Does John 1:1 say Jesus is God

[Eternally Grateful]

Never. Absolutely not.

you are mistaken. see below

Singular - God.

Plural - gods.

You didn’t post an English translation that rendered it plural, and for good reason - there aren’t any.

Because I understand, I haven’t said that.

yes you did

Singular - God.

Plural - gods.

You didn’t post an English translation that rendered it plural, and for good reason - there aren’t any.

 

[Matthias]

Sorry my friend. I have been a trinitarian for over 40 years. and I know many others. We all know elohim is plural..

You don’t appear to know that elohim is singular or plural in meaning, depending on context.

yet here you are here again not responding to it. why?

I see no need to when I’ve already responded to it on the forum.

 

[Matthias]

you are mistaken. see below

yes you did

I posted examples of a singular rendering and a plural rendering in English.

Never have I said that the plural rendering is applicable or appropriate when the subject is the deity of the Bible.

Gods (plural) = more than one God (or god) = polytheism.

I’m beginning to question your integrity.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You don’t appear to know that elohim is singular or plural in meaning, depending on context.

my friend, I showed you context. LET US.......

I see no need to when I’ve already responded to it on the forum.

so I am supposed to look over 7 pages or more of stuff to try to find your answer?

I will take that as non responsive..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I posted examples of a singular rendering and a plural rendering in English.

Never have I said that the plural rendering is applicable or appropriate when the subject is the deity of the Bible.

Gods (plural) = more than one God (or god) = polytheism.

I’m beginning to question your integrity.

shaking my head.

My friend. We are going in circles. You keep saying stuff then denying it. and you will not even answer direct questions. Yet you question me?

I think you are out of answers so now you are trying to discredit me to take focus off yourself.

Good luck with that

 

[Matthias]

my friend, I showed you context. LET US.......

“Us” is plural, “God” isn’t.

 

[Matthias]

shaking my head.

My friend. We are going in circles. You keep saying stuff then denying it.

We are going in circles. You keep saying that I’m saying things that I haven’t said. That’s either a reading comprehension issue or an integrity issue. Repeated attempts on my part have convinced me that it’s not the former.

and you will not even answer direct questions.

Sometimes I do, sometimes I don’t. Some people, always; some people, seldom or never.

Yet you question me?

You’re under no obligation to answer me or anyone else.

I think you are out of answers so now you are trying to discredit me to take focus off yourself.

Good luck with that

You don’t even know what my answers are. You haven’t asked anything yet that I haven’t already answered on the forum - many times over.

The only person who can discredit you is you.

 

[theefaith]

God (singular), not Gods (plural).

The rendering of elohim offered by Johann is blasphemous in trinitarianism, binitarianism and unitarianism.

one God not three gods

 

[Matthias]

one God not three gods

That’s right - God, singular.

Trinitarianism is a form of monotheism.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

“Us” is plural, “God” isn’t.

see there you go again, did you not just say you never said this?

us is plural. Elohim (translated God) is plural

When God says LET US.. it also by context, make God used in the plural form..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We are going in circles. You keep saying that I’m saying things that I haven’t said. That’s either a reading comprehension issue or an integrity issue. Repeated attempts on my part have convinced me that it’s not the former.



Sometimes I do, sometimes I don’t. Some people, always; some people, seldom or never.



You’re under no obligation to answer me or anyone else.



You don’t even know what my answers are. You haven’t asked anything yet that I haven’t already answered on the forum - many times over.

The only person who can discredit you is you.

If you could answer a question, you would answer it

I can;t prove you answered it on any forum, let alone this one. The fact you will not do it speaks volumes, it is as if you do not want to discuss it.

I am not the one who is not answering questions. so I am not the one discrediting myself.

 

[Matthias]

see there you go again, did you not just say you never said this?
us is plural. Elohim (translated God) is plural

No. Elohim, translated God, is always singular.

When God says LET US.. it also by context, make God used in the plural form..

No it doesn’t.

 

[Matthias]

If you could answer a question, you would answer it

That’s false.

I can;t prove you answered it on any forum, let alone this one.

In regard to this forum, that’s false.

The fact you will not do it speaks volumes, it is as if you do not want to discuss it.

Now you’re catching on. I have very little interest in discussing anything with you at this point.

I am not the one who is not answering questions. so I am not the one discrediting myself.

 

[Wrangler]

That’s right - God, singular.

Trinitarianism is a form of monotheism.

Except for when it aint.

It's that mystical dualism again.

 

[RLT63]

see there you go again, did you not just say you never said this?

us is plural. Elohim (translated God) is plural

When God says LET US.. it also by context, make God used in the plural form..

Though Elohim is plural in form, it is understood in the singular sense. Thus, in Genesis the words, “In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth,” Elohim is monotheistic in connotation, though its grammatical structure seems polytheistic.
Elohim | Hebrew god

 

[marks]

Though Elohim is plural in form, it is understood in the singular sense. Thus, in Genesis the words, “In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth,” Elohim is monotheistic in connotation, though its grammatical structure seems polytheistic.

Written as plural, but understood as singular.

Why?

Why not keep it as written, plural?

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No. Elohim, translated God, is always singular.



No it doesn’t.

so God said, let us

If God is one person. he would say let me (singular) in my (singular)

sorry my friend. I am not sure why you can not see what is being said.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Though Elohim is plural in form, it is understood in the singular sense. Thus, in Genesis the words, “In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth,” Elohim is monotheistic in connotation, though its grammatical structure seems polytheistic.
Elohim | Hebrew god

True

God is one. But that God is in three persons. so in essence. it is plural. thats why the word was used.

the passage does not say, and YHWH created the heavens and the earth..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That’s false.



In regard to this forum, that’s false.



Now you’re catching on. I have very little interest in discussing anything with you at this point.

nice simple dodge.

you prove you have never had a willingness to discuss. if you did you would answer my very simple question. and not try to make me look for your answer.

Thats what proud people do..

 

[Matthias]

Written as plural, but understood as singular.

Why?

Why not keep it as written, plural?

Much love!

Some words are like that in Hebrew. Elohim is one of them, but not the only one.

Menahem Mansoor wrote a popular two-volume textbook titled Biblical Hebrew Step-By-Step. In Volume 1 he addresses this in Lesson Twenty-two, “Dual Number”. In Section 2 he gives six examples of “Nouns with Plural Form Only” - God, mercy, life, face, water and sky, heaven.

The Gods (elohim - plural form, plural meaning) of Israel is unheard of; it’s pagan polytheism. Trinitarian scholars don’t translate it that way. Non-trinitarian scholars don’t translate it that way either.

P.S.

The God (elohim - plural form, singular meaning) of Israel is an expression of monotheism. Trinitarian scholars translate it that way. Non-trinitarian scholars translate it that way too.

To insist that elohim must mean plural because the word is plural in form - which it always is - is to insist (unknowingly / ignorantly or knowingly / perniciously) on polytheism / idolatry.