Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[Ritajanice]

I’m going to leave you guys to it for the time being, I have to say it’s fascinating reading from both sides..personally it’s far to high for me to fully understand...I’m very happy just Living with my simple faith..

I commend you all for the studies that you have done....I see you are all extremely passionate on what you all believe, which I admire, for what it’s worth.

 

[RLT63]

Could be. But that is beyond what Scripture actually says. So, one speculation is as good as another. Certainly not definitive.

I’m not sure why it does not bother Trinitarians that they have to read into Unitarian text, their doctrine all the time.

Almost got a like on that post

 

[Wrangler]

Almost got a like on that post

Almost? Not enough grace in that trinitarian heart? LOL

 

[Ritajanice]

Almost? Not enough grace in that trinitarian heart? LOL

I think you’re a jolly good sport ,wrangler, lol.

 

[David in NJ]

Why would I believe something that the Bible does not teach?
Jesus never even mentioned himself as part of a triune godhead.
You are as stuck in false beliefs as you ever were...removing yourself from the RCC did you no favours, if all you did was carry their doctrines over to your new ‘home’....

Elohim is the plural of excellence/majesty, not a statement about how many different personalities God has.
Jesus Christ spoke with his Father in heaven whilst he was on earth…..how does one God split himself into three different persons who can apparently all talk to one another, and be in different places at the same time? The God of Israel was not that God. Yahweh was “ONE” not three. (Deut 6:4)

You worship a god invented by the RCC, so you didn’t run very far did you? You never acknowledge the Scripture provided to you to demonstrate how erroneous the trinity is…but there is no correcting someone who can’t be wrong.

We will all stand before the same judge…..

There is still time to find “the only true God”…..and to identify “the one he sent” (John 17:3)…..(heaven knows why we don’t need to “know” the Holy Spirit)…..but you will never find the true God if you stop looking….and accept a counterfeit god invented by satan’s church system.

Why would I believe something that the Bible does not teach?

In FACT you reject what the Bible does Speak and Teach


1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep.
And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2He was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
4In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
5And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

 

[ProDeo]

there is no there there. Scripture says he is a man, which means by definition, he is not divine.

You missed the fact that God hates human sacrifice?

 

[Wrangler]

You missed the fact that God hates human sacrifice?

Changing the subject, from sacrifice to something that is not true, Christ divinity.

Let's focus on Christ divinity

there is no there there. Scripture says he is a man, which means by definition, he is not divine.

 

[ProDeo]

Changing the subject, from sacrifice to something that is not true, Christ divinity.

No change of subject, I will repeat and this time don't avoid and respond on the offered Scripture

Deut 12:31 You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way, for every abominable thing that the LORD hates they have done for their gods, for they even burn their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods.

Deut - 18:10 There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer.

God hates human sacrifice, yes?

God refused Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, right?

So what was the sacrifice on the cross, a human sacrifice or a divine sacrifice?

Can't be a human sacrifice since God hates human sacrifice, right?

 

[Wrangler]

No change of subject, I will repeat and this time don't avoid and respond on the offered Scripture

I am not responding to Scripture but your abuse of it, pretending it teaches Jesus is define when it teaches he is a man. It's so funny you want to get away with an unsupported claim, that Jesus is define, what that is the debate! LOL

 

[Wrangler]

God hates human sacrifice, yes?

God refused Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, right?

So what was the sacrifice on the cross, a human sacrifice or a divine sacrifice?

Can't be a human sacrifice since God hates human sacrifice, right?

This is what I call a back door rationalization for what is not an explicit teaching in Scripture.

Who loves human sacrifice? No one. Yet, throughout human history sacrifices have been made. Trump recently reminded us 38,000 military troops were sacrificed to build the Panama Canal. If you read Scripture, you will find that God - in fact - sacrificed many to his glory, including the Egyptian military and Egyptian first born sons.

More sacrificed in Iraq and in dropping atomic weapons. The Secretary of State says it was worth it.

God tested Abraham's faith by requiring that he sacrifice his only son. This is not a God who opposes human sacrifice in all circumstances. It's so odd that you word your question that God refused what he commanded! In the end, he stayed the execution for Abraham proved himself.

What had to be sacrificed on the cross was a human sacrifice and certainly not divine.

1. Scripture says repeatedly and explicitly that Jesus is a man. So, no back door rationalization that he is not a man.
2. God is eternal and cannot die. Jesus died on the cross. This is the strongest proof that Jesus is NOT God.
3. Scripture says Jesus is the 2nd Adam. What was the 1st Adam? A man - and nothing but a man.

 

[RLT63]

This is what I call a back door rationalization for what is not an explicit teaching in Scripture.

Who loves human sacrifice? No one. Yet, throughout human history sacrifices have been made. Trump recently reminded us 38,000 military troops were sacrificed to build the Panama Canal. If you read Scripture, you will find that God - in fact - sacrificed many to his glory, including the Egyptian military and Egyptian first born sons.

More sacrificed in Iraq and in dropping atomic weapons. The Secretary of State says it was worth it.

God tested Abraham's faith by requiring that he sacrifice his only son. This is not a God who opposes human sacrifice in all circumstances. It's so odd that you word your question that God refused what he commanded! In the end, he stayed the execution for Abraham proved himself.

What had to be sacrificed on the cross was a human sacrifice and certainly not divine.

1. Scripture says repeatedly and explicitly that Jesus is a man. So, no back door rationalization that he is not a man.
2. God is eternal and cannot die. Jesus died on the cross. This is the strongest proof that Jesus is NOT God.
3. Scripture says Jesus is the 2nd Adam. What was the 1st Adam? A man - and nothing but a man.

Well, Jesus was a man, some say he still is and will always be.
Some say he poured out his divinity when he became flesh.
Some say he was God and man.
And you say he was just a man.
He was a man. The other details are subject to different beliefs depending on who you ask

 

[Wrangler]

Some say he poured out his divinity when he became flesh.

This is one of the most blatant appeals to mysticism trinitarians reach for.

I agree, pouring out makes it Jesus, along with human nature to be a container.

However, emptying the contents of a container does not change the nature of the container.

 

[RLT63]

This is one of the most blatant appeals to mysticism trinitarians reach for.

I agree, pouring out makes it Jesus, along with human nature to be a container.

However, emptying the contents of a container does not change the nature of the container.

There wasn't a container until he was conceived

 

[Wrangler]

There wasn't a container until he was conceived

No. You cannot claim Jesus was, in effect, a container, emptying himself and then when scrutinized, change the subject to another container.

 

[RLT63]

No. You cannot claim Jesus was, in effect, a container, emptying himself and then when scrutinized, change the subject to another container.

He poured out his divinity is what some claim, I don't know if he did but I can't see where he would have a body before he was born.
You'll have to take this up with someone else because I don't know.

 

[ProDeo]

I am not responding to Scripture but your abuse of it, pretending it teaches Jesus is define when it teaches he is a man. It's so funny you want to get away with an unsupported claim, that Jesus is define, what that is the debate! LOL

LOL what you want.

This is what I call a back door rationalization for what is not an explicit teaching in Scripture.

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."
-- Mark Twain

 

[ProDeo]

What had to be sacrificed on the cross was a human sacrifice and certainly not divine.

You are in direct conflict with Scripture.

Deut 12:31 You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way, for every abominable thing that the LORD hates they have done for their gods, for they even burn their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods.

Deut - 18:10 There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer.

Lev 18:21 - You shall not give any of your children to offer them to Molech, and so profane the name of your God: I am the LORD.

God hates human sacrifice.

 

[Wrangler]

You are in direct conflict with Scripture.

Repeating a lie does not make it true. What follows exposes every abuse of Scripture in a desperate attempt to back door what Scripture does not teach.

Deut 12:31 You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way, for every abominable thing that the LORD hates they have done for their gods, for they even burn their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods.

Jesus was not sacrificed to the LORD by the people. Rather Jesus was God's sacrifice for us. Also, Jesus was not burned.

Deut - 18:10 There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer.

Again, Jesus was not burned.

Lev 18:21 - You shall not give any of your children to offer them to Molech

Jesus sacrifice was not offered to Molech.

Scripture teaches Jesus was a man. It teaches explicitly and repeatedly that there is only one true God of the Bible, YHWH, who we relate to as father.

 

[Wrangler]

He poured out his divinity is what some claim, I don't know if he did but I can't see where he would have a body before he was born.
You'll have to take this up with someone else because I don't know.

My friend, No need to flee the field of ideas. You put the container argument up for discussion. Let us discuss it. No need to rely on other's argument ability. Let's see together if it holds up to scrutiny.

Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together

 

[RLT63]

My friend, No need to flee the field of ideas. You put the container argument up for discussion. Let us discuss it. No need to rely on other's argument ability. Let's see together if it holds up to scrutiny.

Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together

I don't know. No need to pretend