Buying and selling in the last days

[Naomi25]

You should know that that is TOTAL NONSENSE when Scripture makes it perfectly clear that it is a literal, physical mark on the right hand or on the forehead, and it leads to eternal damnation.

Christians do not have the right, the authority, or the liberty to play fast and loose with Scripture -- especially in such a serious matter. We already see all around us how people are being marked through various identification numbers. In this case, the ID will be implanted on the individual. It could well be an electronic chip (which is already being used in certain areas). And somewhere within that ID will the the number 666.

What I KNOW, is that I provided biblical precedence for it NOT being a physical mark (Deut 6:8). I also know that Rev 1:1-2 informs only the stubbonly oblivious that the book of Revelation is communicating it's very real truths to us in images and symbols. Thus, going on to read such a book in overly 'literal' style is, in point of fact, not taking it 'literally'...which would be taking it as it is supposed to be read; as John tells us to read it and as the genre clearly indicates.

But hey...let's suspend reality for a moment. IF you can find something in Revelation that directly condradicts the command to read it in images and symbols...IF you can find something that tells us that the genre of apocolyptic suddenly means somthing completely different than it does, AND if you can find some other biblical precedent in scripture where having a mark or seal on ones hand or forehead is an actual, physical mark....then by all means, let's have a conversation.

Until that time, I'm very much afraid you remain on par with those mistaken fellows walking around with a little book on their heads. Perhaps well meaning....but missing the mark (excuse the pun) by a long shot. And throwing Dispensational thought at me in condemnation, rather than biblical proof, is no kind of rebuke. Sorry.

 

[Bobby Jo]

The idea that the "mark of the beast" must be a literal, physical mark on the hand or forehead is just not consistent with scripture itself.
As we know, Revelation is a book that delves back into the OT for its images and references. Look in Deut 6:

You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates. -Deuteronomy 6:5–9
...

It seems to me that there are many instances where exceptions/exclusions/extrapolations are made. Take your "hand", "frontlets", "doorposts", and "gates". -- You selectively picked "hand" and "frontlets", but ignored the other two aspects which didn't suit your theology.

They do "extrapolation" when they cite the "day or the hour" and then presume: "week", "month", "season", "year", "decade", "score", "century", "daytona", & "millennia".

But regarding the "right hand" & "forehead", there is a SECURITY convention which involves the "right hand" for the PALM SCAN, and the "forehead" for the RETINAL SCAN. BOTH are required in the event that a person doesn't have a right hand either due to it's absence or injury, where that person would have to use the RETINAL SCANNER to verify his/her identity in order to charge their credit card.


Unfortunately it seems too often in fear driven circles, urban myths supersede rational thinking. :)

Bobby Jo

 

[Naomi25]

It seems to me that there are many instances where exceptions/exclusions/extrapolations are made. Take your "hand", "frontlets", "doorposts", and "gates". -- You selectively picked "hand" and "frontlets", but ignored the other two aspects which didn't suit your theology.

Forgive me, but as the "mark of the beast" is only speaking of a mark on the hand or 'frontlets', I didn't think I needed to go into the doors or gates.
Are you suggesting, however, that in Deut 6, that just as one might, in fact, be able to put a physical mark on a gate or door, that they should have, truly, taken the command to put the commands of God on their hands and foreheads? Because I think we can see from the rest of the OT itself, that that was NOT the correct interpretation of that verse. That the devout Jews choose to put little books on their forehead now can be seen as nothing more than an addition to the mistakes that their Pharisaical forefathers made.
No...Deut 6 and it's intent is clear, and being clear, it gives us, as I said, a precedent for Rev 14. That does not, in and of itself, make my interpretation correct, but I would say that it gives it a tad more legitamacy than pulling a computer chip out of scripture....

They do "extrapolation" when they cite the "day or the hour" and then presume: "week", "month", "season", "year", "decade", "score", "century", "daytona", & "millennia".

I fail to see your point here entirely...sorry.

But regarding the "right hand" & "forehead", there is a SECURITY convention which involves the "right hand" for the PALM SCAN, and the "forehead" for the RETINAL SCAN. BOTH are required in the event that a person doesn't have a right hand either due to it's absence or injury, where that person would have to use the RETINAL SCANNER to verify his/her identity in order to charge their credit card.


Unfortunately it seems too often in fear driven circles, urban myths supersede rational thinking. :)

Bobby Jo

Well now, if we're being strictly literal, which I know you folk like to be, the retina is NOT in the forehead. Just so you know.
You know what IS behind your forehead? Your brain! Which is where your thoughts are. Remember how Jesus said we are to 'love the Lord your God with all you heart, mind and soul?' Mind....brain...thoughts. Ergo.
And what happens when we love our God fully like that? Our lives show it. Deed. We work with our hands.
Now, I'm not sure how fear comes into it, but my bible tells me that when a person is saved, the Holy Spirit seals them (2 Cor 1:22; Eph 1:13; Eph 4:30). And in Rev 7:3 we see that the servants of God are sealed on their foreheads.
So...forgive me, but I think for my part, I'll put together my doctrine from all of the above bible verses, rather than seeing one verse speaking of a 'mark' on a body part and assuming what it must be. Because it is assuming. There is nothing there that gives you leave to think 'chip' or 'tattoo'.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... I would say that it gives it a tad more legitamacy than pulling a computer chip out of scripture....
... There is nothing there that gives you leave to think 'chip' or 'tattoo'.

Ummmmmmm, actually Scripture DOES suggest a possible computer chip/barcode implant; PLUS the word COMPUTER sums to 666 using the SAME methodology as summing the name of the a/c; a barcode has an embedded "666"; and the only way to track who is authorized to "buy or sell" is by COMPUTER.

But you apparently already have solutions for all these aspects. :)

Bobby Jo

 

[shilohsfoal]

Im guessing neither of you have been paying attention to the beast and what hes been,doing or what he says he plans to do.

 

[Jay Ross]

Hello

I wonder what the scholars were suggesting 100 years ago regarding what the mark would be. There were mechanical computers of some description back then but the weight of them, well, they would have been a good anchor because they did not know how to communicate with other computers, 100 years ago and it is being suggested that computers are needed to effect control with a mark of some description.

My Grandfather had a mark forcibly tattooed on his arm when he became a prisoner of war during WW1, It did contain a number so that he would be easily identified if he escaped and be identified as a POW within the general population of Germany at that time. They did not have computers then but they did put into place a process which quickly helped to identify a POW if he escaped, they simply checked peoples arms for the POW tattoo.

Now whether the mark is a literal mark on the person or a spiritual mark on their soul is a source for great debate between people.

If you sin, you have already taken the mark of Satan but because of the present lag time, it is fairly easy to remove that mark but at the end of the age of the ages, the lag time is so much shorter and the consequences more dire that the ability to remove the mark will be more difficult to achieve. Sadly repentance will not be considered to be an option during the last years of the age of the ages.

Shalom

 

[Bobby Jo]

So if Scripture is true, and those who are WISE can CALCULATE the number of his NAME, (that being the a/c), -- I see a LOT of supposition but absolutely NO SOLUTION.

Rev. 13:18 This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.​

Maybe there ARE NO WISE PEOPLE in this Forum, or maybe they're not very good at math. Personally I suspect BOTH! :)
Bobby Jo

 

[Naomi25]

Ummmmmmm, actually Scripture DOES suggest a possible computer chip/barcode implant; PLUS the word COMPUTER sums to 666 using the SAME methodology as summing the name of the a/c; a barcode has an embedded "666"; and the only way to track who is authorized to "buy or sell" is by COMPUTER.

But you apparently already have solutions for all these aspects. :)

Bobby Jo

Yes, and by 'numberology' we can make any person's name in the world spell out 666! Forgive my sacasm and doubt, but I find it is a huge stretch from 'computers work with numbers' to 'the bible tells me so'. That's like saying 'the demons in Revelation have long hair so these must be women in the helicopters'. Spurious conjecture.
What I'd like to see, rather than people declaring this 'mark' HAS to mean, by their own fantastic ruminations, is a logical, step by step reasoning of why the bible verses I provided speaking about being marked or sealed on the forehead by the Holy Spirit, or how we are to take God's word to heart and mind and 'live' it, are reasons NOT to think it's symbolic. Because it seems to me that I have clear biblical precedence for MY opinion, but no ones addressed it. I get accused of 'having everything sorted' because I'm smug and superior, and clearly liberal...but no one addresses the scripture. They're too busy figuring out barcodes and how they can squeeze them into a passage that says absolutely nothing about them.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Yes, and by 'numberology' we can make any person's name in the world spell out 666! ...

Great, -- demonstrate how "naomi25" sums to 666. And use the same methodology to make "Bobby Jo" to sum to 666.

Yeah, good luck.


To All,
Where do these people come from?!? Claims, assertions, innuendo, denial, -- BUT NO SOLUTION. Are you surprised? I'm not. -- These ARE christians (small "c").
Bobby Jo

 

[Naomi25]

Great, -- demonstrate how "naomi25" sums to 666. And use the same methodology to make "Bobby Jo" to sum to 666.

Yeah, good luck.


To All,
Where do these people come from?!? Claims, assertions, innuendo, denial, -- BUT NO SOLUTION. Are you surprised? I'm not. -- These ARE christians (small "c").
Bobby Jo

Shrug. I'm not the numberologist. But apparently according to numberology Emperor Nero, at the very least, was a fierce contender, his name adding up to 666. Keeping in mind that Hebraic numberology, gematria, is a little harder than the sort of numberology we'd have these day. In point of fact, this is the formula they use:

"A formula for finding a letter's corresponding number in Mispar Gadol is: {\displaystyle f(x)=\left(10^{\mathrm {floor} \left(\left(x-1\right)\div 9\right)}\right)\times \left(\left(\left(x-1\right)\ \mathrm {mod} \ 9\right)+1\right)}

where x is the position of the letter in the language letters index (Regular order of letters), and the floor and modulo functions are used."

So, unless you have the time or inclination to GET that, I suggest you back off mocking people who choose likewise.
And considering the sheer NUMBER of people in the world, the idea that only a single person will have their name equal '666' is laughable...statistcally wise.
But, you know...maths....I know...I'm stupid, foolish and am making claims that are beyond reasonable. It's it rather 'conveniant' that your argument comes from silence and "cannot" be proved. You mock me and others, but I bet if we asked you to 'prove' your number theory was correct, you'd say something like "It can't be proved correct until the Antichrist is here, and THEN we will know the truth!"
Yeah sure.
But, you know, mock away. I'm still feeling fairly safe and content with statistics backing me up. Oh, and let's not forget all the biblical evidence I'd already laid out paving the way for how NOT NECESSARY gematria and the foolishness of fussing with it is in the first place.

 

[Giuliano]

There's a claim by some that we're living in the last days. Those who make this claim also point out that during the last days, the antichrist will insist that those who wish to buy or sell must take his mark, but that hasn't happened. The reason they say it hasn't happened is because they're still buying and selling. Why they presume this to be the case should be obvious, but then hypocrisy and an inability to exercise even rudimentary critical thinking skills are pervasive today; also a sign of the times.

So what is the mark of the beast according to these same people? It's a literal mark, a tattoo, a chip, etc. It might as well be that obvious, but when people have lost their way, and can't see the truth when it's staring them in the face, it's pretty easy to slip something that obvious past them.

The bible talks of another mark, one that his chosen people can be identified by. How many of those professing to know so much about the mark of the beast know what that mark is? How many ever stopped to think their interest in the mark of the beast might be a clue to which mark they've already taken?

Who knows what mark God has given to his people which distinguishes them from the mark of the beast?

Luke 11:33 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light.
34 The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.
35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.
36 If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.

Those who single eye is in Light have the Seal of God. Those who have "the evil" eye like Goliath and Jezebel have the mark of the beast. Many seem to have neither fully yet. Can we see things in a way that resembles what God sees?

Revelation 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Why do you think David aimed at Goliath's forehead? Why didn't the dogs eat Jezebel's skull and hands (and feet as well)? They were worse than the beasts of the earth. That being said, still they died as beasts, having no Light in them; dust they were and to dust they returned.

What was the boxes Jews put on their foreheads meant to do? It was to remind them to put those words, the words written on parchment, on their heads, hearts and hands.

Deuteronomy 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
19 And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

There is significance too in where the blood of the passover lamb was placed: They correspond to the parts of a door where the head and hands are.

Exodus 12:23 For the Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the Lord will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

Those without those marks had death visit their houses when the angel passed over. Something similar happens in Revelation.

What about buying and selling? Have you ever wondered what kind of human abuses are involved in our world? It seems to me almost everything we buy could be the result of slave labor or human abuses. It seems to me maybe I'm contributing to such evil, especially if given to buying luxury items which I don't need and which are produced by inhumane business practices. Am I guilty of loving money and the things it can buy more than than my fellow man?

Revelation 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
12 the merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
13 and cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

Have I wanted to "live deliciously" like Our Lady of Babylon, indifferent to an economic system that makes my life easy while afflicting others?

7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

Can we serve both God and mammon? I don't know how to live completely pure of such an evil economic system; but I can be sure I'm not buying luxury goods manufactured in places where workers are abused and paid so little. Why worry about the future so much if we can't see it around us now. Perhaps it will get worse in the future; but it's also bad now.

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Yes, now. We can fret too much about the future and forget we're living today and expected to do the right things today. If we can't keep ourselves pure now, what would we do if it got worse? What are we doing about economic evil today?

Matthew 6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Quote Naomi25:

by 'numberology' we can make any person's name in the world spell out 666! ...
​

Quote Bobby Jo:

Great, -- demonstrate how "naomi25" sums to 666. And use the same methodology to make "Bobby Jo" to sum to 666.
​

Quote Naomi25:

Shrug. I'm not the numberologist ... ​

So you make a claim, and then run from it. You're like Joe Biden. You say whatever leaks out of your dark recesses and then blame it on the dog.

I guess that's christianity (small "c") in it's TRUE FORM,



To All,

Is there ANYONE who tells the TRUTH in this Forum, and then BACKS IT UP? Or are they all prevaricators/boasters/deceivers?!?

Whew,
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

To All,

What is the world's language? Hebrew? Greek? Latin? -- NO

The world's language is ENGLISH.

So if you take the English alphabet and assign increments of 6 to each of the letters, you get:

A=6
B=12
C=18
D=24
E = etc.​

And the ONLY way to control who can buy or sell, is by the use of a C O M P U T E R :

C=18
O=90
M=72
P= etc.
U
T
E
R ___
= 666​

It's not magic, it's just math. And THE SAME METHODOLOGY works for the a/c's name. -- DON'T CHANGE THE METHODOLOGY ...

Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

Rev. 13:18 This calls for wisdom: let him who has understanding reckon the number of the beast, for it is a human number, its number is six hundred and sixty-six.​

... well, it seems that there are none in this Forum who have any Wisdom or Understanding, -- even after being given the method of calculation. Yeah, that's a surprise. NOT!

So if we have a "mark" to use as an example, we could look at a UPC barcode. In doing so we should find three "registration marks" at the beginning/middle/end of the barcode, which consist of two thin lines. (The product information is between the registration marks.) And with binary being used by computers to "read" the UPC, we should be aware that the number "6" in binary is a unique number because it is not a single bit; it not an "all-on"; and it's not "alternating" -- of which all are either low confidence (single bit) or failure modes (all-on & alternating).

Thus one should observe that UPC barcodes have an embedded 6/6/6. -- But that's only if a person is "woked", as most people are asleep.

Hello, are you woked?
Bobby Jo

 

[brakelite]

Rev. 13:18 This calls for wisdom: let him who has understanding reckon the number of the beast, for it is a human number, its number is six hundred and sixty-six.​

... well, it seems that there are none in this Forum who have any Wisdom or Understanding, -- even after being given the method of calculation. Yeah, that's a surprise. NOT!

So if we have a "mark" to use as an example, we could look at a UPC barcode. In doing so we should find three "registration marks" at the beginning/middle/end of the barcode, which consist of two thin lines. (The product information is between the registration marks.) And with binary being used by computers to "read" the UPC, we should be aware that the number "6" in binary is a unique number because it is not a single bit; it not an "all-on"; and it's not "alternating" -- of which all are either low confidence (single bit) or failure modes (all-on & alternating).

Thus one should observe that UPC barcodes have an embedded 6/6/6. -- But that's only if a person is "woked", as most people are asleep.

Hello, are you woked?
Bobby Jo

Have known about this for 40 years. But it isn't the mark of the beast, because it isn't the number of anyones name. The 666 is the number of a name... Not a bar code.

 

[Sabertooth]

So if Scripture is true, and those who are WISE can CALCULATE the number of his NAME, (that being the a/c), -- I see a LOT of supposition but absolutely NO SOLUTION.

Rev. 13:18 This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.
Maybe there ARE NO WISE PEOPLE in this Forum, or maybe they're not very good at math. Personally I suspect BOTH! :)
Bobby Jo

I don't have a direct answer, but I have made some observations (that others seem to have overlooked).

 

[Bobby Jo]

Have known about this for 40 years. But it isn't the mark of the beast, because it isn't the number of anyones name. The 666 is the number of a name... Not a bar code.

REALLY?!?!?

IT"S A LOT OF THINGS!! -- It's the system, the individual, the methodology, and the mechanism.

And if you find one aspect, maybe you'll find the others, exactly as I've demonstrated ...
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

I don't have a direct answer, ...

... and neither does your worthless "source".

As Scripture suggests, -- who has wisdom, who has understanding? And I would observe, NONE IN THIS FORUM ...

Bobby Jo

 

[4Jesus]

I don't have a direct answer, but I have made some observations (that others seem to have overlooked).

Hi Sabertooth, I also have looked into that.

What strikes me is that there's three characters that were considered obsolete, although not exact as the 6, 60, 600. Why were the characters for 6, 90, and 900 left out from the modern?

The three obsolete characters were 6, 90, and 900. And obviously 60 doesn't equal 90, nor 600 equal 900. If you flip the 9s though, it matches. So it's a stretch, but it is weird that they were obsolete.

he three extra symbols are today written as ⟨ϛ⟩, ⟨ϟ⟩ and ⟨ϡ⟩.
This is under the "Use as numerals" heading on Greek alphabet - Wikipedia

One further thing, and this is also a stretch, the Social Security Administration of the US excludes use of "666" in the first 3 positions of a ss#. I wonder if only one being will be given the "special privilege" of having that number.

And this doesn't address the possibility that the characters in the manuscripts, where we get "666" from, could've been "616"/"919". Check out: Number of the Beast - Wikipedia

Nice website btw. The info is positioned effeciently.

 

[Nancy]

And you didn't even spell "sentence" correctly when you criticized him.