It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[Spiritual Israelite]

This is the issue: WHEN will all be made alive. That is; will receive immortality?
First is Christ, then those who are in Christ at His coming. Thinking that ALL will be immortalized at His Return, is wrong as we are clearly told that only the GT martyrs are raised back to life at that time. Revelation 20:4

That's what you think, but you are required to ignore what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 in order to come to that conclusion. You need to reconcile the scriptures instead of making one of them say what you want it to say in order to fit your interpretation of the other.

So, for all who hold to the belief of a general resurrection of the Christian dead at the glorious Return, carry on in your fixed and intransigent view, but it is a direct contradiction of scripture, is illogical and simply does not fit with the sequence of events as given in Revelation. Also as described in Daniel 7:9-10, a parenthetical Prophecy, paralleled by Revelation 20:11-15

LOL. You do not accept what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23. You have chosen to ignore that and cherry pick the scriptures that you think support your view instead of reconciling all scripture without causing contradictions. And we're supposed to take this seriously?

The AMill theory is debunked by 1 Cor 15:24, Jesus Returns as King over the world, as many Prophesies describe, He will reign for a thousand years; then hand the Kingdom to the Father God,

LOL. This is ludicrous. In no way, shape or form does 1 Cor 15:24 support your view. Did you even read it? It says He will deliver the kingdom that He had been reigning over to the Father at that point. Once again, you are trying to make scripture say what you want it to say instead of accepting what it actually says.

 

[The Light]

Once again, you are trying to make scripture say what you want it to say instead of accepting what it actually says.

Are you trying to make a joke hear? Is this sarcasm?

Anyone that is Amil cannot accept what is written.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Are you trying to make a joke hear? Is this sarcasm?

Not at all.

Anyone that is Amil cannot accept what is written.

That's a lie. Why are you even here? You have nothing to offer of substance, obviously.

 

[Keraz]

That's what you think, but you are required to ignore what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 in order to come to that conclusion. You need to reconcile the scriptures instead of making one of them say what you want it to say in order to fit your interpretation of the other.

1 Cor 15:22-23, never says 'all' will be resurrected when Christ Returns. To think it does, is to contradict Revelation 20:4-5.
Being wrong in this matter, leads to error in other beliefs. Like AMill and a rapture to heaven.

The intransigent and immoveable way some people grip onto their wrong beliefs, theories which contradict plainly stated scripture, is very unfortunate and may cause some trauma as things happen.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

1 Cor 15:22-23, never says 'all' will be resurrected when Christ Returns.

Yes, it absolutely does.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

In verse 22 it says those in Christ will ALL be made alive (resurrected). Then Paul indicates when that will happen. At His second coming. Very simple. But, you don't accept what is clearly taught there.

Tell me, what is the coming hour at which point all of the dead will be resurrected if not the hour when Christ returns?
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

To think it does, is to contradict Revelation 20:4-5.

Your interpretation of Revelation 20:4-5 contradicts 1 Corinthians 15:22-23. Your approach to interpreting scripture is ridiculous. You should establish the foundation of your doctrine on clear, straightforward scripture like 1 Cor 15:22-23 and then use that foundation to help interpret more difficult passages found in highly symbolic books like Daniel and Revelation.

Being wrong in this matter, leads to error in other beliefs. Like AMill and a rapture to heaven.

You are wrong in this matter and you have proven that you are right that it leads to error in some of your other beliefs as well.

The intransigent and immoveable way some people grip onto their wrong beliefs, theories which contradict plainly stated scripture, is very unfortunate and may cause some trauma as things happen.

You would know since that is exactly what you do.

 

[rebuilder 454]

How many unbelievers survived the flood? None. How many unbelievers survived in Sodom? None. Jesus said that's how it will be when He comes (Matt 24:39, Luke 17:30), but you completely ignore that. Your doctrine is based only on your imagination and not on scripture.

Nope.
The unbelievers in the satanic army are killed.
Not all unbelievers on the planet.

Oh, wait, I get it, since you are pushing amil, you need the GWTjudgement to be placed at the second coming,Correct?
THAT IS WHY YOU NEED THE ENTIRE PLANET EXTERMINATED OF UNBELIEVING HUMANS at his coming...CORRECT?

 

[Keraz]

Tell me, what is the coming hour at which point all of the dead will be resurrected if not the hour when Christ returns?

At the Last Trumpet blast, ALL the dead will stand before God in Judgment. Some to Eternal life, most to annihilation. This does NOT happen at the glorious Return, but a thousand years later.
John 5:28-29, is a reiteration of the GWT Judgment; Revelation 20:11-15

I repeat; The ONLY dead people to be brought back to life when Jesus Returns, will be the martyrs killed for their faith during the 42 month reign of the 'beast'. Thinking otherwise is a direct rejection of Revelation 20:4-5

 

[The Light]

. Why are you even here? You have nothing to offer of substance, obviously.

Some here only care about their fallen doctrine birthed by unbelieving men. The goal doesn't seem to be truth, but doctrine.
We are told to watch and be ready as He will come in an hour that we think not. Some don't believe that and find the need to lead others from the truth. Some are sheep dogs, some are wolves. Some are wise virgins; some are foolish virgins.

 

[David in NJ]

Some here only care about their fallen doctrine birthed by unbelieving men. The goal doesn't seem to be truth, but doctrine.
We are told to watch and be ready as He will come in an hour that we think not. Some don't believe that and find the need to lead others from the truth. Some are sheep dogs, some are wolves. Some are wise virgins; some are foolish virgins.

We are told to watch and be ready as He will come in an hour that we think not

And why does the LORD say this to us???

There is a LENGTH of TIME that GOD has allotted to man BEFORE His Return, 2,000+ years

How long is your life compared to that? about an hour!!!

So, we BETTER be watching unless this happens to you:

“But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

 

[rebuilder 454]

Amil is about the worst attempt at end times I have ever seen.
Miles and miles apart from what I have gleaned from over 40 years in God's word.

In the pre and post debate I am seeing a huge increase in posrtrib rapture teachers on YouTube.
I watch most of them. One in particular centers EVERYTHING on "day of the Lord"
( which , points to their "Truth" of only one coming)

Since "one coming" is debunked DIRECTLY by Jesus , and indirectly by the Bible,.... ahem...THE ENTIRE DEAL FALLS APART.

IOW....we now have several "DAYS OF THE LORD"
Lol

 

[WPM]

Amil is about the worst attempt at end times I have ever seen.
Miles and miles apart from what I have gleaned from over 40 years in God's word.

In the pre and post debate I am seeing a huge increase in posrtrib rapture teachers on YouTube.
I watch most of them. One in particular centers EVERYTHING on "day of the Lord"
( which , points to their "Truth" of only one coming)

Since "one coming" is debunked DIRECTLY by Jesus , and indirectly by the Bible,.... ahem...THE ENTIRE DEAL FALLS APART.

IOW....we now have several "DAYS OF THE LORD"
Lol

All noise. Zero Scripture. That sums up Pretrib!

 

[WPM]

Some here only care about their fallen doctrine birthed by unbelieving men. The goal doesn't seem to be truth, but doctrine.
We are told to watch and be ready as He will come in an hour that we think not. Some don't believe that and find the need to lead others from the truth. Some are sheep dogs, some are wolves. Some are wise virgins; some are foolish virgins.

All noise. Zero Scripture. That sums up Pretrib!

 

[rebuilder 454]

And why does the LORD say this to us???

There is a LENGTH of TIME that GOD has allotted to man BEFORE His Return, 2,000+ years

How long is your life compared to that? about an hour!!!

So, we BETTER be watching unless this happens to you:

“But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Postrib doctrine has the return " figured out" down to a month or so.
That alone tells you and all postribbers an imminent coming is nothing to promote or pay any attention to. .
It would be ridiculous for any postribber to get ready. .
They think it is raw faith and canned goods that will save them,, and they see Jesus coming after the flood and after Sodom burns to assess.
Zero watching for Him. They watch for the other Jesus on a white horse while lampooning the wise virgins for vigilantly standing watch for the groom coming with no horse at all.

Oh the irony

 

[rebuilder 454]

All noise. Zero Scripture. That sums up Pretrib!

Your last 2 posts have zero scripture.

Sums up your deal huh?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Nope.
The unbelievers in the satanic army are killed.
Not all unbelievers on the planet.

You're not addressing what I said. Are you afraid to do so? No unbelievers survived the flood. No unbelievers survived in Sodom. Jesus said it will be just like that when He comes. And you ignore that. You don't want to address that.

Oh, wait, I get it, since you are pushing amil, you need the GWTjudgement to be placed at the second coming,Correct?
THAT IS WHY YOU NEED THE ENTIRE PLANET EXTERMINATED OF UNBELIEVING HUMANS at his coming...CORRECT?

I don't need those things to happen, scripture says they will happen. Have you never read Matthew 25:31-46? That places the judgment at His second coming. Have you never read 2 Peter 3:10-12? How can anyone survive that? But, passages like those are apparently missing from your Bible.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your last 2 posts have zero scripture.

Sums up your deal huh?

LOL. Compared to ALL of your posts having zero scripture. No exegesis from you ever. You just make all kinds of claims while doing absolutely NOTHING to back them up.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Postrib doctrine has the return " figured out" down to a month or so.
That alone tells you and all postribbers an imminent coming is nothing to promote or pay any attention to. .
It would be ridiculous for any postribber to get ready. .
They think it is raw faith and canned goods that will save them,, and they see Jesus coming after the flood and after Sodom burns to assess.
Zero watching for Him. They watch for the other Jesus on a white horse while lampooning the wise virgins for vigilantly standing watch for the groom coming with no horse at all.

Oh the irony

LOL. Nothing but word salad from you. I guess we can assume you are just incapable of making coherent arguments? That appears to be the case.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Amil is about the worst attempt at end times I have ever seen.
Miles and miles apart from what I have gleaned from over 40 years in God's word.

All that time studying God's word and you still know nothing. That's sad. You still can't even use scripture to back up your claims. Just a bunch of one liners from you and nothing more. You can't be taken seriously. You are in over your head here. You are not able to articulate a coherent argument at all, yet you expect people to take your arguments seriously? It's not going to happen.

 

[David in NJ]

Postrib doctrine has the return " figured out" down to a month or so.
That alone tells you and all postribbers an imminent coming is nothing to promote or pay any attention to. .
It would be ridiculous for any postribber to get ready. .
They think it is raw faith and canned goods that will save them,, and they see Jesus coming after the flood and after Sodom burns to assess.
Zero watching for Him. They watch for the other Jesus on a white horse while lampooning the wise virgins for vigilantly standing watch for the groom coming with no horse at all.

Oh the irony

Good Morning Brother

Postrib doctrine has the return " figured out" down to a month or so.

Every pre and post-tribber who picks a date is not speaking Truth

Every pre-tribber who said and says "anyday now" is not speaking Truth

“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

23“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you beforehand.

26“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

The Coming of the Son of Man​

29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Some here only care about their fallen doctrine birthed by unbelieving men. The goal doesn't seem to be truth, but doctrine.

True doctrine matters. Your doctrine is false. Your arguments are extremely weak and very easy to refute. That's why I wonder why you're even here. You're not sharing truth. Your beliefs are false. So, you have nothing of value to offer here as far as I can see.

We are told to watch and be ready as He will come in an hour that we think not.

Yes, but watch for what? And how do we make ourselves ready? Jesus told us what to watch for and how to be ready.

Matthew 24:4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.

Matthew 24:9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Matthew 24:23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

Matthew 24:42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him. 45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luke 21:33 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

The way in which we are to watch and be ready for His return is by watching out that we are not deceived and making sure we are going about His business so that we are ready for His return instead of being among those who are not ready and will be assigned to "a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.".