Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[Ritajanice]

We have left in here considerable resources for any and all to come to a true knowledge of the Master.

I didn’t need any resources from any forum to become Born Again, so , I must say that what you say is false, in the sense of becoming Born Again.

That for me came by supernatural divine heart revelation...no Bible or preaching from a forum was needed .our spirit must be Born Again, which comes by divine heart revelation, just as Gods word says.

 

[Ritajanice]

You have a great deal of ignorance Rita, said sincerely.

Then please show me my ignorance and challenge me on what I post @face2face ..thank you.

5:19 My brothers and sisters, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone turns him back, 5:20 he should know that the one who turns a sinner back from his wandering path will save that person’s soul (life) from death and will cover a multitude of sins Jas 5:19–20.

If you understood how God and Jesus work through us (God manifestation), you wouldn't lack confidence so much, and perhaps you'd be more willing to embrace the truth when it's right in front of you!

Sorry, I don’t embrace what I believe to be “ your truth”..I have yet for you to show me my errors @face2face ?

F2F

Reading the word without the Spirit, does not bring you to any truth.

First you must be Born Again in your spirit, only then can the Holy Spirit start leading you through God’s word, only he can bring it to our understanding in our spirit, which for me has taken years and years to mature in the Spirit, we never stop growing and maturing ,until the day we die.

Reading scripture can only bring you truth, if one is Born Of The Spirit...without the Spirit we know nothing.

The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods Children.

We are no longer earthly children when we are Born Again, we are spirit children of the most high.

We start our spiritual journey with the Lord @face2face ...the moment our spirit is reborn/ regenerated/ Born Again....we are in this world, but we are not of this world any longer...we belong to the Spirit Of God..spirit children...please show me @face2face where I don’t speak out the word of God?

 

[Ritajanice]

5:19 My brothers and sisters, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone turns him back, 5:20 he should know that the one who turns a sinner back from his wandering path will save that person’s soul (life) from death and will cover a multitude of sins Jas 5:19–20.

How does one know when one is in Gods truth?

How do you even know that God and Jesus are who they say they are ?

Just by reading a Bible?

Anyone can read a Bible, there is much more to knowing God than reading the Bible....we must know God in our hearts/ spirit, when our spirit becomes reborn/ Born Again.only then does God recognise us as his spirit children.

 

[face2face]

How does one know when one is in Gods truth?

Now that's a good question!

 

[Ritajanice]

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1 Corinthians 2:14 ►

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Audio Cross Study Comm Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. New Living Translation But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means. English Standard Version The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. Berean Standard Bible The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned Walking by the Spirit (Ezekiel 36:16–38; Romans 8:9–11) 16So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.17For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want.18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery;20idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us walk in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying one another.

 

[Taken]

Question:
According to You…Does God have a God?

God can not have a God.....

Thank you for your answer.
We do not agree.

Today 1-18-2025 Donald J. Trump (Citizen of the USA) HAS a President (named Joseph R. Biden)…

On 1-21-2025 WILL Donald J. Trump (Citizen of the USA)….HAVE a President?
Yes or No?

If Yes, what will Donald J. Trumps’ Presidents’ Name be?
Of No, Why not?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ritajanice]

You have a great deal of ignorance Rita, said sincerely.

5:19 My brothers and sisters, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone turns him back, 5:20 he should know that the one who turns a sinner back from his wandering path will save that person’s soul (life) from death and will cover a multitude of sins Jas 5:19–20.

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Isaiah 43:11 ESV / 50 helpful votes​

I, I am the Lord, and besides me there is no savior.

Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV / 36 helpful votes​

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

John 14:6 ESV / 31 helpful votes​

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Acts 4:12 ESV / 23 helpful votes​

And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Hebrews 5:9 ESV / 22 helpful votes​

And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,

John 14:1 ESV / 19 helpful votes​

“Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me.

Romans 6:23 ESV / 16 helpful votes​

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 3:36 ESV / 16 helpful votes​

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

 

[TheHC]

Ah, crummy Greek scholarship. I think it should be translated, "; and the God it was". More so, qualitative means we think it should be like an English mass noun or multicount singular noun.

What?

 

[Johann]

When didn't he?

Correct and while Jesus was in the flesh he could not also!

who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen. 1 Tim 6:16

The irony is this – Jesus was unable to enter the Holy Place, let alone the Holy of Holies during his probation!

You understand this David?

@APAK @Wrangler

I don't believe David does understand - few do, @Johann might?

F2F

Are you a hyper literarist?

J.

 

[Johann]

Now that's a good question!

@Ritajanice has a tender faith in Jesus-don't crush it.


The scripture reference is Isaiah 42:3:

"A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth."

This is also quoted in the New Testament in Matthew 12:20:

"A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory."

That it might be fulfilled ... - Matthew here quotes a passage from Isa_42:1-4, to show the “reason why he thus retired from his enemies and sought concealment.” The Jews, and the disciples also at first, expected that the Messiah would be a conqueror, and vindicate himself from all his enemies.

When they saw him/Jesus retiring before them, and, instead of subduing them by force, seeking a place of concealment, it was contrary to all their previous notions of the Messiah. Matthew by this quotation shows that “their” conceptions of him had been wrong.

Instead of a warrior and an earthly conqueror, he was “predicted” under a totally different character. Instead of shouting for battle, lifting up his voice in the streets, oppressing the feeble - “breaking bruised reeds and quenching smoking flax, as a conqueror” - he would be peaceful, retiring; would strengthen the feeble, and would cherish the faintest desires of holiness. This appears to be the general meaning of this quotation here. Compare the notes at Isa_42:1-4.

J.

 

[Johann]

But this meaning is totally incongruous and has no parallel in the New Testament record.) Then, of course, there is God the Father's own directive to the Angels concerning Jesus the son of God: "and let all the Angels of God worship him" (Heb. 1:6). The fact that Jesus is worship by Thomas as he falls at his feet and honors him with the confession, "My Lord and my God!" Too many presents the final proof that Jesus is God (John 20:28).

False dichotomy.

Scriptural Basis for Worshiping Jesus
Worship Directed to Jesus:

Matthew 2:11: The Magi, upon finding the infant Jesus, "fell down and worshipped him," signifying that worship of Jesus was appropriate even during His earthly ministry.

John 9:38: After Jesus healed a man born blind, the man declared, “Lord, I believe,” and "worshiped Him." Jesus did not rebuke this act of worship.

Matthew 14:33: After Jesus calmed the storm, the disciples in the boat "worshiped Him, saying, 'Truly you are the Son of God.'"

Hebrews 1:6: God commands the angels to worship Jesus, stating, “Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

Worship in the Heavenly Realm:
Revelation 5:12-14: Jesus, the Lamb of God, receives worship alongside the Father. The heavenly beings declare, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain,” and worship both "Him who sits on the throne and the Lamb."

Philippians 2:10-11: "At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Bowing and confessing are acts of worship.

2. Jesus' Divine Identity
Jesus as "Lord" (Κύριος) and "God" (Θεός):

John 20:28: Thomas addresses Jesus as “My Lord and my God!” Jesus does not correct Thomas but affirms his declaration.

Titus 2:13: Paul refers to Jesus as “our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.”

Hebrews 1:8: The Father speaks of the Son, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever.”

Jesus’ Equality with the Father:

John 1:1: “The Word was God.” Jesus (the Word) is clearly identified as divine.

John 5:18: Jesus made Himself equal with God by claiming God as His own Father, which was recognized by His opponents.
John 10:30: Jesus declares, “I and the Father are one.”

Colossians 2:9: “In Him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily.”

3. The Father's Affirmation of Jesus' Worthiness

Matthew 17:5: At the Transfiguration, God the Father says of Jesus, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; listen to Him.”

Hebrews 1:6: The Father explicitly commands the angels to worship the Son.


True Worship Includes the Son:

John 5:23: Jesus states, “That all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.”

1 John 2:23: "No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also."

Jesus and the Father Share Glory:

John 17:5: Jesus prays, “Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.”

Isaiah 42:8: God declares that He will not share His glory with another, yet Jesus shares in the Father’s glory, indicating His divine status.

5. Misrepresentation of Trinitarian Worship

Your claim incorrectly asserts that Trinitarian theology disregards worship directed to the Father. Trinitarian belief holds that worship is directed to the Father, through the Son, in the Spirit (e.g., Ephesians 5:20, Colossians 3:17). Worship of the Son does not exclude the Father; rather, it glorifies the Father because the Son perfectly reveals Him.

6. Prayer to the Holy Spirit
While Scripture does not record explicit prayers to the Holy Spirit, it affirms His divinity:

Acts 5:3-4: Ananias is accused of lying to the Holy Spirit, equated with lying to God.
The Holy Spirit is involved in worship and glorifies the Son (John 16:14). Worship directed to the Spirit is implicitly worship directed to God.

7. Conclusion
The biblical evidence overwhelmingly supports that Jesus is worthy of worship because of His divine nature, His role as Redeemer, and the Father’s explicit command. Your argument presented fails to address the totality of Scripture and imposes a false dichotomy between worship of the Father and the Son. Worshiping Jesus is not idolatry but is in perfect harmony with the worship of the one true God.

J.

 

[face2face]

Are you a hyper literarist?

J.

You don't know what light unapproachable means?

 

[face2face]

@Ritajanice has a tender faith in Jesus-don't crush it.

Rita and I have had numerous discussions, and none of them have shown me that she has any genuine interest in what the Bible teaches—only the many voices that fill her mind.

A sharper sword than mine is coming Johann and I hope you are ready to receive its sharpness.

F2F

 

[ProDeo]

Rita and I have had numerous discussions, and none of them have shown me that she has any genuine interest in what the Bible teaches—only the many voices that fill her mind.

A sharper sword than mine is coming Johann and I hope you are ready to receive its sharpness.

F2F

Fortunately for her you are not the final arbiter.

 

[face2face]

Fortunately for her you are not the final arbiter.

Firstly she will need to heed what the Word of God teaches - I hope she can prepare herself for this.

 

[face2face]

"the stock that your right hand planted, and for the son whom you made strong for yourself" Psalm 80

Once you see the truth @ProDeo you see it everywhere!

F2F

 

[face2face]

@Johann

You missed this?

The irony is this – Jesus was unable to enter the Holy Place, let alone the Holy of Holies during his probation!

Do you know why?
Why could your Almighty God not enter a building made with hands?

I've tested your spirit more the most Johann, and for the most it has always come up short.

F2F

 

[face2face]

But let your hand be on the man of your right hand, the son of man whom you have made strong for yourself! Psalm 80

This is a beautiful Psalm that connects to Jacob's blessing of Joseph in Genesis 49:22, highlighting God's care for His vine and the vengeance He will bring against those who harm it!

It's time to set aside the misguided ideas of the early church fathers and place your confidence in the Apostles and in Christ himself.

F2F

 

[Johann]

@Johann

You missed this?

The irony is this – Jesus was unable to enter the Holy Place, let alone the Holy of Holies during his probation!

Do you know why?
Why could your Almighty God not enter a building made with hands?

I've tested your spirit more the most Johann, and for the most it has always come up short.

F2F

Your claim that Jesus was unable to enter the Holy Place or Holy of Holies during His "probation" misrepresents the biblical teaching.

Jesus, as the eternal High Priest, entered the true Holy of Holies in heaven by His own blood, fulfilling and surpassing the typology of the earthly sanctuary.

There is no scriptural basis for suggesting that Jesus was in any way limited or on probation regarding His priestly role or access to the presence of God.

Friend, I must step away from this discussion-there are some deeply misguided and heretical ideas being presented here, and I choose not to engage further in them.

J.

 

[Ritajanice]

Rita and I have had numerous discussions, and none of them have shown me that she has any genuine interest in what the Bible teaches—only the many voices that fill her mind.

Unfortunately you have never been able to challenge my posts and show me where I am in error?

You need to know God in your spirit, before you can even start to understand the Bible, ?

No good reading the Bible without the leading of the Spirit?..plus our spirit needs to be Born Again.

How else can you know God @face2face ?

A sharper sword than mine is coming Johann and I hope you are ready to receive its sharpness.

F2F

Proverbs 6:17-23TPT. Putting others down while considering yourself superior, spreading lies and rumors, spilling the blood of the innocent, plotting evil in your heart toward another, gloating over doing what's plainly wrong, spouting lies in false testimony, and stirring up strife between friends.