It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[The Light]

I thought your millennium happens after Rev 19?

It does.

How can there be time when time shall be no more at the last trumpet? That is ridiculous.

Do you think there is a reason that the New King James version translates the verse like this...................

Revelation 10
6 and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things that are in it, the earth and the things that are in it, and the sea and the things that are in it, that there should be delay no longer,

Why is it changed in the New King James Version?

Check the other translations. You will mostly find a similar translation.

 

[The Light]

These are all second coming passages that show the coming of Christ to be the end.

How can Jesus come for the 144,000 first fruits of Revelation 14 and it be the same as the coming of Jesus for the harvest at the end of Revelation 14.

Those 144,000 first fruits of the 12 tribes just blows your one coming of Jesus out the tub.

All this jargon about "on the Feast of Trumpets, the fall harvest feast" is not in the NT text or are they in any rapture passage. That is what you have been wrongly taught. You are now left holding the baby. You add it unto Scripture to support your false teaching. That is the only way your argument is sustained. It is built upon sand.

Hmmm. How is it the scripture continually proves your doctrine is in error. The FACT that Jesus comes at the 6th seal at the end of tribulation, and BEFORE the wrath of God is just one of the many things that proves your doctrine is in error.

 

[David in NJ]

How can Jesus come for the 144,000 first fruits of Revelation 14 and it be the same as the coming of Jesus for the harvest at the end of Revelation 14.

Those 144,000 first fruits of the 12 tribes just blows your one coming of Jesus out the tub.


Hmmm. How is it the scripture continually proves your doctrine is in error. The FACT that Jesus comes at the 6th seal at the end of tribulation, and BEFORE the wrath of God is just one of the many things that proves your doctrine is in error.

The FACT that Jesus comes at the 6th seal at the end of tribulation, and BEFORE the wrath of God is just one of the many things that proves your doctrine is in error.

This is a 'Sure Foundation' for your freedom from the error of pre-trib.

 

[The Light]

Do you believe that JESUS spoke false doctrine???

Are these words of His Post-Trib Prophecy a "false doctrine"?

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

You are confusing the tribulation with the wrath of God.

This verse in Matthew 24 happens at the 6th seal. We can prove that by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

The 6th seal is before the wrath of God.

Simple.

 

[The Light]

1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:4 confirms: “if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the [Gr. parousia] of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.”

Where is your prolonged trib here?

Why is it necessary for you to blend 1 Thes 4 into 1 Thes 5.

Maybe you should understand what you are reading.

 

[The Light]

This is a 'Sure Foundation' for your freedom from the error of pre-trib.

Yes, I agree. Pretib is scriptural and gives us joy and freedom

1 Thes 4
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[David in NJ]

You are confusing the tribulation with the wrath of God.

This verse in Matthew 24 happens at the 6th seal. We can prove that by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

The 6th seal is before the wrath of God.

Simple.

You are confusing the tribulation with the wrath of God.

lol - that is the error of pre-trib

The 6th seal is before the wrath of God.

The 6th Seal is a PREVIEW of the Second Coming of the LAMB, who now brings the WRATH of God

Fixed it for ya - KISS

Keep
It
Simple
Saints

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, I agree. Pretib is scriptural and gives us joy and freedom

1 Thes 4
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

There does not exist a single pre-trib rapture verse in the Gospel, or in the Apostles Letters

$1,000.00 USD if you can find one

 

[rebuilder 454]

When the Bible says: "JESUS will gather..." it is CONGRUENT that the Holy angels SERVE the LIVING God

And again:

“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?
But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:

“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”
And of the angels He says:

“Who makes His angels spirits
And His ministers a flame of fire.”

Are they not all ministering spirits, being sent forth for service for the sake of those being about to inherit salvation?

"..He shall send his angels..." (while he stays where he is at)
"..and THEY SHALL GATHER..."

NOT AT ALL THE RAPTURE.
Eschatology centers on the bride and the bridegroom. The groom Gathering the bride. That is what the Rapture is. It's not a Doctrine about the tribulation .
it's not what is the timing ,or, "I know the timing and you don't."
Timing is indirect

The actual Rapture is the groom Gathering the bride.

 

[rebuilder 454]

There does not exist a single pre-trib rapture verse in the Gospel, or in the Apostles Letters

$1,000.00 USD if you can find one

Mat 24:38
" before the flood" ..watch and be ready.
Acts 1
" ...this same Jesus shall return in like manner". ( uh that would be only fitting pretrib rapture)
Rev 3 :
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth
Pick one

I prefer cash.



FedEx secure shipping will work.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In amil land there are no commas or periods.
The entire end times is a blur.
The entire deal is a FF button,fast tracking EVERY EVENT to the GWT Judgment.
It all happens at once.
Nobody is going to fall for ANY of that friend.
That is the emptiest eschatology wagon ever to hit the trail.

Yet, you are completely incapable of presenting a coherent argument to refute it. Why should anyone take you seriously when you're just all talk and no substance? Your arguments are non-existent.

 

[The Light]

lol - that is the error of pre-trib

LOL. The real laugh is that those that believe in a pre trib rapture do not understand that the Great Tribulation and the wrath of God are not the same thing.

Tribulation is not wrath

The 6th Seal is a PREVIEW of the Second Coming of the LAMB, who now brings the WRATH of God

Fixed it for ya - KISS

No the 6th seal is the second coming.

You have to pretend that the 6th seal doesn't happen because it is one of the many things that shoots down your doctrine.

The coming of Jesus in Revelation 14 is another. Oh guess what.........the coming of Jesus in Rev 14 for the harvest happens at the 6th seal BEFORE the wrath of God which we can confirm here.

Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

 

[The Light]

There does not exist a single pre-trib rapture verse in the Gospel, or in the Apostles Letters

$1,000.00 USD if you can find one

I'm still looking for the supposed post trib (which is really post wrath) scripture in Revelation.

What verses show your rapture in Revelation?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Mat 24:38
" before the flood" ..watch and be ready.
Acts 1
" ...this same Jesus shall return in like manner". ( uh that would be only fitting pretrib rapture)
Rev 3 :
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth
Pick one

I prefer cash.



FedEx secure shipping will work.

Always nothing but gibberish from you and then you act like you have proven something. You are the most delusional person on this entire forum.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How can Jesus come for the 144,000 first fruits of Revelation 14 and it be the same as the coming of Jesus for the harvest at the end of Revelation 14.

Those 144,000 first fruits of the 12 tribes just blows your one coming of Jesus out the tub.

Show me where it indicates that the 144,000 have immortal bodies before the return of Christ (the third coming of Christ in your view, I guess).

Hmmm. How is it the scripture continually proves your doctrine is in error. The FACT that Jesus comes at the 6th seal at the end of tribulation, and BEFORE the wrath of God is just one of the many things that proves your doctrine is in error.

Amils agree that He comes after the tribulation (Matt 24:29-31) and before His wrath comes down, so why are you calling his doctrine error when he agrees with this? Are you just incapable of understanding what others believe?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It does.

Do you think there is a reason that the New King James version translates the verse like this...................

Revelation 10
6 and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things that are in it, the earth and the things that are in it, and the sea and the things that are in it, that there should be delay no longer,

Why is it changed in the New King James Version?

Check the other translations. You will mostly find a similar translation.

All of the translations agree that the time of the dead being judged comes at the seventh trumpet. How do you reconcile that with your doctrine?

Revelation 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” 16 And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying: “We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned. 18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”

When are the dead judged? Before or after the thousand years? After...

Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [b]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[WPM]

Yet, you are completely incapable of presenting a coherent argument to refute it. Why should anyone take you seriously when you're just all talk and no substance? Your arguments are non-existent.

This is so true! He is full of noise, insults and avoidance.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Are you forgetting that He comes for the dead in Christ? The barley harvest.
Are you forgetting that He returns for the alive that remained, before the tribulation? The wheat harvest.

Why do you act as if those are separate events? That is ludicrous! You are clearly trying to make scripture say what you want it to say.

1 Thess 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

Paul very clearly says that the dead in Christ and those who are alive and remain will both TOGETHER be caught up at the same time to meet the Lord in the air after He descends from heaven. How in the world are you turning that into two entirely different events when that is not indicated in the text whatsoever?

Are you forgetting that He comes for the 144,000 first fruits?

Where does it say that there is a separate bodily resurrection of just the 144,000? How does that line up with what Paul taught about the order of resurrections?

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This is so true! He is full of noise, insults and avoidance.

His posts are full of one liner comments, no exegesis whatsoever, and then he declares himself the winner of the debate every time. It's hilarious! He couldn't be any more delusional if he tried. He is completely in over his head here and is oblivious to that fact.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

lol = "Before the Flood which would be the pre-tribulation rapture"

I didn't know that the rapture happened even before the flood. Never heard of the pre-flood rapture theory before. Interesting.