Elect or Not Elect: Why ALL Should Be Alarmed

[Christian Soldier]

CONTINUED FROM THE PREVIOUS POST...

Mark 8:15 And he charged them, saying, take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, it is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? 18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? 19 When I broke the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. 20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. 21 And he said unto them, how is it that ye do not understand?

In the verses above, Christ is giving His disciples a lesson on the spiritual language of God's Word - His language:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

At this point in time (before they were converted at Pentecost), the disciples had received the Early Rain of the Spirit but had not yet received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain of the Spirit). And because of such, they were still spiritually blind and could not understand the spiritual language of Christ.

Christ ends His comments above by asking the disciples this question: “How is it that ye do not understand?” No response from the disciples is recorded in scripture. However, Christ answers His own question in the very next four verses.

Mark 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. 25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Since Christ is the Word of God, He teaches us not only through His words which are recorded in scripture but also by the things that He did. In answering the question that He proposed to the disciples in verse 21, Christ goes to Bethsaida and gives us His answer in type by the healing of a blind man.

In verse 23, Christ leads a blind man out of the city. Once outside the city, Christ places spit on his eyes and touches him with His hands. These actions occur as the blind man is looking down which symbolizes the carnal aspect of His healing. Christ does not have to tell the blind man to look down, the blind man just does it naturally. The spit (water) symbolizes the blind man receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit with its accompanying vision (carnal understanding). This event represents the time when an unbeliever is called out from the world and enters the church.

After Christ asks the man what he could see, the man looks up and says that he could see men "walking as trees". "Walking as trees" is a spiritual symbol for called out believers who walk by sight (the flesh, carnal nature) rather than by faith & the Spirit. The man’s blindness was not total any longer but he was still very near-sighted and could only see Christ carnally. Paul stated that this near-sighted type of understanding will only allow a believer to see "Christ and Him crucified" (1Cor 2:2). This means that the new believer can see Christ's physical work that He did under the Old Covenant, but Christ's spiritual work that He is presently doing under the New Covenant will remain blurred.

This first healing of the blind man reflects the true spiritual condition of a new believer when they first enter the church. At this time, the believer is left carnally minded and spiritually near-sighted. They can see a little, but that only opens the door to Satan's carnally based deceptions - deceptions which each new believer will readily accept due to their carnal nature still being in control of them (Mat 12:43-45, Mat 24:24 & Luke 5:39).

For a carnally minded and spiritually blind believer (Early Rain only), the Old Wine still tastes better than the New Wine:

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desires the new: for he says, The old is better.

The Old Wine represents the Old Covenant which is based on the works of man. The New Wine represents the New Covenant which is solely based on the spiritual works of Christ.

Peter says that this near-sighted condition is the same as being blind:

2Pet 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Peter makes this statement because the believers to whom he was addressing were mixing their own works with faith. They were still preferring the Old Wine.

In the final verse of the story of the blind man, Christ lays His hands upon the man’s eyes again, but as He does, Christ has the man look up instead of down. This second healing represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit when true spiritual vision is given to a believer. The man’s upward gaze represents the spiritual aspect of the healing in contrast to the carnal aspect when the blind man was looking down at the earth.

From that moment onward, we now know that the blind man is a type for a called AND chosen believer who has received both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit (James 5:7-8). The man has been given eyes that can see spiritually ("drawn from the breasts" Isa 28:9). From his new ability to understand God's Word, he will then come out from Satan's deceptions and will begin walking by faith. He will be included in the resurrection of the First Fruits and will receive the reward of life during the ages.

Joe

Dear Sir, I won't be able to respond to every point you made as there are just too many to deal with. But I saw a lot of red flags reading through the above two posts. The red flags represent unbiblical opinions.
The most obvious one is your private unbiblical opinion regarding the "Early Rain and Later Rain of the Spirit". I have never heard of such a thing before, so I will dismiss it as a false opinion.

Secondly, you claim that a believer can lose his salvation. This is another false private opinion, which cannot be supported by any scriptures.

Thirdly, your claim about the "elect being saved under a different dispensation or covenant to those who are saved at a later time". This is heresy, because Christ refutes your opinion, because He described those whom He came to redeem as one people. After He redeemed them, He said "it is finished". Someone has deceived you by false Doctrine (I call it the doctrine of Demons). The work of redemption was finished for all of Gods elect, on the cross, there are no more for Him to save in the future.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Dear Christian Soldier,
You said:
The Bride of Christ (the Church) is made up of elect Saints, from every age. So it consists of believers who died over the past 6000, those who are living now and those who are yet to be born. God chose every single one of them before He created the world. That's what my Bible and my Shepherd tell me. Your interpretation is completely foreign to me, I've never heard of anything like it before so I can't accept that you have discovered some new truth or revelation, which my God appointed Shephard missed.

Your statement above matches to what I have been teaching. I can't imagine how you have come to believe that my understanding is contrary to that statement.

In this age, Christ is only saving the Elect - those chosen from the foundation of the world. They are saved not by anything that they did or will do. They are saved because Christ made the decision to do His spiritual work within them which changed their heart and mind. When His work is finished within them, they will be a "perfect man". The Elect are His workmanship.

To be saved, a person must go through the conversion process. The conversion process is 100% the work of Christ and the individual contributes nothing to it. The individual merely responds to Christ's work that He does within them.

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

The reason my overall understanding of scripture is foreign to you is because it contradicts the teachings of the 40,000 (not sure how you came to such a high number) different denominations of the apostate church. The one common factor all those apostate denominations have is that they teach a gospel that mixes works with faith. Some will claim that they don't believe in man's free will ability but when you examine their beliefs, it become clear that they do. I have never found even one denomination that is not apostate.

When a believer mixes works with faith, they are committing the sin that leads to death (loss of salvation). After this happens, the only thing that can restore the believer is the return of Christ where He pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. In this age, Christ will only return to the Elect. The many millions and millions of apostate believers in the 40,000 different denominations will not see His return before they die. That is how Christ causes His Elect to be saved while leaving the others unsaved.

If you can't agree with those statements above, then you are following Satan's false gospel and are apostate. This is a not a personal criticism of you because Christ causes EVERYONE who is called to be a saint (Early Rain of the Spirit) to fall away and become apostate (even His Elect). I was an apostate believer up until I was converted at the age of 44. If you take my comments as a personal criticism, it can mean that you are trying to add your own works to your salvation. When a believer adds their own works, they are saying that they don't really believe that Christ's works are sufficient to save them.

Most apostate believers take credit for their confession of faith and/or repentance. When they do, they are stealing from Christ who is the one who caused their confession to happen in the first place. He causes it to happen when He gives the person the Early Rain of the Spirit. Without the Spirit, they would never make a confession of faith nor would they even have a desire to seek Him out. As a result, they have no choice but to remain an unbeliever until they die. No amount of preaching would be able to change it.

This verse applies:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

You said:
At the end of the day, what you or I believe doesn't matter at all. The only thing that matters is that the truth remains the same forever, regardless of what we chose to believe. God is not mocked by any mans false doctrine, for every man will reap what he sows. God doesn't reward people based on how accurate their interpretation of the bible is, He's not impressed by our wisdom. He will reward us according to our works and not according to what theology we subscribe to.

Without an understanding of the truth, a believer cannot be converted because judgment comes from having the truth of God within oneself. If a believer does not have the truth, they cannot not be saved.

John 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

The "sword" represents the Word of God which is truth. It is by that sword that Christ slays our carnality.

Isa 66:16 For by fire (judgment) and by his sword (God's Word) will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Truth is what slays the man of sin (an apostate believer):

2Thes 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth (Spirit of Truth), and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The Spirit of Truth is the Latter Rain of the Spirit and is what causes judgment to fall on a believer.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The Apostles received the Spirit of Truth/Latter Rain of the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost. That is when they were converted and saved. And that is the same spiritual process that must happen to the other Elect for them to be converted and saved, too.

Back to your comments that you made above; those comments are coming from a "works" based belief system which you have applied to God's Word. That "works" based system comes from a person's carnality which has been made "worse than the first" by the spirit of anti-Christ. Filtering the truth of God's Word through that works based belief system is what causes a believer to become apostate.

When a person comes unto the knowledge of the truth, it happens ONLY because Christ healed their spiritual blindness so that the Marriage Supper of the Lamb/Lord's Supper can take place. The truth of Christ will remain concealed otherwise. No man has the ability to understand Christ without Christ first causing it to happen. That is what this "type" teaches below:

CONTINUED TO THE NEXT POST...

What you preach is contrary to my statement, in that you believe lost sinners in hell will get a second chance to receive Jesus as Lord and Savior at some later time. If that were true, then God would be a liar.
I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that my Church teaches "Grace plus Works" gospel. I have consistently rejected that idea as being a false doctrine, or as like to call it (Doctrine of Demons).
You know I belong to an independent non denominational Reformed Church, nobody outside of our local congregation has any say or influence over us. So it wouldn't make sense to suggest that we are somehow influenced by any false doctrines. Our highest authority is the Bible and we have no other authorities to answer to or be influenced by.

 

[One 2 question]

Our highest authority is the Bible and we have no other authorities to answer to or be influenced by.

I'm assuming by this statement you are excluding our Creators Who are above, above all, in heaven.

I practice putting my mind up there in heaven, by faith, where our Creators communicate with me and I with Them. I don't need a go between God and I, no matter who it is. Be it Moses, Paul, Luther, Calvin, Billy Graham, Joel Osteen, John Macarthur or any of the contributors of the bible as they are all of this world below.

I am more than content to go straight to their Source, our Creators in heaven.

 

[christsavedme]

There's a power controlling the world that's responsible for the constant unrest and turmoil and many Christians blame Leftists, Bankers, Islam, Jews, etc., even "right wing" extremists (which are only "extreme" to those who've moved so far left that God, if He exists at all, must be a woman). The truth is that all these agencies are controlled by Satan via a network of Luciferian secret societies whose members are sworn to the strictest secrecy as they pass the torch from one generation to the next, going about their clandestine work of moving the nations toward the final climactic battle between good and evil, controlling politics, education, judicial systems, mass media, and even religion through the papacy in Rome, Satan's "Antichrist" which claims to "take the place of Christ" - the very definition of the term - and a well organized Jesuit Order under which all these secret societies operate. Of course, God is keeping these in check for now, as the angels hold back the "winds of strife" - but soon, those winds will begin to blow hard upon the Earth.

Since the end time deceptions could, if possible, deceive even the very elect, why are so many opposed to "conspiracy theories" - a disparaging term invented by the CIA to discourage public questioning of "official" reports? Christians, being forewarned that deception would define the very end times in which we live, ought to be those most well armed against deception - so the fact that so many scoff at "conspiracy theories" while swallowing whatever is spooned out by CNN or Fox News, by Leftist ideology or popular Conservatism, is strong evidence they may not be among the elect at all, which is most alarming.

Therefore, all Christians ought to be in a constant state of alarm and readiness, either because of the clear and present danger all around us, or because they've been blinded by deception. It's up to us to ensure we're following the "Biblical Jesus" and not some "false christ" preached to us by those who are themselves deceived.

While it is understandable to be concerned about the influence of various groups and ideologies, we must be cautious not to fall into the trap of attributing all evil to human conspiracies. The Bible tells us that our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms (Ephesians 6:12). This means that our primary battle is spiritual, and it requires spiritual weapons: faith, prayer, and the Word of God.

The term "conspiracy theory" can indeed be dismissive, but it is also vital to approach such theories with a balanced perspective. We must seek truth earnestly and avoid becoming entangled in unfounded or divisive speculations. The Apostle Paul advised Timothy to avoid godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge (1 Timothy 6:20).

As for the institutions you mention, including the papacy and various political entities, it is beneficial to critically evaluate their actions and teachings. However, it is equally crucial to avoid broad generalizations and to seek understanding and dialogue where possible. The history of the Church, for instance, includes both failures and profound contributions to humanity, and it requires a nuanced view.

In preparing for the end times, we should focus on living out our faith with integrity and compassion, being vigilant but not fearful. Trust in God’s sovereignty and His ultimate plan for redemption. He is in control, and His love and justice will prevail.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Dear Sir, I won't be able to respond to every point you made as there are just too many to deal with. But I saw a lot of red flags reading through the above two posts. The red flags represent unbiblical opinions.
The most obvious one is your private unbiblical opinion regarding the "Early Rain and Later Rain of the Spirit". I have never heard of such a thing before, so I will dismiss it as a false opinion.

Secondly, you claim that a believer can lose his salvation. This is another false private opinion, which cannot be supported by any scriptures.

Thirdly, your claim about the "elect being saved under a different dispensation or covenant to those who are saved at a later time". This is heresy, because Christ refutes your opinion, because He described those whom He came to redeem as one people. After He redeemed them, He said "it is finished". Someone has deceived you by false Doctrine (I call it the doctrine of Demons). The work of redemption was finished for all of Gods elect, on the cross, there are no more for Him to save in the future.

Dear Christian Soldier,
You said:
Dear Sir, I won't be able to respond to every point you made as there are just too many to deal with. But I saw a lot of red flags reading through the above two posts. The red flags represent unbiblical opinions. The most obvious one is your private unbiblical opinion regarding the "Early Rain and Later Rain of the Spirit". I have never heard of such a thing before, so I will dismiss it as a false opinion.

The Early and Latter Rain concept is a part of the farming analogy used in scripture to teach the pathway to salvation. It is not understood or taught by the apostate churches in the world. They are blind to it.

Consider the marriage analogy used in scripture. It likewise teaches the pathway to salvation but uses different symbols. The Early Rain of the Spirit occurs when a person becomes "espoused" to Christ. The Early Rain of the Spirit is what makes them into a "chaste virgin". But since the Early Rain leaves the new believer spiritually blind, carnally minded and unconverted, Satan quickly deceives them and causes them to "fall away". When this happens, the believer is spiritually fornicating with Satan and causes them to lose their virginity (no longer chaste). To restore Christ's prospective bride, Christ will return to the fallen way believers who are "chosen" and give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With the Latter Rain of the Spirit, Christ will appear and take his chaste virgin back with Him to heaven for the "Marriage of the Lamb" to occur.

You said:
Secondly, you claim that a believer can lose his salvation. This is another false private opinion, which cannot be supported by any scriptures.

I am always amazed when a person makes this false statement because there are MANY scriptures which teach this truth about losing one's salvation. It happens when a believer commits the one and only sin that leads to death which is to mix their own works with faith.

1John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Paul describes it below using the example of circumcision:

Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

And here:

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and age-enduring judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift (Early Rain of the Spirit), and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come 6 if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance: seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The truth is ALL new believers will fall away and lose their salvation. This is the apostasy that Paul said would happen shortly after his death. It happens to all new believers because they remain spiritually blind after they have entered the church. Satan then comes to them at "night" (time of a new believer's spiritual blindness) and plants his seed within them, too. With both the Holy Spirit and the spirit of anti-Christ within the new believer, they will try to serve TWO MASTERS. When this happens, their house will be divided and will fall (lose their salvation. This is taught in the Parable below. Do you have "eyes" that can see the truth of what the parable teaches?

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed (Early Rain of the Spirit) in his field (mankind/one person): 25 But while men slept, his enemy (Satan) came and sowed tares (spirit of anti-Christ) among the wheat (the child of God/Elect), and went his way. 26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest (time the believer receives the Latter Rain, 1Sam 12:17): and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn (this is the conversion event).

You said:
Thirdly, your claim about the "elect being saved under a different dispensation or covenant to those who are saved at a later time". This is heresy, because Christ refutes your opinion, because He described those whom He came to redeem as one people. After He redeemed them, He said "it is finished". Someone has deceived you by false Doctrine (I call it the doctrine of Demons). The work of redemption was finished for all of Gods elect, on the cross, there are no more for Him to save in the future.

When Christ said "it is finished", He was only referring to His physical work that He had to do under the Old Covenant. You are misunderstanding Him because salvation also requires Christ spiritual work that He is now doing under the New Covenant.

Just as Paul said about the Corinthians believers who had only received the Early Rain of the Spirit, you are are only seeing "Christ and Him crucified" (1Cor 2:2). In other words, you can only see the physical work of Christ because you are still spiritually blind. The spiritual work of Christ that He is now doing under the New Covenant is what converts a person from a child of the Devil into being a child of God.

I made a post to another member this morning concerning how Christ saves all mankind. I will copy it into a second post. I strongly encourage you to read it.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

Dear Sir, I won't be able to respond to every point you made as there are just too many to deal with. But I saw a lot of red flags reading through the above two posts. The red flags represent unbiblical opinions.
The most obvious one is your private unbiblical opinion regarding the "Early Rain and Later Rain of the Spirit". I have never heard of such a thing before, so I will dismiss it as a false opinion.

Secondly, you claim that a believer can lose his salvation. This is another false private opinion, which cannot be supported by any scriptures.

Thirdly, your claim about the "elect being saved under a different dispensation or covenant to those who are saved at a later time". This is heresy, because Christ refutes your opinion, because He described those whom He came to redeem as one people. After He redeemed them, He said "it is finished". Someone has deceived you by false Doctrine (I call it the doctrine of Demons). The work of redemption was finished for all of Gods elect, on the cross, there are no more for Him to save in the future.

Dear Christian Soldier,
Here is that post:

You said:
Actually, the majority of mankind will perish (Mat 7:13,14).

Here are the verses:

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The people who are cast into the Lake of Fire in the final age are headed for destruction because death is the penalty of sin. However, you are not taking into consideration what these verses below say.

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Psa 119:160 The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures forever.

The truth of God's Word is concealed from carnal mankind in many ways. One of the ways that an apostate believer does not take into account is that Christ teaches "here a little and there a little". You cannot take one verse of scripture and make assumptions about it. You must look to other scripture in order to "see" the whole truth of the matter.

When you read Mat 7:13-14, you are ignoring a great deal of scripture in order to support your false beliefs. You need to learn from scripture in the prescribed way that scripture teaches a believer to follow.

Below are verses you need to consider so that you don't make false assumptions on Mat 7:13-14 as you are doing.

All judgment has been given to Christ:

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

When the "lost" in final age are judged by the Law, Christ is the one who administers their judgment. When He does, He will not administer the Law in the same way as you and the Pharisees do.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Christ will not omit mercy and faith when He administers the Law to the "lost". Why do you keep insisting that He will? I have presented this verse above to you before but you ignore what it states.

When Christ administers the Law to the "lost", He will show them MERCY before they perish. Why? Because Christ is not willing that any should perish:

2Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

If Christ is not willing that any should perish, who is going to stop Him from having mercy upon the "lost"?

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

The Father has given Christ all the authority of administering judgment upon mankind. Since Christ says that He will not omit mercy in a person's judgment and that He is not willing that they should perish, what do you think is going to happen?

This is what will happen:

Christ's mercy will come to the "lost" in the form of the Early Rain of the Spirit. The Early Rain of the Spirit is what gives a carnal person their FAITH. This is the only way that a person can have faith because scripture says that no man can call Jesus "Lord" unless they have the Holy Spirit (1Cor 12:3).

So what value is faith to the person?

Faith is what makes Christ's pathway straight for Him to come to the person and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. When Christ comes to the person, they will be converted. The newly born child of God will then be removed from Christ's judgment because the new child of God is without sin and will not be judged.

So how is JUSTICE satisfied?

JUSTICE is satisfied by the destruction of the child of the devil who will remain in the Lake of Fire (under judgment) until he perishes.

In the way that I described above is how Christ will add MERCY, FAITH AND JUSTICE to a lost person's judgment in the Lake of Fire. This entire process is called "conversion" and is the work that Christ will do to save mankind - just as the Father sent Him to do:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Where is your faith to believe what Christ has stated in all the verses I presented above?

And what about your faith to believe the verses below:

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

After Christ has converted the last person in the Lake of Fire, this scripture below will be testified to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

If you believe that the scripture should be translated as "desires" instead of "will have", the scripture itself would not make any sense. Can't you see that? I'll explain it below.

If Christ only desires to saved mankind, that is an emotion. An emotion can be testified to be true in the present because it does not require anything to happen. But when the verse is translated as "will have", it does require something to happen in the future (due time). After it has happened, it can only then be "testified" to be true.

But even if the verse should be translated as "desires", you need to apply this verse to your understanding (a little here and a little there).

Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, that will he do.

Christ is mankind's God and even if He only desires to save all mankind, "that will he do".

You need to really ask yourself if you have any faith in God's written Word, because to me, I can't see that you do. You have your preconceived beliefs which have been taught to you by "ministers of Satan". Because of those false beliefs, you seem to be willing to twist or ignore certain scriptures so that those beliefs don't die.

You need the Latter Rain of the Spirit to open your eyes to the truth - and as scripture says, you should pray for it:

Luke 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

What you preach is contrary to my statement, in that you believe lost sinners in hell will get a second chance to receive Jesus as Lord and Savior at some later time. If that were true, then God would be a liar.
I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that my Church teaches "Grace plus Works" gospel. I have consistently rejected that idea as being a false doctrine, or as like to call it (Doctrine of Demons).
You know I belong to an independent non denominational Reformed Church, nobody outside of our local congregation has any say or influence over us. So it wouldn't make sense to suggest that we are somehow influenced by any false doctrines. Our highest authority is the Bible and we have no other authorities to answer to or be influenced by.

Dear Christian Soldier,
You said:
What you preach is contrary to my statement, in that you believe lost sinners in hell will get a second chance to receive Jesus as Lord and Savior at some later time. If that were true, then God would be a liar.

Salvation is not a "chance". You only believe it is a "chance" because you believe that mankind must contribute their own works in order to be saved (even if is is only their repentance and/or confession of faith).

God's Word proclaims that salvation for mankind is a certainty and not a "chance". I have shown you many scriptures that say so. Have you ever considered that when you say that Christ will fail to save all mankind that you are making Christ out to be a liar and a sinner (missing the mark)?

Don't you know that Christ never fails at anything He sets out to accomplish, especially a task that is given to Him by His Father (1John 4:14)?

If you have read my post above to the other member, it explains how Christ saves the "lost" in the Lake of Fire.

You said:
I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that my Church teaches "Grace plus Works" gospel. I have consistently rejected that idea as being a false doctrine, or as like to call it (Doctrine of Demons).

Just your statement above about having a "chance" for salvation indicts that you believe in mixing works with faith. You believe that mankind must act upon Christ's "offer" of salvation in order to receive salvation. This is not taught by scripture. Scripture teaches that Christ will do the spiritual work within a person that will cause them to repent and to accept Him as Lord. The individual has no ability to do it on their own. When a person does repents and accepts Him as Lord, they only do it because Christ changed their heart and mind beforehand by freely giving them the Spirit.

If Christ didn't act first within a person, the person would never repent or accept Him as Lord.

Christ is the Savior and He does 100% of the work to save a person. He saves a person by coming to them without their asking or permission. He then freely gives them the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. With the full amount of the Spirit, the person's heart and mind are changed and they are "born again". The person has no say in the matter as to whether or not Christ will do this work within them - Christ simply does it because He desires to save them.

In this age, Christ has said that He is only going to save the people who have been chosen for salvation. They are blessed. But this does not mean that He will not do His work within the rest of mankind in the next age. In fact, scripture clearly says that He will do so. You just have chosen not to accept those verses which say so.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

1Cor 3:13 Every man's (all mankind) work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Rom 5:18 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. 19 For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the many have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many will be constituted righteous.

1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

You said:
You know I belong to an independent non denominational Reformed Church, nobody outside of our local congregation has any say or influence over us. So it wouldn't make sense to suggest that we are somehow influenced by any false doctrines. Our highest authority is the Bible and we have no other authorities to answer to or be influenced by.

You are not getting your understanding from Christ and scripture. Your understanding is coming from the leavened bread that Satan has given you to consume. The leaven in that bread is HIDDEN so that you do not know it is in there. That is the nature of being deceived - a deceived person cannot know that they are deceived while it is occurring. They can only know it AFTER they come out of the deception.

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

You accept Satan's leavened bread because the false truth that it teaches is pleasing to your carnal mind. The Old Wine (man's works/Satan's crooked way) simply tastes better to the carnal mind.

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Christ even warned us about the power of Satan's deceptions:

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The only reason the "very Elect" (the Apostles) were spared from Satan's deceptions was because they were converted prior to the spirit of anti-Christ coming into the church. Once a person is converted, they will no longer fall prey to Satan because their spiritual blindness has been healed. After a person is converted, their salvation is secured. This is also when a believer comes out from being under the Law (taught by the story of the woman taken in adultery). However, for unconverted believers (Early Rain only), they are easy prey for Satan. No new believer is spared from experiencing the apostasy. That is why scripture says this below about the time when Christ gives the Latter Rain of the Spirit to one of His Elect (Wheat):

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN (Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great, which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

After a fallen way Elect believer receives the Latter Rain of the Spirit, their spiritual blindness will be healed. It is only then that they can see that they have been under Satan's deceptions all along. This is when they will "see" the Abomination of Desolation (Mat 24:15-16) and when they will "perceive and see" that their wickedness is great.

As I said, all new believers will fall prey to Satan. God's Word says so. That is why salvation only comes to a person after they have received BOTH the Early and Latter Rains.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

Psa 68:9 Thou, O God, didst send a plentiful RAIN (Latter Rain), whereby thou didst confirm thine inheritance (salvation during the ages), when it was weary (in a fallen away state).

Joe

 

[Christian Soldier]

I'm assuming by this statement you are excluding our Creators Who are above, above all, in heaven.

I practice putting my mind up there in heaven, by faith, where our Creators communicate with me and I with Them. I don't need a go between God and I, no matter who it is. Be it Moses, Paul, Luther, Calvin, Billy Graham, Joel Osteen, John Macarthur or any of the contributors of the bible as they are all of this world below.

I am more than content to go straight to their Source, our Creators in heaven.

The only problem with that is, you can't go straight to the source in heaven because you're stuck down below on earth. So what you're claiming is false, since there's no way you can ascend to heaven to visit God.
I would be interested to know, who deceived you into believing that such a thing is even possible, God told us it's impossible but you reject what God said and follow your guru.

 

[Phoneman777]

While it is understandable to be concerned about the influence of various groups and ideologies, we must be cautious not to fall into the trap of attributing all evil to human conspiracies.

Why is it a "trap"?

Does not the Bible warn us to beware of "confederacies" in Isaiah 8?

Endeavoring to expose those who confederate and conspire against the saints doesn't lead people into traps - rather, the people become equipped by that so they can avoid traps as does the map of a landmine field.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Dear Christian Soldier,
You said:
Dear Sir, I won't be able to respond to every point you made as there are just too many to deal with. But I saw a lot of red flags reading through the above two posts. The red flags represent unbiblical opinions. The most obvious one is your private unbiblical opinion regarding the "Early Rain and Later Rain of the Spirit". I have never heard of such a thing before, so I will dismiss it as a false opinion.

The Early and Latter Rain concept is a part of the farming analogy used in scripture to teach the pathway to salvation. It is not understood or taught by the apostate churches in the world. They are blind to it.

Consider the marriage analogy used in scripture. It likewise teaches the pathway to salvation but uses different symbols. The Early Rain of the Spirit occurs when a person becomes "espoused" to Christ. The Early Rain of the Spirit is what makes them into a "chaste virgin". But since the Early Rain leaves the new believer spiritually blind, carnally minded and unconverted, Satan quickly deceives them and causes them to "fall away". When this happens, the believer is spiritually fornicating with Satan and causes them to lose their virginity (no longer chaste). To restore Christ's prospective bride, Christ will return to the fallen way believers who are "chosen" and give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With the Latter Rain of the Spirit, Christ will appear and take his chaste virgin back with Him to heaven for the "Marriage of the Lamb" to occur.

You said:
Secondly, you claim that a believer can lose his salvation. This is another false private opinion, which cannot be supported by any scriptures.

I am always amazed when a person makes this false statement because there are MANY scriptures which teach this truth about losing one's salvation. It happens when a believer commits the one and only sin that leads to death which is to mix their own works with faith.

1John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Paul describes it below using the example of circumcision:

Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

And here:

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and age-enduring judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift (Early Rain of the Spirit), and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come 6 if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance: seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The truth is ALL new believers will fall away and lose their salvation. This is the apostasy that Paul said would happen shortly after his death. It happens to all new believers because they remain spiritually blind after they have entered the church. Satan then comes to them at "night" (time of a new believer's spiritual blindness) and plants his seed within them, too. With both the Holy Spirit and the spirit of anti-Christ within the new believer, they will try to serve TWO MASTERS. When this happens, their house will be divided and will fall (lose their salvation. This is taught in the Parable below. Do you have "eyes" that can see the truth of what the parable teaches?

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed (Early Rain of the Spirit) in his field (mankind/one person): 25 But while men slept, his enemy (Satan) came and sowed tares (spirit of anti-Christ) among the wheat (the child of God/Elect), and went his way. 26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest (time the believer receives the Latter Rain, 1Sam 12:17): and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn (this is the conversion event).

You said:
Thirdly, your claim about the "elect being saved under a different dispensation or covenant to those who are saved at a later time". This is heresy, because Christ refutes your opinion, because He described those whom He came to redeem as one people. After He redeemed them, He said "it is finished". Someone has deceived you by false Doctrine (I call it the doctrine of Demons). The work of redemption was finished for all of Gods elect, on the cross, there are no more for Him to save in the future.

When Christ said "it is finished", He was only referring to His physical work that He had to do under the Old Covenant. You are misunderstanding Him because salvation also requires Christ spiritual work that He is now doing under the New Covenant.

Just as Paul said about the Corinthians believers who had only received the Early Rain of the Spirit, you are are only seeing "Christ and Him crucified" (1Cor 2:2). In other words, you can only see the physical work of Christ because you are still spiritually blind. The spiritual work of Christ that He is now doing under the New Covenant is what converts a person from a child of the Devil into being a child of God.

I made a post to another member this morning concerning how Christ saves all mankind. I will copy it into a second post. I strongly encourage you to read it.

Joe

Jesus never preached the formular you preach for salvation. You have added endless requirements, which Christ warned would happen after His ascension to heaven. Jesus said "believe in me and you shall be saved", yet you insist on adding these endless false conditions to the simple gospel which Jesus preached. So I hope you can understand, that I need to obey God rather than follow your private opinion which I have never heard any theologian preach in 2000 years of Church history.

There is absolutely nothing in Gods Word to suggest that a saved person can lose his salvation. Every verse you cited to support your view didn't say anything about losing one's salvation. Every single one of them was referring to those who made a false profession of faith, so they were reprobate to start with. Just as everyone thought that Judas Iscariot was a genuinely saved but the truth is he was a Devil.

No new believer can ever fall away, only those false converts who never were saved appear to fall away. But they were never saved to begin with so your whole theology is back to front and very messed up.

Christ, never referred to His physical work on the cross when He aid it is finished, that can't be true as it would make Him a liar and I don't believe He ever lied. If you go back through the new testament and find all the references which speak about why He came into the world, they all speak about His mission to do the work of redemption and atonement. So when He said it is finished, He was stating that He paid the penalty in full to redeem those the Father sent Him to redeem (the elect)

There is no more work to be done, all of Gods elect, from the beginning of time to he end of time have already been saved. There is nobody else left to save.

 

[One 2 question]

The only problem with that is, you can't go straight to the source in heaven because you're stuck down below on earth. So what you're claiming is false, since there's no way you can ascend to heaven to visit God.
I would be interested to know, who deceived you into believing that such a thing is even possible, God told us it's impossible but you reject what God said and follow your guru.

What!! Don't you go boldly into the throneroom of our God and have a 2 way interaction with Them. Don't you set your mind on things above where God the Father is and His Son sits to His right. This is all done by faith my friend, being sure of what we do not see with our natural eyes. Have the eyes of your understanding, the eyes of the born again person not been opened to see God?

That is very sad, if you haven't, like the Pharisees, had your eyes and ears open to see and hear God.

I'd encourage you to seek Them, with the hope of finding Them so you can enjoy being in Their presence.

I have asked Father to grant this to you so that hopefully this will be your experience.

Oh that people will get out of the pages of the bible and get into the presence of the Creators spoken of in the bible.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Dear Christian Soldier,
Here is that post:

You said:
Actually, the majority of mankind will perish (Mat 7:13,14).

Here are the verses:

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The people who are cast into the Lake of Fire in the final age are headed for destruction because death is the penalty of sin. However, you are not taking into consideration what these verses below say.

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Psa 119:160 The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures forever.

The truth of God's Word is concealed from carnal mankind in many ways. One of the ways that an apostate believer does not take into account is that Christ teaches "here a little and there a little". You cannot take one verse of scripture and make assumptions about it. You must look to other scripture in order to "see" the whole truth of the matter.

When you read Mat 7:13-14, you are ignoring a great deal of scripture in order to support your false beliefs. You need to learn from scripture in the prescribed way that scripture teaches a believer to follow.

Below are verses you need to consider so that you don't make false assumptions on Mat 7:13-14 as you are doing.

All judgment has been given to Christ:

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

When the "lost" in final age are judged by the Law, Christ is the one who administers their judgment. When He does, He will not administer the Law in the same way as you and the Pharisees do.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Christ will not omit mercy and faith when He administers the Law to the "lost". Why do you keep insisting that He will? I have presented this verse above to you before but you ignore what it states.

When Christ administers the Law to the "lost", He will show them MERCY before they perish. Why? Because Christ is not willing that any should perish:

2Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

If Christ is not willing that any should perish, who is going to stop Him from having mercy upon the "lost"?

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

The Father has given Christ all the authority of administering judgment upon mankind. Since Christ says that He will not omit mercy in a person's judgment and that He is not willing that they should perish, what do you think is going to happen?

This is what will happen:


And what about your faith to believe the verses below:

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

After Christ has converted the last person in the Lake of Fire, this scripture below will be testified to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

If you believe that the scripture should be translated as "desires" instead of "will have", the scripture itself would not make any sense. Can't you see that? I'll explain it below.

If Christ only desires to saved mankind, that is an emotion. An emotion can be testified to be true in the present because it does not require anything to happen. But when the verse is translated as "will have", it does require something to happen in the future (due time). After it has happened, it can only then be "testified" to be true.

But even if the verse should be translated as "desires", you need to apply this verse to your understanding (a little here and a little there).

Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, that will he do.

Christ is mankind's God and even if He only desires to save all mankind, "that will he do".

You need to really ask yourself if you have any faith in God's written Word, because to me, I can't see that you do. You have your preconceived beliefs which have been taught to you by "ministers of Satan". Because of those false beliefs, you seem to be willing to twist or ignore certain scriptures so that those beliefs don't die.

You need the Latter Rain of the Spirit to open your eyes to the truth - and as scripture says, you should pray for it:

Luke 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Joe

The lake of fire is a literal place which God created to be an eternal punishment for the Devil and His Angels and also fr all of those who worshiped them.
Again, you have misunderstood what the scriptures are actually saying. Christ will not show any mercy to the Phrases or unbelievers at their judgement. They will be judged by the covenant of the law and there is no mercy for those under the law. Only Born Again Believers are judged under the covenant of grace, so they have full forgiveness and eternal lie in paradise.

You used the term "apostate believer" this is a contradiction in terms. It's like saying a half saved person, you are either a believer or your not so don't try to muddy the waters with these unbiblical terms. he truth is hidden from unbelievers, Jesus said "there is no truth in you". The truth is foolishness to those who are perishing, so they will always reject it no matter how much you plead with them.

The law is the curse which condemns unbelievers to eternity in hell, if Christ administers the law correctly then He has no choice other than to cast unbelievers into hell forever. God never said that unbelievers get a second chance, that is pure heresy right there. I would urge you to find a faithful Shepherd to teach you what the Bible says, it's obvious you have fallen victim to Demonic doctrine.

You say faith is what makes a pathway for Christ to save a person, this is Demonic doctrine because no man has ever had any faith. Faith must be received from God. He only gives faith as a gift to His elect. So it's not something that we ever had, it's one of the gifts that God gives to those he chose to save.

Justice has nothing to do with burning the Devil, the only way justice is satisfied is by Christs work on the cross. You preach a works gospel, Christ preached a grace gospel.

 

[One 2 question]

Justice has nothing to do with burning the Devil, the only way justice is satisfied is by Christs work on the cross. You preach a works gospel, Christ preached a grace gospel.

In your mind, is the grace of God going to extend to the devil and his angels?

 

[Christian Soldier]

Dear Christian Soldier,
You said:
What you preach is contrary to my statement, in that you believe lost sinners in hell will get a second chance to receive Jesus as Lord and Savior at some later time. If that were true, then God would be a liar.

Salvation is not a "chance". You only believe it is a "chance" because you believe that mankind must contribute their own works in order to be saved (even if is is only their repentance and/or confession of faith).

God's Word proclaims that salvation for mankind is a certainty and not a "chance". I have shown you many scriptures that say so. Have you ever considered that when you say that Christ will fail to save all mankind that you are making Christ out to be a liar and a sinner (missing the mark)?

Don't you know that Christ never fails at anything He sets out to accomplish, especially a task that is given to Him by His Father (1John 4:14)?

If you have read my post above to the other member, it explains how Christ saves the "lost" in the Lake of Fire.

You said:
I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that my Church teaches "Grace plus Works" gospel. I have consistently rejected that idea as being a false doctrine, or as like to call it (Doctrine of Demons).

Just your statement above about having a "chance" for salvation indicts that you believe in mixing works with faith. You believe that mankind must act upon Christ's "offer" of salvation in order to receive salvation. This is not taught by scripture. Scripture teaches that Christ will do the spiritual work within a person that will cause them to repent and to accept Him as Lord. The individual has no ability to do it on their own. When a person does repents and accepts Him as Lord, they only do it because Christ changed their heart and mind beforehand by freely giving them the Spirit.

If Christ didn't act first within a person, the person would never repent or accept Him as Lord.

Christ is the Savior and He does 100% of the work to save a person. He saves a person by coming to them without their asking or permission. He then freely gives them the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. With the full amount of the Spirit, the person's heart and mind are changed and they are "born again". The person has no say in the matter as to whether or not Christ will do this work within them - Christ simply does it because He desires to save them.

In this age, Christ has said that He is only going to save the people who have been chosen for salvation. They are blessed. But this does not mean that He will not do His work within the rest of mankind in the next age. In fact, scripture clearly says that He will do so. You just have chosen not to accept those verses which say so.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

1Cor 3:13 Every man's (all mankind) work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Rom 5:18 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. 19 For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the many have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many will be constituted righteous.

1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

You said:
You know I belong to an independent non denominational Reformed Church, nobody outside of our local congregation has any say or influence over us. So it wouldn't make sense to suggest that we are somehow influenced by any false doctrines. Our highest authority is the Bible and we have no other authorities to answer to or be influenced by.

You are not getting your understanding from Christ and scripture. Your understanding is coming from the leavened bread that Satan has given you to consume. The leaven in that bread is HIDDEN so that you do not know it is in there. That is the nature of being deceived - a deceived person cannot know that they are deceived while it is occurring. They can only know it AFTER they come out of the deception.

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

You accept Satan's leavened bread because the false truth that it teaches is pleasing to your carnal mind. The Old Wine (man's works/Satan's crooked way) simply tastes better to the carnal mind.

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Christ even warned us about the power of Satan's deceptions:

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The only reason the "very Elect" (the Apostles) were spared from Satan's deceptions was because they were converted prior to the spirit of anti-Christ coming into the church. Once a person is converted, they cannot no longer fall prey to Satan because their spiritual blindness has been healed. After a person is converted, their salvation is secured. This is also when a believer comes out from being under the Law (taught by the story of the woman taken in adultery). However, for unconverted believers (Early Rain only), they are easy prey for Satan. No new believer is spared from experiencing the apostasy. That is why scripture says this below about the time when Christ gives the Latter Rain of the Spirit to one of His Elect (Wheat):

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN (Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great, which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

After a fallen way Elect believer receives the Latter Rain of the Spirit, their spiritual blindness will be healed. It is only then that they can see that they have been under Satan's deceptions all along. This is when they will "see" the Abomination of Desolation (Mat 24:15-16) and when they will "perceive and see" that their wickedness is great.

As I said, all new believers will fall prey to Satan. God's Word says so. That is why salvation only comes to a person after they have received BOTH the Early and Latter Rains.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

Psa 68:9 Thou, O God, didst send a plentiful RAIN (Latter Rain), whereby thou didst confirm thine inheritance (salvation during the ages), when it was weary (in a fallen away state).

Joe

We're are at opposite ends of the theological scale. Instead of refuting every point individually I can actually just refute everything you claim in your response. I don't like dismissing someone's entire theological system, as being fundamentally flawed, but I have no choice here.

I have never found such things in the bible, as early rain or later rain or losing ones salvation and getting it back in some strange future age or any other thing you believe. I have never even heard anyone else share your views, so it sounds like you're all on your own with the theological system you created out of your imagination.

I would have answered each of the points you made individually, but I can see that it would be useless because you have convinced yourself that your theology is the only correct one and all the others are false. This is what every cult does, "professing themselves to be wise they became fools". I would be more than happy to go over all of your false interpretations of scripture and correct you, but I can see that you're not willing to be corrected. A wise man gladly receives correction but a fool despises it.

 

[Christian Soldier]

What!! Don't you go boldly into the throneroom of our God and have a 2 way interaction with Them. Don't you set your mind on things above where God the Father is and His Son sits to His right. This is all done by faith my friend, being sure of what we do not see with our natural eyes. Have the eyes of your understanding, the eyes of the born again person not been opened to see God?

That is very sad, if you haven't, like the Pharisees, had your eyes and ears open to see and hear God.

I'd encourage you to seek Them, with the hope of finding Them so you can enjoy being in Their presence.

I have asked Father to grant this to you so that hopefully this will be your experience.

Oh that people will get out of the pages of the bible and get into the presence of the Creators spoken of in the bible.

None of that is true, it's merely your own private opinion.

John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

God's Word tells us "No one has seen God at anytime, but then you come long and accuse God of being a liar claim all this nonsense I would suggest you find a beginners bible study group and learn the basics before you embarrass yourself any further.

 

[Christian Soldier]

In your mind, is the grace of God going to extend to the devil and his angels?

The Devil and His Angels are not under the covenant of grace, so no mercy will be shown to them. They will be cast into the lake of fire to be tormented day and night for ever and ever without any hope of escaping.

 

[One 2 question]

The Devil and His Angels are not under the covenant of grace, so no mercy will be shown to them. They will be cast into the lake of fire to be tormented day and night for ever and ever without any hope of escaping.

Ok. I know there is a twist and turn in the never ending story of God that isn’t in the bible. Obviously the bible can only contain so much of God's story with its 66, 73 or even 81 books.

None of that is true, it's merely your own private opinion.

John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

God's Word tells us "No one has seen God at anytime, but then you come long and accuse God of being a liar claim all this nonsense I would suggest you find a beginners bible study group and learn the basics before you embarrass yourself any further.

I'll keep asking Father to draw you close to Him so that you can experience His presence like you may never have experiencing before.

It is a wonderful place for one's mind to rest, to find deep inner peace and sense the love of Jesus.

I've just spent some time there now talking to Them about you. I can only hope They draw you up close to Them.

The thing that kept us from Them is gone. It was removed by the blood of Father's Lamb. I encouage you to go boldly into Their presence my friend.

I'm a little excited to see what happens for you.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Jesus never preached the formular you preach for salvation. You have added endless requirements, which Christ warned would happen after His ascension to heaven. Jesus said "believe in me and you shall be saved", yet you insist on adding these endless false conditions to the simple gospel which Jesus preached. So I hope you can understand, that I need to obey God rather than follow your private opinion which I have never heard any theologian preach in 2000 years of Church history.

There is absolutely nothing in Gods Word to suggest that a saved person can lose his salvation. Every verse you cited to support your view didn't say anything about losing one's salvation. Every single one of them was referring to those who made a false profession of faith, so they were reprobate to start with. Just as everyone thought that Judas Iscariot was a genuinely saved but the truth is he was a Devil.

No new believer can ever fall away, only those false converts who never were saved appear to fall away. But they were never saved to begin with so your whole theology is back to front and very messed up.

Christ, never referred to His physical work on the cross when He aid it is finished, that can't be true as it would make Him a liar and I don't believe He ever lied. If you go back through the new testament and find all the references which speak about why He came into the world, they all speak about His mission to do the work of redemption and atonement. So when He said it is finished, He was stating that He paid the penalty in full to redeem those the Father sent Him to redeem (the elect)

There is no more work to be done, all of Gods elect, from the beginning of time to he end of time have already been saved. There is nobody else left to save.

Dear Christian Soldier,

You said:
You have added endless requirements, which Christ warned would happen after His ascension to heaven.

There are no requirements that mankind must perform to be saved. Salvation is a free gift. However, there are works that Christ needs to perform for our salvation. Those works are spiritual works and they will cause a person to be converted from a child of the devil into a child of God.

Also, you are right not to believe me but you should believe the scriptures I have posted. If you can't accept those scriptures, you need to pray for understanding.

You said:
There is absolutely nothing in Gods Word to suggest that a saved person can lose his salvation. Every verse you cited to support your view didn't say anything about losing one's salvation. Every single one of them was referring to those who made a false profession of faith, so they were reprobate to start with. Just as everyone thought that Judas Iscariot was a genuinely saved but the truth is he was a Devil.

The verses I posted are not hard to understand. However, you are adding meaning to them that is not there. You MUST look to other scripture to fill in the missing pieces of truth. Don't make assumptions about those missing pieces so as to force the verse into your current belief system. Let scripture teach you "here a little and there a little".

Those verses don't say anything about a person's confession of faith being false. You are adding that to the verses.

Also, none of the Apostles were saved prior to them receiving the Latter Rain of the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost. Judas only became a "devil" when the spirit of anti-Christ (Satan's spirit) entered him:

Luke 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Judas is a "type" for what happens to the churches that the Apostles started. Judas didn't ask for Satan to enter into him and Judas didn't even know it when it happen. However, after it did, Judas' heart was changed to betray Christ.

To be saved, a believer must have BOTH the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. The Apostles only had been given the Early Rain of the Spirit when they walked with Christ. They had "faith" (repented of their works) and it was that faith that made Christ's pathway "straight" for Him to "come again" to the Apostles on the Day of Pentecost.

The Early Rain of the Spirit will only give a believer their faith (which includes a repentance from works) and certain spiritual gifts. But it will not heal their spiritual blindness or convert them (Read Mark 8:15-25, Luke 22:32). The Apostles remained unconverted and spiritually blind up until they received the Latter Rain of Spirit. It was only then that the "Spirit of Truth" opened their eyes to the spiritual teachings of Christ.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The apostate churches are full of believers who only have the Early Rain of the Spirit. They are spiritually blind and as a result, they are deceived by Satan via the spirit of anti-Christ. And like Judas, they have become devils. After an Elect believer in the apostate church is given the Spirit of Truth, they will leave as quickly as they can.

You said:
Christ, never referred to His physical work on the cross when He aid it is finished, that can't be true as it would make Him a liar and I don't believe He ever lied.

Again, you are adding to scripture to where the scripture is silent.

Christ made His statement of "it is finished" just before He died on the cross. This meant that His physical work that He needed to perform under the Old Covenant was finished. Upon His resurrection, the New Covenant began. That work of Christ is His spiritual work of converting each and every person who has ever lived.

Below is the only single verse of scripture that I have found that summarizes the work that Christ must perform to save mankind:

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life (accomplished under the Old Covenant/"it is finished"), and that they might have it more abundantly (being accomplished under the New Covenant).

Christ's physical work under the Old Covenant which led Him to the cross is what earned Christ the keys to death and hell. This work gave Christ the authority to resurrect all mankind from the grave. In this way, Christ gives all mankind life. However, the sinful life that we have now is not salvation. We must be "born again" spiritually by the Holy Spirit which requires the marred spirit of mankind to be destroyed by judgment. Only after Christ does His spiritual work within a person will they then have life "more abundantly".

You said:
There is no more work to be done, all of Gods elect, from the beginning of time to he end of time have already been saved. There is nobody else left to save.

The Elect's salvation is certain to happen because Christ will cause it to happen from His work under the New Covenant. You are only seeing "Christ and Him crucified" as Paul said to the Corinthians. You are not seeing Christ's spiritual work of conversion that He is presently doing within His Elect. This is what it means to be spiritually blind.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

The lake of fire is a literal place which God created to be an eternal punishment for the Devil and His Angels and also fr all of those who worshiped them.
Again, you have misunderstood what the scriptures are actually saying. Christ will not show any mercy to the Phrases or unbelievers at their judgement. They will be judged by the covenant of the law and there is no mercy for those under the law. Only Born Again Believers are judged under the covenant of grace, so they have full forgiveness and eternal lie in paradise.

You used the term "apostate believer" this is a contradiction in terms. It's like saying a half saved person, you are either a believer or your not so don't try to muddy the waters with these unbiblical terms. he truth is hidden from unbelievers, Jesus said "there is no truth in you". The truth is foolishness to those who are perishing, so they will always reject it no matter how much you plead with them.

The law is the curse which condemns unbelievers to eternity in hell, if Christ administers the law correctly then He has no choice other than to cast unbelievers into hell forever. God never said that unbelievers get a second chance, that is pure heresy right there. I would urge you to find a faithful Shepherd to teach you what the Bible says, it's obvious you have fallen victim to Demonic doctrine.

You say faith is what makes a pathway for Christ to save a person, this is Demonic doctrine because no man has ever had any faith. Faith must be received from God. He only gives faith as a gift to His elect. So it's not something that we ever had, it's one of the gifts that God gives to those he chose to save.

Justice has nothing to do with burning the Devil, the only way justice is satisfied is by Christs work on the cross. You preach a works gospel, Christ preached a grace gospel.

Dear Christian Soldier,
Your understanding is carnal and is blasphemous to the name of Christ. You are making Christ out to be a failure and far worse than the most evil people of mankind. At least mankind has no ability to harm a person beyond them dying. But you believe Christ will harm a person in literal fire for all eternity. Nothing could be worse. The gospel you are following is not "good news" for the world - it is a nightmare that only Satan would teach. By promoting Satan's false gospel, you have become a "minister of Satan".

Here is the penalty of sin:

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Because death is the penalty of sin, Christ said this:

2Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish (penalty of sin), but that all should come to repentance.

"Fire/Lake of Fire is a spiritual symbol for Christ's judgment. During that judgment, Christ will administer justice, mercy and faith to the lost person (Mat 23:23). This is how Christ loves His enemies and does good to them. Justice is satisfied by the destruction of the child of the devil (who the person used to be prior to their new birth). You are not seeing the true Christ.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

We're are at opposite ends of the theological scale. Instead of refuting every point individually I can actually just refute everything you claim in your response. I don't like dismissing someone's entire theological system, as being fundamentally flawed, but I have no choice here.

I have never found such things in the bible, as early rain or later rain or losing ones salvation and getting it back in some strange future age or any other thing you believe. I have never even heard anyone else share your views, so it sounds like you're all on your own with the theological system you created out of your imagination.

I would have answered each of the points you made individually, but I can see that it would be useless because you have convinced yourself that your theology is the only correct one and all the others are false. This is what every cult does, "professing themselves to be wise they became fools". I would be more than happy to go over all of your false interpretations of scripture and correct you, but I can see that you're not willing to be corrected. A wise man gladly receives correction but a fool despises it.

Dear Christian Soldier,
You are right, we are at "opposite ends". You are following Satan who is masquerading as Christ to you. I am following the true Christ. Someday after Christ has given you the "knowledge of the truth", you will see the true Christ, too.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

There is no point in continuing our discussion at this time.

Joe