Born again believers are NOT appointed to God's wrath ( the great tribulation ) Pray you be counted worthy to escape= the rapture.
Born again believers are NOT appointed to God's wrath ( the great tribulation )
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The “rapture” = Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Rapture Wimpism
Any student of Scripture with even a cursory knowledge of the NT Church knows that tribulation in the form of persecution, suffering, and death has been the lot of the Church ever since its birth. From its persecution at the hands of the Jews, to that under the Roman emperors and empires, to that today under Islam and other ideologies; the Church's experience with tribulation has been unrelenting, and its death toll over the millennia is counted in the tens of millions.
In the NT, we see in the book of Acts a complete account of how the disciples and Christ's followers were hated and persecuted as Jesus had predicted (Matthew 24:9). In Acts 4: "And they laid hands on them [Peter and John], and put them in prison" (verse 3). In Acts 5, they were "beaten" (verse 40). As they departed from the "council", they rejoiced "that they were counted worthy to suffer for his name"(verse 41). In Acts 7, Stephen was killed for his stand (verses 54-60). In Acts 8:1 "There was a great persecution against the church." In Acts 16, Paul and Silas were beaten and cast into prison. In Acts 21, persecution resulted in Paul being beaten, and brought before rulers, before whom he testified (Acts 22). In Acts 22:19 we read that Paul confessed that prior to his conversion, he had "imprisoned and beaten in every synagogue" those who believed in Christ.
There was, and is, no lack of tribulation for the NT Church.
But deplorably, we see today a generation of what can best be described as “rapture wimps.” This generation of North American believers, the most “molycoddled and milquetoast” in the history of the Christian Church, seems in large part to believe that it is also entitled to escape the trials and privations which have beset the historic Church, and to be “...carried to the skies on flowery beds of ease” as the beloved hymn “Am I a Soldier of the Cross” describes.
The following partial enumeration of NT tribulation references...:
John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
2 Corinthians 1:4
Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.
1 Thessalonians 3:4
For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.
Revelation 1:9
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
...makes it clear that there is no room for rapture wimps in the Christian Church. In solidarity with other believers in parts of the world who suffer tribulation even as we read this, we must be prepared to, as did and do these, “fight to win the prize and sail through bloody seas”, as we see the hymnwriter further pen.
God has promised...:
John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
...that we can be triumphant in Him even in the midst of tribulation. He promises us all of His grace and resources to make this a reality.
But the promise is only for those who refuse to be rapture wimps.
LOL!! Yes tribulations every day but NOT the great tribulation that we are told to pray that we be counted worthy to escape=believers are not appointed to the great wrath of God( the great tribulation years. ).
No we are not appointed to the wrath of God, but we sure ARE appointed to Satans persecution...nobody will escape that either and only true Christians with rock solid faith will be carried through by the seal of the Holy Spirit.
I certainly agree with the Church going through tribulation which could be viewed as great tribulation. What is your view on Matthew 24:40-41? Who is taken<3880> and who is left?
Matthew 24:40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41Two women shall begrinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
I see no reason to limit the wrath of God to the second half of the Tribulation. Jesus calls the first half of the tribulation affliction/persecution (thilpsis, Greek word for 'tribulation') in Matt 24.9, which occurs in the first 3 1/2 years. The second half will be an intensive tribulation. The first half will have many people killed, I call this the Tribulation, whereas the second half is known as the Great Tribulation, neither half will be comfortable.
Galgal
Member
The rapture of the Church is the taking of a portion of the faithful, the "five wise virgins," to the Lord, who will appear before this in Israel in the form of "the elect from the four winds," that is, the "Philadelphian Church" of Revelation, who will enter the eastern gate of the Third Temple from the day of Yom Teruah to Yom Kippur, before the closing of the eastern gate. Being "elect from the four winds" depends on God, being among the "five wise virgins" depends on the "purchase" of the "oil" of the Holy Spirit by the believer, that is, offering oneself as a sacrifice to God for holy deeds.
Thus, only those who in tribulation now can avoid the great tribulation. These are the members of the two churches of Revelation: Smyrna, which will build the Third Temple, and Philadelphia, which will enter the eastern gate of the Temple. Only Philadelphia will be spared the "hour of temptation." The remaining 5 will be able to make aliyah only after the 6th vial of wrath - if they are not tempted by the miracles of the Antichrist, who will capture almost all of Christianity.
ewq1938
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Wrong.
Born again believers ARE appointed to satan's wrath ( the great tribulation ). God's wrath starts at the 7th trump, which comes after the trib has ended.
TribulationSigns
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No.
The great tribulation is not the wrath of God. It is a time of testing or trials FOR the Saints in the church until God told them to come out of her (Babylon the Great - church) when He JUDGES His House with the plagues. THIS will be when the wrath of God will take place and the Saints will not partake of the plagues.
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Amen.
So many things are clear in scripture.You have to navigate the way to see clearly but it is there.
ewq1938
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The timeframe of the taken and left is the second coming. That's the subject of the passage involving multiple examples of what it will be like when Christ returns. So, ity is Christ who takes or leaves people. Obviously that is the rapture VS. those who suffer God's wrath.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
No, we aren’t under God’s wrath as Born Again and never will be...we are under spiritual warfare though, for me just lately, it’s constant...that enemy hates those who are Gods Children, and will do all he can to destroy our faith...he ain’t got a chance in Henry Of ever doing that to me...I was gifted the faith to believe that God will never let his children down.....my faith came from God and my faith is in God...which just keeps on growing and getting stronger day by day as I put my faith and trust in Him and no other.
All Glory To God My Spirit Father.
All Glory To God My Spirit Father.
Great tribulation with the wrath of God. Well God's wrath is against them that do evil right now. God gives them tribulation when He returns, and when Christ returns He gives rest to God's people.
Now please read when do the people of God gain rest? And notice that the tribulations the church endures is of God as manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God against the wicked and the justification of the church counted worthy of the kingdom of God. The church gains rest-relief at the fiery return of Christ. The only second time returning, no third return.
2 Thess 1
3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and [a]tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest[b] evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;
6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
Now please read when do the people of God gain rest? And notice that the tribulations the church endures is of God as manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God against the wicked and the justification of the church counted worthy of the kingdom of God. The church gains rest-relief at the fiery return of Christ. The only second time returning, no third return.
2 Thess 1
3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and [a]tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest[b] evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;
6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
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Ronald David Bruno
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I am a Mid-Trib/Pre-Wrath adherent, which is not too popular. I think the "last trumpet" is #7, which releases the 7 Bowls of Wrath. Many things happen at the sound of the Senth Turmpet: Jesus
So yes we will have time go through likely 3 1/2 years of tue Great Tribulation, but after the 1260 days, the wrath comes ( which in Rev. 2, God tells the faithful church that we ate not appointed to wrath. So, there is aperiid of time from day 1260 to day 1335, wherein lies the wrath.
We are experiencing the Beginning of Sorrows now. However, we must realize even though the entire world will be judged, the focus on Jerusalem has always been the fulcrum. Jesus does return to war against His enemies ... where? Jerusalem. He returns in clouds as He left and His feet touch down on the Mt. Of Olives.
For more details:
Revelation 10:4 - Do not write what you have heard...
That is one I cannot explain. So many differing views I kind of gave up on trying to understand.
I do "think" it has to do with His timing and that nobody knows the day or hour of His return, all things will be as in the days of Noah.
And Noah lived through all of that evil time, as a preacher of righteousness, right up until the end when he went into the ark. Then came the destruction of that world from God.
As also did Lot, Abraham's nephew, lived in Sodom to the last day of that city of the plains.
By inference so also with us, will it happen by the same example
2 Peter 2
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to [b]hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)— 9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of [c]dignitaries, 11 whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.
The ones taken are taken away to be destroyed, they are gathered out of His kingdom all things that offend and cause iniquity (evil workers).
The ones who remain are saved alive at His coming and they inherit the earth (all things).
The flood came and took them all away to destruction, while Noah remained alive on the earth.
The disciples asked where are they taken? Well where the body is (corpse) is, there the eagles, (birds of prey which eat the bodies) will be eating. Note 'The Great Supper of God' in Revelation where all the birds of the air eat the flesh of them that fought against the Lord.
Luke 17
22 Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, [h]‘Look here!’ or ‘Look there!’ Do not go after them or follow them. 24 For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day. 25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
31 “In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his [i]goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there will be two [j]men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36 [k]Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”
37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”
So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
Taken away by the angels to destruction, the Tares are gathered and cast into the fire.
The Parable of the Tares Explained
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.
39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
So then them that are taken away are to be consunmed in hell ( eaten by the birds )
The ones taken perish. The ones left saved. The ones who remain inherit all things
Matthew 24
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
So then them that are taken away are to be consunmed in hell ( eaten by the birds )
The ones taken perish. The ones left saved. The ones who remain inherit all things
Matthew 24
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
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