone him…!!
By your view….Jesus chose “a cop out”….


John 8:
[59] Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

 

[Keraz]

Well, I mentioned a quote from Scripture…saying the Raptured would be IN the Clouds, meeting the Lord in the air.

Do you believe the clouds and air Is Heaven?

So: when Jesus Returns, the faithful peoples will rise up to meet Him in the atmospheric clouds. Which is not heaven.
As Matthew 24:31 makes clear; that gathering is a transportation to where Jesus will be - in Jerusalem.

The 'rapture to heaven' theory is a false teaching and will never happen. After the Millennium, God and heaven come to the earth. Rev 21:1-7

 

[Taken]

So: when Jesus Returns, the faithful peoples will rise up to meet Him in the atmospheric clouds. Which is not heaven.
As Matthew 24:31 makes clear; that gathering is a transportation to where Jesus will be - in Jerusalem.

The 'rapture to heaven' theory is a false teaching and will never happen. After the Millennium, God and heaven come to the earth. Rev 21:1-7

You are the one calling the RAPTURE…
“The rapture to heaven”….

While a person believing in the rapture and quoting scripture is speaking of a rising up to the clouds in the air above the earth.

Why are you changing what others say and then disagreeing with what YOU have claimed for an other?

 

[Taken]

So: when Jesus Returns, the faithful peoples will rise up to meet Him in the atmospheric clouds. Which is not heaven.
As Matthew 24:31 makes clear; that gathering is a transportation to where Jesus will be - in Jerusalem.

After the Millennium, God and heaven come to the earth. Rev 21:1-7

You contradict yourself…

The 'rapture to heaven' theory is a false teaching and will never happen

when Jesus Returns, the faithful peoples will rise up to meet Him in the atmospheric clouds.

 

[Taken]

So: when Jesus Returns, the faithful peoples will rise up to meet Him in the atmospheric clouds. Which is not heaven.
As Matthew 24:31 makes clear; that gathering is a transportation to where Jesus will be - in Jerusalem.

The 'rapture to heaven' theory is a false teaching and will never happen. After the Millennium, God and heaven come to the earth. Rev 21:1-7

What is your description and understanding OF Heaven……HEAVEN”S” ?


A Singular PLACE?
A Multi-faceted PLACE?
Where IS Heaven?
Where ARE the HeavenS ?
Where does Heaven Begin and End?

 

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So: when Jesus Returns, the faithful peoples will rise up to meet Him in the atmospheric clouds.

The Word of God…was IN God IN Heaven…
(Isa 55:11)

The Word of God was SENT to EARTH, IN A body God Prepared…
(Heb 10:5)

The BODY of the Word of God was told to manKind…to CALL Him…
JESUS…
(Matt 1:21)

The BODY of the Word of God was told to manKind….that BODY is a HOLY THING.
(Luke 1:35)

That HOLY THING…(Word of God IN a body God Prepared)…was told to manKIND…that he “would be called” the Son of God.

Lawfully…(according to MANS LAW)…that Jesus….was the lawful “son of Joseph and Mary”…and called “Son of man”.
** and it was…..”the Son of man”….human Earthly ManKind….COULD SEE.

THAT….Son of man……WAS SENT to EARTH..
RETURNED….to Heaven…
AND SHALL RETURN to EARTH…

WHY are you Calling…the Son of Man IN the CLOUDS….a RETURN TO EARTH?

Do you think the CLOUDS are EARTH…?

 

[Taken]

So: when Jesus Returns, the faithful peoples will rise up to meet Him in the atmospheric clouds. Which is not heaven.
As Matthew 24:31 makes clear; that gathering is a transportation to where Jesus will be - in Jerusalem.

The 'rapture to heaven' theory is a false teaching and will never happen. After the Millennium, God and heaven come to the earth. Rev 21:1-7

So we agree…there is a Rising up to the Clouds of the Righteous / Faithful….and it is called a Rapture.
(You adding “rising up to Heaven” is irrelevant.)

Why was “faithful/ righteous” Noah risen UP above the EARTH…AND NOT LEFT ON THE EARTH and KEPT FROM DROWNING...during the FIRST event of Tribulation and Wrath Sent down from Heaven…..?

as YOU propose for the SECOND and LAST event of Tribulation and Wrath Sent down from Heaven…THAT the Faithful / Righteous WILL BE ON the Earth…and KEPT from the destruction?

 

[rebuilder 454]

The faithful people, those who fully trust the Lord through all that must happen, are not taken anywhere.

Protection for His people:
Psalms 23:4 Even if I walk through a valley of darkness, I will fear no harm, for You are with me.

Isaiah 41:3 For I the Lord, will hold your right hand, saying: fear not, I will help you.

Isaiah 43:2b…walk thru fire and you will not be scorched, thru flames and not be burned.

Zephaniah 2:3 Seek the Lord, all you who obey Him, it may be that you will be sheltered on the Day of the Lord’s anger.

Proverbs 3:25 Do not be afraid when fools are frightened or when destruction overtakes the wicked, for the Lord will be at your side on that Day.

Daniel 3:25 An angel protects the 3 men in the furnace. THEY weren’t taken out of it!

Jeremiah 30:7 How terrible is that Day….yet Jacob [Israel: My people] will come thru it safely.

1 Corinthians 10:13.... God will not test you beyond your powers and when the test comes, He will provide a way out to enable you to endure.

Psalms 9:10 The Lord does not abandon those who seek Him and trust in Him.

2 Peter 2:9 God knows how to rescue the godly from their trials.

Psalms 18:3 I shall call upon the Lord, then I will be made safe.

Psalms 31:23-24 The Lord protects the faithful. Be strong, all you whose hope is in the Lord.

Psalms 64:10 The righteous rejoice, their refuge in the Lord.

Zechariah 9:15-16 The Lord of hosts will protect His people...On that Day, He will save them, like a flock, for they are precious to Him. Isaiah 61:10

Psalms 37:18-19 The Lord watches over the righteous, when times are bad, they will not be distressed.

Job 22:30 He will deliver the innocent, because their hands are pure.

Psalms 91:1-16 ...He will rescue you, you will not fear the terrors abroad.

Psalms 121:1-8 Our help comes from the Lord, He will guard your life.

Psalms 109:31 The Lord stands at the right hand of the poor and saves them from trials.

Isaiah 51:16 I keep you covered under the shelter of My hand.

Psalms 97:10-12 He keeps His loyal servants safe and rescues them from the wicked.

Jeremiah 17:7-8 Blessed is anyone who trusts in the Lord, they will be like trees by a stream, when the heat comes it has nothing to fear.

Nahum 1:7 The Lord is a sure protection in times of trouble and cares for all those who make Him their refuge.

Psalms 60:4-5 To those who fear the Lord, He will show the way to escape from trouble.

Psalms 37:9 For evildoers will be destroyed, those who trust in the Lord will prosper in the Land.

Isaiah 26:20 On that Day, I will come to your aid.

Daniel 12:1 There will be a time of anguish, but at that time, Your people will be delivered, all those whose names are written in the Book of Life.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 ...to give you relief when the Lord Jesus comes in blazing fire.

Joel 3:16 The Lord roars from Zion, the heavens and the earth shudder, but He is a refuge for His people and a defence for Israel.

Isaiah 65:9b My chosen ones will take possession of the land, those who serve Me will live there.

Ecclesiasticus 34:13-17 Those who fear the Lord will live, for their trust in Him can keep them safe. The Lord keeps watch over those who love Him, He is their shield and support, a shelter from the scorching wind and the heat of the sun. He raises their spirits and gives healing, life and blessings. Apoc.

Reference: Revised English Bible.

In order to make that claim, you have to reject the fact that the Antichrist is given power to overcome the saints.
Also reject that the ones overcoming the AC did so through martyrdom.
You yourself will either be beheaded or take the mark since you reject the Groom coming for his bride.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The Word of God…was IN God IN Heaven…
(Isa 55:11)

The Word of God was SENT to EARTH, IN A body God Prepared…
(Heb 10:5)

The BODY of the Word of God was told to manKind…to CALL Him…
JESUS…
(Matt 1:21)

The BODY of the Word of God was told to manKind….that BODY is a HOLY THING.
(Luke 1:35)

That HOLY THING…(Word of God IN a body God Prepared)…was told to manKIND…that he “would be called” the Son of God.

Lawfully…(according to MANS LAW)…that Jesus….was the lawful “son of Joseph and Mary”…and called “Son of man”.
** and it was…..”the Son of man”….human Earthly ManKind….COULD SEE.

THAT….Son of man……WAS SENT to EARTH..
RETURNED….to Heaven…
AND SHALL RETURN to EARTH…

WHY are you Calling…the Son of Man IN the CLOUDS….a RETURN TO EARTH?

Do you think the CLOUDS are EARTH…?

Noah was over a mile into the sky while postribbers were clinging to yetti ice chests.
Noah went up and stayed up into the heavens DURING the entire trib.
Noah returs to earth to set up a new kingdom POSTRIB.

One would have to purposefully blind themselves to miss it.

 

[WPM]

Noah was over a mile into the sky while postribbers were clinging to yetti ice chests.
Noah went up and stayed up into the heavens DURING the entire trib.
Noah returs to earth to set up a new kingdom POSTRIB.

One would have to purposefully blind themselves to miss it.

How many people survived the flood?

 

[Taken]

Noah was over a mile into the sky while postribbers were clinging to yetti ice chests

Noah went up and stayed up into the heavens DURING the entire trib.
Noah returs to earth to set up a new kingdom POSTRIB.

One would have to purposefully blind themselves to miss it.

Yes. The firmament IS the Heaven{S]…
Yes, I said Heavens (plural)…

Like with all things Scripture teaches manKIND, we get “glimpses”, with our human eyes, of things we are not yet “prepared” to SEE with spiritual sight.

The Lower Heavens…men fly through the clouds….men climb mountains surrounded by clouds…It’s our “glimpse”…and notice the thin air, hard to breath what manKind requires…
The Mid Heavens….we can see at night, Planets, stars…Celestial angels estate
The High Heavens…where departed saved souls and departed quickened spirits go, when the body dies and returns to the earth.

AND………the Heaven Above the Heavens…
Huh? Remember Jesus said no man has been there?
(All of Heaven is Gods Throne…but the Heaven above the Heavens is Gods Estate.)

Pss 57:
[11] Be thou exalted, O God, above the heavens: let thy glory be above all the earth.

Pss 148:
[4] Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.

(Scientifically…maybe…”black hole”…whereby no light escapes, so they say.)

AND also to note…When Moses climbed high up to the top of the Mountain…to get the Ten Commandments….um…Remember God said to Moses to remove his shoes…Because he was standing on Holy Ground….

Rapture of Christ’s Church…yes.
Resurrection is different….

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Noah was over a mile into the sky while postribbers were clinging to yetti ice chests.
Noah went up and stayed up into the heavens DURING the entire trib.
Noah returs to earth to set up a new kingdom POSTRIB.

One would have to purposefully blind themselves to miss it.

Did you know, Noah/family/animals were in the ark for SEVEN days before it began to rain?
SEVEN days…SEVEN years….there are similitudes between the TWO tribulations and wrath sent down from Heaven…
(Primarily…God is ANGRY…and enough is enough).

I have a theory about the timing….but maybe share another day.

Also…adding to the rainfall, WAS underground Oceans that were “opened” for water to gush upward….(called Scripturally; fountains of the deep)….and to remove the water from the earth….winds, assuaged the waters back into underground (holes, pits, whatever they be called)… AND near (India I think it is), a mammoth underground ocean has been discovered….(recent decades )..mountains, valley’s, plates, under the oceans, we already know….

Just sharing…

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

How many people survived the flood?

8

 

[Taken]

@rebuilder 454

Tidbits…
* Population much fewer in Noahs’ day….Noah/family/animals enter ark….7 days later the rain begins.

Gen 7:
[1] And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
Gen 7:
[4] For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

Where was Noah/family taken?
Gen 7:
[17] And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

Who repopulated the earth?
Noah was hundreds of years old…wife old…3 sons, daughter in laws…
ALL participated in repopulation, cousins, nephews, nieces….intermarried.

Gen 9:
[1] And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

The tribulations men suffer NOW, is men against men…

The tribulations from Heaven for Gods Anger….is not appointed to Christ’s Church to suffer….and “curiously” no where is the Church present ON earth during the last days Trib.

Praise God…An escape and deliverance already prepared FOR the SANCTIFI-ED.

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Keraz]

The tribulations from Heaven for Gods Anger….is not appointed to Christ’s Church to suffer….and “curiously” no where is the Church present ON earth during the last days Trib.

If people want to avoid any trials and testings, then they are what Hebrews 12:7-8 describes.

Praise God…An escape and deliverance already prepared FOR the SANCTIFI-ED.

Yes, the Lord will protect His people, those who call upon His Name, when disaster strikes. NOT by removal out of it, but by shelter thru it. Psalms 23, 91, +

 

[Taken]

If people want to avoid any trials and testings, then they are what Hebrews 12:7-8 describes.

Heb 12:
[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

The CAVEAT…. IF …
Endure Chastening (ie a misfortune)…
ALL are partakers….

What does THAT ^ have to do with a conversation ABOUT the Last days tribulations? NOTHING.

ALL humans do NOT experience the tribulations in the end days.

Are you UNAWARE, BILLIONS of human men have been naturally born, died, and ARE NOT alive during the end Days Tribulations?

That Passage APPLIES to ALL men who have ever Lived…were godly…and STUPIDIFIED in WONDERING “WHY” God “ALLOWED MISFORTUNES” to happen TO THEM!

Do you live in a cocoon and NOT NOTICE godly men ever WONDERING / COMPLAINING….
WHY….their baby had to die?
WHY….their house was destroyed in a tornado?
WHY….they were mamed IN a WAR?
WHY….they suffer a horrific Disease?
WHY….they were imprisoned for a crime they didn’t commit?

And they (some) Cry Out…WHY God…WHY did you ALLOW that to Happen to ME…??Who has been a faithful believe IN YOU…??

Don’t you get it? it is “ALL” ALIVE LIVING MEN who are TESTED at points IN THEIR Natural Lives……with a conclusion….
Will they BLAME God for ALLOWING “THEM” to SUFFER….THINKING with their Carnal Mind HE COULD HAVE “PPREVENTED their suffering”…?

Yes God COULD have stopped their suffering….HOWEVER….. God was testing their ENDURANCE
to….
REMAIN faithful to God…inspite of misfortunes….
OR
Whine and complain and turn Against God?

“ALL” men are tested…
Not the case in the last days tribulation….
Because DUH…ALL men are NOT ALIVE!

Yes, the Lord will protect His people, those who call upon His Name, when disaster strikes. NOT by removal out of it, but by shelter thru it. Psalms 23, 91, +

** DISASTERS….occurr ON THIS EARTH!
MANY VIA WEATHER…which God Controls!
MANY VIA DARE..chancing doing stupid stuff
MANY VIA DISEASES…of a weak body
MANY VIA PLOTS…of wicked men

**…AND FOR THE “GODLY”….their refuge “IS” being “COMFORTED BY GOD…THROUGH the DISASTER”..

You are oddly proposing MEN WHO HAVE ALREADY been MADE WHOLE (body, soul, spirit)….SANCIFIED….ARE IN NEED OF BEING “TESTED”….but, but, but…..
** WILL NOT SUFFER the “testing”….
BECAUSE…while the man standing next to him is being plummeted with rocks falling on them from an earthquake….God will hold back the rocks from falling on the Sanctified…

OR a man being burned alive in a fire that SHALL destroy a third of the Earth….a Sanctified man will walk though the fire unscathed!

A man IN Christ…IS COMFORTED through Disasters….During his NATURAL LIFE-TIME.

During the Tribulations….MEN who BeLIEVE, (BUT ARE NOT SANCTIFIED IN CHRIST)….SHALL SUFFER the Tribulations…UNTIL the POINT …they CONFESS Belief IN CHRIST….and RIGHT THEN…their suffering SHALL end…………
BY THEIR BODY BECOMING ….
MORTALLY DEAD!!

During the tribulations….MEN who DO NOT Believe….and CONTINUE NOT BELIEVING…
WILL “WANT to become Mortally Dead”…to stop their suffering…….
AND….God will NOT ALLOW “THEM” to DIe UNTIL He ALLOWS IT….(called Gods Vengenance!)

WHERE in that scenario….during the last days tribulations…..ON the face of the Earth…IS CHRIST’S CHURCH…
who have ALREADY been Crucified DEAD with JESUS…soul SAVED…and spirit QUICKENED?

THEY Are NOT ON the Earth…BECAUSE THEY already PASSED the TEST during their Lifetime….HAD tribulations ON THIS EARTH during their Lifetime….AND ENDURED…REMAINED Faithful TO GOD!

THEY Are NOT ON the Earth…BECAUSE God fulfills His WORD to EXCEPT them from Suffering Gods Trubulations and wrath…

God IS ANGRY at men who REJECT HIM.
God IS JEALOUS when men worship another god.
God TESTS men WHO Reject Him, WHO Reject His Lord…
Gods ANGER Against men SHALL be revealed through GOD’S Tribulations and Wrath sent down from Heaven UPON the WHOLE EARTH…

How can YOU be ON the Earth and EXCEPTED?
Gods Comfort is not an EXCEPTION from experiencing His Wrath.

The ONES ON the Earth who SHALL Be EXCEPTED are the 144,000 with Gods MAR in their foreheads…

You think ALIVE MEN in their NATURAL FLESH are going to receive GODS MARK ON THEIR FOREHEAD OF their natura SINFUll FLESH? Uh no…

IN Gods Tribulations and Wrath…God IS MAD at ALL the earths inhabitants…and YOU think that INCLUDES Christ’s Sanctifed Church?

Christ’s Church SHALL BE EXCEPTED by being RISEN UP off the face of the Earth…to ABOVE the Earth……
Just as it happped IN Naoh’s day, he being lifted ABOVE the Earth…as God DESTROYED the Earth and its inhabitants!

You trying to REVISE “HOW” God “EXCEPTS” the Sanctified from being subject to Gods WRATH IS NOT according to Gods word.


You theory is holey…but not holy.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

@Keraz

 

[rebuilder 454]

If people want to avoid any trials and testings, then they are what Hebrews 12:7-8 describes.

Yes, the Lord will protect His people, those who call upon His Name, when disaster strikes. NOT by removal out of it, but by shelter thru it. Psalms 23, 91, +

I guess some people should pray for more trials since they are so attached to them.