It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[David in NJ]

No sir. I believe the 5 wise virgins are those that are watching and ready for the coming of the Lord as we have been instructed.

The 5 foolish virgins however are those that think the Lord delays His coming and who begin to smite his fellow servants.

I think it's pretty easy to figure out who is who.

Your post earlier stated 5 raptures - if i get the opportunity i will look for it

Could be i skimmed over it fast and misunderstood the post stating 5 raptures!

 

[The Light]

Your post earlier stated 5 raptures - if i get the opportunity i will look for it

Could be i skimmed over it fast and misunderstood the post stating 5 raptures!

I believer there are two harvests. The grain harvest and the fruit harvest.

The grain harvest is made up of the dead in Christ which is the barley harvest, and the alive that remained which is the wheat harvest.

Then there are the 144,000 which are the first fruits of the fruit harvest. They are of the twelve tribes. Since the 144,000 are first fruits of the fruit harvest, we know what the harvest will be.

That's four comings of the Lord. The fifth coming of the Lord is when He returns with the armies of heaven.............Armageddon etc.

 

[David in NJ]

I believer there are two harvests. The grain harvest and the fruit harvest.

The grain harvest is made up of the dead in Christ which is the barley harvest, and the alive that remained which is the wheat harvest.

Then there are the 144,000 which are the first fruits of the fruit harvest. They are of the twelve tribes. Since the 144,000 are first fruits of the fruit harvest, we know what the harvest will be.

That's four comings of the Lord. The fifth coming of the Lord is when He returns with the armies of heaven.............Armageddon etc.

SEE, you admit to 5 raptures

Too bad you reject the words of Christ that there is only One Harvest at the End = Matt 13:37-43 & Matt 24:14

Another very sad thing is that you reject the Apostle Paul's CLEAR instruction of ONE Second Coming and place the rapture before the Resurrection which is the sin of the Serpent = twisting God's words.

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trumpet.
For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[David in NJ]

I believer there are two harvests. The grain harvest and the fruit harvest.

The grain harvest is made up of the dead in Christ which is the barley harvest, and the alive that remained which is the wheat harvest.

Then there are the 144,000 which are the first fruits of the fruit harvest. They are of the twelve tribes. Since the 144,000 are first fruits of the fruit harvest, we know what the harvest will be.

That's four comings of the Lord. The fifth coming of the Lord is when He returns with the armies of heaven.............Armageddon etc.

post 683 edited

 

[The Light]

Brother @The Light believes the 5 wise virgins represent 5 separate raptures = which is funny because it is nowhere in Scripture!!!

No sir. I believe the 5 wise virgins are those that are watching and ready for the coming of the Lord as we have been instructed.

The 5 foolish virgins however are those that think the Lord delays His coming and who begin to smite his fellow servants.

I think it's pretty easy to figure out who is who.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Because they are separate events. Why would the Word say the alive the remain?

The feasts of God are a picture of the end times.



The dead in Christ rise first. The alive remain.

Jesus returns for the alive that remain. He brings the dead in Christ with Him. The alive are caught together with them in the clouds.

The dead are in the clouds already..................them in the clouds.

It lines up perfectly.

The fathers of Israel were supposed to be the first fruits of the first harvest as they were the first ripe. Israel served Baalpeor so the Gentiles become the first harvest.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

Each man in his own order. The order is first fruits and they that are Christs at His coming.

1 Corinthians 15
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Jesus will come for the dead in Christ first as He is the first fruits of the them that slept.

Then Christ will return for the alive that remain. The first fruits of this harvest have already occurred.

Then Christ will come for the 144,000 first fruits of the 12 tribes. Then they that are Christs at His coming at the 6th seal will be raptured. We know what the first fruits are, so we know what the harvest is.

 

[WPM]

I believer there are two harvests. The grain harvest and the fruit harvest.

The grain harvest is made up of the dead in Christ which is the barley harvest, and the alive that remained which is the wheat harvest.

Then there are the 144,000 which are the first fruits of the fruit harvest. They are of the twelve tribes. Since the 144,000 are first fruits of the fruit harvest, we know what the harvest will be.

That's four comings of the Lord. The fifth coming of the Lord is when He returns with the armies of heaven.............Armageddon etc.

This is a confusing mess. Talk about butchering Scripture.

 

[rebuilder 454]

@The Light
Are you saying 1 thes 4 has two separate events?
.... and the dead and " us alive" has a major time lapse between the dead gathered and those ones alive? Two separate comings?
If so....I totally disagree

 

[WPM]

Always cries of avoiding.

Both of you guys post so much I don't have time to address everything. But if I miss any post that you really want addressed just repost. Quit crying.

I'm not sure why you would say this is extra Biblical. Is it because your Church doesn't teach the Old Testament? Maybe this will help

2 Timothy 3
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Markets getting ready to close........gotta run.

1. Show us one Scripture that teaches that "the feasts of God are a picture of the end times"?
2. Where is "the barley harvest" mentioned in the NT?
3. Where is "the wheat harvest" mentioned in the NT?
4. Where is all this jargon about "on the Feast of Trumpets, the fall harvest feast" in the NT text or in any rapture passage?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Says who? Show us one Scripture that teaches that "the feasts of God are a picture of the end times"? You seem to make this thing up as you go. You manipulate Scripture to support your error. Like the cults, you make the Bible to say whatever you want it to say.

Ahem...." firstfruits "

What do you think that word refers to?

 

[rebuilder 454]

You are a little confused so the Holy Spirit is here to help you.

Pretty hard to wiggle out of the facts.
Noah gathered preflood/ pre-WRATH
Normal life was polluted by the fallen angels cohabitating with the daughters of men.
Great Tribulation on earth WHILE Noah was building the Ark = "God said the wickedness is GREAT/ I will pour out My Wrath"
Noah SURVIVES the Great Tribulation of his day WITHOUT leaving earth = Ark carried him upon the Flood Waters

HalleluYAH for a Good Holy Spirit Fix!!!

It was Jesus that SAID normal life.
Take it up with him as it is the Bible I am leading you to go against.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Christ speaks of “the days of Noe” (plural), speaking of the days that preceded the destruction of all the wicked. He then spoke of “the day” (singular), speaking of the actual day when the wicked were wiped. This contrast between “the days” and “day” is common in Scripture and is presented in order that we can distinguish between “the lasts days” of time and “the last day” of time, that ushers in the end. The actual day that Noah entered into the ark "the flood came, and took them all away." It was therefore an individual day that God closed the door of the Ark and by doing so damned all those that were left behind. The same will occur when our ark – Christ – arrives at the second coming.

God closed the ark and the destructive floods came immediately lasting 40 days, although the water remained on the earth 150 days until the ark rested on Ararat. Jesus said, "the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all” (Luke 17:27). The Lord goes from "days" (plural) to "day" to show that he is talking of an individual day of destruction. Christ reinforces the fact that it was an individual day by also using the days/days contrast re Sodom's judgement, He emphasizes, “the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all” (v29). And then concludes, “Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed (or) apokaluptetai” (v 30).

Your model, if it is postrib rapture, has ZERO COMMERCE for believers, and NO NORMAL LIFE.
So keep refraiming that item.
That is the only way to wiggle out of what is written.
Either change it or omit it.
It does SEVERE HARM to your deal...and anyone honestly in study of the word would not do what you are doing.

 

[rebuilder 454]

@The Light says: "The dead in Christ rise first."

the LORD says: "The alive saints who are remaining get raptured AFTER the Resurrection = 100% TRUTH

@The Light says: "Jesus returns for the alive that remain." = 100% FALSE and is a COMPLETE LIE out of the mouths of men

The Bible says the dead in christ rise first.
You saying the Bible is wrong?

 

[rebuilder 454]

There is a true rapture that takes place before Noah's Rescue from WRATH.

This 'true rapture' occurred during the Great Tribulation of pre-flood/wrath.

This 'true rapture' only applied to one person as a Christophany in the OT.

Normal living.
Noah gathered DURING NORMAL LIVING.
But I know that severely hurts your deal.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Stop avoiding the obvious!

1. Where is "the barley harvest" mentioned in the NT?
2. Where is "the wheat harvest" mentioned in the NT?
3. Where is all this jargon about "on the Feast of Trumpets, the fall harvest feast" in the NT text or in any rapture passage?

It seems like you know what we know: this is an extra-biblical theory invented by man that has been foisted on the inspired text.

Wow.
You serious???
What do you think " firstfruits " is referring to???
Jesus with a sickle???
Angels telling Jesus " thrust in your sickle and reap"
Gather the wheat into the barn??????
Parable of the sower????
Tares gathered and burned????

 

[WPM]

Your model, if it is postrib rapture, has ZERO COMMERCE for believers, and NO NORMAL LIFE.
So keep refraiming that item.
That is the only way to wiggle out of what is written.
Either change it or omit it.
It does SEVERE HARM to your deal...and anyone honestly in study of the word would not do what you are doing.

Christ speaks of “the days of Noe” (plural), speaking of the days that preceded the destruction of all the wicked. He then spoke of “the day” (singular), speaking of the actual day when the wicked were wiped. This contrast between “the days” and “day” is common in Scripture and is presented in order that we can distinguish between “the lasts days” of time and “the last day” of time, that ushers in the end. The actual day that Noah entered into the ark "the flood came, and took them all away." It was therefore an individual day that God closed the door of the Ark and by doing so damned all those that were left behind. The same will occur when our ark – Christ – arrives at the second coming.

God closed the ark and the destructive floods came immediately lasting 40 days, although the water remained on the earth 150 days until the ark rested on Ararat. Jesus said, "the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all” (Luke 17:27). The Lord goes from "days" (plural) to "day" to show that he is talking of an individual day of destruction. Christ reinforces the fact that it was an individual day by also using the days/days contrast re Sodom's judgement, He emphasizes, “the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all” (v29). And then concludes, “Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed (or) apokaluptetai” (v 30).

 

[rebuilder 454]

There is a true rapture that takes place before Noah's Rescue from WRATH.

This 'true rapture' occurred during the Great Tribulation of pre-flood/wrath.

This 'true rapture' only applied to one person as a Christophany in the OT.

Is this rapture you are referring to, on white horses?

 

[WPM]

Wow.
You serious???
What do you think " firstfruits " is referring to???
Jesus with a sickle???
Angels telling Jesus " thrust in your sickle and reap"
Gather the wheat into the barn??????
Parable of the sower????
Tares gathered and burned????

Answer the questions, stop avoiding.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Christ speaks of “the days of Noe” (plural), speaking of the days that preceded the destruction of all the wicked. He then spoke of “the day” (singular), speaking of the actual day when the wicked were wiped. This contrast between “the days” and “day” is common in Scripture and is presented in order that we can distinguish between “the lasts days” of time and “the last day” of time, that ushers in the end. The actual day that Noah entered into the ark "the flood came, and took them all away." It was therefore an individual day that God closed the door of the Ark and by doing so damned all those that were left behind. The same will occur when our ark – Christ – arrives at the second coming.

God closed the ark and the destructive floods came immediately lasting 40 days, although the water remained on the earth 150 days until the ark rested on Ararat. Jesus said, "the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all” (Luke 17:27). The Lord goes from "days" (plural) to "day" to show that he is talking of an individual day of destruction. Christ reinforces the fact that it was an individual day by also using the days/days contrast re Sodom's judgement, He emphasizes, “the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all” (v29). And then concludes, “Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed (or) apokaluptetai” (v 30).

We all see the obvious.
Your unpacking of the " before the flood gathering", has the world destroyed at the coming.
The Bible has the army of the ac destroyed at the white horse coming.
There is no commerce or normal life at the white horse coming.
So your deal is way way off.

Are you totally unaware that there is no post flood gathering of Noah?????
Not a hint.
No post Sodom gathering of Lot ????
Absolutely NOTHING there.
ZERO.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Answer the questions, stop avoiding.

Lol.
Just keep thinking harvest can not possibly be depicted in the Bible through harvest.
Just keep telling yourself that.
Firstfruits
Don't investigate any of that dimension.
Wow...even harvest needs modifying in your deal.
What a straight Jacket confine the Bible is to you guys.
No revelatory. Just mental denial of components that could help you and illuminate scripture.
Thrown off the table, then celebrate throwing out illumination.