In Ezekiel 47:12 it talks about the tree of life in Revelation 22:2. In Ezekiel 47:11 it says there are miry places that shall not be healed. Where are the miry places that shall not be healed in the NHNE?
Born again believers are NOT appointed to God's wrath ( the great tribulation )
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Well, we who are redeemed by the LORD, belonged to some of every nation, tribe, tongue. Some from every nation will be saved, but not all are saved are they.
Revelation 5:9
And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
Revelation 7:9
A Multitude from the Great Tribulation
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11 All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:
“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”
13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”
So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. 16 They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to [c]living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
The order, as I see it, is like this (I believe this all happens quickly up until the judgment which I believe takes place in eternity):
1. Jesus descends from heaven with His angels and the souls of the dead in Christ.
2. The dead in Christ are resurrected.
3. The dead in Christ and those who are alive and remain are all changed to have immortal bodies. The souls of the dead in Christ unite with their changed bodies at that point.
4. Those who are alive and remain are caught up together with the resurrected dead in Christ to meet the Lord in the air.
5. Jesus takes vengeance on living unbelievers by sending fire down on the entire earth, killing all of them (2 Thess 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-12).
6. The unsaved dead are resurrected.
7. All people from all-time are gathered before Jesus to give an account of themselves (Romans 14:10-12, Matt 25:31-46).
After everyone has given an account of themselves, that takes us to Matthew 13:30 which refers to what will happen at the end of the judgment. Jesus explained the parable of the wheat and tares (Matt 13:24-30) in Matthew 13:36-43. So, the context of Matthew 13:30 can be seen here:
Matthew 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
So, the tares being gathered to be burned equates to unbelievers being gathered and cast "into a furnace of fire" where "there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth". I believe that is referring to the same event as Revelation 20:15 which happens at the end of the judgment after everyone has given an account of themselves. So, you have unbelievers being cast into the lake of fire at that point and then believers inherit "the kingdom of their Father" in the new heavens and new earth for eternity.
Yea, I agree not everyone will be saved and I think that agrees with the leaves for healing being for the nations.
I think we have currently come to the heavenly Jerusalem which I believe is in NHNE, so I see the leaves healing or saving the nations/Gentiles.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Nowhere. Do you not care if you interpret those verses in a way that doesn't contradict any other verses? If you accept what it says in Revelation 21:4, then you will understand that there will be no death, crying, sorrow or pain in the NHNE. There can't be any need for healing if there is no death, crying, sorrow or pain. Only believers will inherit the NHNE and they will have immortal bodies. Unbelievers, meanwhile, will all be cast into the lake of fire (Rev 20:15, Rev 21:8).
I think they are for the everlasting consolation of His people, you also read God wipes away all tears from their eyes, so they have been suffering greatly due to the tribulations they endured. People can get something called PTSD. God will comfort and heal them for all eternity.
2 Thess 2
13 But we are [f]bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through [g]sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our [h]epistle.
16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and [i]establish you in every good word and work.
God has a glorious message of peace, mercy, love and hope from Him for all those who believe in Christ. God saves to the utmost all those who call on Him for help in time of troubles.
Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.
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Well there would be a need for healing “in” (I really should’ve said during instead of in) the NHNE if it is a place that is accessible to believers while the old heaven old earth still exist.
Ok, that’s a very good point, thanks for bringing that verse up. I’ll have to think about that.
Greatness of the New Priest
20 And inasmuch as He was not made priest without an oath 21 (for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him:“The Lord has sworn
And will not relent,
‘You are a priest [f]forever
According to the order of Melchizedek’ ”),
22 by so much more Jesus has become a [g]surety of a better covenant.
23 Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing. 24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Therefore He is also able to save [h]to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, [i]harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
The old heaven and old earth will not still exist when the NHNE is ushered in.
Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
The 'sea' is explained as to its nature by an angel, as in the many waters. It's not speaking of oceans, more of earthly demonic politics of the nations. It is how I view that, so then symbolic. The great harlot sits spread over many waters, all that will be gone in the New Earth.
Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.
Rev 17
1 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying [a]to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”
3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of [b]her fornication. 5 And on her forehead a name was written:
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS
OF THE EARTH.
6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.
The Meaning of the Woman and the Beast
7 But the angel said to me, “Why did you marvel? I will tell you the [c]mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to [d]perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and [e]yet is.9 “Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to [f]perdition.
12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast. 14 These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.”
15 Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which you [g]saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. 18 And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”
I agree, and I’m not saying NHNE have come down yet. What I’m saying is we can currently enter into New Jerusalem which I would say is in NHNE. Old heaven old earth still exists while people can come to the heavenly Jerusalem.
Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
In it saying you have come; this is our current reality.
Philippians 3
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.
Ephesians 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
That’s right, also in John 14:3 Jesus says I go to prepare a place for you. Surely if the initial creation only took seven days, the NHNE have already been created.
Jesus promises to come back and takes us to be with Him where He is. That happens in 2 ways, when we physically die, and when He returns in flaming fire to judge the world and catch us up to be with Him forever at the end of the world, if we have not passed on at the time of His returning. It is the spirit of a man which is saved in the Day of the Lord Jesus, not the body as the body is dead because of sin. We get a new glorified body, we lose this old one, thankfully, who really wants to keep it, constantly dying off, dying you shall die God said to Adam and Eve. But our new body God will clothe us with will be conformed like unto His own glorified body He has now.
John 14
“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many [a]mansions; if it were not so, [b]I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.”
5 Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
That's a viable interpretation of what it means when it says there will be no more sea. I haven't given that a lot of thought, so I don't have an opinion set in stone on that. I tend to think it's probably symbolic.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
That's what you would say, but it's not what scripture says. The new, heavenly Jerusalem is not a place in the NHNE, it's a symbolic description of the church. It is described as "the bride, the Lamb's wife" (Rev 21:9). Yes, we are part of it even now, but we're still waiting for the time when Jesus comes from heaven and eliminates death, crying, sorrow and pain from the earth forever.
Yet, the new heavens and new earth are not ushered in until the old heaven and earth are passed away (Rev 21:1), so you can't call the heavenly Jerusalem that we come to spiritually now the new heavens and new earth or say that it's in the NHNE since the old heaven and earth are still here and have not yet passed away.
Yes, but in a spiritual way we already are with Him, where He is.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Yeah, but it is not fully realized yet as the creation is not in it's final eternal state.
Hebrews 2:5
For He has not put the world to come, of which we speak, in subjection to angels.
You are confusing the wrath of God at the end against the wicked with the ongoing wrath of Satan against the Church.
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