HERESY?

[GodsGrace]

Ground already covered.

Jesus did not teach us to pray to him and said in John 4:22-23 that true worshippers worship the Father.

Regarding who I depend on for my salvation; God and his servant Jesus. Acts 3:26. You may have missed the many posts on agency. Question: Does Jesus act on his own will or that of his God?

Been away a while.
Jesus always did the will of the Father.
Both here on earth when the Logos was born as Jesus to Mary and Joseph (although Joseph was not His fatehr)
and in heaven when the Logos, known to us now as Jesus, was WITH, or IN, the Father.
Jesus said:
THY WILL BE DONE,
ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN...
Matthew 6:10

Yes, I've missed the posts on "agency", but it does not change the fact that the Trinity is an important part of
orthodox Christianity and believing Jesus is God and the Trinity are part of being a Christian.

Romans 8:1-3
1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
3For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,,,

1. Why is there now no condemnation for those who are IN CHRIST JESUS, if He is just a man as you propose?
2. How could the spirit of life IN CHRIST set us free from the law of sin and death if He is just a man?
3. How could just a man be sent as an offering for sin?

 

[GodsGrace]

Good job!

At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter whether we say Jesus or Joshua. What matter is that Jesus’ name, his entire identity, is built upon the fact that Yahweh is a God who saves. Yahweh is a God who is defined by salvation. That is the name given to Jesus by the angel and by his parents. That is the identity taken on by God in the flesh. And that is the name to which every knee shall bow in heaven, on earth, and under the earth. That is the name that every tongue will confess to be Lord. And that is the name that we as Christians are invited to carry with us every day of our lives.

Oh, I use the BLB website too. It is great for many things but that website is totally biased toward dispensationalism - big time. All but 2 of their list of "commentators" are dispenationalists. That website is basically funded by Dallas Theological Seminary that is one of many seminaries that list dispensationalism as their teaching of the end times in their "about us page." Dallas theos also have many, many other websites just for that purpose.

I don't really use the Blue Letter Bible website.
It just happened to have the written information that I wanted to link.
Sometimes links are necessary to show that you're not saying what YOU believe but what is accepted Christian theology.

I agree totally with your first paragraph.
The O.T. taught that it is GOD that saves.
Then comes Jesus and HE saves us!
It seems very easy to understand.

In a different post I just posted Romans 8:1-3
This could not be said about any man but could only apply to God.

1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
3For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,

 

[Moriah's Song]

I don't really use the Blue Letter Bible website.
It just happened to have the written information that I wanted to link.
Sometimes links are necessary to show that you're not saying what YOU believe but what is accepted Christian theology.

As I said, it is a good website as far as being able to quickly get scripture, Greek interlinked with English and Hebrew, but their choices of commentators lack a balanced unbiased line of authors to choose from. I like the Biblle Hub website the best for their unbiased line of commentators that I can go to for one verse and get various views on that one verse....@

1 Timothy 3:16 Commentaries: By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.

 

[GodsGrace]

As I said, it is a good website as far as being able to quickly get scripture, Greek interlinked with English and Hebrew, but their choices of commentators lack a balanced unbiased line of authors to choose from. I like the Biblle Hub website the best for their unbiased line of commentators that I can go to for one verse and get various views on that one verse....@

1 Timothy 3:16 Commentaries: By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.

Well, great minds think alike !
I also like the Biblehub website.
I use it for posting verses, to check out commentary when there's something I don't understand,
and for the very same reason YOU do.
:)

 

[Moriah's Song]

Well, great minds think alike !

We should frame that one!

 

[Pierac]

No born-again Christian that "understands the trinity" rejects it as an invalid doctrine....only those in denial reject it because they DO NOT UNDERSTAND IT. I understand people have difficulties explaining it but they accept it as a heart matter inspired by the Holy Spirit according to the teachings of Jesus , the apostles and NT writers....not using the word but living it in faith because we do not believe those terms that He said are contradictiory - otherwise Jesus and the Father would not be able to use the term "Holy" for either one.

Ok... Let's look at the truth... Let's see what scriptures says... and what you want it to say...

Acts 2:22 – "Jesus the Nazorean was a MAN commended to you by God with mighty deeds, wonders, and signs, which God worked through him in your midst."

Now you tell me which part of this verse is hard to understand. What is Jesus according to Peter?

1. A Godman
2. A God
3. A man

If you chose answer c, you are correct! If you chose any other answer, you need to read it again. Well, Peter probably meant something else. What? I don’t know. That must be the only verse in the New Testament that says that. Not quite.

Acts 10:40 – This MAN God raised on the third day."
It doesn’t get any simpler than this. There is no way to misunderstand this verse. Okay, let’s see if your catching on.

1. Who did God raise? That’s right, this Man!
2. Who raised this MAN? Bingo, God!

Acts 17:31 – "God has overlooked the times of ignorance, but now He demands that all people everywhere repent because He has established a day on which He will judge the world with justice through a MAN He has appointed, and He has provided confirmation for all by raising him from the dead.

1. Whom Did God appoint? A Man.
2. Who appointed this MAN? God.

Now you’re getting the hang of it.... maybe?

1 Timothy 2:5 – "For there is one God and one mediator also between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus."

1. Who is the mediator? The MAN Christ Jesus.

2. Who is he the mediator between? God and men.

He is not the mediator between himself and men, but between God and men. You can see that Jesus is not considered in the term "God."

1 Corinthians 15: 21 –"For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man"

So wait, I think you have got it now. He is a MAN anointed by God. Yessirree Bob! Hallelujah! So that’s what Peter was saying in Acts.

Acts 10:38 – "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the holy Spirit and power.

1.Who did God anoint? Jesus.

2.Who anointed Jesus? God.

It’s easy once you get the hang of it. The problem with Trinitarians is that in order to substantiate the Trinity, they have to read a passage like this and then say that Jesus is God. You can read, can’t you? It doesn’t say that Jesus is God. But you have to stick to it or your whole doctrine is ruined. So basically they end up with the following interpretation of such a simple verse

"How God anointed God with God."

Is that what you get out of it? As Isaiah pointed out earlier, the Messiah is a man anointed by YHWH. He is supposed to be a prophet from among their own kinsmen. The following is a Messianic prophecy spoken by none other than Moses.

Deuteronomy 18:18 – "And the LORD (YHWH) said to me, I will raise up for you a prophet like you FROM AMONG YOUR OWN KINSMEN, and will put my words into his mouth; he shall tell them all that I command him."

Did the Apostles know that Jesus was a MAN from among their own kinsmen? Of course they did. They quoted this verse in reference to Jesus in Acts.

Acts 3:20-22 – "And that the Lord may grant you times of refreshment and send you the Messiah already appointed for you…For Moses said; A prophet like me will the Lord (YHWH), your God raise up for you FROM AMONG YOUR OWN KINSMEN."

Wow! They did know! Of course they knew. This is what the Old Testament predicted of the Christ. Let's now look at the famous suffering servant of Isaiah 53 states:

Isaiah 53:3 – "He was spurned and avoided by men, a MAN of suffering."

The Apostle Matthew quotes Isaiah 53 in Matthew 8:17. Peter quotes Isaiah 53 in 1 Peter 2:22-24. Isaiah 53 is quoted all over the place in the New Testament by all the Apostles. Of course they knew.

Now other things are starting to make sense. Trinitarians claim that since Jesus is fully God at all times, that he is omniscient. That’s a big word. It means all knowing. It means Jesus knows everything about everything. But that’s not what these simple verses say. Revelation’s opening verse states;

Rev. 1:1 – "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him."

1.Whom did God give a revelation to? Jesus.

2.Who gave Jesus a revelation? God.

3.Did Jesus know everything? Nope.

4.Does it make sense to you that God would have to give himself a revelation? Nope.

Mark 13:32 – "But of that hour, no one knows, neither the angels in heaven, NOR THE SON, but only the Father."

Do I need to say anything about the verse above? Does Jesus know the hour? Nope. Then he is not omniscient.

Only two more easy verses. This is Jesus himself speaking:

John 17:3 – "Now this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ."

1.Who does Jesus consider the first "you" to be? The ONLY true God.

2.Does Jesus think that he himself is that "you"? Not according to this verse.

3.Who sent Jesus? The only true God.

If Jesus did not consider himself to be God, why should we? Jesus always pointed us to the one who is greater than he, The God of Abraham. Here is probably the simplest verse in the whole Bible on this matter.

Mark 10:18 – "Jesus answered him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone."

If you have trouble with this one, I do not think there is much else I can say. Does this sound to you like Jesus believes himself to be God?

So... Did you pass the biblical test???
I think not!
Paul

 

[Moriah's Song]

Ok... Let's look at the truth... Let's see what scriptures says

Jhn 8:42...Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.

Jhn 8:53...Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you claim to be?"

Jhn 8:54..Jesus answered, "If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing; it is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say that he is your God.

Jhn 8:55...But you have not known him; I know him. If I said, I do not know him, I should be a liar like you; but I do know him and I keep his word.

Jhn 8:56...Your father Abraham rejoiced that he was to see my day; he saw it and was glad."

Jhn 8:57...The Jews then said to him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?"

Jhn 8:58...Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."

Jhn 8:59...So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.​

The claim of Jesus that "before Abraham was, I am" is one evidence of His preexistence. The instant negative reaction of the Jews to His statement makes it apparent that to accept it was to acknowledge the uniqueness of His person. This they were not prepared to do, for then they would have had to worship Him as God.

In one sense you do not have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian, but in another sense you do. The Bible does not tell us that we must believe in the Trinity in order to become saved; that is, to become a Christian. On the other hand, true Christians will end up believing in the Trinity because it is the proper teaching concerning God’s nature that has been revealed to us in Scripture. So, though someone may not understand the Trinity when he or she becomes a Christian, eventually he will end up believing in it because he’s a Christian.

The doctrine of the Trinity is the proper biblical teaching concerning the nature of God. It is one of the defining elements of the Christian faith. The Trinity, like the deity of Christ (John 8:24; John 1:1, 14; Colossians 2:9), Christ’s physical resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:14, 17), and justification by faith alone in Christ alone (Romans 3:28; 4:1-5; 5:1; Galatians 2:21), are among the essential doctrines of the Christian faith. To deny any of these is to deny what makes Christianity Christian. But, I want to make it clear that we believe these things because they are true and because the Holy Spirit who indwells Christians bears witness of truth (John 14:26; 15:26).

It is not believing in the Trinity that makes us Christian. Rather, it is being a Christian (and being indwelt by the Holy Spirit) that enables us to believe in the Trinity. So, in one sense it’s not a requirement to affirm the doctrines the Trinity in order to become saved. However, the true Christian will not deny the doctrine of the Trinity because the Holy Spirit will bear witness of truth (John 15:26) in the Trinity as true. This would mean that anyone who claims to be a Christian but openly and continually rejects the doctrine of the Trinity, is probably not truly saved.

When Jesus uses the term, "Truly, truly, I say to you" He is declaring that "what I am about to say to you is absolute truth." So when Jesus said "before Abraham, I am," He did not say "I was before Abraham" because if he had, it would have meant that He was reincarnated. Had Jesus said, "I will be before Abraham" it would have meant that Jesus had never existed before Abraham. History shows that Abraham existed approximately 2,000 years before the birth of Jesus. Since Jesus made His claim that He was before, after, and in the future concerning Abraham, the claim "I am" can only be understood as "I am always in time, yesterday, today, and tomorrow as I am eternal."


CAN YOU MAKE THAT CLAIM? I don't think so. Had Jesus not been truthful about His claim of being the one and only "I am" He would have been a liar and therefore, was not the true Messiah.

 

[Pierac]

Jhn 8:42...Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.

Jhn 8:53...Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you claim to be?"

Jhn 8:54..Jesus answered, "If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing; it is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say that he is your God.

Jhn 8:55...But you have not known him; I know him. If I said, I do not know him, I should be a liar like you; but I do know him and I keep his word.

Jhn 8:56...Your father Abraham rejoiced that he was to see my day; he saw it and was glad."

Jhn 8:57...The Jews then said to him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?"

Jhn 8:58...Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."

Jhn 8:59...So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.​

The claim of Jesus that "before Abraham was, I am" is one evidence of His preexistence. The instant negative reaction of the Jews to His statement makes it apparent that to accept it was to acknowledge the uniqueness of His person. This they were not prepared to do, for then they would have had to worship Him as God.

In one sense you do not have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian, but in another sense you do. The Bible does not tell us that we must believe in the Trinity in order to become saved; that is, to become a Christian. On the other hand, true Christians will end up believing in the Trinity because it is the proper teaching concerning God’s nature that has been revealed to us in Scripture. So, though someone may not understand the Trinity when he or she becomes a Christian, eventually he will end up believing in it because he’s a Christian.

The doctrine of the Trinity is the proper biblical teaching concerning the nature of God. It is one of the defining elements of the Christian faith. The Trinity, like the deity of Christ (John 8:24; John 1:1, 14; Colossians 2:9), Christ’s physical resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:14, 17), and justification by faith alone in Christ alone (Romans 3:28; 4:1-5; 5:1; Galatians 2:21), are among the essential doctrines of the Christian faith. To deny any of these is to deny what makes Christianity Christian. But, I want to make it clear that we believe these things because they are true and because the Holy Spirit who indwells Christians bears witness of truth (John 14:26; 15:26).

It is not believing in the Trinity that makes us Christian. Rather, it is being a Christian (and being indwelt by the Holy Spirit) that enables us to believe in the Trinity. So, in one sense it’s not a requirement to affirm the doctrines the Trinity in order to become saved. However, the true Christian will not deny the doctrine of the Trinity because the Holy Spirit will bear witness of truth (John 15:26) in the Trinity as true. This would mean that anyone who claims to be a Christian but openly and continually rejects the doctrine of the Trinity, is probably not truly saved.

When Jesus uses the term, "Truly, truly, I say to you" He is declaring that "what I am about to say to you is absolute truth." So when Jesus said "before Abraham, I am," He did not say "I was before Abraham" because if he had, it would have meant that He was reincarnated. Had Jesus said, "I will be before Abraham" it would have meant that Jesus had never existed before Abraham. History shows that Abraham existed approximately 2,000 years before the birth of Jesus. Since Jesus made His claim that He was before, after, and in the future concerning Abraham, the claim "I am" can only be understood as "I am always in time, yesterday, today, and tomorrow as I am eternal."


CAN YOU MAKE THAT CLAIM? I don't think so. Had Jesus not been truthful about His claim of being the one and only "I am" He would have been a liar and therefore, was not the true Messiah.

I Am
There has been quite a bit of discussion on John 8:58. What happened to this verse as to confuse so many? Let's start in Exodus.

KJV Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Now we shall read the same verse from the Greek Septuagint

Septuagint Exo 3:14 και ειπεν ο θεος προς μωυσην [εγω ειμι ο ων] και ειπεν ουτως ερεις τοις υιοις ισραηλ [ο ων] απεσταλκεν με προς υμας
Note the two separate Greek words used for 'am'

Concordant Literal Version Exo 3:14 Then Elohim spoke to Moses: I shall come to be just as I am coming to be. And He said: Thus shall you say to the sons of Israel, I-Shall-Come-to-Be has sent me to you.
Now when translated literally you get a whole different look. What happened to the other I am's?

The Hebrew Bible uses the word (hâyâh H1961) in the place of "Am" which is a verb meaning to exist, to be.
Check the Strongs' number.

Clearly Jesus did not say (εγω ειμι ο ων) nor did he state (ο ων), in John 8:58. Jesus spoke the words (εγω ειμι) just like other people in the bible who are not God. So just what was Jesus saying?

But what about the great "I Am him" statement of Jesus? Especially that classic one in John 8:58 where Jesus says, "Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born I am"?

You say surely here Jesus makes the same claim for himself that Jehovah God made back in Exodus 3 where the LORD says to Moses at the burning Bush "I Am Who I Am." Surely Jesus is claiming to be the I AM of the Old Testament as Trinitarian belief asserts?

Now here is something very obvious that they never told you in church. This expression from Jesus' lips "I am" (Greek ego eimi) occurs throughout the Gospel of John and in no other text in John can it mean I AM, the God of the Old Testament.

Go back to John 4:25-26 for instance. The woman at the well said to Jesus, "I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ); when that one comes, he will declare all things to us." And Jesus said to her, "I who speak with you am he." You will notice that in most Bibles that word he is in italics. This means that the translators have correctly supplied a word in English that is not in the Greek but that nevertheless makes the intended sense quite clear. Here Jesus says to the woman - in the context of her question about the Messiah - that he is the Messiah, the Christ. "I who speak to you am he." In the Greek it reads ego eimi. Jesus simply says I am he, the Messiah. Definitely not “I am is the one speaking to you!”

In John 9 Jesus heals the blind man. Is this really the beggar who used to sit groping in the dark? Some people said, "Yes, it's him all right." Other said, "No, he just looks like him." But the beggar says, " ego eimi!" And the translators have no problem writing, "I am the one." So why aren't the translators consistent? Why not capitalize what this man says as I AM? Because it is clear that he is not claiming to be the God of the Old Testament. Saying "I am" (ego eimi) does not make somebody God in the Bible!

What Jesus is saying is simply “Before Abraham was born, I am he,” that is, "I am the Messiah."

Notice the context in John 8:56 where Jesus says, "Abraham rejoiced to see my day." By faith Abraham looked forward and saw the coming Messiah before he came in history. He believed the promise that God would send the Promised One. On the other hand these Jews did not believe that Jesus was their Messiah. They were claiming to be Abraham's descendents. Jesus said that this was impossible for they did not recognize him as their Messiah. But Jesus asserts that even before Abraham was born, he is the One who was always in God's plan. This Abraham believe and saw. The Messiah preexisted in God's plan and therefore in Abraham's believing mind, because he trusted the promise of God. Jesus positively did not say, before Abraham was, I was." Also, Jesus did not say, “Before Abraham was, I AM WHAT I AM."

The conclusion is inevitable. Jesus’ claim "Before Abraham was born, I am he" is the straightforward claim that he is the long promised one, the Messiah, the One in question. Jesus is the Savior in God's promise even before Abraham was born.

Glad I can help clear up the mess you made of the end of John chapter 8

 

[Enoch111]

What Jesus is saying is simply “Before Abraham was born, I am he,” that is, "I am the Messiah."

TOTALLY FALSE. There is no "he" in John 8:58. So when Jesus said "Before Abraham was I AM" He meant exactly that. "I AM the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob" (as noted in Exodus 3). And that is precisely why His enemies took up stones to stone Him for blasphemy. Jesus was claiming to be God.

But He did not stop there. To ensure that there was no misrepresentation by people such as yourself, He also said this: I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM [he], ye shall die in your sins. (John 8:24) The King James translators failed to do their job here and capitalize "I AM" without adding "he". Anyone who rejects the deity of Christ will die in his or her sins!

 

[Aunty Jane]

Anyone who rejects the deity of Christ will die in his or her sins!

That is what you accept as truth.....but my studies reveal that those who believe that Christ is God, commit blasphemy. (Exodus 20:3)
We need to understand that the 'divinity' of Christ does not 'deify' him. It makes him God-like, originating from God...but it does not make him God Almighty....or even equal to him. There was no trinity in Judaism.....and Jesus was Jewish. He never once mentioned a trinity.

No Jew could ever believe that the Messiah was God incarnate......even claiming to be God's son was enough to charge him with blasphemy. (John 10:30-36) But Jesus had to die as an innocent man. If he had claimed to be God, they would have had the legal right to put him to death.

Since Jesus never once said that he was God, what makes you think that squeezing the trinity into scripture that was written by Jews, would be valid...? They would never have believed such a thing...!

 

[Taken]

If Jesus did not consider himself to be God, why should we? Jesus always pointed us to the one who is greater than he, The God of Abraham. Here is probably the simplest verse in the whole Bible on this matter.

Mark 10:18 – "Jesus answered him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone."

If you have trouble with this one, I do not think there is much else I can say. Does this sound to you like Jesus believes himself to be God?

So... Did you pass the biblical test???
I think not!
Paul

It is not a matter of what Jesus thought....
But IS a matter of what HUMAN MEN think and believe and why.

Gods Word was IN Gods MOUTH, IS GOD, came forth OUT OF GODS MOUTH;
While remaining in Gods mouth.

Do you get the parallel to a HUMAN MAN....? Your word IS You. Your word comes forth out of your mouth, yet remains in your mouth.

Human mans word comes out of his mouth, in a verbal sound, in print as you type words....it is a representation of you....as you say my word, my belief, my testimony....your word is possessive to you alone.

Gods Word came forth out from Gods Mouth.....IN WHAT FASHION....?
Sound, Text, Written? What did Gods WORD LOOK LIKE?

Gods WORD LOOK LIKE A HUMAN MAN!
What DID God call His WORD?Follow the progression of knowledge revealed.
....a holy thing?... Yes
....Immanuel?..... Yes
....Son of man?.... Yes
....JESUS?........... Yes
....holy one......... Yes
....His Son? ........ Yes
....Son of God?.... Yes
....Oh God?......... Yes
....Christ.............Yes

WHAT Did human men SEE ?
Exactly what God SENT in a FASHION that human EYES could SEE
WHY?
Because all through the OT, God had given men VISIONS, for those men TO TEACH and PREACH to other men......AND?
AND?
The men being TAUGHT, “wanted” to ALSO SEE, a vision of God.
Men for centuries WANTED TO SEE, the unseeable SPIRIT GOD.
Men STILL do!
God PROMISED to SEND human men something to SEE.

* 2,000 years ago God fulfilled His Promise.
* Some men BELIEVED JESUS is the fulfillment of Gods Promise.
* Some men DID NOT BELIEVE JESUS is the fulfillment of Gods Promise.
* Some men 2,000 years later, still do not BELIEVE JESUS is the fulfillment of Gods Promise.
* Some men 2,000 years later, are still CONFUSED: with WILD “explanations”, of JESUS BEING BOTH....a Human Man and God. <—- NONSENSE.

* NOT ONCE was JESUS called in Scripture a “HUMAN” man.
* JESUS IS GOD, IS SPIRIT, and Scripture reveals Spirits Have to POWER to APPEAR in ANY LIKENESS they choose.
* God Himself CHOSE the WHEN, WHERE, HOW, WHY, the LIKENESS of His Words APPEARANCE....

It’s ALL in Scripture IF you follow the ORDER and WAY God reveals.

 

[Taken]

That is what you accept as truth.....but my studies reveal that those who believe that Christ is God, commit blasphemy. (Exodus 20:3)
We need to understand that the 'divinity' of Christ does not 'deify' him. It makes him God-like, originating from God...but it does not make him God Almighty....or even equal to him. There was no trinity in Judaism.....and Jesus was Jewish. He never once mentioned a trinity.

No Jew could ever believe that the Messiah was God incarnate......even claiming to be God's son was enough to charge him with blasphemy. (John 10:30-36) But Jesus had to die as an innocent man. If he had claimed to be God, they would have had the legal right to put him to death.

Since Jesus never once said that he was God, what makes you think that squeezing the trinity into scripture that was written by Jews, would be valid...? They would never have believed such a thing...!

You can go back to the Beginning, through the history of mankind, to this day.
Anywhere along the way, you can STOP in that ERA, and Believe what men of that ERA Believed and go no further.

It is a matter of knowing, First men were like what we can compare to our own little children. Look at your own children:
Infant.....did you teach them about an unseen God?
Toddler...did you teach them about an unseen God?
Pre-schooler...did you teach them about an unseen God?
Elementary.....did you teach them about an unseen God?

Get the point? Knowledge given is progressive. Bits and pieces.
Understanding always comes LONG after bits and pieces of knowledge and increase in knowledge and ability to retain the knowledge.

Moving along through history, 1,000, 2,000, 3,000, 4,000 years....
What happened during those years...? Did Every man even HEAR about God?
Moving along through history, 5,000 - 6,000 mark....
What is different?
(Travel expanded; foot, horse, rivers, buggy, ship, bus, auto, trains, planes...
(Communication; books, telegraph, telephone, internet...

Point IS, Knowledge DID increase exponentially IN Scripture. Things Unknown, Things that were Secret were REVEALED.

Secondary Point IS, babes are still be naturally born, and have to go through the bit by bit.
AND....there are GROWN ADULTS who were never exposed to the bit by bit, growing up, THUS as an ADULT, (if it be their interest), they also begin learning as a Babe.

The KNOWLEDGE IS God SENT His WORD....to EARTH, in a fashion HUMAN MEN COULD SEE...and that FASHION was the LOOK AS A HUMAN MAN.
The UNDERSTANDING IS....men can not SEE Spirits. God IS a SPIRIT.
The Understanding IS: human men, KNOWING the difference between what IS HUMAN and what IS NOT HUMAN.

Gods WORD IS God. Regardless of WHAT Gods WORD appearance was...
(For men to see).... God is still Spirit. God IS NOT A CREATED HUMAN man.

 

[Taken]

Since Jesus never once said that he was God...

In YOUR words, no Jesus never once said that he was God, in YOUR words.

In His Words yes, Jesus said He was God. The Jews who heard Him, attempted to stone Him for what He said.

I Am.
I am He.
God is “HIS” Father.
I and “MY” Father are one.
I came forth out from the Father.
Son of God.
The Christ.
The Word of God is God.

The List goes on and on.
God is eternal without beginning or ending. What comes forth out from God, comes forth while remaining IN God, IS God. Gods Breath is God. Gods Word is God. Gods Power, Gods Light, is God.

Your word IS you. It comes forth out of your mouth, yet remains in you.
Your word can be spoken, texted, typed.
Your word can be call Mrs..._____, Jane, Aunty Jane, whatever you choose.

God is not limited in WHAT appearance He chooses FOR HIS WORD to LOOK like. God expressly SENT His Word to LOOK LIKE, in the Fashion AS:
A JEWISH HUMAN MAN.

 

[Taken]

Been away a while.
Jesus always did the will of the Father.
Both here on earth when the Logos was born as Jesus to Mary and Joseph (although Joseph was not His father)

Actually....it is important to KNOW....
Mary was Jesus’ LEGAL Mother, according to MANS LAW.
Joseph was Jesus’ LEGAL Father, according to MANS LAW.
God IS ETERNAL. Does Not REPRODUCE.

Joseph was LEGALLY via birth descent, OF THE HOUSE OF DAVID.
ONLY a LEGAL offspring of king David, has the LAWFUL authority to sit ON king David’s (everlasting) Throne.
Jesus HAD to be a LEGAL offspring of king David, (Of the House of David), to Legally sit on king David’s Throne.

When Mary married Joesph, Mary BY marriage became legally also of the House of David....their LEGAL offspring....JESUS....was Lawfully (according to mans Law) registered in the taxing Census, as Husband, Wife & offspring, Jesus.
Man’s Law ~ fulfilled.

Jesus fulfilled the LAW (of man), and shall sit on king David’s everlasting Throne, during His 1,000 yr reign.

By Jesus being a LEGAL offspring of Joseph, to king David, Jacob (ISRAEL), Isaac, Abraham........Jesus also fulfilled mans LAW, to be ENTITLED to
Abraham’s LAND inheritance, Promised to Abraham and his “FAITHFUL” descendants....
The Same Land shall be the KINGDOM of Jesus’ Kingdom on Earth, during His 1,000 yr reign.

Luke 2:
[1] And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
[2] (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)
[3] And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
[4] And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David
[5] To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
[6] And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.

2 Sam 7:
[16] And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

Rom 4:
[13] For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

 

[GodsGrace]

Actually....it is important to KNOW....
Mary was Jesus’ LEGAL Mother, according to MANS LAW.
Joseph was Jesus’ LEGAL Father, according to MANS LAW.
God IS ETERNAL. Does Not REPRODUCE.

Joseph was LEGALLY via birth descent, OF THE HOUSE OF DAVID.
ONLY a LEGAL offspring of king David, has the LAWFUL authority to sit ON king David’s (everlasting) Throne.
Jesus HAD to be a LEGAL offspring of king David, (Of the House of David), to Legally sit on king David’s Throne.

When Mary married Joesph, Mary BY marriage became legally also of the House of David....their LEGAL offspring....JESUS....was Lawfully (according to mans Law) registered in the taxing Census, as Husband, Wife & offspring, Jesus.
Man’s Law ~ fulfilled.

Jesus fulfilled the LAW (of man), and shall sit on king David’s everlasting Throne, during His 1,000 yr reign.

By Jesus being a LEGAL offspring of Joseph, to king David, Jacob (ISRAEL), Isaac, Abraham........Jesus also fulfilled mans LAW, to be ENTITLED to
Abraham’s LAND inheritance, Promised to Abraham and his “FAITHFUL” descendants....
The Same Land shall be the KINGDOM of Jesus’ Kingdom on Earth, during His 1,000 yr reign.

Luke 2:
[1] And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
[2] (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)
[3] And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
[4] And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David
[5] To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
[6] And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.

2 Sam 7:
[16] And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

Rom 4:
[13] For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Very good post.
It also explains how Mary was of the lineage of David.

Some believe Mary was descended directly from David...
Did you ever see this?

 

[Taken]

Very good post.
It also explains how Mary was of the lineage of David.

Some believe Mary was descended directly from David...

Yes, have seen the charts. Yes, know people have desperately tried to make Mary ‘naturally” of the linage back to Jacob, etc. (Part of Mary being “favored”, was expressly because ... she was a virgin and she was “betrothed” to a man OF the House of David.)
However from the get go, Scripture informs us, when a man and woman Marry, they become one. The spouses “assumed” each other’s parents as “ma and pa”. :)

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, have seen the charts. Yes, know people have desperately tried to make Mary ‘naturally” of the linage back to Jacob, etc. (Part of Mary being “favored”, was expressly because ... she was a virgin and she was “betrothed” to a man OF the House of David.)
However from the get go, Scripture informs us, when a man and woman Marry, they become one. The spouses “assumed” each other’s parents as “ma and pa”. :)

Do you believe marriage, as an institution, began in the Garden?

Some believe they are spiritually married and the institution of marriage is not important.

 

[Taken]

Do you believe marriage, as an institution, began in the Garden?

Some believe they are spiritually married and the institution of marriage is not important.

I believe IN the Garden God was establishing relationships For mankind.
Gen 1:26....a man
Gen 2:22....a woman
Gen 2:24....A woman God gave to man, called A wife
Gen 3:6 .....A man God gave to a woman, called A husband.
Gen 19:14...a condition of a wife and a husband called married.
Gen 34:9....the man husband, the woman wife, ajoined called marriage.

It sets the premise of God overseeing a joining of A man and A woman as A husband and A wife. Ajoined, by God called married, their union called A marriage.
(It’s a foreshadow of mankind becoming ajoined WITH God).

I do believe summoning Gods Presence for a man and a woman being joined together as husband and wife IS instituted by God for a marriage overseen and blessed by God.

I also believe, like all things God established as GOOD, pleasing to God:
Wicked men advocate, perpetuate, corrupt and tolerate and accept what is “NOT GOOD”.

 

[Pierac]

TOTALLY FALSE. There is no "he" in John 8:58. So when Jesus said "Before Abraham was I AM" He meant exactly that. "I AM the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob" (as noted in Exodus 3). And that is precisely why His enemies took up stones to stone Him for blasphemy. Jesus was claiming to be God.

But He did not stop there. To ensure that there was no misrepresentation by people such as yourself, He also said this: I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM [he], ye shall die in your sins. (John 8:24) The King James translators failed to do their job here and capitalize "I AM" without adding "he". Anyone who rejects the deity of Christ will die in his or her sins!

Your reading into scripture your beliefs.... You need the read the Truth out of scripure.. Let's look at what a very Trinitarian Bible has to say about your verse you used!!!

Net Bible Joh 8:24 Thus I told you51 that you will die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am he,52 you will die in your sins."

Joh 8:24 -

51 tn Grk "thus I said to you."

52 tn Grk "unless you believe that I am." In this context there is an implied predicate nominative ("he") following the "I am" phrase. What Jesus' hearers had to acknowledge is that he was who he claimed to be, i.e., the Messiah (cf. Joh_20:31). This view is also reflected in English

 

[Pierac]

* NOT ONCE was JESUS called in Scripture a “HUMAN” man.

* JESUS IS GOD, IS SPIRIT, and Scripture reveals Spirits Have to POWER to APPEAR in ANY LIKENESS they choose.

* God Himself CHOSE the WHEN, WHERE, HOW, WHY, the LIKENESS of His Words APPEARANCE....


It’s ALL in Scripture IF you follow the ORDER and WAY God reveals.

You are mistaken…

What saith the scriptures….

"The Lord your God will rise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your own countrymen [literally, brothers]; you shall listen to him" (Deut.18:15). In this passage, Moses predicts that the coming Messiah would be a person "like me," raised up from "among" the people of Israel, and that God would not speak to the people directly, because they were afraid that if God spoke without a mediator they would die (V16). The coming "prophet" would be a man of whom it is said that God would "put his word in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. And it shall come about whoever will not listen to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him” (v. 18-19). To say that the Messiah is God Spirit and not a Man is to contradict the whole point of this prophecy.

Jesus proved this the be true…

Joh 8:40 "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.

Peter knew Jesus was a Human… a “Man”

Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know—

Paul knew the human Jesus… was created from the Spirit of God in the womb of Mary and died a “man” and was risen from the dead as a man! Our mediator to the one true God!

Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Jesus is God’s chosen one!!!

Luk 9:35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!"

Time to Repent from your false world view!!!

Act 17:30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished
proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."

Read Act 17:30 again…

Jesus is A Human Man appointed by God… in which He will Judge the world… God proved this by raising Him from the Dead!

Your Gnostic view is not supported by scriptures

Paul