It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[IndianaRob]

Not me,
for i SEE,
therefore i am Known
along with the Bride that BE

HE that cometh for me
along with the Bride i BE
HE cometh for me and the Bride that BE
do you SEE

HE will Come as HE Promised
Yet if HE is not already
you may not be ready
do you SEE

You do realize that the new man in us comes from the union between the woman (the believer) and Christ.

Christ is not a fornicator and he will not be a part of the creation of the new man in those he is not married to.

This is explained in Ephesians 5 and Romans 7.

 

[rebuilder 454]

So David the marriage of the Lamb is in Revelation 19. Are we not married to Christ right now? Is the marriage something your still waiting to come?

The church is the Gentile bride.
The covenant Jew is the "wife gone awhoring".
We are the bride.
The wedding feast in heaven points to the consummation.
The last supper has uncanny resemblance to the Jewish betrothal and vows. Almost an exact mirror.
Church = bride betrothed.
Covenant Jew = Wayward wife in rebellion.
In heaven they become one.
This is illustrated in Ruth

 

[rebuilder 454]

You do realize that the new man in us comes from the union between the woman (the believer) and Christ.

Christ is not a fornicator and he will not be a part of the creation of the new man in those he is not married to.

This is explained in Ephesians 5 and Romans 7.

The 10 virgins are betrothed.
The groom ( not the husband) takes those worthy ones into the marriage chamber in heaven.
The betrothal is just as binding as marriage, in that the bride must be pure.( hence only worthy ones are raptured)
A cloth is under the bride, in the marriage bed, to be stained in blood . That cloth is kept by the parents of the bride, and is authenticated by the rabbi.
If any accusation by the husband occurs, the cloth is proof of her purity.

 

[IndianaRob]

The church is the Gentile bride.
The covenant Jew is the "wife gone awhoring".
We are the bride.
The wedding feast in heaven points to the consummation.
The last supper has uncanny resemblance to the Jewish betrothal and vows. Almost an exact mirror.
Church = bride betrothed.
Covenant Jew = Wayward wife in rebellion.
In heaven they become one.
This is illustrated in Ruth

Look rebuilder what you’re saying is IMPOSSIBLE. This is more made up stuff that your side comes up with to support your view.

Christ is not a fornicator, he will not join with a woman to produce the new man if he’s is not married to that woman.

 

[David in NJ]

You do realize that the new man in us comes from the union between the woman (the believer) and Christ.

Christ is not a fornicator and he will not be a part of the creation of the new man in those he is not married to.

This is explained in Ephesians 5 and Romans 7.

What's the MATTA U ???

HE that gives Life to me
for unto HIM
is the Bride that BE

No MATTA what you be
When HE comes Calling
It is Time to say YES
and to put on your Wedding Dress

Many have already been Wed
to the HUSBAND who Rose from HIS Bed
SHE that BE is calling out - you SEE

SHE BE Adorned by the SPIRIT
Together THEY say there is Room for More
So don't just sit there
If you have your Wedding Dress on
Get out and show them the Wedding DOOR

 

[IndianaRob]

The 10 virgins are betrothed.
The groom ( not the husband) takes those worthy ones into the marriage chamber in heaven.
The betrothal is just as binding as marriage, in that the bride must be pure.( hence only worthy ones are raptured)
A cloth is under the bride, in the marriage bed, to be stained in blood . That cloth is kept by the parents of the bride, and is authenticated by the rabbi.
If any accusation by the husband occurs, the cloth is proof of her purity.

The betrothal period is the time from salvation until the old man dies. When the old man dies the woman is now free to marry Christ. When she marries Christ, a union is formed between Christ and the woman and the end result of that union is the NEW MAN.

 

[WPM]

Noah is a picture of the pretrib rapture. He is in the ark BEFORE the flood, not the day of the flood.

Lot is a picture of the Jewish harvest. The same day Lot left Sodom destruction came. The same day of the Jewish harvest destruction will come. That day is the Day of the Lord.

Says who? You? It seems like you think if you state a thing that makes it so. That is not the way it works. Where does it teach this in the Bible?

• Show us one Scripture that teaches that "the feasts of God are a picture of the end times"?
• Where is "the barley harvest" mentioned in the NT?
• Where is "the wheat harvest" mentioned in the NT?
• Where is all this jargon about "on the Feast of Trumpets, the fall harvest feast" in the NT text or in any rapture passage?

 

[IndianaRob]

What's the MATTA U ???

HE that gives Life to me
for unto HIM
is the Bride that BE

No MATTA what you be
When HE comes Calling
it is Time to say YES
and to put on your Wedding Dress

Many have already been Wed
to the HUSBAND who Rose from HIS Bed
SHE that BE is calling out - you SEE
SHE BE Adorned by the SPIRIT
Together THEY say there is Room for More
So don't just sit there
If you have your Wedding Dress on
Get out and show them the Wedding DOOR

This is Christianity 101.

 

[David in NJ]

This is Christianity 101.

101 is where it Begun
in the Life of God's only Begotten SON

We have not yet Graduated my son
There is more to Grow and to Glow
from the Mountain that is Higher then the Snow

UP UP ABOVE there Reigns a KING of Love
from THERE HE calls out in the Voice of the DOVE
to those who are His LOVE

 

[David in NJ]

Look rebuilder what you’re saying is IMPOSSIBLE. This is more made up stuff that your side comes up with to support your view.

Christ is not a fornicator, he will not join with a woman to produce the new man if he’s is not married to that woman.

As per the course for the lie of pre-trib rapture

They ALWAYS mix Truth with Error in order to feed their pleasure!

 

[The Light]

Says who? You? It seems like you think if you state a thing that makes it so. That is not the way it works. Where does it teach this in the Bible?

• Show us one Scripture that teaches that "the feasts of God are a picture of the end times"?
• Where is "the barley harvest" mentioned in the NT?
• Where is "the wheat harvest" mentioned in the NT?
• Where is all this jargon about "on the Feast of Trumpets, the fall harvest feast" in the NT text or in any rapture passage?

You probably missed my earlier response.

This was answered in post #857.

 

[David in NJ]

The church is the Gentile bride.
The covenant Jew is the "wife gone awhoring".
We are the bride.
The wedding feast in heaven points to the consummation.
The last supper has uncanny resemblance to the Jewish betrothal and vows. Almost an exact mirror.
Church = bride betrothed.
Covenant Jew = Wayward wife in rebellion.
In heaven they become one.
This is illustrated in Ruth

As per the course for the lie of pre-trib rapture

They ALWAYS mix Truth with Error in order to feed their pleasure!

Well, at least you have Post 903 correct.

 

[IndianaRob]

101 is where it Begun
in the Life of God's only Begotten SON

We have not yet Graduated my son
There is more to Grow and to Glow
from the Mountain that is Higher then the Snow

UP UP ABOVE there Reigns a KING of Love
from THERE HE calls out in the Voice of the DOVE
to those who are His LOVE

People need to get 101 down before they start teaching on advanced things like prophecy.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

The Pretrib theory is dead. It is time to give it a decent burial. Anyone who observed the debate on the following thread will know how ludicrous and defunct the Pretrib position is.

The pre trib. rapture is only dead in your mind my friend, because it is factual, even if you can not dig it out. There are reasons why it not a theme throughout the bible, because the bible is about Israel, if they had not rejected Jesus as their Messiah there would not have been a church age at all, but God knew they would reject Jesus so He planed ahead, foretelling how a peoples He had not known He would call (Gentiles). So, the fault is all your, the bible was not about the Church but Israel, none of the prophets were privy to the Church per se, but they are mentioned here and there, like when Isaiah stated God would call a people he had not known. Like in Dan. 11 where we get the "transition period" in verses 34-35, where many are made "White" until the end, well that's mainly not Jews right? Its the Church being made white, some are Jews, but there was no Israel for 2000 years, so its about the Church. But one must use common sense, and not have a predesignated, entrenched position, else they become blind to facts.

All Pretribbers had in response was ad hominem, belittling and avoidance (and in Dougg’s case distorted charts)

In my dealing with the subject, its always you guys who use ad hominem attacks. The truth is, if a person can not see a pre trib. rapture, then I understand he's not very insightful, and I will not trust anything they tell me about Eschatology. PERIOD. I have been called unto Eschatology for plus 40 years, you are probably just a message board warrior, I bet you never put in studies that takes weeks or months do you? Its my job to do so, let you think you have all the answers, and wrongly call people who actually are in the know False Teachers, thats just sad really.

This was shown to be Left Behind fiction. None of the scriptural texts taught a 3rd coming of Christ. This was shown to be an extra-biblical Pretrib invention.

Never read nor seen Left Behind, but he was correct on the thesis, but we do not fly off in these bodies. In 1 Cor. 15 a proper reading shows that our Spirit Man ONLY goes to be with the Lord so when it says we must be CHANGED (those living) it is saying we must lose our SIN FLESH (die and leave our flesh bodies which vs. 50 says can not enter heaven) behind.

I will destroy your thesis in a bit, the only people teaching falsehoods that will (WILL) cost lives is you guys

 

[Davidpt]

One of your verses says God will sound a trump at the rapture.
Another of your verses says " the last trump"
You say Both are "the last trump."
Here is yet another trump of God indicating that no matter how many times God shows up it could be with a trump.
Rev1
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Trump
Trumpet
Last trump
Last day

All become catch phrases when postribbers invoke them to void out 10 or so solid pretrib rapture verses.
Not how it works.
It is like saying the fig tree is only used in the Bible to point to the Jews.
Nope it CAN DO THAT.
Not always though

But I did explain why they have to be the same trump in this case. That being that someone is rising from the dead and that 1 Corinthians 15:52 is the only Scripture I'm aware of that tells us when someone rising from the dead puts on bodily immortality, that being the last trump. IOW, it is impossible to put on bodily immortality before the last trump if it is not until the last trump that that can happen. It is nonsensical to rise from the dead and not even be in an immortal body yet, but have to wait 3.5 years or more(the length of great tribulation) to put on bodily immortality. What are they doing in the meantime, the fact their bodies have risen from the dead except they are not immortal bodies yet?

If Pretribbers want to insist Pretrib is true, simply submit the Scripture that proves when the dead in Christ allegedly rise prior to great tribulation, they put on bodily immortality the moment they rise. IOW, I'm looking for a clear Scripture like 1 Corinthians 15:52, except Pretribbers obviously can't use that Scripture since that Scripture is meaning post trib not pre trib.

 

[David in NJ]

People need to get 101 down before they start teaching on advanced things like prophecy.

For SURE

Like the Resurrection from the dead at His Second Coming!!!

 

[David in NJ]

The pre trib. rapture is only dead in your mind my friend, because it is factual, even if you can not dig it out. There are reasons why it not a theme throughout the bible, because the bible is about Israel, if they had not rejected Jesus as their Messiah there would not have been a church age at all, but God knew they would reject Jesus so He planed ahead, foretelling how a peoples He had not known He would call (Gentiles). So, the fault is all your, the bible was not about the Church but Israel, none of the prophets were privy to the Church per se, but they are mentioned here and there, like when Isaiah stated God would call a people he had not known. Like in Dan. 11 where we get the "transition period" in verses 34-35, where many are made "White" until the end, well that's mainly not Jews right? Its the Church being made white, some are Jews, but there was no Israel for 2000 years, so its about the Church. But one must use common sense, and not have a predesignated, entrenched position, else they become blind to facts.


In my dealing with the subject, its always you guys who use ad hominem attacks. The truth is, if a person can not see a pre trib. rapture, then I understand he's not very insightful, and I will not trust anything they tell me about Eschatology. PERIOD. I have been called unto Eschatology for plus 40 years, you are probably just a message board warrior, I bet you never put in studies that takes weeks or months do you? Its my job to do so, let you think you have all the answers, and wrongly call people who actually are in the know False Teachers, thats just sad really.


Never read nor seen Left Behind, but he was correct on the thesis, but we do not fly off in these bodies. In 1 Cor. 15 a proper reading shows that our Spirit Man ONLY goes to be with the Lord so when it says we must be CHANGED (those living) it is saying we must lose our SIN FLESH (die and leave our flesh bodies which vs. 50 says can not enter heaven) behind.

I will destroy your thesis in a bit, the only people teaching falsehoods that will (WILL) cost lives is you guys

SEE Post 915

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Remember: we are going to look at all the main Pretrib "proof-texts." If Pretribbers are uncomfortable with these, and these do not prove the Pretrib theory (as they do not), then the theory is dead in the water.

Firstly, you seemingly do not understand the bible is about Israel, so there will only be a few hints at the Churches Rapture in the New Testament, and in some of those like 2 Thess. 2 Satan has subverted the meaning in order to deceive. You problem, like many, you have no understanding of TIMNG TELLS and how God uses them. Nowhere did God explicitly state what date, when, et al that Jesus was going to be born, but King Herod had people trying to kill baby Jesus, so scriptures can tell us things even when God doesn't hit us over the head and give us a fast date. Everything is done by TIMING TELLS, like the Messiah, Godly people knew the Messiah must be cut off (die) by the end of the 69th week, so people were looking for him and some were telling King Herod this so he starting killing all babies under 2 years old in a certain place. So, just because we do not get a write up, giving us a date means nothing.

If you really understood Romans chapters 9-11 you might be able to grasp he raptures TIMING. In Rom. chapter 9 we get Paul telling the Romans not to get the big head about being called by God, then he tells them why Israel was forsaken, its all about FAITH. Then he tells about how God chooses whom He wills when He wills, in other words its all about whom God choose to SERVE Him, as in Service unto God. So, he demonstrates this, God chose Abraham, God hardened Pharaohs heart, God chose Jacob over Esau while they were both still in the womb, God is the potter and choses what vessel He wishes to to create, who can tell the potter (God) what to do is the essence of the chapter as in who can tell God whom to chose for SERVICE (this is KEY in ch. 11 of understanding the pre trib. Rapture)

Then in Ch. 11Paul says has God cast away His people? No, He has not. Paul later says they have stumbled that grace might come unto the whole world. Paul then speaks about the branches being broken off because of UNBELIEF and ads in when/if their unbelief goes away they will be grafted back i again. (TIMING TELL COMIG UP......KEY, which you seemingly can not grasp)

Roman 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved:

Do you even understand tht Romans 9-11 are one passage meant to go together? There were no chapters or verses in the bible, the English translators put them in. So, above, Paul is speaking about SERVICE unto God when he says the Fulness of the Gentiles, you know why we know? READ Romans 9 !! In these three chapters Paul is explaining how Gid had not cast Israel away for good, how God uses the service of those whom He will, when He wills. How God cut them off (the branches) and will one day graft them back into the Olive Tree Family, BUT WHEN? That is what Paul just told us in vs. 25, if we LISTEN !! Instead of already knowing it all.

Paul says do not be ignorant of this SECRET, (Muo in Greek means God is silent by shutting the mouth so its more apt to call this a secret, not a mystery per se) lest you think you are wiser than you are, you are no better than Israel in your calling (basically Paul is saying God has chosen you to serve now, He chose them as the people/nation to birth the Messiah and He will graft Israel back in when the Fulness of the Gentiles SERVICE is over). The blindness IN PART points to Israel being blind, but not individual Jews, every man must have a chance of redemption, of course, via a Just God. The Diaspora is why Israel could not repent as a nation. So, why bring them back in UNBELIEF in 1948? To get them ready for THEIR TIME, when they repent just after the pre 70th week rapture, when the TIME of the Gentiles Service has come full, meaning we are no longer on earth. But of course you can not understand these TIMIG TELLS. They are scattered throughout out the bible.

When I destroy all your points like most people who can not understand these things, you will come back with snide belittling remarks while dodging the facts I present, but I am used to that with you guys.

 

[IndianaRob]

For SURE

Like the Resurrection from the dead at His Second Coming!!!

Yes that’s right. Start living in the millennial kingdom right now.

 

[David in NJ]

Yes that’s right. Start living in the millennial kingdom right now.

i thought you graduated from 101 !!!