Fear Rules Christianity - True or False?

[MA2444]

You have already discerned that the church system is fraught with many divisions that are not ever going to agree or unite. We have a church here in Australia called “The Uniting Church” which is an amalgamation of three smaller denominations that were struggling to stay in existence, so they pulled themselves together as one church. Their name however is a true description of their belief systems. “Uniting” was the aim, but “United” they never were, are still aren’t. Yet it is now Australia's third-largest Christian denomination, behind the Catholic and the Anglican Churches. Why? Because there is no set criteria on beliefs. They can pretty much believe what they wish, especially about the LGBTQ issue.

Sure I can see the division in the churches every day. It's on this board even. And...the church age is almost over. When the rapture happens, the church age is gone. The age of grace is gone. The earth will be in the age of judgment then. No more grace! They had time.

This is from their website....

Uniting Network NSW/ACT
welcoming and celebrating
lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender,
intersex and queer (LGBTIQ) people
in the Uniting Church in Australia.

So if you want to embrace the LGBTQ agenda...feel free to join this one....

If I want to join them? Oh I see, you havent seen any of my posts in those pro btqzwe threads that they start, Lol! I am prolly their most vocal critic on the board. They hate me because I speak truth! And that's fine. I aint in any way acceoting of them or diversity or confusion and whatever else mental health issues they have.

Where do Christendom’s divisions fall in line with Paul’s statement at 1 Cor 1:10?
There can be “no divisions” in genuine Christianity....there is one truth, believed by all. So how does that work in Christendom?

What has to happen, is what took place in the first century with Jesus’ first appearance......people had to decide whether to stay with their old broken religious system whom Jesus exposed as apostate....or whether they would risk the ostracism and hatred directed to those considered heretics by the misled Jewish majority. There had to be courage in their conviction. And the same situation was to again challenge God’s worshippers when Christ was to return, because the devil was going to do it all again.....substitute the original with a counterfeit, and have the true disciples look like trouble making heretics. But who were the real heretics? Who are they today?

Some pretend that these divisions don’t bother them by adopting a “non-denominational” approach, but that simply means that the divisions remain...they just don’t talk about them.

Where are you in all of that MA 2444?

What do you mean? I have my beliefs. I have my faith. I dont identify with any denomination. So am I bad? I speak truth on the internet. What would you have me to do? Go picket a local church or something? Start fights in real life with confused people who have no direction? That seems like it would be ludicrous to me.

So God dont do miracles or healing anymore because He dont want to confuse people?! Excuse me Sister, but ponder what you said. It does not make sense to me one little bit. I dunno what to even say. The enemy is here to steal/kill/destroy, and you say that the enemy is so smart that he gives glory to God and heals people to disguise himself?
That does not compute Sister. What part of steal/kill/destroy is giving glory to God?

 

[St. SteVen]

I didn’t know there was such a thing as Cessationism arguments until @Aunty Jane and this thread.

I just shake my head (and dust off my feet). The living God reached out to me. This experience trumps any doctrinal argument.

I can't prove it, but it seems that Cessationism was created to answer the question:
Why don't we see miracles in the church today?

Instead of hitting their knees, church leaders hit the books and created Cessationism as the answer.
= Not our fault.

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[Wrangler]

Why don't we see miracles in the church today?

Instead of hitting their knees, church leaders hit the books and created Cessationism as the answer.
= Not our fault.

Some questions, we don’t have good answers for and should just leave it at that.

I speculate it has to do with rarity and faith. For instance, if God exists and is all powerful, why isn’t it as obvious as the sun in the sky? Why doesn’t he talk to all of us as he did the early prophets?

By doing this, the holy God would make himself common.

By doing this, we’d abandon our faith with our certain knowledge of God. For reasons we don’t know, God has chosen faith as the pivot point that we chose to put first.

On top of this, @MA2444 and I and many others are witnesses to miracles, not just one but many. One thing is to explain why there are so few miracles since the first century; it’s another thing to act as an enemy of God in being a so-called believer but try to undermine the faith of others in the miracles they do see.

 

[Behold]

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Cult's rule "modern" Christianity.

Heresy rules "modern Christian Theology".

On Forums, its the same.

 

[MA2444]

Cult's rule "modern" Christianity.

Heresy rules "modern Christian Theology".

On Forums, its the same.

That could go either way, lol.

Do you believe in miracles? I'm guessing yes but am not sure.

 

[St. SteVen]

I speculate it has to do with rarity and faith. For instance, if God exists and is all powerful, why isn’t it as obvious as the sun in the sky? Why doesn’t he talk to all of us as he did the early prophets?

By doing this, the holy God would make himself common.

By doing this, we’d abandon our faith with our certain knowledge of God. For reasons we don’t know, God has chosen faith as the pivot point that we chose to put first.

I have wondered about that in reference to the Millennium kingdom.
Since Jesus will be ruling on the earth, God will have revealed himself to all.
Whether you view Jesus as God, or only as His chosen representative sent from heaven.

A thousand years is a long time. And humankind tend to forget about the past.
We seek God when we are in peril. In a thousand years of peace, what will happen?
Twenty-five generations. (40 x 25 = 1,000)

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[MA2444]

Do Christians live in such intense fear that to simply "look away" from Jesus endangers them? Wow.

Absolutely not. But for the sake of conversation...does Jesus endanger us? Well, yes and no. Scripture does say that when you turn to God and start to follow Him, and you read your bible, pray pray pray, and sow seeds of love in your community, the world will turn against you and want to kill you. So, in a way...yes.

But scripture also says fear not, I have not given you a spirit of fear, so when you walk threough the valley of the shadow of death (earth) you should fear no evil (psalm 23)
the last 3 verses of Psalm 91 also say that He will be there for us and prtect us and He will delivers us from our times of trouble...so, no, Jesus doesnt endanger us.

The nutballs of the world are the ones who are a threat to you, not the Lord Jesus. He gives us divine protection (Psalm 91). Are there qualifiers for God's protection? You bet there are! Obedience. If you have sin in your life, then you dont have the Lord's protection. If you do obey the Lord and follow Him and walk in His ways, then you will have protection and will be able to walk the valley of death without fear. Simple. Obey.

 

[St. SteVen]

Are there qualifiers for God's protection? You bet there are! Obedience. If you have sin in your life, then you dont have the Lord's protection. If you do obey the Lord and follow Him and walk in His ways, then you will have protection and will be able to walk the valley of death without fear. Simple. Obey.

Wow.
What you described is extortion. Gangster style protection. I don't buy it. (no pun intended)

Job was obedient. He got slammed big time.
God's life-giving rain falls on the crops of the wicked and the righteous.

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[MA2444]

Wow.
What you described is extortion. Gangster style protection. I don't buy it. (no pun intended)

Job was obedient. He got slammed big time.
God's life-giving rain falls on the crops of the wicked and the righteous.

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It's not extortion in the least. God's a Gangster now? Lol!

No brother, Salvation is a free gift. But what are we told to do? Build up your treasures in Hevaen...What does ths mean? Our actions and our deeds are linked with rewards or not rewards! The amount of Love that we sow upon our fellow man is obedience to His words, therefore it is rewarded. Both here and in Heaven. Our actions after becoming children of God have a direct correlation to what our station in Heaven will be.

Is protection a reward or should we have an entitlement to it? Can you see what I mean?

You dont get saved and then go home and sit on your blessed ass urance that Life will be a bed of roses and say ok Jesus I am a child of God now so you better protect me! And then do nothing to participate!

Did you join the Military and then refuse to participate in basic training? Interesting.

 

[Berean]

Absurd, tortured take on Scripture. Yes, these gifts will stop - at the end of time before Christs return. No, nothing says in the first century,

So you still believe in miracles, and speaking in tongues?

 

[Aunty Jane]

I didn’t know there was such a thing as Cessationism arguments until @Aunty Jane and this thread.

I just shake my head (and dust off my feet). The living God reached out to me. This experience trumps any doctrinal argument.

There are lots of “isms” invented by man……God doesn’t have any.

And no one can tell you what you don’t want to hear…..except Jesus……the judge of all of us will let us all know at “the end“ whether we have succeeded in making the grade…..fulfilling all that he taught without deviation, justification or excuse…none of which will be acceptable on that day.

“Few” will pass the test (Matt 7:13-14)…but I guess you don’t believe that Jesus would be so heartless as to ignore a person’s sincerity, even if they are mistaken in their acceptance of what is not truth?……after all he spoke of searching for the lost “sheep”…..but what if the sheep is not lost at all, but is exhibiting the traits of a “goat”? (Please excuse the irritating quotation marks as they refer to scripture.)

What then is the difference between a “sheep” and a “goat”?….they can sound similar, but not the same….and under Israel’s law both were equally “clean” for food, or when offered in sacrifice….so what is the difference that make one person a “sheep” and another, a “goat” and why do they need separating?

Goats have a trait that sheep do not…..sheep stick with the flock and fools the leader….they are thus protected in amongst many of their flock mates….goats OTOH are more independent and curious…they will often stray away from the herd to explore or to obtain food that they fancy. I have three goats who are pets, and their independent nature is obvious, and they will to do their own thing which makes them so different to the sheep we once had on the family farm. I really appreciate the difference, now that I have kept both.

So, will we know if we are a sheep or a goat until Jesus passes judgment? The answer is “no “, according to Jesus’ response to the goats in Matt 7:21-23 and in Matt 25:31-33; 41, 46. They have not proven their faith and obedience by their conduct, especially towards Christ’s elect……but instead have set their own standards of right and wrong (good and evil)…..the very thing God tried to avoid in the very beginning….

Listen…obey…and be blessed….sounds like a plan….

 

[Wrangler]

So you still believe in miracles, and speaking in tongues?

I guess you have not read my earlier posts. Have you experienced getting caught in the rain? What to say to people who believe rain is a thing of the past?

 

[TheHC]

Should we live in terror of our heavenly Father. Duck every time he lifts his hand.

I think you know the answer…. Of course not.

As Aunty Jane said:

Is that how you see God? Can he be trusted to do what he says he will? Or is it we who cannot be trusted to do as he says? Obedience is, after all, the only thing he required of his newly formed human creation.
If they had remained obedient, sin and death would never have overtaken us. We would be enjoying everlasting life right here in paradise conditions forever…but our first parents listened to a liar and threw us all under the bus.

Stephen, have you ever considered the laws given to Adam? He was given basically only 3 laws, two of which brought pleasure: 1) cultivate the Garden (eventually extending its boundaries) - satisfying / fulfilling work; and 2/ “be fruitful and fill the Earth”, very (ahem) enjoyable.

And there was a 3rd law, the only prohibitive law: ‘don’t eat from that one tree.’

That was it! No others! A&E had no reason to “fear” Jehovah! He was no micromanager of their lives.

Now, compare that with the laws given to the Israelites!
Drastic difference! The Mosaic Law contained over 600 laws!

Why?

Because imperfect people need much more guidance.

Christ came to give us back what the rebels took away from us.

So @St. SteVen , at God’s appointed time when all the benefits of Christ’s sacrifice come to be fully applied, & mankind is restored to perfection (Rev.21:3,4), we will then experience the “freedom of the children of God.”— Romans 8:21

(I hope I’ll be there. All of us.)

 

[TheHC]

The living God reached out to me. This experience trumps any doctrinal argument.

Just curious, Wrangler… do you believe the dead can speak with the living?

(There’s a “method to my madness”, please bear with me.)

 

[face2face]

I think you know the answer…. Of course not.

As Aunty Jane said:

Stephen, have you ever considered the laws given to Adam? He was given basically only 3 laws, two of which brought pleasure: 1) cultivate the Garden (eventually extending its boundaries) - satisfying / fulfilling work; and 2/ “be fruitful and fill the Earth”, very (ahem) enjoyable.

And there was a 3rd law, the only prohibitive law: ‘don’t eat from that one tree.’

That was it! No others! A&E had no reason to “fear” Jehovah! He was no micromanager of their lives.

Now, compare that with the laws given to the Israelites!
Drastic difference! The Mosaic Law contained over 600 laws!

Why?

Because imperfect people need much more guidance.



So @St. SteVen , at God’s appointed time when all the benefits of Christ’s sacrifice come to be fully applied, & mankind is restored to perfection Rev.21:3,4), we will then experience the “freedom of the children of God.”— Romans 8:21

(I hope I’ll be there. All of us.)

This contains a poor comparison.

On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 22:40

The nature Adam had, is the same which you and I have, and it matters not how many laws or commands God gives it, man sins, end of story!

Also, man will not be restored to perfection - throw your JW doctrine in the bin!! Man needs to be clothed entirely with immorality which A&E did NOT have!

It's the gap's in your knowledge which make you void of wisdom

F2F

 

[face2face]

There are lots of “isms” invented by man……God doesn’t have any.

And no one can tell you what you don’t want to hear…..except Jesus……the judge of all of us will let us all know at “the end“ whether we have succeeded in making the grade…..fulfilling all that he taught without deviation, justification or excuse…none of which will be acceptable on that day.

“Few” will pass the test (Matt 7:13-14)…but I guess you don’t believe that Jesus would be so heartless as to ignore a person’s sincerity, even if they are mistaken in their acceptance of what is not truth?……after all he spoke of searching for the lost “sheep”…..but what if the sheep is not lost at all, but is exhibiting the traits of a “goat”? (Please excuse the irritating quotation marks as they refer to scripture.)

What then is the difference between a “sheep” and a “goat”?….they can sound similar, but not the same….and under Israel’s law both were equally “clean” for food, or when offered in sacrifice….so what is the difference that make one person a “sheep” and another, a “goat” and why do they need separating?

Goats have a trait that sheep do not…..sheep stick with the flock and fools the leader….they are thus protected in amongst many of their flock mates….goats OTOH are more independent and curious…they will often stray away from the herd to explore or to obtain food that they fancy. I have three goats who are pets, and their independent nature is obvious, and they will to do their own thing which makes them so different to the sheep we once had on the family farm. I really appreciate the difference, now that I have kept both.

So, will we know if we are a sheep or a goat until Jesus passes judgment? The answer is “no “, according to Jesus’ response to the goats in Matt 7:21-23 and in Matt 25:31-33; 41, 46. They have not proven their faith and obedience by their conduct, especially towards Christ’s elect……but instead have set their own standards of right and wrong (good and evil)…..the very thing God tried to avoid in the very beginning….

Listen…obey…and be blessed….sounds like a plan….

Palestine sheep and goats are similar but the shepherd can discriminate.

“the diseased” would be “the least of his brethren”! Ezek 34:21

The issue I have with this post is not what's said, it's what's in your mind that you want to say but for fear of rebuke, you wont.

JW doctrine cannot save you, if you believe you have God's ear and all His Truth.

F2F

 

[Debp]

But for the most part, I think fear rules Christianity.

I didn't get a straight answer to my question, but I'm guessing that
@Taken did NOT view the link about the miracles of Buddha.

Why?

To me, fear doesn't rule my Christian faith. Rather, I have peace with God through my Lord Jesus Christ.

I believe the Bible is the Word of God. Therefore, no need for me to read of any so called miracles by Buddha, who was a man. Buddha sought relief from the miseries of life by seeking to cast off any type of desire.

As a Christian I have peace with God...no need to look further.

 

[St. SteVen]

So you still believe in miracles, and speaking in tongues?

So you still believe the Body of Christ should be an amputee? (with body parts removed)
Time to re-read 1 Corinthians chapter 12. (vs 12-14) Hello?

[ cc: @Wrangler

 

[St. SteVen]

I think you know the answer…. Of course not.

As Aunty Jane said:

Stephen, have you ever considered the laws given to Adam? He was given basically only 3 laws, two of which brought pleasure: 1) cultivate the Garden (eventually extending its boundaries) - satisfying / fulfilling work; and 2/ “be fruitful and fill the Earth”, very (ahem) enjoyable.

And there was a 3rd law, the only prohibitive law: ‘don’t eat from that one tree.’

That was it! No others! A&E had no reason to “fear” Jehovah! He was no micromanager of their lives.

Now, compare that with the laws given to the Israelites!
Drastic difference! The Mosaic Law contained over 600 laws!

Why?

Because imperfect people need much more guidance.



So @St. SteVen , at God’s appointed time when all the benefits of Christ’s sacrifice come to be fully applied, & mankind is restored to perfection Rev.21:3,4), we will then experience the “freedom of the children of God.”— Romans 8:21

(I hope I’ll be there. All of us.)

I agree.
That wasn't a rebuttal, right?

Do you share my belief that God's law of human conscience reigned between the time of A&E and the time of Moses?
It's why Cain's murder of his brother was wrong. Not covered in the three laws given to A&E.

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com

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[St. SteVen]

To me, fear doesn't rule my Christian faith. Rather, I have peace with God through my Lord Jesus Christ.

I believe the Bible is the Word of God. Therefore, no need for me to read of any so called miracles by Buddha, who was a man. Buddha sought relief from the miseries of life by seeking to cast off any type of desire.

As a Christian I have peace with God...no need to look further.

I agree. Thanks.
I have observed that some/many(?) Christians would be in fear to learn about other religions.
In fear that if they knew the truth about these religions, they may lose their religion.
And more than that... end up in hell.

That's what I am addressing in this topic. (replies seem to confirm the fear)

There is the percentage of Christians that were motivated to join, and are held in, Christianity for fear of hell.
What I call spiritual extortion. (strong words, I know) But...

Does God honor that attitude of fear/terror toward him?
Does he embrace the cowering masses as his own precious children?

In essence some churches say: "Receive the free gift of eternal life. Or if you prefer, you will be incinerated."

I see this as a significant problem. And I am criticized by some for even pointing it out. (such is life)

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