For those who think Christ is not God.

[farouk]

Peter declares his son ship and Jesus told him this knowledge was given from God.

HI @Waiting on him Scripture is indeed full of the Deity of Christ.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Colossians 1:16
All things (ta panta). The universe as in Rom_11:35, a well-known philosophical phrase. It is repeated at the end of the verse.
In him were created (en autōi ektisthē).

and is a complete denial of the Gnostic philosophy....which I suspect you hold

The whole of creative activity is summed up in Christ including the angels in heaven and everything on earth.

God wrought through “the Son of his love.” All earthly dignities are included.

Paul now gives the reason (hoti, for) for the primacy of Christ in the work of creation (Col_1:16f.). It is the constative aorist passive indicative ektisthē (from ktizō, old verb, to found, to create (Rom_1:25).

This central activity of Christ in the work of creation is presented also in Joh_1:3; Heb_1:2
​

Have been created (ektistai). Perfect passive indicative of ktizō, “stand created,” “remain created.” The permanence of the universe rests, then, on Christ far more than on gravity. It is a Christo-centric universe.


Through him (di' autou).

As the intermediate and sustaining agent. He had already used en autōi (in him) as the sphere of activity.
And unto him (kai eis auton).

This is the only remaining step to take and Paul takes it (1Co_15:28) Eph_1:10 for similar use of en autōi of Christ and in Col_1:19, Col_1:20 again we have en autōi, di' autou, eis auton used of Christ. See note on Heb_2:10 for di' hon (because of whom) and di' hou (by means of whom) applied to God concerning the universe (ta panta).

In Rom_11:35 we find ex autou kai di' autou kai eis auton ta panta referring to God. But

Paul does not use ex in this connection of Christ, but only en, dia, and eis. See the same distinction preserved in 1Co_8:6 (ex of God, dia, of Christ).

Col 1:16 οτι εν αυτω εκτισθη τα παντα τα εν τοις ουρανοις και τα επι της γης τα ορατα και τα αορατα ειτε θρονοι ειτε κυριοτητες ειτε αρχαι ειτε εξουσιαι τα παντα δι αυτου και εις αυτον εκτισται

Are you a Gnostic? Wouldn't surprise me.
J.

I am one of Jehovah's witnesses Joe, as you know. There is that poet and don't know it thing ;)

 

[Robert Gwin]

however His name occurs in all versions of the Bible I believe in the form of Jah.

Yehovah is throughout the OT. There is no "I believe in the form of" hope to it. The nature of knowledge pride is to think we are really special, because we one of the few elite that think we have found something that most other people can't see or understand. There is no hidden name of 'jehovah' written in NT Scripture. Neither is Rembrandt secretly revealing the Holy Grail of Magdalene's womb that Jesus coupled with as a man.

There is no jehovah code in the NT. If Yehovah were still the name of the Lord God, then that name would be everywhere in the NT as in the Old. You know, like the name of Jesus is.

None of you have any credibility anymore. There remain these proofs that you haven't even tried to answer.

1. Jesus has made all things, and nothing is ever made without Him. And the LORD God of Israel is our Maker.

2. You say the word was with God, and the word was a god. This perversion of the Greek becomes direct contradiction to the LORD God declaring there is no god with Him, including all gods that have not made anything will perish.

Your falsely made christ and god called jehovah will perish.

3. Your jehovah has never fulfilled any promised prophesy the LORD made of Himself on earth. Scripture shows Jesus has and will.

4. Jesus Christ is the Word of life and eternal life manifested on earth. The true God is that eternal life, the Son Jesus Christ.

5. Jesus is the name above every name that is ever named by God in Scripture, including His name Yehovah.

6. The Son is to be honored as the Father, and if not then neither the Father nor the Son is being honored: As God.

You are trying to honor a false father called jehovah, even as you give lip service honor to a false son and christ as a god.

Honoring the Son as a god is honoring the Father as a god: foolish lip service.

The only reason I have for your refusing Jesus Christ the true God and eternal life, is because idolatry is much more intellectually stimulating than simply believing the truth. Especially when it make someone feel like the really special hidden minority.

As I said, the Bible is the only book in the world where so many people have spent so much time trying to change what the Author is simply saying.

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

I fully believe it was in what you call the new testament sir. Jehovah would not have inspired writers who would alter His word. You do understand the original writings do not exist correct? Do you also understand that your favored version has Jah's name in Revelation 19

 

[Johann]

I am one of Jehovah's witnesses Joe, as you know. There is that poet and don't know it thing ;)

Yeah, you have told me before.
J.

 

[APAK]

@Brakelite just saying bro, I see you often use the expression, 'like beget/begot like' as if this is from the word of God and then apply it exclusively to mean like Father like son, and so the Son of God must be divine as his Father. The Son was filled with the Father's Spirit within his human 100 percent spirit. This does not make Yahshua the same as God, his Father. The Father shares his HS with his Son. He does not transfer it, say for a better expression/term, his Holy spirit(ual) DNA within him to be the God the Father Son and also a man, of dual natures. He places it within connected to the human spirit of Christ within the womb. And later at his Baptism the HS of the Father increases his access in quantity and type for his (Father's) purpose to execute the mission to the Cross.

Just because the HS does its work in the creation of another human being does not mean that the Father's own intrinsic attributes as the source of divinity and his own spirit are passed on to his creation. That does not happen.

God the Father maintains and keeps his intrinsic characteristics of Spirit, Word and Divine nature, intact, and preserves it as the ONLY source to only share with his creation. As with Christ and the angels, it also applies to human believers via Christ's spirit, and then in the quantity and type for the Father's purpose in our lives. Not every one gets the same type and quantity from the Father's HS. We do get a 'chunk' of it (HS) though (that @Johann condemns me for using this term 'chunk'...lol)

Look back at the miraculous birth of Isaac by the HS who overshadowed Abrahams' wife. We are not told how this miracle was technically processed to create this baby in the womb. It is speculation. We do know however that there was no transfer of any of the Father's HS DNA material within Isaac's seed even though he was also a son of God.

Blessing to you bro...great week to you and family

 

[Waiting on him]

Revelation 19:10 KJV
[10] And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

 

[marks]

So you can't see the symbol of the serpent and it carries no meaning in Christ?

I'm sorry, I can't see what?

Rather than toss out some accusatory but otherwise non-communicative question, perhaps you might consider just saying the thing that you are thinking that you seem to think I'm unable to see?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Why would you think this?

That's what Hezekiah meant, what did you mean? Didn't I ask you that before?

Much love!

 

[marks]

So you are saying He didn't really die?

He certainly died. And then He arose from the dead. The way the Bible words it, Jesus rose "from among the dead ones". Interesting, isn't it?

Much love!

 

[Johann]

He certainly died. And then He arose from the dead. The way the Bible words it, Jesus rose "from among the dead ones". Interesting, isn't it?

Much love!

...out from among the dead ones..
J.

 

[marks]

...out from among the dead ones..
J.

Romans 6:11-13 KJV
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13) Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.



Not that we were dead and now are alive, though that is true also, but that we were among the dead ones, and now we've come out from them. Dead indeed to sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Much love!

 

[Johann]

Romans 6:11-13 KJV
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13) Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

View attachment 22659

Not that we were dead and now are alive, though that is true also, but that we were among the dead ones, and now we've come out from them. Dead indeed to sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Much love!

Yield (παραστήσατε)
Rev., present. The same word as before, but in a different tense. The present tense, be presenting, denotes the daily habit, the giving of the hand, the tongue, etc., to the service of sin as temptation appeals to each. Here the aorist, as in Rom_12:1, denotes an act of self-devotion once for all.
As those that are alive (ὡς ζῶντας)
The best texts read ὡσεί as if alive. This brings out more clearly the figurative character of the exhortation.
From the dead (ἐκ νεκρῶν)
Note the preposition out of. See on Luk_16:31.
Vincent

But present yourselves unto God (alla parastēsate heautous tōi theōi). First aorist active imperative of paristēmi, same verb, but different tense, do it now and completely. Our “members” (melē) should be at the call of God “as alive from the dead.”
Robertson

Since I am more interested in the morphology of the Greek text I will ask you this, not a challenge, just a question.


Eph_2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

We were dead IN the sphere of trespasses and sins..νεκροὺς nekrous||Adj-AMP|dead τοῖς tois||Art-DNP|in the παραπτώμασιν paraptōmasin||N-DNP|trespasses καὶ kai||Conj|and ταῖς tais||Art-DFP|the ἁμαρτίαις hamartiais||N-DFP|sins ὑμῶν, hymōn||PPro-G2P|of you,


Eph_2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

ἡμᾶς hēmas||PPro-A1P|we νεκροὺς nekrous|G3498|Adj-AMP|dead = Adjective - Accusative Masculine Plural

τοῖς tois||Art-DNP|- παραπτώμασιν paraptōmasin||N-DNP|in trespasses, συνεζωοποίησεν synezōopoiēsen||V-AIA-3S|made [us] alive with τῷ tō||Art-DMS|- Χριστῷ,— Christō||N-DMS|Christ — χάριτί chariti||N-DFS|by grace ἐστε....

We were nekrous =Personal / Possessive Pronoun - Accusative 1st Person Plural

It stands to reason we were all "dead" in trespasses in sins, though very much alive, living dead corpses with no Spirit to animate us.

Your take @marks?

Since I am already branded as an heretic I can stand the onslaughts.
J.

 

[marks]

Yield (παραστήσατε)
Rev., present. The same word as before, but in a different tense. The present tense, be presenting, denotes the daily habit, the giving of the hand, the tongue, etc., to the service of sin as temptation appeals to each. Here the aorist, as in Rom_12:1, denotes an act of self-devotion once for all.
As those that are alive (ὡς ζῶντας)
The best texts read ὡσεί as if alive. This brings out more clearly the figurative character of the exhortation.
From the dead (ἐκ νεκρῶν)
Note the preposition out of. See on Luk_16:31.
Vincent

But present yourselves unto God (alla parastēsate heautous tōi theōi). First aorist active imperative of paristēmi, same verb, but different tense, do it now and completely. Our “members” (melē) should be at the call of God “as alive from the dead.”
Robertson

Since I am more interested in the morphology of the Greek text I will ask you this, not a challenge, just a question.


Eph_2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

We were dead IN the sphere of trespasses and sins..νεκροὺς nekrous||Adj-AMP|dead τοῖς tois||Art-DNP|in the παραπτώμασιν paraptōmasin||N-DNP|trespasses καὶ kai||Conj|and ταῖς tais||Art-DFP|the ἁμαρτίαις hamartiais||N-DFP|sins ὑμῶν, hymōn||PPro-G2P|of you,


Eph_2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

ἡμᾶς hēmas||PPro-A1P|we νεκροὺς nekrous|G3498|Adj-AMP|dead = Adjective - Accusative Masculine Plural

τοῖς tois||Art-DNP|- παραπτώμασιν paraptōmasin||N-DNP|in trespasses, συνεζωοποίησεν synezōopoiēsen||V-AIA-3S|made [us] alive with τῷ tō||Art-DMS|- Χριστῷ,— Christō||N-DMS|Christ — χάριτί chariti||N-DFS|by grace ἐστε....

We were nekrous =Personal / Possessive Pronoun - Accusative 1st Person Plural

It stands to reason we were all "dead" in trespasses in sins, though very much alive, living dead corpses with no Spirit to animate us.

Your take @marks?

Since I am already branded as an heretic I can stand the onslaughts.
J.

Can you put this into the form of a question? I'm not sure what you are looking for.

But I think the proper meaning is that we were dead in sinful flesh, and now we are alive in the spirit. We live among those who are dead in sinful flesh, but we are no longer one of them. We are alive out from among the dead, and we should stop living and thinking as though we are still the dead ones.

Even though our whole lives we've lived among the dead, and don't know what it means to be truly alive, we are being trained, the renewing of our minds, to live and think the new life unto God.

Much love!

 

[Johann]

Can you put this into the form of a question? I'm not sure what you are looking for.

But I think the proper meaning is that we were dead in sinful flesh, and now we are alive in the spirit. We live among those who are dead in sinful flesh, but we are no longer one of them. We are alive out from among the dead, and we should stop living and thinking as though we are still the dead ones.

Even though our whole lives we've lived among the dead, and don't know what it means to be truly alive, we are being trained, the renewing of our minds, to live and think the new life unto God.

Much love!

Sorry, was going to say we 'were' dead in sins, hamartia, in what sense were we dead?

But you have answered adequately.
J.

 

[marks]

Sorry, was going to say we 'were' dead in sins, hamartia, in what sense were we dead?

But you have answered adequately.
J.

We were dead in that our sins separated us from God, and therefore had no means for freedom from those sins, and would remain condemned by them, and remain separated from God.

Being reborn, we have been made alive, that is, sins forgiven and cleansed as we rise with Christ from the grave into life knowing God.

I know you know these things, I just love to write about them!

Much love!

 

[face2face]

Are you of that group of anti trinitarians that are so determined to deny Christ His true place in the Godhead you also deny Him being Creator?

Not at all.
He sits on the right side of the Father in Glory.

Colossians 2:9 For in him (Jesus) all the fullness of deity lives in bodily form 2:10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head over every ruler and authority.

Time and time again we are showing the reward for his obedience. We all need to me mindful God is still all supreme even over his Son.

 

[Brakelite]

@Brakelite just saying bro, I see you often use the expression, 'like beget/begot like' as if this is from the word of God and then apply it exclusively to mean like Father like son, and so the Son of God must be divine as his Father. The Son was filled with the Father's Spirit within his human 100 percent spirit. This does not make Yahshua the same as God, his Father. The Father shares his HS with his Son. He does not transfer it, say for a better expression/term, his Holy spirit(ual) DNA within him to be the God the Father Son and also a man, of dual natures. He places it within connected to the human spirit of Christ within the womb. And later at his Baptism the HS of the Father increases his access in quantity and type for his (Father's) purpose to execute the mission to the Cross.

Just because the HS does its work in the creation of another human being does not mean that the Father's own intrinsic attributes as the source of divinity and his own spirit are passed on to his creation. That does not happen.

God the Father maintains and keeps his intrinsic characteristics of Spirit, Word and Divine nature, intact, and preserves it as the ONLY source to only share with his creation. As with Christ and the angels, it also applies to human believers via Christ's spirit, and then in the quantity and type for the Father's purpose in our lives. Not every one gets the same type and quantity from the Father's HS. We do get a 'chunk' of it (HS) though (that @Johann condemns me for using this term 'chunk'...lol)

Look back at the miraculous birth of Isaac by the HS who overshadowed Abrahams' wife. We are not told how this miracle was technically processed to create this baby in the womb. It is speculation. We do know however that there was no transfer of any of the Father's HS DNA material within Isaac's seed even though he was also a son of God.

Blessing to you bro...great week to you and family

And if the Son isn't a created being as you propose... But a literal Son as the word begotten means... Every time it's used as far as I can tell...

 

[Brakelite]

Not at all.
He sits on the right side of the Father in Glory.

Colossians 2:9 For in him (Jesus) all the fullness of deity lives in bodily form 2:10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head over every ruler and authority.

Time and time again we are showing the reward for his obedience. We all need to me mindful God is still all supreme even over his Son.

I see the Father supreme in rank... But the Son, as Son, the natural born/begotten Son, the rightful inheritor of all the attributes of the Godhead.

 

[face2face]

I see the Father supreme in rank... But the Son, as Son, the natural born/begotten Son, the rightful inheritor of all the attributes of the Godhead.

I would agree with you completely.
Natural born; life of probation like ours; exalted to the right hand of the Father on high; Has a name which is above every name except Him who gave him that name.

 

[marks]

Natural born; life of probation like ours;

Not like ours. The Last Adam, the first of a new humanity.

Much love!