Doctrine as a god - bow down before the one you serve...

[St. SteVen]

There is no salvation in doctrine. Only God can save.

--- Agree or disagree? ---

Doctrolatry (to coin a term)

Follow-up to several topics:

"My doctrinal opinion is true; you're doctrinal opinion is false." - Got it?​

The (potential) Treachery of Doctrine > My way, or the highway >​

What makes a doctrine false?​

Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey​

]

 

[Randy Kluth]

There is no salvation in doctrine. Only God can save.

--- Agree or disagree? ---

Doctrolatry (to coin a term)

Follow-up to several topics:

"My doctrinal opinion is true; you're doctrinal opinion is false." - Got it?​

The (potential) Treachery of Doctrine > My way, or the highway >​

What makes a doctrine false?​

Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey​

A bit short to be able to comment, because I could easily misunderstand. But as I understand it, I agree.

Religious form can become an idol. Statements of doctrinal belief can become a cover for corruption. Spirituality is something on the "inside of the cup," and not pure externality.

Observance of the Law of Moses, for example, would be to trust in the performance of sinful human beings, believers or not. And that would be utter futility or utter vanity. We cannot be justified as anything other than what we are--sinners!

We cannot rest our laurels on religious performance or perfunctory obligations. Instead, we must rely on the operations of faith, which require our conscious choice to follow the living word of God to our heart. That's where I agree that "spirituality is an individualized journey."

It is in our heart that we relate to God. Only then can we express that faith outwardly in word and in deed.

 

[St. SteVen]

It is in our heart that we relate to God. Only then can we express that faith outwardly in word and in deed.

That's it in a nutshell, thanks.

]

 

[Zao is life]

There is no salvation in doctrine. Only God can save.

--- Agree or disagree? ---

Doctrolatry (to coin a term)

Follow-up to several topics:

"My doctrinal opinion is true; you're doctrinal opinion is false." - Got it?​

The (potential) Treachery of Doctrine > My way, or the highway >​

What makes a doctrine false?​

Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey​

]

I agree.

So these questions below are not meant to be answered, but just to provoke thought about the answers.

I agree with your first statement. It is God who saves.

But what happens if someone rejects the God who saves or His method of salvation (saving?).

Would they reject the religious scripture that tells about God and how He saves?

What happens if YOUR doctrine is the false doctrine regarding Universalism? Will it be your way or the highway?

BIG QUESTION: Why is it so important to you or me or anyone else that everyone must understand scripture my way or your way or anyone else's way?

I'll tell you what makes any doctrine false: It's the doctrine that is not cemented in what Jesus and His apostles believed and said, because what Jesus believed and said is what God knows, and what His apostles believed and said is what Jesus first taught them, and then appointed then to establish in His churches.

So what happens if YOUR way of interpreting parts of what Jesus and His apostles believed and taught is the one that's not the same as what they meant? Would it be your way or the highway?

Why is it so important to you or me or anyone else that everyone must understand scripture your way or my way or anyone else's way?

Why is it so important to us that many don't understand it our way?

Evidence that humans are fallible and each one believes he isn't, is contained in every thread in these boards in this forum. So I don't stand out as an exception, neither do you. The only human who ever stood out, and stands out as an exception, is Jesus.

 

[Bob Estey]

There is no salvation in doctrine. Only God can save.

--- Agree or disagree? ---

Doctrolatry (to coin a term)

Follow-up to several topics:

"My doctrinal opinion is true; you're doctrinal opinion is false." - Got it?​

The (potential) Treachery of Doctrine > My way, or the highway >​

What makes a doctrine false?​

Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey​

]

I would agree 100% that "There is no salvation in doctrine. Only God can save."

 

[St. SteVen]

There is no salvation in doctrine. Only God can save.

--- Agree or disagree? ---

]

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

There is no salvation in doctrine. Only God can save.

--- Agree or disagree? ---

I disagree with a false definition "doctrine". It happens all the time, using the same word with an entirely different meaning. In general, doctrine is all Church teaching in matters of faith and morals. They are not opinions nor inventions. Rigid adherence of "doctrine" as a dirty word makes discussion of the topic impossible.

 

[St. SteVen]

There 1st Baptist churches.
There are also 2nd Baptist and 3rd Baptist churches. What's the difference? (doctrine)


Which of these churches has "Bible Doctrine":
- 1st Baptist churches?
- 2nd Baptist churches?
- 3rd Baptist churches?


There can only be one TRUE "Bible Doctrine", correct?

Which of these churches will you condemn as NOT having "Bible Doctrine"?

Related topics:

"My doctrinal opinion is true; you're doctrinal opinion is false." - Got it?​

The (potential) Treachery of Doctrine > My way, or the highway >​

What makes a doctrine false?​

Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey​

]

 

[St. SteVen]

Excerpt from the OP.

There is no salvation in doctrine. Only God can save.

--- Agree or disagree? ---

Doctrolatry (to coin a term)

[

 

[Windmill Charge]

Doctrine doesn't save any than not having doctrine.
What it does is explain, as far as some humans understand, Christianity.

Is it important? Yes it is.
Without it Christians are forever reinventing the wheel or going off at a tangent with false beliefs.

Not all preaching is worth listening to or helpful. Knowing the doctrinal stance of a preacher/church can help one decide whether to attend.

That said one should be open to considering challenges to one's own doctrinal position.

 

[St. SteVen]

Doctrine doesn't save any than not having doctrine.
What it does is explain, as far as some humans understand, Christianity.

Agree. Doctrines are man-made attempts to codify what we think the Bible means to say.

Is it important? Yes it is.
Without it Christians are forever reinventing the wheel or going off at a tangent with false beliefs.

Agree. If we understand the source and intent of doctrine.

Not all preaching is worth listening to or helpful. Knowing the doctrinal stance of a preacher/church can help one decide whether to attend.

Agree.

That said one should be open to considering challenges to one's own doctrinal position.

Agree. (obviously) - LOL

[

 

[Augustin56]

Correct "doctrine" is better said as "the teachings of Christ." The word "doctrine" means "teaching." So, are you saying the teachings of Christ don't save you?

 

[PGS11]

The bible is pretty clear you are saved by the sacrifice Jesus made and nothing else without it there is nothing.You cannot purchases it earn it or raise yourself up.There is no secret interpretation telling you how to do it yourself your reliance is 100% on Jesus that you will be raised up at death.The essence of faith is hope and the Gospel is a gospel of hope not damnation.You need to be clear that it is all Jesus and nothing to do with you or anything you have done.Then you have truly submitted to Christ.

Jesus came because of the fall of mankind to repair and restore what Satan had done all were universally condemned.Can't have Jesus without the fall.

 

[St. SteVen]

... are you saying the teachings of Christ don't save you?

No. You are putting those words in my mouth.

Are you saying the teachings of Christ save us? Doctrines = salvation

As I understand it, only God can save us. Not doctrine, not the church, not works, only God.

Doctrine, after all is man-made. Salvation is not manufactured by humankind.

/

 

[Johann]

There is no salvation in doctrine. Only God can save.

--- Agree or disagree? ---

]

Disagree.

 

[JohnDB]

Gnosticism is a doctrine
Universalism is a doctrine
Calvinism is a doctrine

Or are these theological systems?

Oxford says:
"a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group.
"the doctrine of predestination"

So....it appears to be synonymous with "theology" or what we believe about God to be true.

The question remains though "What does God teach or want from us?" Is what the Church teach actually true? Are their scripture references actually valid?

We have seen many come onto this forum to preach some sort of doctrinal belief as valid that scripture and common sense is in direct opposition to. Why do they do that?
Is it for OUR benefit or for their benefit in some fashion?

What else do they promote when not preaching this particular concept? (The benefits of sinning? Perhaps....perhaps not).

What credentials do they carry?
Are their arguments actually sound?
Violate other scriptures?

I'm just suggesting that we accomplish the very basics before we go off towards manufactured sins. The Two Commandments of Jesus before we go after a minutia of details.

 

[Johann]

I'm just suggesting that we accomplish the very basics before we go off towards manufactured sins. The Two Commandments of Jesus before we go after a minutia of details.

In the King James Version (KJV) of the Bible, the word "doctrine" is used fifteen times. Here's a breakdown of where it appears:

Matthew 15:9 – "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

Mark 7:7 – "Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

Luke 4:32 – "And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power."

Luke 20:21 – "And they asked him, saying, Master, we know that thou sayest and teachest rightly, neither acceptest thou the person of any, but teachest the way of God truly."

John 7:17 – "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself."

Acts 2:42 – "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

Acts 5:28 – "Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us."

Acts 13:12 – "Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord."

Acts 17:19 – "And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?"

Acts 17:21 – "For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing."

Romans 6:17 – "But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you."

1 Timothy 1:3 – "As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightiest charge some that they teach no other doctrine;"

1 Timothy 4:1 – "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"

1 Timothy 4:6 – "If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained."

2 Timothy 4:3 – "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;"

We need sound doctrine against heresies and the Oxford is not Scripture.
Doctrine as written in Scripture.
Thanks
J.

 

[JohnDB]

In the King James Version (KJV) of the Bible, the word "doctrine" is used fifteen times. Here's a breakdown of where it appears:

Matthew 15:9 – "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

Mark 7:7 – "Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

Luke 4:32 – "And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power."

Luke 20:21 – "And they asked him, saying, Master, we know that thou sayest and teachest rightly, neither acceptest thou the person of any, but teachest the way of God truly."

John 7:17 – "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself."

Acts 2:42 – "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

Acts 5:28 – "Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us."

Acts 13:12 – "Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord."

Acts 17:19 – "And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?"

Acts 17:21 – "For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing."

Romans 6:17 – "But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you."

1 Timothy 1:3 – "As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightiest charge some that they teach no other doctrine;"

1 Timothy 4:1 – "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"

1 Timothy 4:6 – "If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained."

2 Timothy 4:3 – "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;"

We need sound doctrine against heresies and the Oxford is not Scripture.
Doctrine as written in Scripture.
Thanks
J.

As I am not Anglican/COE I don't use that particular translation out of the 900+ various translations I could use.

I'm not likely to change denominations to Church of England anytime soon either. You might enjoy that particular denomination but their doctrines and mine don't go together very well. I'm not anything like ritualistic in my faith like they are. But more power to you since you are.

 

[Johann]

As I am not Anglican/COE I don't use that particular translation out of the 900+ various translations I could use.

I'm not likely to change denominations to Church of England anytime soon either. You might enjoy that particular denomination but their doctrines and mine don't go together very well. I'm not anything like ritualistic in my faith like they are. But more power to you since you are.

Making assumptions-not good.

DOCTRINE, n. [L., to teach.]
1. In a general sense, whatever is taught. Hence, a principle or position in any science; whatever is laid down as true by an instructor or master. The doctrines of the gospel are the principles or truths taught by Christ and his apostles. The doctrines of Plato are the principles which he taught. Hence a doctrine may be true or false; it may be a mere tenet or opinion.
2. The act of teaching.
He taught them many things by parables, and said to them in his doctrine. Mark 4.
3. Learning; knowledge.
Whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Isa 28.
4. The truths of the gospel in general.
That they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things. Titus 2.
5. Instruction and confirmation in the truths of the gospel. 2 Tim 3.
Webster.

Guess each one to his own.

 

[JohnDB]

Making assumptions-not good.

DOCTRINE, n. [L., to teach.]
1. In a general sense, whatever is taught. Hence, a principle or position in any science; whatever is laid down as true by an instructor or master. The doctrines of the gospel are the principles or truths taught by Christ and his apostles. The doctrines of Plato are the principles which he taught. Hence a doctrine may be true or false; it may be a mere tenet or opinion.
2. The act of teaching.
He taught them many things by parables, and said to them in his doctrine. Mark 4.
3. Learning; knowledge.
Whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Isa 28.
4. The truths of the gospel in general.
That they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things. Titus 2.
5. Instruction and confirmation in the truths of the gospel. 2 Tim 3.
Webster.

Guess each one to his own.

Why wouldn't I make that assumption?

It's literally the Church of Enland's translation made by that church for their church members specifically. The Baptists have their translation made by them for themselves and their publishing house Lifeway. The Catholics have their specific translation made for their membership.

I'm not knocking it....just saying.

I have several translations I use....I don't recommend my personal current favorite but because I'm too familiar with original languages I use an odd English translation. Its not exactly popular but it gets my mind to thinking. It's a translation out of South Africa created by Messianic Jews. They of course have their particular interests in translating scriptures but who does not? Especially since word-for-word translations cannot exist nor can precise thought-for-thought translations either. None of the four languages of scripture match English in grammar or vocabulary.