ACTS 2 PENTECOST
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Yes, thats what i wrote.
The Cross birthed the NT Church, that we understand as the NT church... but there was no NT at that time..
What we KNOW, as Theology, is based on the NT that was not yet created in Paul's day.
Yet everything that is revealed about the Crucifixion, the Blood Atonement, the Body of Christ, had already begun before Paul was called to start revealing it to the "church"....the born again.
Notice this .. In John 14:6... Jesus said.. I am THE WAY to the Father....no person comes to the Father, but by ME."
And Jesus explained this.. not as Jews or Gentiles......but as "persons".. = so that is "everyone is invited" to BELIEVE IN ME.
And that is why Jesus said that "ALL who believe in me"".. (not just jews or gentiles) but everyone.... and if you do, Jesus gives you Eternal Life... (Salvation).
And Jesus said this prophetically, because He had not yet been sacrificed on The Cross yet, to PROVIDE what He told you, that was available......if you BELIEVED.
It was AFTER Jesus was slain on the "Tree", that His words became in effect, as until His Blood was shed, their was no eternal pardon, yet available.
So, Paul came, was called by Jesus, after Jesus is back in Heaven, to reveal what Jesus told the apostles, , before He Flew away, into Glory.
Jesus told them.. "there are many things i want to tell you now, to reveal to you now, but you can't hear me now, you can't accept it now, you can't deal with it now"....
So, Paul was called to reveal all that to us....
Behold
Well-Known Member
Believing the "Gospel of the Grace of God".....(Paul's Gospel)...... which means you trust in Christ for your salvation........allows God to save you.
See, God accepts our "faith".. .. God counts our faith, on our behalf, to them impute,( to give to us), Salvation, that is what Christ finished on the Cross.
Remember Jesus said from the Cross.........>"IT........Is finished". "It is accomplished"..
= "IT".
"IT" is our salvation, as He is our salvation, and was about to die for the sin of the world.
So, when someone says......>>"what is Salvation".. The answer is......>"JESUS is Salvation".....and that is why He said.. "no one, no person comes to the Father but by ME". John 14:6...
Jesus is the "narrow Way".
When Jesus says "I Am THE WAY".. He is explaining....>"I Am SALVATION". "I Am God's Grace".. "I Am Eternal Life". "I Am God's Forgiveness of all your sin, forever".
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I dont understand the importance of these words as it relates to anything more than what we can find spoken of in one way or another.
For example Jesus told them to preach the gospel to "every creature"
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Therefore Paul might say,
2 Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
This is neither here nor there but a new creature
Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
When Paul says this in Ephes 3:5
Ephes 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostleS and prophetS by the Spirit;
That's plural apostles there, and not just Paul alone. Not that Paul could know anything by himself anyway, but revealed unto them by the Spirit
Ephes 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel
Aren't you the one who is always separating the two when Paul even says
Col 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Whether you use that verse or the following
Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision (after the flesh) availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision (after the flesh) but a new creature.
I would think so because it shows here
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Jesus did say
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
You lost me again
The Holy Spirit spake through all of them, you can say Paul or the Holy Ghost, I dont understand why this is so important that I make such distinctions.
I read it, it was very lengthy, I wasnt getting what it was I was supposed to be catching.
I believe the crux of the matter is that the "Body of Christ " did not start till the gentiles were being born again . Not to say that anyone born again before was any less born again at the beginning of the Body of Christ . At least this what I am seeing from what is being said .
Paul's ministry was the beginning of a Dispensation of Grace for all of mankind , remember Jesus said to not go to the gentiles . The other apostles had been empowered at Pentecost but were still preaching a Kingdom of God to the Jews . I don't remember ever seeing what is going on with Paul described this way before but I can see what the OP is getting at .
One more fairly lengthy article , if you want to read it
. I don't think the OP is in error but it sure is a lot for a new student of the bible to grasp .The Church (the Body of Christ) Edit : This link comes from a site that thinks "signs gifts" are no longer in operation . So take this link with a grain of salt .
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Just because Paul had not received the revealing of the Body Of Christ does not mean the believers above were not already part of the Body of Christ . Paul did not speak the Body of Christ into existence .
So Jesus (who is the head of the body) was like some bodyless head until his Spirit given his apostles attached like tentical/tendons to some heathen too?
I couldnt resist
He came to his own and said to them
Mat 10:5-6 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Even as Jesus said the same concerning himself
Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
But Jesus also said,
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
He was the lamb that taketh away the sin of the world, that was known by John the baptist even
Even as the apostle John writes (not for ours sins only)
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
The obvious quetions
Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also
Rom 15:10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.
I might not know what you are referring to concerning the Kingdom of God and the Jews here
Jesus does say this here
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
But Jesus also says this here
Mat 21:40 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Then we see this here
Acts 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
Acts 19:14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
Acts 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
Acts 19:16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.
They have no power and were overcome without the Spirit
Acts 19:17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.
I think people can just connect the dots to things differently.
One more fairly lengthy article , if you want to read it
The Church (the Body of Christ)
Thanks talons, I will considering clicking on that, I can't promise anything here, I clicked on one thing today and can't believe I actually read someones lengthy study for the first time in something like years, I don't want to make this habitual thing lol
So Jesus (who is the head of the body) was like some bodyless head until his Spirit given his apostles attached like tentical/tendons to some heathen too?
I couldnt resist
Oh yeah , can't they though !
You can wake up and find yourself at the bottom of a rabbit hole and wonder how you got there , lol .
Oh well that last link I posted is suspect in it's teaching .
The Church (the Body of Christ) Edit : This link comes from a site that thinks "signs gifts" are no longer in operation . So take this link with a grain of salt .
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This is so true, and I try to save myself from going down them
You can wake up and find yourself at the bottom of a rabbit hole and wonder how you got there , lol .
Thats why I dont mind looking at Dougs posts (not his charts though, those are a whole other beast). He will quote enough scripture and lets his words be few which makes dissecting where he is coming from and going easier.
You wrote about the body of Christ.................What Paul did was explain it.
So, to explain it, it had to be there, first.
If I am correct you state that the body of Christ was established before Paul and he just explained what it was
I say that there was no body before Paul was converted......there was the church of God which was the believing remnant of God......this is the church Paul persecuted.........this church only believed that Jesus was Christ the Son of God......and believed the gospel; of the kingdom
I dont think so
[Rom 3:24-26 KJV] 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Forgiveness has always been by the blood , as you say as well.......in the passage above it says his future shed blood allowed God to be just in forgiving past sins......the past sins are those committed all the way back to Adam and Eve
[Mat 8:11 KJV] 11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob have eternal life because they believed God before the cross
Thats not the new creature
The new creature is never mentioned by Peter and the apostles because it was a mystery hide by God until told to Paul.........it is significant because Gentiles could be included in the household of God and be fellowheirs with Jews....the Gentiles before the new creature were excluded
God had another purpose for the church formed under Peter and the twelve and different commandments ...........we need to know who is our apostle and who to follow.....there is no Jew or Gentile in the body of Christ but there was under Peter
Yes the Spirit was operating in all.....what I meant was that only Paul says that we are baptized into the body of Christ......Peter said nothing of the body of Christ........you cant say the church formed under Peter is the body of Christ because there is no scripture for it,,,,,,,,it only calls it the church of God, the remnant of Israel, the little flock
[1Co 12:27 KJV] 27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
[Eph 4:12 KJV] 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
I didnt say Jesus telling them to preach the gospel to every CREATURE was THE NEW creature, I simply posted that Jesus told them to preach the gospel to "every creature"
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every CREATURE.
Therefore Paul might say,
2 Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man be IN Christ, he is a NEW creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
This is neither here nor there but a new creature
Gal 6:15 For IN Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but A NEW creature.
Which is transformational, similar to being changed from one thing into another, for example here
1 Sam 10:6 And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into ANOTHER man.
From a creature into a NEW creature, or from a man into ANOTHER man, or from a man into the NEW man. For to make in himself of twain one new man.
It might not be "mentioned" by Peter or the other apostles, but Paul does not agree with you that it was revealed to him alone, Paul himself says
Ephes 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy APOSTLESSSSSSSSS and PROPHETSSSSSS ((( by the Spirit )))
Ephes 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel
Isn't that rather heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ
Even as with such as being heir of the world, it says here
Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Why? Because of Gal 2:12?
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Didn't Paul previous tell Peter
Gal 2:4 If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
Why would Peter be living after the manner of the Gentiles (and not as the Jews) if Peter was a Jew? Not only that, but then start compelling the Gentiles to live as the Jews (which Paul said Peter did not live as they did)?
Edit typos
Jesus revealed the mystery only to Paul.......Paul revealed it to others and the Spirit revealed it to others
