Born again believers are NOT appointed to God's wrath ( the great tribulation )

[ewq1938]

For example. Don't know how long you have been reading the Bible, but however long it's been, not one single time have you ever compared Revelation 6 and the 6th seal with that of Matthew 24:29? How many times should we assume the stars fall from heaven, in any sense? Both accounts involve that, for one thing. And Revelation 6 indicates it pertains to the 6th seal. does it not? Maybe you just don't interpret Scripture with Scripture when applicable? But instead interpret Scripture in isolation?

And the stars didn't fall at the time Christ spoke of them in Matthew right? It was prophetic, correct?

 

[MA2444]

Do you ever get tired of being childish? Yes, I will address any point you make. I already know that you will not do the same in return because I pointed out how Jesus will have not come as a thief yet as of the time of the sixth vial (Rev 16:12-16) and you clearly had no interest in addressing that since you know that it disproves pre-trib.

Oh, it does not. You dont have to look for the Lord to come if you dontt want to,

Matthew 24:43
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up..../KJV

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Oh, it does not. You dont have to look for the Lord to come if you dontt want to,

Matthew 24:43
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up..../KJV

How does this address what I said? Can you acknowledge that Jesus will not have come as a thief yet, which means the rapture will not have happened yet, as of the time of the sixth vial?

Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

 

[MA2444]

How does this address what I said? Can you acknowledge that Jesus will not have come as a thief yet, which means the rapture will not have happened yet, as of the time of the sixth vial?

Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Since the Euphrates river has already dried up. is it reasonable to assume that God, in His everlasting mercy has postponed the rapture? I think it is possible! Probable perhaps.

Ok when Jesus comes to rapture his people, know one knows when it will be. It will be like thiefs hit people, when they least expect it. There are four Watches to the night, each 3 hours long and the first watch is from 6 PM to 9PM, 2nd watch 9pm to 12AM, 3rd watch is 12AM to 3AM and 4th watch is from 3AM to 6AM. We don't know which watch Jesus will come in, right? So if a guy don't know when the rapture is exactly, then shouldn't he start watching early to be sure he doesn't miss it?

How about like this, you are a soldier and you have a mission to do and then you have to make it to the rendevoux point in time to be picked up by the chopper. But a close exploding enemy hand grenade fortunately did not harm you but it destroyed youe backpack and it's contents. The rendevoux time was written in yur papers! Now you don't know what time the chopper is coming! Or what day!

Personally, I'd prefer a Flaming Chariot ride to evac me! But that describes our situation, no one knows what time the evac is coming. So what do we do? I know one thing! It might real early! Boy I don't wanna miss my Evac, I have to try to be watching for them so I don't bugger it for myself! man left behind, right? The whole team must be watching. And it seems to me, that any prudent man in this situation would start the watch way earlier than we think it will happen, to make sure that, if, there is a chance to not have to go through the Great Tribulation, then they would be watching. That is what the verse is saying that I posted.

So a post-trib position to such an important rendevoux of not watching even way early...is insanity methinks.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Since the Euphrates river has already dried up. is it reasonable to assume that God, in His everlasting mercy has postponed the rapture? I think it is possible! Probable perhaps.

No. Why would He do that? Prophecy is about things that are going to happen as written. You can't change what has already been determined. The point I'm making is not that the rapture occurs at the sixth vial, but that it will have not occurred yet at that point because Jesus is still saying He is coming as a thief at that point.

Can you acknowledge that He will not have come as a thief and the rapture will not have occurred yet before the sixth vial? If so, then can you also acknowledge that the tribulation starts before the sixth vial and therefore a pre-trib rapture is not possible since the rapture will occur some time after the tribulation has started?

I'm not trying to goad you here with these questions. I'm asking these questions sincerely and asking you to think about this and give an honest response.

Ok when Jesus comes to rapture his people, know one knows when it will be. It will be like thiefs hit people, when they least expect it.

Right. But, in the case of unbelievers they are not expecting it at all, so it will catch them completely off guard. In our case, we are expecting it, but we just don't know when. So, when it happens we might be initially surprised, but we will not be caught completely off guard because we are expecting Him to come and the rapture to occur at some point.

That's what Paul meant when he wrote this:

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

See verse 4 there? Paul isn't saying that we will know when Jesus will come as a thief in the night, but since we are not in spiritual darkness, it will not overtake us as a thief the way it will for unbelievers who will be destroyed with "sudden destruction" when it occurs from which "they shall not escape". But, we will escape it by being changed to have immortal bodies and being caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

There are four Watches to the night, each 3 hours long and the first watch is from 6 PM to 9PM, 2nd watch 9pm to 12AM, 3rd watch is 12AM to 3AM and 4th watch is from 3AM to 6AM. We don't know which watch Jesus will come in, right?

Right.

So if a guy don't know when the rapture is exactly, then shouldn't he start watching early to be sure he doesn't miss it?

I've tried to tell you this before, but when scripture tell us to watch it's not telling us to watch up in the sky for Jesus to come. You can do that if you want and that's fine. But, what we are supposed to be watching for is to not be deceived like Jesus talked about in the Olivet Discourse. We need to be spiritually alert and sober and make sure we are in spiritual light like Paul talks about in 1 Thess 5:2-9 so that we don't end up being among those who are in spiritual darkness and end up being destroyed.

How about like this, you are a soldier and you have a mission to do and then you have to make it to the rendevoux point in time to be picked up by the chopper. But a close exploding enemy hand grenade fortunately did not harm you but it destroyed youe backpack and it's contents. The rendevoux time was written in yur papers! Now you don't know what time the chopper is coming! Or what day!

What is your point here exactly? You know I'm not saying that we can know the day or hour of the rapture, right? So, I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me here.

Personally, I'd prefer a Flaming Chariot ride to evac me! But that describes our situation, no one knows what time the evac is coming. So what do we do? I know one thing! It might real early! Boy I don't wanna miss my Evac, I have to try to be watching for them so I don't bugger it for myself! man left behind, right?

Sure, but what do you mean by this exactly? What do you do to watch for the rapture? Again, in my view, that involves being watchful and careful about not being deceived like Jesus and Paul talked about.

The whole team must be watching. And it seems to me, that any prudent man in this situation would start the watch way earlier than we think it will happen, to make sure that, if, there is a chance to not have to go through the Great Tribulation, then they would be watching. That is what the verse is saying that I posted.

I need you to explain to me what your understanding is of what watching entails in order to be able to respond to this.

So a post-trib position to such an important rendevoux of not watching even way early...is insanity methinks.

Who told you that post-tribs are not watching? If you read the Olivet Discourse and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 we can see things that we should be watching for that would tell us that His coming and the rapture are near and I am doing that. Such as a mass falling away and increase in wickedness and such. So, I don't understand you trying to claim that post-tribs are not watching. I think you don't really understand post-trib very well.

 

[MA2444]

No. Why would He do that? Prophecy is about things that are going to happen as written. You can't change what has already been determined. The point I'm making is not that the rapture occurs at the sixth vial, but that it will have not occurred yet at that point because Jesus is still saying He is coming as a thief at that point.

But if you can't think with an open mind then you can never learn anything.

Can you acknowledge that He will not have come as a thief and the rapture will not have occurred yet before the sixth vial? If so, then can you also acknowledge that the tribulation starts before the sixth vial and therefore a pre-trib rapture is not possible since the rapture will occur some time after the tribulation has started?

No, how'd you get here from what I wrote? And what do you mean, therefore a pretrib rapture is not possible since the rapture will occur some time after the tribulation has started? You have not been able to show that at all, so why claim it as fact? You are wrong.

Right. But, in the case of unbelievers they are not expecting it at all, so it will catch them completely off guard.

Right. Because it has already happened at that point because Jesus's coming for His Bride was by surprise and done very fast. So of couse they missed it.

In our case, we are expecting it, but we just don't know when

AND: any man with even a half brain would remember that, the word says that He will come when we least expect Him to! Am I right or not? So, you being post-trib, the days in which you least expect Him to come...is now, Pre-Trib! Right? So why arent you watching now?

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Sorry Brother, but we're having some disagreement with your theology here. Think Brother. Do you really think that anyone will be saying peace and safety during the great trib? That's a hoot!

See verse 4 there? Paul isn't saying that we will know when Jesus will come as a thief in the night, but since we are not in spiritual darkness, it will not overtake us as a thief the way it will for unbelievers who will be destroyed with "sudden destruction" when it occurs from which "they shall not escape". But, we will escape it by being changed to have immortal bodies and being caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

Now that's weird. I answerd you 3 days ago and got this far in my reply and then it glitched and was gone. I dont know if it's my computer or this site but this site gives me a lot of trouble to be able to post. I went away and restarted my computer and came back and my post was still gone. Now my post is back today? That's weird.

I was about 4/5 done replying so maybe it will let me finish it today, lol.

 

[MA2444]

See verse 4 there? Paul isn't saying that we will know when Jesus will come as a thief in the night, but since we are not in spiritual darkness, it will not overtake us as a thief the way it will for unbelievers who will be destroyed with "sudden destruction" when it occurs from which "they shall not escape". But, we will escape it by being changed to have immortal bodies and being caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

That's sorta almost right. But, a couple questions. Why are we not in spiritual darkness?

The 2nd question has to be based on your reply to this one.

I've tried to tell you this before, but when scripture tell us to watch it's not telling us to watch up in the sky for Jesus to come. You can do that if you want and that's fine. But, what we are supposed to be watching for is to not be deceived like Jesus talked about in the Olivet Discourse. We need to be spiritually alert and sober and make sure we are in spiritual light like Paul talks about in 1 Thess 5:2-9 so that we don't end up being among those who are in spiritual darkness and end up being destroyed.

I know. Never have I said differently.

Who told you that post-tribs are not watching? If you read the Olivet Discourse and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 we can see things that we should be watching for that would tell us that His coming and the rapture are near and I am doing that. Such as a mass falling away and increase in wickedness and such. So, I don't understand you trying to claim that post-tribs are not watching. I think you don't really understand post-trib very well.

You and your Pastor both tod me that in a different thread! We went all through that and nether of you had anything of substance to say about it.

I understand post-trib very well as I used to be post trib. I dunno if your sect has individual interprretations, I'm guessing probably. I asked both of you what harm is there in Believers starting to look for Jesus now rather than after the Tribulation, wherein is the evil in that? (I'll take first watch!)...and you guys went off about it being lies and evil which misreppresents Gods word and so forth like that. Which is not a credible answer!

Ok look at this way. A man has betrothed His bride and paid the price of the betrothal to the Father in charge of the Patricarchy. Now what happens? He goes away to prepare a place for Her and when He gets done building her a house or addition or whatever, a place, then He returns except no one knows when He will return exactly. It might be a year! And typically He usually returns for His Bride at night, then they light their lights and sound their horns and approach the Bride's house to receive Her unto Himself.

And we know how it went already, 5 of them were wise and ready, they had extra oil for their amps and were so excited for the return of the groom, they were watching for Him. And the other 5 were foolish and had no extra oil, they weren't watchim for Him, so they were not allowed to be Brides and were left behind. And it's obvious why.

If you got engaged to a nice girl and then left to go have a house built for her and afterwards you would return for her and then you could determine the exact date of the ceremony. Be ready, sweetheart!
But what if, when you showed up...what do you expect? When you spoke of marriage, was she excited? They usually are! But suppose that when you had the house finished and went for her, that she was sleeping/hung over/whatever, too much celebrating and not enough preperation. You expected her to come running out into the yard yelling Welcome! and she runs into your ams before you are even up to her house yet! This girl is excited. But if she wasnt ready and you had to pound on the door for a half hour before she even woke up and answered it....would you still marry her? Or if she said, well, I thought about it and I want to travel some to the places I've never been to like Hawaii and stuff before I get married, but then I will marry you! Is that girl excited to marry Him? If your fiance said that to you, would you have married her? So they get left behind. She didn't even order the Wedding Dress yet! She wasn't watching for Him.

I don't think you would have married her if it went like the foolish ones, and I don't Jesus will either.

If you had to summarize what it is that the Bride must do in order to prepare herself to be taken and wed...what would you say?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

But if you can't think with an open mind then you can never learn anything.

To you, thinking with an open mind apparently equates to changing scripture to make it say what you want it to say. It clearly indicates that the Jesus coming as a thief, and the rapture, do not occur yet as of the timing of the sixth vial. You are trying to change that because you are too stubborn to admit that your doctrine contradicts what is indicated in Revelation 16:12-17.

No, how'd you get here from what I wrote? And what do you mean, therefore a pretrib rapture is not possible since the rapture will occur some time after the tribulation has started? You have not been able to show that at all, so why claim it as fact? You are wrong.

Do you think the tribulation starts after the sixth vial is opened? I doubt that. You believe it starts before that, I'm sure. Yet, we can see that Jesus has not yet come as a thief, which is when the rapture occurs, as of the time of the sixth vial. So, how does that not disprove a pretrib rapture? You try to get around this by moving the goal posts and saying that the timing of the rapture could be changed. No, it can't. The Father has already determined the timing and that's why He knows, but no one else does (Matt 24:36). It will not occur any time before the sixth vial, but you don't want to acknowledge that.

Right. Because it has already happened at that point because Jesus's coming for His Bride was by surprise and done very fast. So of couse they missed it.

His wrath comes down right after His bride is gathered to Him in the air. You're not recognizing that. You don't understand that 1 Thess 4:14-5:3 is describing one event, which is also referenced by Paul in 2 Thess 1:7-10.

AND: any man with even a half brain would remember that, the word says that He will come when we least expect Him to! Am I right or not? So, you being post-trib, the days in which you least expect Him to come...is now, Pre-Trib! Right? So why arent you watching now?

You just don't get it. There are certain things that have to happen first before the rapture, as Paul indicated in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3. That includes a mass falling away from the faith and the revealing of the man of sin. Jesus indicated that there are things that will occur which would indicate that His coming and the rapture are near (Matt 24:32-33), but that doesn't mean we know the exact day and hour. So, if you believe those things have already occurred, then you can know that His coming is near. But, how near? No one knows exactly. But, we are expecting Him to come in the near future when those things occur. You have the wrong idea that Him coming unexpectedly means He could have come any time after He ascended to heaven without anything having to happen first. That's not what Him coming unexpectedly means.

Also, you continue to not understand what it means to watch. What are you watching for exactly? Scripture says we should be watching out that we are not deceived and watching to make sure we are staying spiritually sober and alert. Who says that post-tribs aren't doing that? We are.

Sorry Brother, but we're having some disagreement with your theology here. Think Brother. Do you really think that anyone will be saying peace and safety during the great trib? That's a hoot!

What is your understanding of what "the great trib" entails? This discussion is pointless if we are not even defining terms the same way. In my view, the great trib involves mass persecution, deception and a significant increase in wickedness. It is primarily spiritual tribulation. The context of them saying peace and safety is not related to world peace and safety as many imagine. Look at the context of what Paul wrote in 1 Thess 5:2-9. He contrasts believes who are in spiritual light with unbelievers who are in spiritual darkness. Believers are spiriutally alert and sober while he refers to unbelievers as being spiritually asleep or drunk. So, them saying peace and safety has to do with those who think they are spiritually at peace and safe while not realizing that God is angry with them and will take out His wrath on them when Jesus comes and brings "sudden destruction" on them from which "they shall not escape" (1 Thess 5:2-3).

Now that's weird. I answerd you 3 days ago and got this far in my reply and then it glitched and was gone. I dont know if it's my computer or this site but this site gives me a lot of trouble to be able to post. I went away and restarted my computer and came back and my post was still gone. Now my post is back today? That's weird.

I was about 4/5 done replying so maybe it will let me finish it today, lol.

I have had slowness on this site at times and I've had to clear temporary files to make it faster, so you could try that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That's sorta almost right. But, a couple questions. Why are we not in spiritual darkness?

If you belong to Christ then you have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you and helping you stay in the spiritual light by being able to discern what is true and what is false which then helps to keep you from being deceivd and falling into spiritual darkness. The key is to stay in tune with the Holy Spirit by being spirtually disciplined.

You and your Pastor both tod me that in a different thread! We went all through that and nether of you had anything of substance to say about it.

In your opinion. I think we've had plenty of substance to say about it, but you lack the discernment to understand it.

I understand post-trib very well as I used to be post trib. I dunno if your sect has individual interprretations, I'm guessing probably.

What do you mean by "individual interpretations"?

I asked both of you what harm is there in Believers starting to look for Jesus now rather than after the Tribulation, wherein is the evil in that? (I'll take first watch!)...and you guys went off about it being lies and evil which misreppresents Gods word and so forth like that. Which is not a credible answer!

What do you mean exactly when you talk about looking for Jesus now? Are you talking about going outside and looking up in the sky for Him to come? Again, in our view there are certain things that have to happen first before He comes and the rapture occurs, so we are to watch for those things and watch that we are not deceived, as Jesus Himself talked about.

Ok look at this way. A man has betrothed His bride and paid the price of the betrothal to the Father in charge of the Patricarchy. Now what happens? He goes away to prepare a place for Her and when He gets done building her a house or addition or whatever, a place, then He returns except no one knows when He will return exactly. It might be a year! And typically He usually returns for His Bride at night, then they light their lights and sound their horns and approach the Bride's house to receive Her unto Himself.

And we know how it went already, 5 of them were wise and ready, they had extra oil for their amps and were so excited for the return of the groom, they were watching for Him. And the other 5 were foolish and had no extra oil, they weren't watchim for Him, so they were not allowed to be Brides and were left behind. And it's obvious why.

What you're not getting is that Jesus tells us what happens to those who are left behind. They are not allowed to just go on living their lives as pre-tribs think. They will be destroyed. Just read Luke 17:26-37 and you should see that. In that passsage, He talks about one being taken and one being left. The one being left is destroyed and ends up being bird feed (they are found where the vultures gather). Jesus compares that event to what happened with the flood in Noah's day. Noah and his family were saved on the ark and everyone else was killed. Jesus said it will be like that when He comes. We (the church) will be saved from His wrath, but everyone else will be killed just as all unbelievers were killed in the flood. Jesus makes that same comparison in Matthew 24:35-39.

If you had to summarize what it is that the Bride must do in order to prepare herself to be taken and wed...what would you say?

I would reference what Paul said.

1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

To be ready for Jesus to come for us, we need to make sure we have faith in Him and our loving God and others as He commanded and that we have the hope of salvation that He will bring when He comes. Being spiritually disciplined by doing things like reading the Word, praying, serving and having fellowship with other believers regularly helps us to do that.

 

[MA2444]

You just don't get it. There are certain things that have to happen first before the rapture, as Paul indicated in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3. That includes a mass falling away from the faith and the revealing of the man of sin. Jesus indicated that there are things that will occur which would indicate that His coming and the rapture are near

There are no prophetical events whch must occur in order for the rapture to happen. So the rapture is said to be imminent. That's where the doctrine of Imminency comes from.

It provides three key points about what imminency implies: 1) Christ may return at any moment without delay or warning signs, 2) the rapture will be signless and largely unexpected, and 3) no prophesied events must occur before the rapture.

I would suggest for you to study up on the doctrine of imminency because if we are not on the same page with regard to imminency then we'll never make it to Revelation and the seals.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There are no prophetical events whch must occur in order for the rapture to happen. So the rapture is said to be imminent. That's where the doctrine of Imminency comes from.

That's not what Paul taught.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Paul references the rapture (coming of Christ and our gathering together unto him) in verse 1 and then proceeds to explain that the day of the rapture "shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed". So, "the doctrine of imminency" is not based on scripture. What you don't seem to understand is that even once those things happen, it doesn't mean anyone knows the day or hour of His coming and the rapture at that point. It just says those things happen first, but it doesn't say the rapture occurs immediately once those things happen.

It provides three key points about what imminency implies: 1) Christ may return at any moment without delay or warning signs, 2) the rapture will be signless and largely unexpected, and 3) no prophesied events must occur before the rapture.

I would suggest for you to study up on the doctrine of imminency because if we are not on the same page with regard to imminency then we'll never make it to Revelation and the seals.

What is there to study about it? It's not taught in scripture. That doctrine blatantly contradicts what Paul taught, as I showed, and also contradicts what Jesus taught about things that would happen beforehand.

 

[MA2444]

That's not what Paul taught.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Paul references the rapture (coming of Christ and our gathering together unto him) in verse 1 and then proceeds to explain that the day of the rapture "shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed". So, "the doctrine of imminency" is not based on scripture. What you don't seem to understand is that even once those things happen, it doesn't mean anyone knows the day or hour of His coming and the rapture at that point. It just says those things happen first, but it doesn't say the rapture occurs immediately once those things happen.


What is there to study about it? It's not taught in scripture. That doctrine blatantly contradicts what Paul taught, as I showed, and also contradicts what Jesus taught about things that would happen beforehand.

That the rapture is imminent is clearly taught in scripture. No need to post any of them since you are in rejection to them already.

So what's left to talk about? Nothing. We are not even close to being on the same page.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That the rapture is imminent is clearly taught in scripture. No need to post any of them since you are in rejection to them already.

No need to back up your claims? You know others read these posts as well, right? Do it for their benefit if nothing else.

So what's left to talk about? Nothing. We are not even close to being on the same page.

You're not willing to discuss any of the scriptures I posted that disprove pre-trib. Meanwhile, all you do is make claims without posting any scripture to back them up. Why is that? Do you think all you need to do is make claims like this without showing any scripture which teaches what you're claiming?

I show you that the rapture does not occur as of the sixth vial and you try to sweep that under the rug. I show you that a mass falling away and revealing of the man of sin has to occur first before the rapture and you have no response. You have no response to what those scriptures indicate because you just believe what you want to believe instead of what scripture teaches and it's sad to see.

 

[MA2444]

No need to back up your claims? You know others read these posts as well, right? Do it for their benefit if nothing else.


You're not willing to discuss any of the scriptures I posted that disprove pre-trib. Meanwhile, all you do is make claims without posting any scripture to back them up. Why is that? Do you think all you need to do is make claims like this without showing any scripture which teaches what you're claiming?

I show you that the rapture does not occur as of the sixth vial and you try to sweep that under the rug. I show you that a mass falling away and revealing of the man of sin has to occur first before the rapture and you have no response. You have no response to what those scriptures indicate because you just believe what you want to believe instead of what scripture teaches and it's sad to see.

Well, your wrong about what you said. Nice try though. You learn that from your Pastor?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Well, your wrong about what you said. Nice try though. You learn that from your Pastor?

No Spiritual Israelite learns from the Word of God in the Bible. Now, do what he asked: Go find and show us the Scripture that supports your claim. Else it is a private interpretation.

 

[WPM]

No need to back up your claims? You know others read these posts as well, right? Do it for their benefit if nothing else.


You're not willing to discuss any of the scriptures I posted that disprove pre-trib. Meanwhile, all you do is make claims without posting any scripture to back them up. Why is that? Do you think all you need to do is make claims like this without showing any scripture which teaches what you're claiming?

I show you that the rapture does not occur as of the sixth vial and you try to sweep that under the rug. I show you that a mass falling away and revealing of the man of sin has to occur first before the rapture and you have no response. You have no response to what those scriptures indicate because you just believe what you want to believe instead of what scripture teaches and it's sad to see.

That is the Pretrib MO. They do not, because they cannot. Their doctrine is bankrupt!

 

[MA2444]

No Spiritual Israelite learns from the Word of God in the Bible. Now, do what he asked: Go find and show us the Scripture that supports your claim. Else it is a private interpretation.

You must be learning directly from them and you either don't get it or else have the biased narrative which baits Christians into their narrative which is patently false. So I don't take the bait from these guys.

You either, you use the same tactic and no matter what I say you...disniss it with one word and then ask me to speak some more to them and yem (or whatever your pronouns are?)

Nice try think whatever you want.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You must be learning directly from them and you either don't get it or else have the biased narrative which baits Christians into their narrative which is patently false. So I don't take the bait from these guys.

You either, you use the same tactic and no matter what I say you...disniss it with one word and then ask me to speak some more to them and yem (or whatever your pronouns are?)

Nice try think whatever you want.

Cop out. You avoid responsibility to find scripture to support your belief when asked.

Your credibility is gone as far as Im concerned. Good bye.

 

[MA2444]

Cop out. You avoid responsibility to find scripture to support your belief when asked.

Your credibility is gone as far as Im cincerned. Good bye.

More bait, sorry. No matter what I would say these guys wont carry a conversation, it's always the same with them, and apparently you too. Brush it off what was said and then try to draw the pretribs into an argument. Oh I've already established that the rapture is post trib or something similar. No thanks bro. That's not a conversation.

 

[WPM]

You must be learning directly from them and you either don't get it or else have the biased narrative which baits Christians into their narrative which is patently false. So I don't take the bait from these guys.

You either, you use the same tactic and no matter what I say you...disniss it with one word and then ask me to speak some more to them and yem (or whatever your pronouns are?)

Nice try think whatever you want.

You have nothing of biblical worth to bring to the table. All you have is noise, avoidance and insults. Pretrib is dead. It has been buried a long time ago.