dad
Well-Known Member
They don't run the nation. No a little minority is not all we need for Israel to be saved or righteous
Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture
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Ronald David Bruno
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Ekklesia is not mentioned in the Old Testament. And Jesus said he would build His church ( future tense): And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. Matt. 16:18
Not only that but Jesus is the cornerstone, He is the Rock, the first stone in the building.
I'm done!
dad
Well-Known Member
Dan 9 is precisely about Daniel's people and Jerusalem actually. I would not accuse Gabriel of being obsessed.
A remnant will be saved in the end. Nothing to do with Israel being righteous now
Nothing to do with the nation being saved or righteous
dad
Well-Known Member
Forget on high. The issue is right here on earth. He only comes here and rules at the second coming
He is not ruling the wicked nations now. The whole world lieth in wickedness.
Doesn't matter. The issue is when He comes to earth and assumes power here
Not related to wicked nations
Of course. But earth is wicked now and the nations are in rebellion. His kingdom will come one day.
It is mentioned 77 in the Greek Septuagint. Stephen takes us back to ancient Israel in the wilderness. He taught in Acts 7:36-38, “he (Moses) had shewed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years. This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. This is he, that was in the church [Gr. ekklesia] in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us.”
Stephen classifies Old Testament Israel in this text as the ekklesia (or Church or assembly or congregation). This correlates with our previous findings. No one could surely deny this. This passage shows the existence of the Church long before Pentecost. Nothing could be clearer. To deny that is to fight with Scripture.
Speaking on Acts 7:36-38, Peter Ditzel writes: “Like the New Testament ekklēsia that God called out of this world of sin, God called Israel out of Egypt. In a physical, typological way, Israel was God’s special people, physically assembled before Him.
The nation will not be saved. Only the remnant will be saved. True Israel has only ever been a remnant. It began in the OT, and was in existence when Paul wrote:
Romans 11
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
There is no such thing as "national salvation". That is another dispensational delusion and fallacious fantasy. God deals exclusively with individuals.
The remnant is comprised of individuals who have placed their trust in Christ.
And only the remnant will exist and persist to be saved in the end.
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dad
Well-Known Member
dad
Well-Known Member
All Israel will be saved, and by that time most of them will have died. So yes it will be a remnant that is all Israel at that time. They are not saved now.
Yes all Israel will be saved, the bible says so. After they believe. Now they are secular unbelievers and certainly not righteous. Your application of Dan 9 is absurd
Nothing to do with Jerusalem and Israel in Dan 9
Whenever they get saved doesn't matter. What matters is that they absolutely are not in everlasting righteousness right now. The vison in Dan 9 involves the time when it is that way.
Paul identifies and describes "all Israel". It is the remnant.
Two Israels.
Romans 9
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
1. Of Israel:
Not all Israel
The children of the flesh
Not the children of God
Not the children of the promise
Not counted for the seed
2. All Israel:
Not of Israel
Not the children of the flesh
The children of God
The children of the promise
Counted for the seed
Only one of these two Israels shall be saved.
Romans 11
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Only faithful obedient spiritual "all Israel", comprised of the believing elect beloved remnant from Israel (Romans 9:27; Romans 11:1-5,26,28), and believers from among the Gentiles (Romans 11:11), shall be saved.
Christ introduced that through the cross. I know you reject it. But, the rest of us have received it upon salvation. It is our covering.
dad
Well-Known Member
Israel is unbelieving today regardless.
"A period of seventy sets of seven has been decreed for your people and your holy city to finish their rebellion, to put an end to their sin, to atone for their guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to confirm the prophetic vision, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.
Jerusalem has no everlasting righteousness today. Israel has no everlasting righteousness today. Israel and Jerusalem are in absolute rebellion today. Israel is in sin today. There is no possibility Dan 9 is fulfilled.
dad
Well-Known Member
Address these questions that expose what you've been taught.
Do you believe that Christ “is the head of all principality and power” (Colossians 2:10)?
When are “angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him,” (1 Peter 3:22 says) now or in the age to come?
When was/does Christ become ruler over the kings of the earth, now only or also in the future (Revelation 1:5)?
When does Christ reign? After His enemies are subdued or until His enemies are subdued (1 Corinthians 15:25-28)?
1 Corinthians 15:25-28 and Ephesians 1:20-23 tells us that Christ “hath put (aorist active indicative) all things under his feet” and Hebrews 1:8 tells us that “thou hast put all things in subjection’ (aorist active indicative) under his feet.” How could anyone therefore deny He is sovereignly reigning now over His enemies now? How could anyone then relate this fulfilment to an alleged future age after the second coming?
When did/does Christ become the ruler of God’s creation” (Revelation 3:14)?
Do you believe that Christ currently has “the keys (or authority) of hell and of death” (Revelation 1:18)?
dad
Well-Known Member
You made that up. It was God through Gabriel answering a prayer about Daniel's people and Jerusalem. Nothing is fulfilled with Israel being free from sin, in everlasting righteousness etc etc.
There is a saved remnant even today. NOTHING to do with Israel as a whole being saved or righteous etc.
dad
Well-Known Member
Yes. Nothing to do with the secular nation and wicked city Jerusalem as Daniel was praying about his people.
Doesn't matter, Israel is in rebellion and Jerusalem is as Sodom. Everlasting righteousness was not brought in to say the least. Only when He returns will the survivors all get saved and the prophesy be fulfilled.
When He returns to rule. Right now the wicked rule.
When He returns
Same as above, when He gets here and subdues em
He is God in the heavens. He will come to earth to rule and destroy the wicked. He can do anything He wants He is all powerful. What He wants is for Satan to have his day here and the prophesies are clear about the end. Why do you think He slays the wicked if He is already ruling nations here, for kicks??
They kingdom COME (to earth) thy will be done, (one day) on earth as it is in heaven! Do you claim this filthy wicked world is how He wants things and that He ordered it??
You are fighting with the sacred text. It is very clear that everything and everyone is under His sovereign feet. They are under His supreme control. He opens and no man closes. He closes and no man opens. He is king of kings and Lord of lords.
Permitting man to be, do and say evil does not in any way negate Christ's current kingship. It does not negate His divine authority. It does not negate His sovereign power. He allows evil and uses it for His ultimate glory. There would have been no cross if there had never been a Fall. The greatest evil that was ever done - nailing God to a tree- ended up the greatest blessing that ever happened in history.
You are blind to His Lordship. You are blind to His kingship. You are blind to His rule over all.
You constantly dethrone Christ and exalt Satan in your teaching bringing shame on the name of our sovereign king.
Your teachers have misled you with a doctrine that has zero biblical support. Sadly, you have been left holding the baby.
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