Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[face2face]

..plus our spirit needs to be Born Again.

Ironically, the very theme you have so much confidence in is where you fell short. Do you remember? It was like Johann asking for a verse to show that Jesus was redeemed, and I provided two. Yet, there’s never any acknowledgment from you (or Johann). You stated the Word of God had nothing to do with being born again and you were proven wrong (again).

No growth without humility to learn!

When the foundation of someone's faith is tested and found to be established on false teaching, it can lead to a crisis of belief. I've witnessed some experience despair through doubt, confusion, and instability. They must reevaluate their understanding of God, Scripture, and their relationship with faith. There is a very real danger in this thread that Trinitarians need to be mindful of.

However, if they build on a stronger foundation, the renewal will be liberating.

F2F

 

[Johann]

Rita and I have had numerous discussions, and none of them have shown me that she has any genuine interest in what the Bible teaches—only the many voices that fill her mind.

A sharper sword than mine is coming Johann and I hope you are ready to receive its sharpness.

F2F

I sincerely hope a moderator is reviewing this-your goading of others online with such a self-righteous attitude is inappropriate and should be addressed.

J.

 

[Ritajanice]

Firstly she will need to heed what the Word of God teaches - I hope she can prepare herself for this.

Firstly we must be Born Again to understand the word of God...The Holy Spirit brings it to our understanding, are you denying that?

Secondly , please enlighten me on that I will need to heed what the word of God teaches.

Thirdly, how do you know that the Bible is the written word of God?

Or better still @face2face how on earth could I possibly know that the Bible was written under the influence of the Spirit?

Maybe you can answer that question also?...trying to get a spiritual understanding of where you are coming from that is all.

 

[Ritajanice]

Ironically, the very theme you have so much confidence in is where you fell short. Do you remember? It was like Johann asking for a verse to show that Jesus was redeemed, and I provided two.

what in Jesus needed to be redeemed?...Jesus is our redeemer, what in us needs to be redeemed ?

Yet, there’s never any acknowledgment from you (or Johann). You stated the Word of God had nothing to do with being born again and you were proven wrong (again).

Sorry, you have proved nothing..please prove what I say below isn’t biblical?
Our spirit is Born Again ,supernaturally, the written word is Gods confirmation of His Living word, who happens to come to us by the Living power of the Holy Spirit ....we are supernaturally Born Of The Spirit, Gods word confirms this..

I stated that the Bible has got nothing to do with being Born Again...that comes by divine heart revelation...please show me in the Bible where words can bring our spirit Alive in Christ?

No growth without humility to learn!

When the foundation of someone's faith is tested and found to be established on false teaching, it can lead to a crisis of belief. I've witnessed some experience despair through doubt, confusion, and instability. They must reevaluate their understanding of God, Scripture, and their relationship with faith. There is a very real danger in this thread that Trinitarians need to be mindful of.

However, if they build on a stronger foundation, the renewal will be liberating.

F2F

Yet, not one of your posts has shown anyone that I am a false teacher.

My foundation is in the Living word of God, His Living Holy Spirit...my foundation is not in the Bible.

The Bible is Gods conformation Of His Living Truth...God is not the Bible, God is a Living Spirit.who indwells the heart/ spirit of his children.

Instead of attacking my faith...please confront my posts and show me my errors..thank you @face2face ?

 

[Ritajanice]

However, if they build on a stronger foundation, the renewal will be liberating.

Christ Our Foundation
(Isaiah 28:14–22; Ephesians 2:19–22; 1 Peter 2:1–8)

10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames.

God’s Temple and God’s Wisdom
(Romans 12:1–8; 1 Corinthians 6:18–20)

16Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple, and that God’s Spirit dwells inb you? 17If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him; for God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.

18Let no one deceive himself. If any of you thinks he is wise in this age, he should become a fool, so that he may become wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness.”c 20And again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”d

21Therefore, stop boasting in men. All things are yours, 22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephase or the world or life or death or the present or the future. All of them belong to you, 23and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God.

 

[Ritajanice]

and their relationship with faith

Can you explain what their relationship with Faith means please?

How do we build a foundation in Christ, we must be Born Again, only then do we have our foundation in Christ, in which we can build our faith upon....faith is a gift from God , because it came supernaturally from God, it will keep growing and keep getting stronger......Faith and trust in God’s Spirit and his word takes time to grow and build......I believe we are all at different levels of faith.

They must reevaluate their understanding of God @face2face said...RJ asks, maybe you can tell us your understanding of who God is?

The Bible tells us who God is, we must also have a Living testimony from the Spirit of God, to know who he is in our spirit, how else can we know God if not by Gods Living testimony his Living Holy Spirit?

Why must we be Born Again in our spirit?

How do we communicate with God?

Anyone can read a Bible, does that mean that they are communicating with God via their spirit?

We can’t communicate with God without being Born Of The Spirit?

Would you deny any of the above?..if so, please explain?

 

[Wrangler]

The Docterine of the Trinity is of the Devil!!!

It is to take the Greatest Commandment... and twist it in to... Satan's tradition of men!

Mar 12:28 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?" 29 Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;


Trinitarians Teach 3 Lords in one...

Yea.... The Docterine of the Trinity has had Christians... Killing and Murdering ... other Christians!!!

So is that the teaching of GOD or the Devil???

Extremely well put. I look forward to a thoughtful response.

 

[Wrangler]

Why can't we just love one another?

IDOLATRY. Love of dogma is its 1st Commandment.

 

[Johann]

The Docterine of the Trinity is of the Devil!!!

It is to take the Greatest Commandment... and twist it in to... Satan's tradition of men!

Mar 12:28 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?" 29 Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;


Trinitarians Teach 3 Lords in one...

Yea.... The Docterine of the Trinity has had Christians... Killing and Murdering ... other Christians!!!

So is that the teaching of GOD or the Devil???

Personally I think you have become unhinged and should consider another vocation.

J.

 

[Wrangler]

1 Tim 6:16

Great verse! And around it also
15 For, At just the right time Christ will be revealed from heaven by the blessed and only almighty God, the King of all kings and Lord of all lords. 16 He alone can never die, and he lives in light so brilliant that no human can approach him. No human eye has ever seen him, nor ever will. All honor and power to him forever! Amen.

Trinitarians might want to be confused about who is the "him" referred to here. However, a little reading comprehension will go a long way. In v15, Christ is the object of the sentence, being acted upon. He will be revealed by the only almighty God. which is not Jesus.

V16 no human eyes have ever seen him or ever will refers to this only almighty God. We know this is NOT referring to Jesus because many saw Jesus then and now.

 

[Wrangler]

There is NO power in you/ me to win anyone to Christ...

If this were true, then why the Great Commission?

 

[Johann]

Great verse! And around it also

Forgetting context-

1Ti 6:13 I charge thee, before God, who is making all things alive, and of Christ Jesus, who did testify before Pontius Pilate the right profession,
1Ti 6:14 that thou keep the command unspotted, unblameable, till the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Ti 6:15 which in His own times He shall shew—the blessed and only potentate, the King of the kings and Lord of the lords,
1Ti 6:16 who only is having immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable, whom no one of men did see, nor is able to see, to whom is honour and might age-during! Amen.
1Ti 6:17 Those rich in the present age charge thou not to be high-minded, nor to hope in the uncertainty of riches, but in the living God, who is giving to us all things richly for enjoyment; —

J.

 

[Ritajanice]

If this were true,

Water baptism?....tell me how you can baptise in the power of the Holy Spirit?...

I guess it can be done under God’s authority...but there is no authority in you @Wrangler ...not from my understanding of God’s word ...imo.

then why the Great Commission?

Are you able to save a non- believers spirit?

Can you give birth to spirit?..I don’t think so.

If so how?

All we can do is sow seeds...you can be used by God in bringing someone to Christ, but, you can’t forgive their sins and bring their spirit Alive in Christ, only the Living Spirit can do that..I’ve also posted scripture that says only God can save.

Isaiah 43:11 ESV / 50 helpful votes​

I, I am the Lord, and besides me there is no savior.

Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV / 36 helpful votes​

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

John 14:6 ESV / 31 helpful votes​

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Acts 4:12 ESV / 23 helpful votes​

And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Hebrews 5:9 ESV / 22 helpful votes​

And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,

John 14:1 ESV / 19 helpful votes​

“Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me.

Romans 6:23 ESV / 16 helpful votes​

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 3:36 ESV / 16 helpful votes​

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

 

[Wrangler]

Can you explain what their relationship with Faith means please?

I just watched a vid about this last week. It renders the word loyalty or fidelity or trust. I've noticed that our culture bashes anyone who has loyalty to another person. Our lord and his God do not have to be the only persons we have loyalty with or for.

Let me give you an example. Years ago I heard a story separately from the 2 participants, my father and my sister. My father confided that he felt my sister was taking advantage of him baby sitting by not giving him advance notice that she needs him to baby sit.

A few days later my sister brought it up. From her perspective, he never went anywhere and was always home. (I don't know if that is actually true). Anyway, she said she did not understand why my father wanted advanced notice. The recent scenario she has a dinner reservation made several days in advance. My reply was that you do not have to understand; you only need respect his request. This is faith in relationship, loyalty to the other, yes?

 

[Wrangler]

Are you able to save a non- believers spirit?

Rita, I asked a question. If you cannot answer 'if we cannot save people then why is there a great commission,' just say you cannot explain it.

For the record, you are confusing subjects. Our job is to make an introduction to Christ. His job is to save them. We sow, he reaps.

 

[Ritajanice]

I just watched a vid about this last week. It renders the word loyalty or fidelity or trust. I've noticed that our culture bashes anyone who has loyalty to another person. Our lord and his God do not have to be the only persons we have loyalty with or for.

Let me give you an example. Years ago I heard a story separately from the 2 participants, my father and my sister. My father confided that he felt my sister was taking advantage of him baby sitting by not giving him advance notice that she needs him to baby sit.

A few days later my sister brought it up. From her perspective, he never went anywhere and was always home. (I don't know if that is actually true). Anyway, she said she did not understand why my father wanted advanced notice. The recent scenario she has a dinner reservation made several days in advance. My reply was that you do not have to understand; you only need respect his request. This is faith in relationship, loyalty to the other, yes?

My Son is like that, he takes me for granted, there’s a rule for him, as in boundary...I have no boundaries, LOL...

Exactly, it’s all about respect...” both ways”.

 

[Ritajanice]

Rita, I asked a question. If you cannot answer 'if we cannot save people then why is there a great commission,' just say you cannot explain it.

I asked you a question, so, why can’t you explain and answer my question.

How can you birth someone in the Spirit, except by divine intervention? @Wrangler ?

I did answer your question, I take it that you didn’t understand my answer?

I have no problem admitting if I dot understand a question, I did understand your question and answered it.

For the record, you are confusing subjects. Our job is to make an introduction to Christ. His job is to save them. We sow, he reaps.

Our job is to be led by the Holy Spirit...we do not make an introduction to Christ in our own strength, been there done that, we must wait on the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit births..then we are saved..you can’t put the cart before the horse.

We are supernaturally birthed = by supernatural divine heart revelation?

Our spirit must be reborn/ Born Again...= Living Spirit birth.

 

[Ritajanice]

We sow, he reaps.

He reaps?

Only God can open a heart to receive his Living Spirit...when it becomes Born Again...everyone’s testimony is different....

We can baptise in water...once again only Gods Living witness His Living Holy Spirit can baptise in the Spirit....we have no power over the supernatural rebirth....

I have no idea what you and @face2face believe the rebirth to mean?..

 

[Wrangler]

My Son is like that, he takes me for granted, there’s a rule for him, as in boundary...I have no boundaries, LOL...

Exactly, it’s all about respect...” both ways”.

In my divorce, I learned there are 3 non-substitutable foundations for ANY positive, healthy relationship:

1. Integrity
2. Respect
3. Responsibility

The virtue of integrity leads to the emotion of trust. I'm not sure why but some people think they have veto power on having to respect another if they "don't understand" the boundary the other person draws.

My ex-wife was most guilty of lacking emotional responsibility. She kept trying to get me to take responsibility for how she felt. It was a manipulative tactic. She just could not take responsibility for how her actions hurt the relationship. She dismissed accountability on the grounds that she "was emotional." Near the end, I told her that having emotions is not a "get out of jail free card" in acting with impunity. She was horrified.

Getting back to faith in relationships, my father was amazed that I instantly understood the dynamic with my sister and his right to set boundaries was not being respected. "Not understanding" is a ploy to attempt to get away with not living up to your responsibilities in the relationship.

It's that way with God. He does not provide full knowledge to us. We are not expected by him to take the next step only on the condition that we understand. Rather, he expects us to take that next step because we trust him. I've said this to my current wife. When I yell "Duck!" don't stubbornly stand there and demand a full explanation. Act. Now. Or there will be negative consequences. Faith based relationships are so much better!

 

[Wrangler]

I asked you a question, so, why can’t you explain and answer my question.

Because I asked first. I don't know where this lack of humility is coming from but I'll bow out of this now.