Difficulty Reconciling

[Wick Stick]

So, would you say that to abide in Him would be to take His Word in, and arrange yourself accordingly, beginning with accounting ourselves...

Yes

as He says (eg i have peace bc of God's mercy, not my goodness procen by my works, through Jesus), and proceeding to planning to live as He lived/commands us ("eat My flesh and drink My blood"... "as I was sent so I am sending you")?

For His teachings, I would have started with the Sermon on the Mount (let your light shine, keep the commandments, reconcile your differences, don't lust or divorce, don't swear oaths or take revenge, etc)

 

[GracePeace]

Yes

For His teachings, I would have started with the Sermon on the Mount (let your light shine, keep the commandments, reconcile your differences, don't lust or divorce, don't swear oaths or take revenge, etc)

See, I was trying to reconcile John with John, but this seems to make sense.

 

[GracePeace]

This is legalism and it's fruitless! Faith doesn't work that way...

I wasn't even aware I was doing that at the time--and I don't really understand how to parse between the different intentions of obeying God "to abide in Christ/retain eternal life" (as it seemingly teaches in John) versus obeying God "to pay for my sins"!

 

[face2face]

I wasn't even aware I was doing that at the time--and I don't really understand how to parse between the different intentions of obeying God to abide in Christ/retain eternal life (as it seemingly teaches in John) and working to pay for my sins!

Its the whole abiding in him through faith - prayer, act, praise, receive etc
A holy people who endeavor to remain unspotted by the world.
F2F

 

[GracePeace]

Its the whole abiding in him through faith - prayer, act, praise, receive etc
A holy people who endeavor to remain unspotted by the world.
F2F

Well, I really believed I was doing that, but, according to God, apparently, I was trying to pay for my sins, and I guess I don't know how to stop trying to pay for my sins, and trust Christ for that, instead of trusting in my good works (even the works that the NT outlines--even works done in me by God's grace, which I do in co-laborship with grace), and, yet, still do good works so as to "abide in Christ" (and retain the "eternal life" that is "in His Son"--ie, not be damned).

What is the difference between doing good works to be saved/to pay for my sins versus doing good works to abide in Christ (and if you don't abide in Christ you will go to hell, so, basically, it's the same thing of trying to be saved)?

 

[face2face]

You're in danger of doing a head job on yourself GP

Your issue has long been taking the lazy approach - I don't think I've ever seen you ask an intelligent question of the Word. For some remaining in ignorance is bliss.
F2F

 

[face2face]

@quietthinker

Ask, seek, knock - give it a go sometime, you might learn a thing or two about your salvation and how to work it out!

F2F

 

[quietthinker]

Your issue has long been taking the lazy approach - I don't think I've ever seen you ask an intelligent question of the Word. For some remaining in ignorance is bliss.
F2F

No intelligent question?...lazy approach?... I wonder who that reflects on f2f?

 

[quietthinker]

@quietthinker

Ask, seek, knock - give it a go sometime, you might learn a thing or two about your salvation and how to work it out!

F2F

Works man? faith man?....hmmmmm, confused man!

 

[face2face]

No intelligent question?...lazy approach?... I wonder who that reflects on f2f?

You, its been months of discussions and you are none the wiser.

 

[GracePeace]

Well, I really believed I was doing that, but, according to God, apparently, I was trying to pay for my sins, and I guess I don't know how to stop trying to pay for my sins, and trust Christ for that, instead of trusting in my good works (even the works that the NT outlines--even works done in me by God's grace, which I do in co-laborship with grace), and, yet, still do good works so as to "abide in Christ" (and retain the "eternal life" that is "in His Son"--ie, not be damned).

What is the difference between doing good works to be saved/to pay for my sins versus doing good works to abide in Christ (and if you don't abide in Christ you will go to hell, so, basically, it's the same thing of trying to be saved)?

Anyone?

 

[face2face]

Works man? faith man?....hmmmmm, confused man!

You don't understand Faith & Works? Maybe you can only handle one subject at a time...

 

[GracePeace]

Guys, @face2face and @quietthinker, please don't butt heads here.

 

[face2face]

Works man? faith man?....hmmmmm, confused man!

The irony in your reply is it's context of ask, seek and knock, to which you did none.

Hmmmmm, ignorance man!

 

[Brakelite]

So, you would say that persisting in eternal life relies on persisting in faith, which includes doing good by faith?

"Abide in Me and I in you... without Me ye can do nothing... but in Christ ye can do all things."
A favourite lie of the devil is "you cannot overcome sin.". That is repeated ad nauseum on these forums from people who do not have faith.

 

[GracePeace]

"Abide in Me and I in you... without Me ye can do nothing... but in Christ ye can do all things."
A favourite lie of the devil is "you cannot overcome sin.". That is repeated ad nauseum on these forums from people who do not have faith.

Sin will not be our master (enslave us) BECAUSE we are under Grace (Ro 6:14)--grace is the new way to serve Him, and results in fulfilling the Law (Ro 2:6-16, 26, 27, 3:31, 8:4).

 

[Hepzibah]

I have difficulty reconciling some verses in John.
How do you all reconcile the following verses?

1. On one hand, it seems like all we need to do to have eternal life is to believe in Jesus.

John 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 6:29Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent. ... 35Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. 36“But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe. ... 40For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
68Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.

2a. On the other hand, it seems like mere belief is not enough, but, at bare minimum, one must deny oneself/not indulge in sin to the point of confessing faith in Christ (by adding "confession" to "faith", the "faith" required cannot be defined as "faith alone", but "faith... plus...")....

John 12:42Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue; 43for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God.

2b. In the same chapter that seems to define "drinking" and "eating" as "believing" (to have eternal life), He defines the eating and drinking as "doing the works of the One Who sent you".

John 4:32But He told them, “I have food to eat that you know nothing about.” ... 34Jesus explained, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to finish His work.
6:56Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood remains in Me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on Me will live because of Me.

2c. There are other passages that seem to teach the same (have to keep God's commands--both speaking and acting as He commands--to have eternal life) : here, eternal life, the Spirit, God's love, is only for those who keep Jesus's commands (both "believe" and "love one another").
John 12:49For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me.
John 13:17 If you know these things, you are blessed if you do them.
John 14:21Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.
John 15:10If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love... 12This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. 14You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17This I command you, that you love one another.
1 John 3:23This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Rejoice! @GracePeace, for the Lord is lifting up the veil at the corner for you, for you to see the deeper spiritual meaning in the scripture. The Illumination has arrived!

You will not get an answer from those for whom the veil is still in place, and who say 'Peace! Peace! when you know that your peace has been shaken within you.

The key is in the understanding of the practical application of eating His flesh and drinking His blood, moment by moment. Seek and ye shall find, ask and it shall be given to you.

When we are truly eating His flesh and drinking His blood, the works will naturally occur. However we must not stop attempting them as they will bring us to the truth..

Keep on the path and more will be reveled to you.

 

[Lambano]

What is the difference between doing good works to be saved/to pay for my sins versus doing good works to abide in Christ (and if you don't abide in Christ you will go to hell, so, basically, it's the same thing of trying to be saved)?

How about we just we just do good works 'cuz it's the right thing to do?

(Silly me. What was I thinking?)

 

[GracePeace]

How about we just we just do good works 'cuz it's the right thing to do?

(Silly me. What was I thinking?)

IDK I think I already tried that.
Apparently, it's truly meaningful what someone is thinking and intending when they are working.
We are completely unworthy and nothing we do can ever make us worthy.

 

[GracePeace]

IDK I think I already tried that.
Apparently, it's truly meaningful what someone is thinking and intending when they are working.
We are completely unworthy and nothing we do can ever make us worthy.

The flip side of this is the good news that, because we could never be worthy, it is a gift--and will not be given, cannot be received, except on the terms that it is given and received as a gift (undeserved).