Difficulty Reconciling

[quietthinker]

Well, I really believed I was doing that, but, according to God, apparently, I was trying to pay for my sins, and I guess I don't know how to stop trying to pay for my sins, and trust Christ for that, instead of trusting in my good works (even the works that the NT outlines--even works done in me by God's grace, which I do in co-laborship with grace), and, yet, still do good works so as to "abide in Christ" (and retain the "eternal life" that is "in His Son"--ie, not be damned).

What is the difference between doing good works to be saved/to pay for my sins versus doing good works to abide in Christ (and if you don't abide in Christ you will go to hell, so, basically, it's the same thing of trying to be saved)?

It comes down to how 'good works' is defined.....yes, by the individual annnnnd the New Testament writers.
What definition would you align yourself with GP?

 

[quietthinker]

Anyone?

see post #121

 

[quietthinker]

Guys, @face2face and @quietthinker, please don't butt heads here.

No intention to butt heads.....however, ......

The irony in your reply is its context of ask, seek and knock, to which you did none.

Hmmmmm, ignorance man!

is it really necessary to run by employing a condescending blame game f2f?

 

[quietthinker]

"Abide in Me and I in you... without Me ye can do nothing... but in Christ ye can do all things."
A favourite lie of the devil is "you cannot overcome sin.". That is repeated ad nauseum on these forums from people who do not have faith.

How would you rate 'overcoming sin'....and is law (as it is generally understood....yet I use the term loosely) the only measure defining sin?......and which would be the other measure used if that were the case? (which incidentally, I think it is)

an aside....how are you going with 'overcoming sin' by either definition Bl?

 

[quietthinker]

IDK I think I already tried that.
Apparently, it's truly meaningful what someone is thinking and intending when they are working.
We are completely unworthy and nothing we do can ever make us worthy.

Is breathing 'good works'? I mean it keeps you alive. Try staying alive with out breathing. How long can you keep it up?

Does God do good works? seems creation got that designation. Does he always do good works?
Does God do bad works? hmmmm. Some are of the opinion that drowning and frying a percentage of his creatures for eternity is acceptable as good works. How would you rate that? .....How would sanity rate it?

Could loving another be defined as a good work? or is it as natural for a healthy person as breathing and doesn't require any particular attention?

Have we made good works 'extra curricular' to being healthy spiritually, physically, mentally and emotionally?

 

[Brakelite]

How would you rate 'overcoming sin'....and is law (as it is generally understood....yet I use the term loosely) the only measure defining sin?......and which would be the other measure used if that were the case? (which incidentally, I think it is)

an aside....how are you going with 'overcoming sin' by either definition Bl?

Heading in the right direction. Yet it never ceases to shame me as it continues to uncover the depths of depravity the human heart is capable of. The measure is indeed the law, and Jesus said the law is an expression of love. So perhaps we need to take careful note of the following, if we believe we are saved by faith...
“And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. ”
1 Corinthians 13:2 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

 

[amigo de christo]

Yeah, that's basically how I think about it, but, before, when I would do everything I believed the Holy Spirit would tell me to do, afterward, one time, when I went to pray, God told me I was trying to save myself. I said, "Yeah, what's wrong with that? I have to do works to save myself." He said I was trying to repay Him for my sins, and it's just Jesus. So, I wondered how I would serve Him without fearing hell, and He said "love". I guess I just don't completely don't understand that there is a message that solely instills love, and not fear--because I perceive, when I read, all manner of threats--but, I guess, like I said before, I am starting to get how someone could do things pleasing to Him out of love and peace.

We should behold both the Goodness and severity of GOD .
Understanding that every Word of GOD from warning to promise is good for our soul .
WHY do you even think God warns .
Because HE desires none to perish . Think about that .
Those warnings HELP us as do the promises .
Notice GOD did not just DESTROY , HE warns first because HE desired not their death but their repentance .
God knows what will Destroy us , what will harm us .
Even when HE told adam DO NOT eat of the tree in the midst . He was not warning adam
to be mean , HE was warning adam cause HE loved adam and knew it would bring death upon him TO DO SO .
Many need to understand that EVERY word of GOD REALLY is meant for our good .
And we need to remind others as well as be reminded ourselves . Every Word of the LORD
is good for us and works to the good of the hearer and doer of it .
TRUSTING IN GOD in what CHRIST has done for us and that HE keeps us safe .

 

[amigo de christo]

What is "interfaith"?

First allow me to answer and say IT is that which is of ANTI CHRIST .
here is what they teach
that the christain truth is no better than the muslim or any other religoins .
What a lie of anti christ . All other religions DENY JESUS IS THE CHRIST .
so how do they even have THE TRUTH . WHEN even JESUS HIMSELF is THE VERY TRUTH and yet they DENY HE IS CHRIST .
It is only the means to bring the religoins together as one under what they will believe is God and his love .
ONLY it aint GOD and it aint His golden rule either .
One cannot DENY JESUS is the CHRIST and yet have TRUTH and be LOVING GOD .
Ye have not the LOVE of GOD in you for HE whom GOD did send , YE BELIEVE NOT . thems JESUS words to the unbeliving jews .
Now he told them unbelieving jews , EVEN though they had adamently cried GOD is our father ,
that their father was satan .

 

[amigo de christo]

Heading in the right direction. Yet it never ceases to shame me as it continues to uncover the depths of depravity the human heart is capable of. The measure is indeed the law, and Jesus said the law is an expression of love. So perhaps we need to take careful note of the following, if we believe we are saved by faith...
“And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. ”
1 Corinthians 13:2 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

Trivia questoin time my friend.
HOW does one know if their love is of the world or is it really of GOD .
Notice many who have not charity are still capable of doing good works , feeding the poor for example .
Just as true charity would also feed the poor .
BUT there is a huge and simple difference between the two .
Ready ............................
CHARITY REJOICES IN TRUTH . IN THE HOLY TRUTH , not in inquity .
Last time i checked EVERY WORD of GOD and OF HIS CHRIST IS THE TRUTH .
so why do so many rejoice in certain sins
why do so many rejoice in THE LIE that DENIES the DIRE NEED to beleive JESUS IS THE CHRIST
as it opens up all paths of all religoins as valid . cause the last time i checked , FRIEND THAT IS A LIE .
JESUS HIMSELF is THE TRUTH . and if he DIDNT give the unbelieving jews a pass
HE wont be giving the false religoins one either . TIME we remind all and everyone , YE NEED TO BELIEVE JESUS IS THE CHRIST
and to be observing ALL , not some , not most , ALL things HE did teach .

 

[amigo de christo]

Heading in the right direction. Yet it never ceases to shame me as it continues to uncover the depths of depravity the human heart is capable of. The measure is indeed the law, and Jesus said the law is an expression of love. So perhaps we need to take careful note of the following, if we believe we are saved by faith...
“And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. ”
1 Corinthians 13:2 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

And WHO did the prophets and law POINT too . WHO .
And JESUS is not the ministir of sin .
Christ did not come to establish this new covenant , I shall allow them to remain in SIN and trangression and to feel saved .
HE came to establish rather THIS NEW COVENANT
And in those days i will write my laws UPON their hearts and in their minds and i will BE THIER GOD and They my people .
You see the LOVE of GOD shed by the HOLY GHOST upon the heart of the true believer whose faith BE IN JESUS THE CHRIST ,
REJOICES IN TRUTH not in inquity , not in lies . IT would fullfill the righteousness of the law
NOT BE A BIG Transgressor .
Believe you me when i say I DONT look to the law for justification .
HOWEVER it can be used for correction . just like paul and others did .
Look at all the times paul wrote he who is a fornicator , a liar , a theif , an adulterer etc WILL not inherit the KINGDOM of GOD
SO DONT be decieved church . GOD wont be mocked CHURCH what ye sow to is what ye reap .
Many often use JESUS as a means to have a liberty to SERVE THE FLESH . BIG MISTAKE friends .
OH we do have liberty , ONLY USE it not as a means TO SERVE the FLESH .

 

[amigo de christo]

Yeah, that's basically how I think about it, but, before, when I would do everything I believed the Holy Spirit would tell me to do, afterward, one time, when I went to pray, God told me I was trying to save myself. I said, "Yeah, what's wrong with that? I have to do works to save myself." He said I was trying to repay Him for my sins, and it's just Jesus. So, I wondered how I would serve Him without fearing hell, and He said "love". I guess I just don't completely don't understand that there is a message that solely instills love, and not fear--because I perceive, when I read, all manner of threats--but, I guess, like I said before, I am starting to get how someone could do things pleasing to Him out of love and peace.

Save yourselves from this untoward generation .
What do you think peter meant . TIME TO BELEIVE JESUS IS THE CHRIST .
in a sense the word save yourself is meant as SIMPLY beleiving IN and BELIEVING JESUS THE CHRIST .
Now this too is the working of GOD within the true believer . Its spirit filled reminders
to simply heed GOD and not the flesh . WE are saved soley by the grace of GOD , kept through FAITH .
Faith . Not in us , BUT IN CHRIST JESUS . Be encouraged friend . I hope this did not confuse you .
Simply keep learning the bible it will come together more and more my friend .
Remember Every Word of GOD is meat for our souls . IF JESUS said it GOD said it .
Just love and embrace every word of the LORD . And the words the apostels left us BY the SPIRIT .
Every warning is only meant for the good of the people as GOD desires none to perish .
So let us never omit the warnings . Behold both the goodnesss and severity of GOD .
For many have omitted the severity of GOD and thus its only a false goodness they now preach .
a goodness that has omitted the severity upon those who BELIEVED NOT JESUS was the CHRIST
and has rather made the road to GOD very very broad . THAT IS NOT THE GOODNESS or LOVE of GOD
for that LIE ends them all in perdition . GOD desires not their death . BUT THIS LIAR
who planted the lie and made the road to GOD as sin accepting and very broad , NOW HE DO DESIRE THE DEATH OF ALL .
satan is his name and decieving souls be his game .

 

[Marvelloustime]

We should behold both the Goodness and severity of GOD .
Understanding that every Word of GOD from warning to promise is good for our soul .
WHY do you even think God warns .
Because HE desires none to perish . Think about that .
Those warnings HELP us as do the promises .
Notice GOD did not just DESTROY , HE warns first because HE desired not their death but their repentance .
God knows what will Destroy us , what will harm us .
Even when HE told adam DO NOT eat of the tree in the midst . He was not warning adam
to be mean , HE was warning adam cause HE loved adam and knew it would bring death upon him TO DO SO .
Many need to understand that EVERY word of GOD REALLY is meant for our good .
And we need to remind others as well as be reminded ourselves . Every Word of the LORD
is good for us and works to the good of the hearer and doer of it .
TRUSTING IN GOD in what CHRIST has done for us and that HE keeps us safe .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

First allow me to answer and say IT is that which is of ANTI CHRIST .
here is what they teach
that the christain truth is no better than the muslim or any other religoins .
What a lie of anti christ . All other religions DENY JESUS IS THE CHRIST .
so how do they even have THE TRUTH . WHEN even JESUS HIMSELF is THE VERY TRUTH and yet they DENY HE IS CHRIST .
It is only the means to bring the religoins together as one under what they will believe is God and his love .
ONLY it aint GOD and it aint His golden rule either .
One cannot DENY JESUS is the CHRIST and yet have TRUTH and be LOVING GOD .
Ye have not the LOVE of GOD in you for HE whom GOD did send , YE BELIEVE NOT . thems JESUS words to the unbeliving jews .
Now he told them unbelieving jews , EVEN though they had adamently cried GOD is our father ,
that their father was satan .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

Trivia questoin time my friend.
HOW does one know if their love is of the world or is it really of GOD .
Notice many who have not charity are still capable of doing good works , feeding the poor for example .
Just as true charity would also feed the poor .
BUT there is a huge and simple difference between the two .
Ready ............................
CHARITY REJOICES IN TRUTH . IN THE HOLY TRUTH , not in inquity .
Last time i checked EVERY WORD of GOD and OF HIS CHRIST IS THE TRUTH .
so why do so many rejoice in certain sins
why do so many rejoice in THE LIE that DENIES the DIRE NEED to beleive JESUS IS THE CHRIST
as it opens up all paths of all religoins as valid . cause the last time i checked , FRIEND THAT IS A LIE .
JESUS HIMSELF is THE TRUTH . and if he DIDNT give the unbelieving jews a pass
HE wont be giving the false religoins one either . TIME we remind all and everyone , YE NEED TO BELIEVE JESUS IS THE CHRIST
and to be observing ALL , not some , not most , ALL things HE did teach .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

And WHO did the prophets and law POINT too . WHO .
And JESUS is not the ministir of sin .
Christ did not come to establish this new covenant , I shall allow them to remain in SIN and trangression and to feel saved .
HE came to establish rather THIS NEW COVENANT
And in those days i will write my laws UPON their hearts and in their minds and i will BE THIER GOD and They my people .
You see the LOVE of GOD shed by the HOLY GHOST upon the heart of the true believer whose faith BE IN JESUS THE CHRIST ,
REJOICES IN TRUTH not in inquity , not in lies . IT would fullfill the righteousness of the law
NOT BE A BIG Transgressor .
Believe you me when i say I DONT look to the law for justification .
HOWEVER it can be used for correction . just like paul and others did .
Look at all the times paul wrote he who is a fornicator , a liar , a theif , an adulterer etc WILL not inherit the KINGDOM of GOD
SO DONT be decieved church . GOD wont be mocked CHURCH what ye sow to is what ye reap .
Many often use JESUS as a means to have a liberty to SERVE THE FLESH . BIG MISTAKE friends .
OH we do have liberty , ONLY USE it not as a means TO SERVE the FLESH .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

Save yourselves from this untoward generation .
What do you think peter meant . TIME TO BELEIVE JESUS IS THE CHRIST .
in a sense the word save yourself is meant as SIMPLY beleiving IN and BELIEVING JESUS THE CHRIST .
Now this too is the working of GOD within the true believer . Its spirit filled reminders
to simply heed GOD and not the flesh . WE are saved soley by the grace of GOD , kept through FAITH .
Faith . Not in us , BUT IN CHRIST JESUS . Be encouraged friend . I hope this did not confuse you .
Simply keep learning the bible it will come together more and more my friend .
Remember Every Word of GOD is meat for our souls . IF JESUS said it GOD said it .
Just love and embrace every word of the LORD . And the words the apostels left us BY the SPIRIT .
Every warning is only meant for the good of the people as GOD desires none to perish .
So let us never omit the warnings . Behold both the goodnesss and severity of GOD .
For many have omitted the severity of GOD and thus its only a false goodness they now preach .
a goodness that has omitted the severity upon those who BELIEVED NOT JESUS was the CHRIST
and has rather made the road to GOD very very broad . THAT IS NOT THE GOODNESS or LOVE of GOD
for that LIE ends them all in perdition . GOD desires not their death . BUT THIS LIAR
who planted the lie and made the road to GOD as sin accepting and very broad , NOW HE DO DESIRE THE DEATH OF ALL .
satan is his name and decieving souls be his game .

@amigo de christo

 

[GracePeace]

I don't know how to explain it Scripturally yet, but I had an experience yesterday, and I'm certain we are utterly unworthy of God's goodness, so it has to be a gift. It's too good. We can't deserve to know God. He's too good. We are nothing.

"When I atone for all your sins, you will be ashamed and never speak again."
"The nations are as nothing before Him".

We are absolutely nothing. Yes, Scripture talks about good works, so Idk how that fits in, but I may know one day.

It may be that the only way to accurately assert our nothingness is to only express God in our works, so that we won't be liars--asserting ourselves, claiming "I am", instead of asserting "God Is".

So, good works might declare all of this truth : "I'm nothing--I'll never deserve the gift of knowing God. Thank God for His gift of knowing Him."

Please keep praying for me.

 

[amigo de christo]

I don't know how to explain it Scripturally yet, but I had an experience yesterday, and I'm certain we are utterly unworthy of God's goodness, so it has to be a gift. It's too good. We can't deserve to know God. He's too good. We are nothing.

"When I atone for all your sins, you will be ashamed and never speak again."
"The nations are as nothing before Him".

We are absolutely nothing. Yes, Scripture talks about good works, so Idk how that fits in, but I may know one day.

It may be that the only way to accurately assert our nothingness is to only express God in our works, so that we won't be liars--asserting ourselves, claiming "I am", instead of asserting "God Is".

So, good works might declare all of this truth : "I'm nothing--I'll never deserve the gift of knowing God. Thank God for His gift of knowing Him."

Please keep praying for me.

NONE of us are worthy . but never allow yourself to beleive that just because not one soul is worthy
THIS MEANS all will be saved . THERE BE ONLY ONE WAY TO BE SAVED
and if us UNWORTHY souls wont beleive ON HIM , JESUS THE CHRIST , WHO I KNOW GOD sent
and predetermined to SEND , then all who fail to believe on HIM , WELL they will surely roast in damnation .
GOD has thrown us UNWORTHY people a life line . HIS NAME IS JESUS . but if one dont grab ahold
THEY GONNA DROWN IN PERDITION . that is a fact .

 

[GracePeace]

NONE of us are worthy . but never allow yourself to beleive that just because not one soul is worthy
THIS MEANS all will be saved . THERE BE ONLY ONE WAY TO BE SAVED
and if us UNWORTHY souls wont beleive ON HIM , JESUS THE CHRIST , WHO I KNOW GOD sent
and predetermined to SEND , then all who fail to believe on HIM , WELL they will surely roast in damnation .
GOD has thrown us UNWORTHY people a life line . HIS NAME IS JESUS . but if one dont grab ahold
THEY GONNA DROWN IN PERDITION . that is a fact .

Yeah we're all unworthy but the difference between salvation and damnation is some admit they're unworthy and receive God's love as a gift, whereas the damned continue trying to prove the lie that they're good and they're worthy and so they cannot receive the gift that is so good it is unmeritable, so they can't and won't ever have it.

 

[Behold]

I don't know how to explain it Scripturally yet, but I had an experience yesterday, and I'm certain we are utterly unworthy of God's goodness, so it has to be a gift. It's too good. We can't deserve to know God. He's too good. We are nothing.

I dont know what happened to you, but i can explain something that might seem to fit.

A.) God our Father gives us "handfuls on purpose"...

Undeserved special favors. Special Graces that are unexpected good fortune, that came "Out of the Blue"/

He does this to help up realize that He is Good to us, because God is good all the time........and not because we earned it.

When we can see ourselves as little children who are being picked up by Jesus and hugged and blessed, ... because He loves to do this.. then we are starting to understand our Heavenly Father's relationship with us.

Its like THAT.