rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Any verses I refer to are immediately cast down and stomped, illustrating your heart and disrespect for God's word.
It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial
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rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Because you have no understanding of the Jewish people being brought back and being grafted back in and gathered unto God vividlyillustrated in rom 9,10 and 11.
The entirety of the tribulation Is Jacob's trouble ,which is directed directly to the Jewish people that God will regather.
his Covenant people
I guess the fact that the 144,000 are ethnic Messianic Jews goes completely over your head .
they're referred to as first fruits.
that means they are gathered first.
they are the first fruit Jewish Gathering, then in Revelation 14, after we see the 144,000 in heaven Before the Throne, Jesus with a sickle gathers the remaining Jewish people.
he appears to them on a cloud and they look up to him and they recognize him as the Messiah and they are gathered.
Now, possibly a segment of the Jewish people, anyone with a hard heart ,deny Him, when he appears on the cloud, obviously will not be gathered. I don't think you have the first inkling of any of that.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Are you being smitten?
If so, by whom and in what way?
God says whoever adds to his words or takes away from them will be judged as a 'liar'.
It is easy to SEE who is lying on here when they REVERSE the Order of God's words, by saying rapture first then resurrection.
RUN to SAFETY - Proverbs 30:5
Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
RUN from the lie of pre-trib - Proverbs 30:6
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
No HE did not.
You do not understand the words of CHRIST when He says: "they were eating, drinking and given in marriage"
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Please identify the passage of scripture wherein is stated "white horses", if other then here in Revelation
Revelation 19:11-16
Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS
AND
LORD OF LORDS.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Good Morning to EVERYONE who is in the LORD Jesus Christ,
[B]@David in NJ [/B] @The Light @marks @WPM @IndianaRob @Spiritual Israelite @MA2444 @rebuilder 454
IF, you have not done this or your desire is to please God and not man.
Print out in LARGE Print this scripture = Proverbs 30:5-6
Everyday bow your knee before the LORD and pray Proverbs 30:5-6 so that you will NOT be judged as a liar.
Gotta go for now = Blessing & LIGHT is only found in the TRUTH = John 17:15-19
[B]@David in NJ [/B] @The Light @marks @WPM @IndianaRob @Spiritual Israelite @MA2444 @rebuilder 454
IF, you have not done this or your desire is to please God and not man.
Print out in LARGE Print this scripture = Proverbs 30:5-6
Everyday bow your knee before the LORD and pray Proverbs 30:5-6 so that you will NOT be judged as a liar.
Gotta go for now = Blessing & LIGHT is only found in the TRUTH = John 17:15-19
I think I’m good on that one but thanks for the heads-up!
The Light
Well-Known Member
Before a harvest there are first fruits that are presented to the Lord.
Here are the first fruits of the second harvest. They are the seed of the woman, the twelve tribes across the earth.......Jews
Revelation 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Then there is a harvest, seen here.
Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
We know who was harvested, because we know the first fruits of the harvest. And we have proof that they are of the 12 tribes because those harvested are singing the song of Moses.
Revelation 15
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
The fig tree has two harvests. The first will be the Church which are mostly Gentiles. The second will be mostly of the 12 tribes. There are two raptures.
Who were the first people on earth that were redeemed by the shed blood of Christ?
Normal life continues on right up until Christ comes. They are eating, drinking and marrying as usual, they are claiming "peace and safety," then utter destruction strikes them unexpectedly. As in the time of the flood, all the unbelievers are destroyed.
There is no space for your tribulation period and a 2nd rapture and a 3rd coming. There is no space for some future millennium. All those that are left behind are destroyed. All the wicked are dead. All the mortals are dead. All the saints are glorified and the earth is glorified. We're now into the eternal state.
Jesus said in Luke 17:24-34: “For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.”
We note three particular characteristics of this day, which will be repeated at the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. (1) The wicked lived as if there was no judgement coming, verse 38 says, “they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage.” (2) The wicked were caught unexpected, verse 39 says, they “knew not until the flood came.” And finally, (3) the wicked were ALL destroyed, verse 39 says, “the flood came, and took them all away.”
The days before the coming of Christ will see the wicked at ease living in pleasure, sin and carelessness, with no thought of eternity. The everyday occurrences of life (like eating, drinking and marriage) will continue as normal right up until Jesus comes. Christ's coming is going to catch the wicked unexpectedly. His arrival will surprise only those who are not prepared for it. The wrath of God is sudden and totally destructive. No one survives as this passage tells us.
I Thessalonians 5:2-7 the enormity of this climactic event: “the day of the Lord will come (or appear or arrive) as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.”
The peace and safety occurs just before Jesus comes at His one final future coming. Any way, if the day of the Lord in 1 Thessalonians 5:3 relates to a third coming of Christ, as some Pretribbers argue, and if they relate this to the event of Revelation 19, which they say is the end of a great 7 years tribulation, how can the wicked be crying “peace and safety”? Surely, according to Pretrib, this is a period of the wrath of God being poured out on all those left behind according to Pretrib theology?
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The Light
Well-Known Member
The harvest of the 12 tribes across the earth in Revelation 14 is the second coming, when all eyes see the coming of the Lord. This is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, which is the coming of Jesus seen in Matthew 24, seen here.
Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Note that the tribulation is OVER. That is the great tribulation. Note that the unbelievers are cast into the wrath of God.
Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Tribulation is not wrath. Tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The seventh seal is the wrath of God which contains the trumpets and vials.
The same ones called the firstfruits of the Spirit that were raised to heaven a spiritual body of believers after Christ resurrected from the dead. They waited under the altar, not yet in heaven, until Christ came to set the captives free.
The Light
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure I understand the point of the question you are asking...........but.................
Those would be the ones that first believed on Him. You're are saying redeemed on the earth, not from the earth, correct?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
@rwb may be right in saying they were the Old Testament dead in Christ but I tend to think the 144,000 were the first to enter the kingdom of heaven that Jesus brought in when he came.
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