Fear Rules Christianity - True or False?

[Aunty Jane]

How then do we evaluate the source of a miracle?

Good question…..so what do we classify as a “miracle”? To me the small blessings that happen daily are not “miracles”, such as took place in the first century. We are talking about supernatural things, not things that can be explained another way, but things that defy explanation in our natural world.

Does God only do miracles within the confines of Christianity, or perhaps none at all?

Another good question…..but again we need to ask…..”what is Christianity”? Does God look down at the hopelessly divided church system with its wide range of beliefs and practices, and see what his son initiated?
If Paul’s statement in 1 Cor 1:10 is the standard for being a “Christian”….then who qualifies?

”Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.”

How many ’branches’ of “Christianity” were there in the first century? The apostles were present to keep things on ‘the straight and narrow’, whilst Christian Scripture was being penned….but we are told that the the “wolves” were already trying to make inroads….so, after John’s last contribution, (to the final part of what is commonly referred to as the “New Testament”) Jesus warned that the devil would do to Christianity, exactly what he did to Judaism.….”while men were sleeping”. He would introduce the teachings of men and pretend that they came from God. (Matt 15:7-9) They would sound right to those who wanted their ears tickled, but given enough time, they would be accepted without question…and in fact, if one dared to question, they were silenced, often permanently. Same with Judaism. (Matt 23:37)

With the apostles now gone, there was nothing to stop what Jesus foretold…..so the basic question we have to answer is…..what about the “Christianity” we have chosen as “the one” founded on the teachings of Jesus? Is it really what it purports to be?….and have we chosen it because it suits what we want to believe, or because it practices what it preaches? And we need to ask “what does it preach” and “to whom does it it preach”?

If we go back to the beginning and start there, having a firm grasp of the Bible’s overarching message about God’s Kingdom and it’s appointed King, we will soon be able to tell the difference, as Malachi stated….…”And you will again see the distinction between a righteous person and a wicked person, between one serving God and one not serving him.” (Mal 3:18)

Jesus called them “wheat and weeds” or “sheep and goats”…..can we tell the difference? Jesus as our appointed judge can, because he sees what people are looking for in their “Christianity”.
Our hearts are impelling us to be, either one or the other, since there are no alternatives, and no fence to sit on whist we make our evaluation. Those rightly disposed will come to Christ because they have received an invitation from his Father. (John 6:44; 65)

So…what will be that “difference”? It will show in their beliefs and conduct, whether they interpret Scripture to justify what Jesus never taught (Exactly what the Jewish leaders did) or will they be a hated and persecuted minority as Jesus and his apostles and disciples were? (John 15:18-21; Matt 5:11-12)
People will more often gravitate to a convenient lie, rather than accept an inconveniet truth that forces them to make changes in their beliefs and attitudes.

So using the Bible as our only measuring tool, what do we see out there in Christendom? A cohesive singular group of Christians who all globally hold the same beliefs in common….or do we see the exact opposite?
For some we see that their nationality rather than a location, has a bearing on the name of their church….for others their identification is linked to a Bible theme…..but does the denomination make a scrap of difference if they are divided and failing to agree on so many things? Who is the creator of confusion? Not God.

Is antiquity a good basis for belief? Was it for the Pharisees and Sadducees in Jesus’ day? Did the fact that they had ruled God’s people for centuries make a scrap of difference to how they received the truth when Jesus preached it? Just the opposite…..they were so firmly entrenched in their errors that Jesus did not bother to preach to them, rather he condemned them outright as those deserving of “Gehenna”. (Matt 23:33) Jesus was sent to “the lost sheep” who were “lost” because their shepherds were too busy looking after themselves.

From my perspective, I see only “sheep and goats” and “wheat and weeds” clearly identified by what they preach and teach, mostly “to the converted” since they rarely venture from the comfort of their own churches. (Matt 24:14) If their reach is not global, then a local isolated church is not the right one.

Any push for ecumenism can be achieved only if they ignore their many differences and don’t talk about them. This is how “non-denominationalism” or “inter-denominationalism” works. But how does God view this situation? It was all foretold, so there are no surprises for him in what exists as “Christianity” today…..what we have at this juncture (with the imminent return of Christ as judge) exactly what was foretold.
Yet the ‘blinded’ majority will not see it. (2 Cor 4:3-4) They are so intent on making the Christian Faith fit their own criteria that they forget that God and Christ have their own, established long ago. “Few” will be found on the road to life. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23) There will be no excuses accepted by “the one who judges righteously”.

History is repeating right under our collective noses…..

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

Fear Rules Christianity - True or False?

not everything is simple as a true or false

 

[St. SteVen]

Good question…..so what do we classify as a “miracle”? To me the small blessings that happen daily are not “miracles”, such as took place in the first century. We are talking about supernatural things, not things that can be explained another way, but things that defy explanation in our natural world.

In post #46 I testified that a man was healed by God in my church.
He was unable to walk without a cane before I prayed for him.
Does that classify as a miracle?

[

 

[Aunty Jane]

In post #46 I testified that a man was healed by God in my church.
He was unable to walk without a cane before I prayed for him.
Does that classify as a miracle?

“Miracles” can be performed by the devil disguising himself as “an angel of light”.....what would be his agenda in doing something that appears to be good, when he has bad intentions....what is his aim?

Deception is his stock in trade.....if Jesus told us that the devil would create a counterfeit “Christianity” in “the world” (globally) and that he would sow his “weeds” “while men were sleeping” can you see his agenda? Only those in a spiritually drowsy state could have accepted what satan did to the Christian Faith.
And only when the apostles, who were the restraining influence to that foretold apostasy, were “asleep” in death could Jesus’ prophesy be fulfilled.

Satan has created a multitude of “Christian” churches who all believe the lies that he fed them, and they promote these divided churches as being from God......when nothing could be further from the truth. All those “churches” are of the devil’s making, not God’s.
If satan performs “miracles” to lead people to a “church” of his own making....how clever a deception is that? !

Spiritual babies need miracles and the devil knows how to woo them when they are having a hard time of it, enduring the worries, pain and suffering of this life.....none of which are from God. Most of our physical afflictions are from poor diet and lifestyle choices.....and a medical system that has a vested interest in ill health. The devil has cleverly manipulated humans into giving him the worship that should go to the true God, not this fake pretend god under the guidance of his deluded shepherds.

How many “lost sheep” were there in Israel? Jesus set out to find them....every one of them, precious in God’s sight.
How many “lost sheep” are trying to make sense of Christendom’s hopelessly divided church system, today? There is no way to make sense of it unless you see things through God’s eyes. He doesn’t see denominations...he sees only “sheep and goats”....”wheat and weeds”......every one of us is in one or the other of those two categories...regardless of what label we choose to wear.

That may be confronting to many....but it’s the gospel truth.

 

[Jack]

“Miracles” can be performed by the devil disguising himself as “an angel of light”.....what would be his agenda in doing something that appears to be good, when he has bad intentions....what is his aim?

Deception is his stock in trade.....if Jesus told us that the devil would create a counterfeit “Christianity” in “the world” (globally) and that he would sow his “weeds” “while men were sleeping” can you see his agenda? Only those in a spiritually drowsy state could have accepted what satan did to the Christian Faith.
And only when the apostles, who were the restraining influence to that foretold apostasy, were “asleep” in death could Jesus’ prophesy be fulfilled.

Satan has created a multitude of “Christian” churches who all believe the lies that he fed them, and they promote these divided churches as being from God......when nothing could be further from the truth. All those “churches” are of the devil’s making, not God’s.
If satan performs “miracles” to lead people to a “church” of his own making....how clever a deception is that? !

Spiritual babies need miracles and the devil knows how to woo them when they are having a hard time of it, enduring the worries, pain and suffering of this life.....none of which are from God. Most of our physical afflictions are from poor diet and lifestyle choices.....and a medical system that has a vested interest in ill health. The devil has cleverly manipulated humans into giving him the worship that should go to the true God, not this fake pretend god under the guidance of his deluded shepherds.

How many “lost sheep” were there in Israel? Jesus set out to find them....every one of them, precious in God’s sight.
How many “lost sheep” are trying to make sense of Christendom’s hopelessly divided church system, today? There is no way to make sense of it unless you see things through God’s eyes. He doesn’t see denominations...he sees only “sheep and goats”....”wheat and weeds”......every one of us is in one or the other of those two categories...regardless of what label we choose to wear.

That may be confronting to many....but it’s the gospel truth.

Nothing JW's say is Gospel! Just like when Aunty said Jesus' doctrines are SATANIC!

 

[Wrangler]

“Miracles” can be performed by the devil disguising himself as “an angel of light”

Still with the quotes! Miracles can also be performed by God, which brings him glory.

There were 2 miracles at my church in the last couple of years. Both men with sudden health problems. One needed brain surgery to remove not one but 2 tumors. 1,000's of Prayer warriors prayed for 24 hours. In the surgery room they performed another CT scan only to find no evidence of any tumors.

The 2nd example was the Pastor's brother-in-law who dropped dead at a basketball in front of over 1,000 witnesses. At the hospital, they were about to pronounce him dead when he suddenly got a pulse again, came back to life. The idea that these and countless other stories are works of the devil shows what a dark place JW are in to confuse good with evil. And we know this is good because of the fruit, which brings God glory - not the devil. How do you know Jesus was not the anti-Christ, performing all those miracles? What separates those miracles from the ones that occur today?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Still with the quotes!

What is your problem with quotes? They merely highlight the points I want to make or I am quoting Scripture. You appear to be easily irritated by very minor things for some reason….?
Do people have to tip toe around you?

Miracles can also be performed by God, which brings him glory.

Which god is that, Wrangler? Who else is seeking glory, but by deceit? Who invented a new god that Jesus and his Jewish audience never heard of……and managed to get the whole world serving him and buying into his false religion?

If the miracles were to cease as Paul said…putting the traits of a spiritual infant away, and taking on the more mature aspects of the Christian faith….(required for serving Jesus as he instructed in the all important preaching work)…..then why are so many of the miracles (the largely unreported failures) unsuccessful when not a soul in Jesus day went without a healing and they were performed on unbelievers or for the benefit of those who did not yet believe.….that is why God gave them….to bring people to his son. Jesus’ own siblings did not put faith in him until after his resurrection. he wasn’t a miracle worker until he received the holy spirit at his baptism.

They were a demonstration of what was to take place on a grand scale under the rulership of God’s Kingdom.….not to fix the problems of life but to show what will take place in the future…this is why they ceased.…nothing about them was yet permanent. All those who were cured died later anyway.
Those resurrected, died again too. In the new world to come, no one will ever have to get sick, or be born disabled, or die of any affliction or accident. The healings and resurrections will be permanent.

You don’t have to believe me, but your need to believe in present day miracles seems to be very ingrained….we are told to “walk by faith and not by sight” (2 Cor 5:7)…..even those with the “heavenly calling” (Heb 3:1) needed this stronger kind of faith……this need to see things is what leads people to idolatry.

There were 2 miracles at my church in the last couple of years. Both men with sudden health problems. One needed brain surgery to remove not one but 2 tumors. 1,000's of Prayer warriors prayed for 24 hours. In the surgery room they performed another CT scan only to find no evidence of any tumors.

Why him? why would God choose people at random who are already supposed to be Christ’s disciples?
It is obvious that many still want to “see“ rather than to exercise faith in what is not seen, as Paul said.

If health problems appear ‘suddenly’ think back to Job and ask who caused his sudden illness and tragedies?
If he can create a sudden illness, he can surely withdraw it to effect a cure for the unwary. He’s a deceiver….so much more clever than you or I. The desired effect is to mislead…..is it working?

The 2nd example was the Pastor's brother-in-law who dropped dead at a basketball in front of over 1,000 witnesses. At the hospital, they were about to pronounce him dead when he suddenly got a pulse again, came back to life.

Have you heard of narcolepsy Wrangler? People pronounced deceased by doctors in hospital, no heartbeat, not breathing…..but they woke up in the morgue. Is not a miracle or a resurrection, but a recognized medical condition. Nothing is proven here…unless you believe that the miracles of the Bible never ceased…..nd that is your prerogative. I don’t buy it….

The idea that these and countless other stories are works of the devil shows what a dark place JW are in to confuse good with evil.

Or you have no idea how successful the devil is when he presents himself as “an angel of light”….people’s willingness to be fooled about such things is playing right into the devil’s hands. We are not confusing good with evil but identifying one of the methods satan uses to deceive….are you a victim?

And we know this is good because of the fruit, which brings God glory - not the devil. How do you know Jesus was not the anti-Christ, performing all those miracles? What separates those miracles from the ones that occur today?

Again…..which god is getting the glory?…the one true God that Christ served or the “god of this world” who has succeeded in “blinding the minds” of those who can’t see past the event and understand why it is a scam perpetrated by the devil to deceive people into believing his deceptions. (2 Cor 4:3-4)

What separates those first century miracles from the ones today?….the one by whose power they are enacted. There are only two sources Wrangler…..and the Bible tells us that the miracles were not to continue and the reason why they ceased.

If you had to decide between the two today….how could you do so? If both appeared to be good and beneficial? The devil plays fallen humanity like a fiddle. I do not believe that God would compete with the devil and create even more confusion than what is already in this world. Do you?

 

[MA2444]

“Miracles” can be performed by the devil disguising himself as “an angel of light”.....what would be his agenda in doing something that appears to be good, when he has bad intentions....what is his aim?

Deception is his stock in trade.....if Jesus told us that the devil would create a counterfeit “Christianity” in “the world” (globally) and that he would sow his “weeds” “while men were sleeping” can you see his agenda? Only those in a spiritually drowsy state could have accepted what satan did to the Christian Faith.
And only when the apostles, who were the restraining influence to that foretold apostasy, were “asleep” in death could Jesus’ prophesy be fulfilled.

Satan has created a multitude of “Christian” churches who all believe the lies that he fed them, and they promote these divided churches as being from God......when nothing could be further from the truth. All those “churches” are of the devil’s making, not God’s.
If satan performs “miracles” to lead people to a “church” of his own making....how clever a deception is that? !

Spiritual babies need miracles and the devil knows how to woo them when they are having a hard time of it, enduring the worries, pain and suffering of this life.....none of which are from God. Most of our physical afflictions are from poor diet and lifestyle choices.....and a medical system that has a vested interest in ill health. The devil has cleverly manipulated humans into giving him the worship that should go to the true God, not this fake pretend god under the guidance of his deluded shepherds.

How many “lost sheep” were there in Israel? Jesus set out to find them....every one of them, precious in God’s sight.
How many “lost sheep” are trying to make sense of Christendom’s hopelessly divided church system, today? There is no way to make sense of it unless you see things through God’s eyes. He doesn’t see denominations...he sees only “sheep and goats”....”wheat and weeds”......every one of us is in one or the other of those two categories...regardless of what label we choose to wear.

That may be confronting to many....but it’s the gospel truth.

I'll try to see this from your perspective for the sake of conversation and see where the ramifications take us to.

If there are no miracles and hasnt been since the Apostles, then every single healing testimony is a lie, every supernayural help that has occured is a lie, correct?

So what are we to think of God if this is true?
Does God have no love or compassion for us His people?
Has He left us and foraken us?
Will He allow us to give Him the glory and thanks for help and miracles, when it wasnt Him, but some sort of lie from the devil?

So when the Lord came to me and spoke to me audibly, and told me to pray that a certain Brother in Christ gets help...that was the devil too?
What would satan gain from that? What has he stolen? Killed? Destroyed?

I'm sorry Aunty Jane, but that doesnt make sense to me. How about now, sine I have tried to see it from your perspective for the sake of conversation, can you do this too for a few moments?

Could it be, or is it even possible....that modern day christians are so scared of what they dont understand that they would be willing to reject a truth and call it a lie, when it was in fact true??

We know that the enemy can appear as an angel of light and decive the people. Look around you at your home and your life. How is he doing this. Satan does not come to my house to preach lies to me....or does he?

How are they programming the masses?
Is it with something called a tell-a-vision....?? Light comes out of it. It teaches and preaches daily.

Where is God in all of this? Doesnt He care? Has He no compassion. Will He let us walk right into deception and then on judgment day say, sorry fellows you lose?

That doesnt sound like the God I know. I think it is possible that so many christians are so pranoid about being deceived that their own fear leaves them in the dark and they reject the power of God to somehow be on the safe side? Like it talks about in

2 Timothy 3:1-7
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth..../KJV

So if they are christian and trying to follow Christ, but not accept all of His truth because of fear, in what way do we differentiate these christians from true christians?

(Now remember A.J., this is merely an exercise in thought and no one is implying anything about you. This is just for the sake of conversation).

If we cant even trust what the word says, then how can anyone find the Lord?

 

[MA2444]

Again…..which god is getting the glory?…the one true God that Christ served or the “god of this world” who has succeeded in “blinding the minds” of those who can’t see past the event and understand why it is a scam perpetrated by the devil to deceive people into believing his deceptions. (2 Cor 4:3-4)

Are you saying that every time I praise God for the miracles He has done for me...that Satan steals that glory and praise somehow for himself?

 

[Wrangler]

What is your problem with quotes?

It shows your contempt for the topic under discussion, refusing even to accept the words used by those who have a different doctrine than you do. We are talking about miracles. There is no need to put the word in quotes. Check the dictionary.

Why him? why would God choose people at random who are already supposed to be Christ’s disciples?
It is obvious that many still want to “see“ rather than to exercise faith in what is not seen, as Paul said.

It's obvious that some do not want to believe despite miracle happening all around them. I don't know why him - and I don't have to know why God chose these 2 men in my church. One speculation I have is to reinforce the faith of the chosen, particularly that prayers work and work powerfully and, at times, miraculously.

I and 1,000's others praise God all the more. That's the part you keep overlooking; the fruit of the Spirit. This is how we know it is of God for he is glorified not the devil. This story spread like wildfire, just like when Jesus performed miracles back in the day.

narcolepsy ... Is not a miracle or a resurrection, but a recognized medical condition.

Semantics. You really are a willful unbeliever! Just because there is a technical name for the event prior to the miracle, does not mean the miracle did not occur! Death and resurrection is not a medical condition. And the science of medicine has no natural explanation for how these dead people come back to life; this is the text book definition of a miracle.

As usual, you fall back to deconstruction to support your doctrine. Sad.

Nothing is proven here…unless you believe that the miracles of the Bible never ceased…..nd that is your prerogative. I don’t buy it….

Yes, I know this to be true that miracles from God (not the Bible?) did not cease after Bible times. And you have proven nothing to support your claim that they did cease and all apparent signs and wonders after that are the work of the devil, as you allege.

we are told to “walk by faith and not by sight” (2 Cor 5:7)

The idea that recognizing a miracle from God is abandoning faith is absurd on its face. People of the Bible believed because of the evidence and Christ said as much:

even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father
John 10:38

There are only two sources Wrangler…..and the Bible tells us that the miracles were not to continue and the reason why they ceased.

Odd for you to make a Biblical claim without actually citing a verse. THE EXACT OPPOSITE IS TRUE!

Joel 2:28-30

The LORD Will Work Wonders​

The LORD said:​

28 Later, I will give my Spirit
to everyone.
Your sons and daughters
will prophesy.
Your old men
will have dreams,
and your young men
will see visions.
29 In those days I will even give
my Spirit to my servants,
both men and women.
30 I will work wonders
in the sky above
and on the earth below.
There will be blood and fire
and clouds of smoke.

Which god is that, Wrangler?

We are done.

 

[St. SteVen]

Wrangler said:
Still with the quotes!

What is your problem with quotes?

I certainly understand this use of quotes. I know I do it too.
It helps to highlight a word, or phrase. Especially one you don't particularly agree with.
Perhaps my favorite is "proof-texts". - LOL

[

 

[MA2444]

Odd for you to make a Biblical claim without actually citing a verse.

I wonder what the verse is too.

 

[Wrangler]

I certainly understand this use of quotes ... Especially one you don't particularly agree with.

The word "miracle" does not pertain only to works of God, by definition. Therefore, there is no basis to object to its usage in this context EVEN IF her claim is correct that it is the work of the devil.

If the devil baked an apple pie, it is an apple pie. No need to say the work is "apple pie."

Regarding the use of "proof-texts," that is a proper use of quotes because someone is claiming something qualifies while you are denying the claim. The parallel would be if you denied proof-texts existed at all.

 

[MA2444]

I dont believe in Cessationism.. That the miracles cesaed with the Apostles. If that were true, then A.A. Allen was decived and never healed anyone? Smith Wigglesworth deceived? Anyone who has ever had a healing ministry was deceived?

I dont buy it. I'm not saying that there are no fakes in healing ministries, I'm saying...They all werent lying or deceived. There's been too many of them and many healing testimonies are documented by the doctors. Someone wracked with cancer or tumors...the night before the operation the patirnt prays for healing. The next day the cat scan cant find any trace of cancer or tumors. They say...We cant explain it.

No it is not cessationism. It is something else.
White picket fence syndrome in the Christian Community? I dunno.

 

[St. SteVen]

“Miracles” can be performed by the devil disguising himself as “an angel of light”.....what would be his agenda in doing something that appears to be good, when he has bad intentions....what is his aim?

I think if the enemy was using miracles for his own benefit then we would see that as an end.
Do those that receive miraculous healing run after Satan and away from Jesus? Not seeing that.

The enemy has come to steal, kill, and destroy...

[

 

[Wrangler]

The enemy has come to steal, kill, and destroy...

And the enemy has NOT come to glorify God.

 

[rockytopva]

My reply in a new thread...

The Fear Inspiring Yankee God

I was born in North Carolina on a Marine Corp base and traveled the US. As a pre-teen we moved to the North where I was brought up in a cold, dull, dry, Protestant church and considered myself an Agnostic Atheist, but went to church for fear of eternity. I would look out at the winter Michigan...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[rockytopva]

One reason I cannot be hard on those who have bad feelings towards Christianity is because I would have turned out the same way if I were brought up in like environment.

 

[Aunty Jane]

It shows your contempt for the topic under discussion, refusing even to accept the words used by those who have a different doctrine than you do. We are talking about miracles. There is no need to put the word in quotes. Check the dictionary.

As usual your hair trigger is leading you to false accusations....there was no “contempt” intended...just quotation marks to highlight the subject matter or a pertinent scripture. You are apparently easily irritated by your own evaluation of what you thought I meant, not necessarily what was actually said.

It's obvious that some do not want to believe despite miracle happening all around them. I don't know why him - and I don't have to know why God chose these 2 men in my church. One speculation I have is to reinforce the faith of the chosen, particularly that prayers work and work powerfully and, at times, miraculously.

I and 1,000's others praise God all the more. That's the part you keep overlooking; the fruit of the Spirit. This is how we know it is of God for he is glorified not the devil. This story spread like wildfire, just like when Jesus performed miracles back in the day.

As I have mentioned repeatedly Wrangler, if God’s miracles and the devil’s fake ones were operating in the world together, who would be able to tell the difference? The “angel of light” trick works so well for the devil as he masquerades as something he is not. Whatever benefit comes out of his tricks is for himself because he is taking credit in disguise....laughing at those he has deceived.
People imagine that they are praising the true God when he is nothing but a pathetic imitator. His signs and wonders were foretold....

2 Thess 2:9-12...
“But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie,12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.”

There it is...plain as day....”powerful works”...”lying signs and wonders”....and “every unrighteousness deception” for whom?.....“Those who are perishing”......Why are they to perish Wrangler? Because God allows their disobedient hearts to accept the lies as truth.....they want to hold on to their errors because they have “no love for the truth”.....the truth is unacceptable to them....they like the lies better....but it is a delusion...a deception.

Why does God allow this deception? Because people like the idea that God is performing miracles for them. Satan knows that we humans are easy to fool......lack of Bible knowledge in us, is his best weapon. No one can be fooled by the devil unless God permits them to. Do you understand why? ‘No one comes to the son without an invitation from his Father’. (John 6:65) That makes our destiny dependant on how well we follow the teachings Jesus gave us, and those of the apostles who were taught by him also convey his same message.

1 Peter 5:8...
“Keep your senses, be watchful! Your adversary, the Devil, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour someone.” Good advice there....who is this roaring lion seeking to devour? Anyone he can fool.

The only “miracle” the devil cannot perform is raising the dead.....but he could give someone narcolepsy and pretend to raise them. He is a deceiver after all...and a good one. Do you never contemplate these things? Who is running this show? (1 John 5:19)

Semantics. You really are a willful unbeliever! Just because there is a technical name for the event prior to the miracle, does not mean the miracle did not occur! Death and resurrection is not a medical condition. And the science of medicine has no natural explanation for how these dead people come back to life; this is the text book definition of a miracle.

As usual, you fall back to deconstruction to support your doctrine. Sad.

Wow....an explanation based on Scripture is “deconstruction” is it? We are not supposed to use Scripture to provide the basis for our beliefs? I love the way you always fall back on your own explanations as if they somehow dismiss all the Scriptural evidence that is presented to you. No one can prove you wrong.....except one. You will have to offer your excuses to him, like we all do.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Yes, I know this to be true that miracles from God (not the Bible?) did not cease after Bible times. And you have proven nothing to support your claim that they did cease and all apparent signs and wonders after that are the work of the devil, as you allege.

Read 2 Thess 1:9-12 in the post above....Paul said the gifts would cease because seeing miracles was only a first step to believing for those who wanted proof that Jesus was the son of God....the miracles could not be duplicated by the Pharisees and it infuriated them that he was gaining ground with their sheep....although they were pathetic shepherds.

Paul wrote at 1 Cor 13:8-13....
“Love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. 9 For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, 10 but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, to think as a child, to reason as a child; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the traits of a child. 12 For now we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known. 13 Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love.”

See that little word “now”? This meant that the miracles no longer formed the basis for bringing people to the Christian Faith.....NOW, (or from then on) the more mature aspects of the Faith were to be emphasised.
“Faith, hope and love” would form the basis for being, or becoming a Christian....knowledge of the Scriptures would now create strong faith in Jesus as the Christ, and serve as a basis for serving the same God that he did.

The idea that recognizing a miracle from God is abandoning faith is absurd on its face. People of the Bible believed because of the evidence and Christ said as much:

even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father
John 10:38

Yes, “the works” of Jesus Christ himself were proving that he had the power of God’s spirit, but when he left, that power was passed on to others who continued to exhibit these miraculous gifts, but as Paul mentioned quite clearly, the traits of a spiritual child had to be left behind (they were to cease) as these Christians “grew up” and were taught that the basis for Faith was now knowledge of all that Jesus taught.

Most especially was it necessary to “know the only true God” and also to know the one he “sent”. (John 17:3) In today’s world of divisive Christian denominations, who can say that they really “know” “the only true God and the one he sent”? There are so many versions of “Christianity”.....how are we to know which one is right? Satan has made sure that the choice is as difficult as it can be....but if God is the one reading hearts and issuing his invitation, then we can rest assured that our destiny is determined by how well we obey his teachings in everything. All Jesus taught was from his Father. (John 7:16)

Odd for you to make a Biblical claim without actually citing a verse. THE EXACT OPPOSITE IS TRUE!

I hope I have provided enough verses now Wrangler.....?
The opposite is not true....you speak of the miracles of the first century and no one can doubt them....we are speaking about modern day miracles and who will be attracted by them?

The cures that took place in the first century were mainly out of doors and many people witnessed them, sometimes thousands at a time....with the feeding of the thousands that Jesus performed with a couple of loaves of bread and a few fish....he cured them of their infirmities first, so that pain or suffering would not impede or detract from the impact of his sermon. (Matt 14:14-22)

Joel 2:28-30

The LORD Will Work Wonders​

The LORD said:​

28 Later, I will give my Spirit
to everyone.
Your sons and daughters
will prophesy.
Your old men
will have dreams,
and your young men
will see visions.
29 In those days I will even give
my Spirit to my servants,
both men and women.
30 I will work wonders
in the sky above
and on the earth below.
There will be blood and fire
and clouds of smoke.

And that prophesy was fulfilled in the first century.... with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 C.E.....and the salvation of those who followed through on Jesus’ command to “flee to the mountains”....but, as it was a dual prophesy pertaining to our time when Christ was to return....we will again see God’s spirit moving people to do what what Christ commanded in Matt 28:19-20....and yet, do we see the churches engaged in that work? Jesus sent his disciples out to the people....he did not tell them to sit in a building waiting for people to wander in. (Matt 10:11-14) It was a search and rescue mission....and people’s lives were at stake. Jesus said he would be “with” his disciples in this work right down to “the end”.

Who is he with Wrangler? Those looking for miracles whilst they ignore his command? It wasn’t just a recommendation for those who could do what he was asking....it was a command and it carried responsibilities. (Ezekiel 3:17-21)

We are done.

OK...you can take your fingers out of your ears now, and strap on your gun and watch out for those evil-doers whom you might be called on to shoot before they shoot you.....(Rom 12:17-21)

Your choices are yours to make.....I am only a messenger....