It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[The Light]

All noise. Zero Scripture. That sums up Pretrib!

LOL. The only card you got is your cries of avoidance, which are nonsense

The reason that I have not completely dismantled your OP is that it is so long and drawn out. In the past, when I have used scripture to prove you wrong, point by point............YOU NEVER RESPOND. You can't respond. The only thing you got is cries of avoidance.

If you would like me to use scripture to disprove your nonsense, respond with your best point as to why there is no pretrib rapture and I will prove you wrong. Simple enough.

 

[WPM]

Your last 2 posts have zero scripture.

Sums up your deal huh?

I am responding to your scriptural content - zero. There is nothing to refute. Now, will you address the Op?

 

[WPM]

LOL. The only card you got is your cries of avoidance, which are nonsense

The reason that I have not completely dismantled your OP is that it is so long and drawn out. In the past, when I have used scripture to prove you wrong, point by point............YOU NEVER RESPOND. You can't respond. The only thing you got is cries of avoidance.

If you would like me to use scripture to disprove your nonsense, respond with your best point as to why there is no pretrib rapture and I will prove you wrong. Simple enough.

I always respond. Amils always respond. Premils avoid post after post. That can be seen on every thread the subject comes up. The only tactic you have is to constantly avoid, insult and then run.

You have nothing. Your doctrine is dead. It just needs buried.

Address the Op. It exposes your error.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

At the Last Trumpet blast, ALL the dead will stand before God in Judgment. Some to Eternal life, most to annihilation. This does NOT happen at the glorious Return, but a thousand years later.

Jesus Himself taught otherwise. He said the judgment will take place at His second coming which will come at the end of the age (Matthew 13:36-43, Matthew 13:47-50, Matthew 25:31-46).

John 5:28-29, is a reiteration of the GWT Judgment; Revelation 20:11-15

Yes, it is, but you have the timing of it completely wrong. Jesus said ALL of the dead will be resurrected at the same time, but you have some of the dead being resurrected 1,000+ years before that which contradicts what Jesus taught. Not that you care about that. You will just change John 5:28-29 to say what you want it to say just like you change many scriptures to say what you want them to say based on your interpretation of Revelation 20.

I repeat; The ONLY dead people to be brought back to life when Jesus Returns, will be the martyrs killed for their faith during the 42 month reign of the 'beast'. Thinking otherwise is a direct rejection of Revelation 20:4-5

Wrong. Thinking otherwise is a direct rejection of 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 and John 5:28-29 which indicate that ALL dead believers will be resurrected at the same time. You need to adjust your understanding of Revelation 20:4-5 accordingly. You also ignore that scripture teaches that Jesus's resurrection was the first resurrection (Acts 26:23, 1 Cor 15:20, Col 1:18, Rev 1:5) and we all have part in His resurrection spiritually (Col 2:12-13, Eph 2:4-6, Romans 6:9-11).

Revelation 20:6 says that the second death has no power over those who have part in the first resurrection. So, is it your view that only "the martyrs killed for their faith during the 42 month reign of the 'beast'" will avoid the second death?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LOL. The only card you got is your cries of avoidance, which are nonsense

The reason that I have not completely dismantled your OP is that it is so long and drawn out. In the past, when I have used scripture to prove you wrong, point by point............YOU NEVER RESPOND. You can't respond. The only thing you got is cries of avoidance.

If you would like me to use scripture to disprove your nonsense, respond with your best point as to why there is no pretrib rapture and I will prove you wrong. Simple enough.

You are full of excuses. Just pick any point he made in the OP or anywhere else in the thread and prove it wrong. Let's see it. I'm tired of only seeing your words without any scripture to back them up.

 

[The Light]

True doctrine matters. Your doctrine is false. Your arguments are extremely weak and very easy to refute. That's why I wonder why you're even here. You're not sharing truth. Your beliefs are false. So, you have nothing of value to offer here as far as I can see.

In your mind you think you are refuting. How can you possibly refute anything when your doctrine has the Church on earth during the wrath of God. You can claim otherwise, but you have the Church on earth during the 7th seal. The 7th seal is the Day of the Lord, the day of His wrath.

Yes, but watch for what? And how do we make ourselves ready? Jesus told us what to watch for and how to be ready.

Matthew 24:4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.

Matthew 24:9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Matthew 24:23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

Jesus it talking to the Jews.

Matthew 10
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 24:42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

How can Jesus come in an hour that you don't expect Him if you have Him coming AT THE VERY END OF THE WRATH OF GOD. Makes no sense.

45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’

We are watching for Him to come soon. You think He will come at the end of wrath.

49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Hmmm.

Luke 21:33 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

The way in which we are to watch and be ready for His return is by watching out that we are not deceived and making sure we are going about His business so that we are ready for His return instead of being among those who are not ready and will be assigned to "a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.".

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[The Light]

You are full of excuses. Just pick any point he made in the OP or anywhere else in the thread and prove it wrong. Let's see it. I'm tired of only seeing your words without any scripture to back them up.

Right. Why don't I pick ONE of the long posts that he has made before that I dismantled point by point.................AND HE WAS UNABLE TO RESPOND.

I don't feel like going all his nonsense if he will not respond when I am done..................OTHER THAN TO CLAIM HIS POST WAS AVOIDED.

 

[WPM]

In your mind you think you are refuting. How can you possibly refute anything when your doctrine has the Church on earth during the wrath of God. You can claim otherwise, but you have the Church on earth during the 7th seal. The 7th seal is the Day of the Lord, the day of His wrath.


Jesus it talking to the Jews.

Matthew 10
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


How can Jesus come in an hour that you don't expect Him if you have Him coming AT THE VERY END OF THE WRATH OF GOD. Makes no sense.


We are watching for Him to come soon. You think He will come at the end of wrath.


Hmmm.


Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The 7th seal is after the one and only coming of Christ. Stop forcing your beliefs on Amil.

In Luke 21:33-36, Christ declares: “Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares [Gr. aifnídios meaning suddenly]. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”

Christ is exhorting His listeners here to be ready for His return, and warning that He will pour out His wrath upon all mankind who are not prepared, ready and rescued. This is the time when the heavens and the earth shall pass away.

The phrase "all these things" (that Pretribbers keep getting tripped up on every time this is discussed) is not everything the Left Behind novels have taught them (including some imaginary future 7-year trib), it is talking about the total destruction and removal of the wicked and current corrupted creation. Read what the text is actually saying.

The words of Christ in Luke 21:33-36 agree with 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:7 and prove the coming of Christ is final and climactic. It sees the rescue of all the elect and the sudden destruction of all the wicked. It ushers in the end of the world. The escape is indeed the catching away that occurs before the wrath of God is poured out when Jesus comes, when heaven and earth pass away, when creation is regenerated and all the wicked are destroyed.

 

[WPM]

Right. Why don't I pick ONE of the long posts that he has made before that I dismantled point by point.................AND HE WAS UNABLE TO RESPOND.

I don't feel like going all his nonsense if he will not respond when I am done..................OTHER THAN TO CLAIM HIS POST WAS AVOIDED.

LOL. What are you scared of? Take one point or one Scripture and discuss. You will not because you cannot. Your beliefs have been repeatedly refuted here. You have nothing to bring to the table.

 

[WPM]

You are full of excuses. Just pick any point he made in the OP or anywhere else in the thread and prove it wrong. Let's see it. I'm tired of only seeing your words without any scripture to back them up.

Bro, they have nothing. If they had something they would bring it to the table. Pretrib is lying in pieces.

 

[The Light]

LOL. What are you scared of? Take one point or one Scripture and discuss. You will not because you cannot. Your beliefs have been repeatedly refuted here. You have nothing to bring to the table.

LOL. Scared? LOL.

I have wasted too much time dealing with your unscriptural nonsense. You find the need to change the scripture because the scripture as written proves you are wrong.

I will be happy to address anything you present that is not a long cut and paste with 1000 points in it that are nonsense. The reason is because you never respond to these posts after I address them and then run around like kid and claim avoidance.

I remember the last time you wanted to go toe to toe with scripture and that blew up in your face in a hurry and you ran and hid.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In your mind you think you are refuting. How can you possibly refute anything when your doctrine has the Church on earth during the wrath of God. You can claim otherwise, but you have the Church on earth during the 7th seal. The 7th seal is the Day of the Lord, the day of His wrath.

Why do you keep misrepresenting my view? That does nothing but make you look dishonest and make it look like you can't support your own view, so you have to resort to misrepresenting my view instead.

My doctrine does NOT have the church on earth during the wrath that Paul said we are not appointed to (1 Thess 5:9) which is described in passages like 1 Thess 5:2-3, 2 Thess 1:7-9, Luke 21:33-36, 2 Peter 3:10-12 and Revelation 19:11-21.

My doctrine does NOT have the church on earth during the 7th seal. Your misrepresentation of my view says it all about you. You're not able to debate honestly. That shows that you don't have any confidence in your own view, so you resort to misrepresenting mine out of desperation.

Jesus it talking to the Jews.

Matthew 10
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Nonsense. Him saying that many will turn away from the faith and increased deception and wickedness before His coming at the end of the age is no different than Paul saying there will be a mass falling away from the faith before His second coming (2 Thess 2:1-3).

How can Jesus come in an hour that you don't expect Him if you have Him coming AT THE VERY END OF THE WRATH OF GOD. Makes no sense.

Your understanding of the wrath of God is flawed. When Paul said we are not appointed to God's wrath in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, he was referring to this that he wrote about just before that:

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

That is the wrath that will come down on the day Jesus returns. No unbeliever will escape it, according to Paul, which he also indicated in 2 Thess 1:7-10. We believers, on the other hand, will escape it because we will be changed and caught up to meet the Lord in the air when He comes rather than being left on earth to experience God's wrath.

We can confirm that no unbelievers will escape that wrath by reading Peter's account of what will happen on that day.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

We are watching for Him to come soon. You think He will come at the end of wrath.

Wrong. I expect Him to come soon, also. And I do NOT think He will come at the end of wrath. You do yourself no favors by misrepresenting my view repeatedly. It makes you look like a liar, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are just very ignorant and have terrible reading comprehension skills since I've already explained my view to you several times before and you still misrepresent my view.

I do not think He will come at the end of wrath, I believe He will take out His wrath on all unbelievers on the day when He comes. That is what scripture teaches.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Hmmm.

This was in response to my having quoted Matthew 24:49-51. What does this response mean?

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

What are "all these things" that Jesus referred to there? Did you look at the context?

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The context here is in relation to escaping the wrath that will "come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth" when Jesus returns. It will result in heaven and earth passing away. This passage lines up with other passages like 1 Thess 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-12 which talk about His wrath coming down on the entire earth on the day He returns. Peter also related the passing away of heaven and earth with the unexpected day of Christ's return just like Jesus Himself did. So, when you actually look at the verse in context, you should see that Luke 21:36 supports Amil and not Premil.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LOL. Scared? LOL.

I have wasted too much time dealing with your unscriptural nonsense. You find the need to change the scripture because the scripture as written proves you are wrong.

I will be happy to address anything you present that is not a long cut and paste with 1000 points in it that are nonsense. The reason is because you never respond to these posts after I address them and then run around like kid and claim avoidance.

I remember the last time you wanted to go toe to toe with scripture and that blew up in your face in a hurry and you ran and hid.

LOL! You are hilarious. Accusing him of hiding from your weak arguments is the biggest joke I've ever seen. All you are able to do is misrepresent our view by falsely saying that we believe the church will experience God's wrath and nonsense like that rather than actually addressing our view.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LOL. What are you scared of? Take one point or one Scripture and discuss. You will not because you cannot. Your beliefs have been repeatedly refuted here. You have nothing to bring to the table.

Exactly. We have practically begged pre-tribs to actually exegete scripture and discuss it in detail and they always refuse to do so. And the reason is because they know they cannot defend their doctrine when we actually look at scripture closely and actually look at the context.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Right. Why don't I pick ONE of the long posts that he has made before that I dismantled point by point.................AND HE WAS UNABLE TO RESPOND.

I don't feel like going all his nonsense if he will not respond when I am done..................OTHER THAN TO CLAIM HIS POST WAS AVOIDED.

LOL. You dismantled NOTHING. Your arguments are EXTREMELY WEAK. Unable to respond to your weak arguments? Please stop being so delusional.

 

[WPM]

LOL. Scared? LOL.

I have wasted too much time dealing with your unscriptural nonsense. You find the need to change the scripture because the scripture as written proves you are wrong.

I will be happy to address anything you present that is not a long cut and paste with 1000 points in it that are nonsense. The reason is because you never respond to these posts after I address them and then run around like kid and claim avoidance.

I remember the last time you wanted to go toe to toe with scripture and that blew up in your face in a hurry and you ran and hid.

More noise, more projection and more avoidance. That is all you have.

 

[The Light]

The phrase "all these things" (that Pretribbers keep getting tripped up on every time this is discussed) is not everything the Left Behind novels have taught them (including some imaginary future 7-year trib), it is talking about the total destruction and removal of the wicked and current corrupted creation. Read what the text is actually saying.

I don't believe in a 7 year tribulation. I do believe in the 70th week of Daniel which is about the people of Daniel.

The words of Christ in Luke 21:33-36 agree with 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:7 and prove the coming of Christ is final and climactic. It sees the rescue of all the elect and the sudden destruction of all the wicked. It ushers in the end of the world. The escape is indeed the catching away that occurs before the wrath of God is poured out when Jesus comes, when heaven and earth pass away, when creation is regenerated and all the wicked are destroyed.

Why do you find it necessary to merge 1 Thes 4:15 with 1 Thes 5:5-7

1 Thes 5
5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

The conversation switches from the rapture to the Day of the Lord. Two complete separate events as shown by TIMES AND SEASONS.

 

[WPM]

Why do you keep misrepresenting my view? That does nothing but make you look dishonest and make it look like you can't support your own view, so you have to resort to misrepresenting my view instead.

My doctrine does NOT have the church on earth during the wrath that Paul said we are not appointed to (1 Thess 5:9) which is described in passages like 1 Thess 5:2-3, 2 Thess 1:7-9, Luke 21:33-36, 2 Peter 3:10-12 and Revelation 19:11-21.

My doctrine does NOT have the church on earth during the 7th seal. Your misrepresentation of my view says it all about you. You're not able to debate honestly. That shows that you don't have any confidence in your own view, so you resort to misrepresenting mine out of desperation.


Nonsense. Him saying that many will turn away from the faith and increased deception and wickedness before His coming at the end of the age is no different than Paul saying there will be a mass falling away from the faith before His second coming (2 Thess 2:1-3).


Your understanding of the wrath of God is flawed. When Paul said we are not appointed to God's wrath in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, he was referring to this that he wrote about just before that:

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

That is the wrath that will come down on the day Jesus returns. No unbeliever will escape it, according to Paul, which he also indicated in 2 Thess 1:7-10. We believers, on the other hand, will escape it because we will be changed and caught up to meet the Lord in the air when He comes rather than being left on earth to experience God's wrath.

We can confirm that no unbelievers will escape that wrath by reading Peter's account of what will happen on that day.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?


Wrong. I expect Him to come soon, also. And I do NOT think He will come at the end of wrath. You do yourself no favors by misrepresenting my view repeatedly. It makes you look like a liar, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are just very ignorant and have terrible reading comprehension skills since I've already explained my view to you several times before and you still misrepresent my view.

I do not think He will come at the end of wrath, I believe He will take out His wrath on all unbelievers on the day when He comes. That is what scripture teaches.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


This was in response to my having quoted Matthew 24:49-51. What does this response mean?


What are "all these things" that Jesus referred to there? Did you look at the context?

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The context here is in relation to escaping the wrath that will "come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth" when Jesus returns. It will result in heaven and earth passing away. This passage lines up with other passages like 1 Thess 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-12 which talk about His wrath coming down on the entire earth on the day He returns. Peter also related the passing away of heaven and earth with the unexpected day of Christ's return just like Jesus Himself did. So, when you actually look at the verse in context, you should see that Luke 21:36 supports Amil and not Premil.

Exactly. It is a smokescreen to avoid dealing with the numerous holes in their position. That is why none of them can engage or exegete. To enter into detailed discussion would force them to admit they have been misled.

On top of the constant ad hominem, avoidance, and running, they habitually misrepresent Amil in order to undermine the truth.

 

[WPM]

I don't believe in a 7 year tribulation. I do believe in the 70th week of Daniel which is about the people of Daniel.

Why do you find it necessary to merge 1 Thes 4:15 with 1 Thes 5:5-7

1 Thes 5
5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

The conversation switches from the rapture to the Day of the Lord. Two complete separate events as shown by TIMES AND SEASONS.

Not so. There are no chapters in the original.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:4 confirms: “if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the [Gr. parousia] of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.”

Where is your prolonged trib here?

 

[WPM]

Why do you find it necessary to merge 1 Thes 4:15 with 1 Thes 5:5-7

1 Thes 5
5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

The conversation switches from the rapture to the Day of the Lord. Two complete separate events as shown by TIMES AND SEASONS.

How does that suggest a change of subject? Where is your intervening trib? That is ridiculous. This is simply a reflection on what the writer had just said.

This is telling us that Christians should be familiar with the detail and environment surrounding and accompanying end times and the one final future coming of Christ. That is it!

After all, the proohets had predicted this in vague detail and Jesus had laid that out in explicit detail.