Biblical Mary

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Taken

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God said "you will conceive in your womb".

More precisely, the Angel as a servant of God, on Gods Behalf is who said.

Yes, God did what he said he would.

More precisely, God did what the Angel said God would.

But that doesn't necessarily involve a male "seed"

Involving a "male seed", was not the issue.

So there are other possibilities besides the one you give.

What I say pertaining expressly to Mary, is what Scripture reveals.
 

Illuminator

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The Catholic dictionary defines the so-called fallen nature as a nature that
lacks the right balance it had originally. It is a wounded but not perverted
nature. Since the fall, man has a built-in bias away from what is morally
good and toward what is wrong. He is weakened in his ability to know the
truth and to want the truly good.

The fallen nature is widely-believed inherited from one's biological father;
and is one of the widely-believed reasons that Jesus was virgin conceived.

My question is: Whence did Eve acquire the fallen nature?

Eve was the first to taste the forbidden fruit; and when she did, nothing
happened. Eve went right on just as naked as before without the slightest
concern about propriety. It wasn't till Adam tasted the fruit that the concept
of indecency entered her mind and she constructed an apron of fig leaves to
cover her pelvic area.

The thing is; seeing as how Eve was already in existence before Adam tasted
the fruit, then it was too late for the material taken from his body to pass
something on to her.

So: whence did Eve get the fallen nature if not from Adam and not from the
fruit?

Rev 12:9 identifies the Serpent of Gen 3:1 as the Devil.

He has the power of death (Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the
human body and the human mind in ways not easily detected. (Luke 13:16,
Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2). And the Devil has been a deciever and a
murderer from the very beginning. (John 8:44)

FAQ: When does the Devil go to work on people. . . in the womb or out of
the womb?


A: Adam and his wife demonstrate that the Devil's work can be done on
adults, but I'm guessing that for most of us it's in the womb. (Ps 51:5 &
58:3)


NOTE: I really have to hand it to the Devil; he's very good at shifting blame
away from himself. For quite a few years now it's been traditional to believe
biological fathers propagate the fallen nature; when it's been the Devil all
along.

How he has managed to hoodwink so many people for so long a time I don't
know, but what's really ironic about it is that there are people behind pulpits,
and chairing whole Sunday school departments, helping him do it as
unsuspecting accomplices; which goes to show that if a lie is repeated
often enough, widely enough, and loudly enough by people held in high
regard; pretty soon it's accepted by the masses as true without thought or
question.

A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong;
Gives it a superficial appearance of being right.

Thomas Paine

_
FAULT LINES

Original sin is the term we use to describe mankind’s first transgression – Adam’s fall. It is also the term we use to describe the consequences or effects of that fall. For Adam, original sin was a personal, actual sin. For us, it’s an impersonal sin, not an actual sin. But here we distinguish; we do not separate, because it’s all of a piece. There is a bond that unites sin in all its forms.

When teachers discuss the mystery of original sin, they often use the metaphor of a “stain on the soul”. But that’s only a metaphor. Sin isn’t essentially a stain; it isn’t a spiritual substance. It isn’t a thing at all. It is, rather, the lack of something, the absence of something, namely sanctifying grace. The indwelling life of the Trinity was evacuated from human nature by Adam’s sin. That’s what original sin is. We have to get at it by explaining what it isn’t. It’s the absence of something necessary for human beings to reach their divinely appointed end. The absence of sanctifying grace certainly does plunge us into darkness and blindness and death.

But it’s critically important for us to recognize that original sin is not something that’s transmitted biologically or psychologically. Yet at the same time we can speak of original sin as being something hereditary. Pope Pius XI wrote that “Original sin is the hereditary but impersonal fault of Adam’s descendants.”

Even that word choice - fault – might lead you to believe that original sin is something that renders us guilty. But it isn’t. Think of fault here in the sense of the San Andreas Fault, the fracture in the earth’s crust that renders California vulnerable to devastating earthquakes. It isn’t my fault, but it’s like a fault line that runs my soul and inclines me to be separate from God.

Original sin is the hereditary but impersonal fault of Adam’s descendants: One man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men…By one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, who have sinned in him. (Rom 5:18-19)

The mystery, of course, is how we sinned in Adam. We sinned in Adam, in a sense, because there is a mystical solidarity we share with him, based upon two realities: biologically, we’re his descendants; and theologically, he’s our covenant head. As our father, he is our representative in making the covenant with God. Since he broke the covenant, we, his progeny, inherit the consequences. Consider an analogy from human relations: If I mismanaged my business affairs and ended by declaring bankruptcy before passing my estate to my sons and daughter, my creditors could pursue my children, now rendered debtors through our family bond.

In effect, original sin means the loss of sanctifying grace and, therefore, the loss of eternal life. The soul is immortal, and people in hell will live everlastingly, though miserably. Eternal life is more than everlasting. It is God’s life, divine life. God alone is eternal because He utterly transcends time. So when we speak of eternal life, we are talking about sharing in the very being and communion of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And that is what humanity lost through original sin.

Original sin is hereditary but impersonal. It is contracted, not committed; and we contract original sin without consent. That is why God can remove original sin without personal consent, as He does with newborn babies on their baptismal day.

The same thing can be said for actual sin. Actual sin can only be committed through informed consent. And so it can only be removed through informed consent. That’s why we need confession.

THE LAW OF (MORAL) GRAVITY

It can be helpful to keep in mind that sin is like a terminal – but curable – illness, one that afflicts all of the organs of the body. Only in this case, it affects the eternal life of the soul.

Are people better off not knowing that they are sick? Or how accessible (though difficult) the cure is? Are they any happier not being told how serious – but also how treatable – their condition is?

For me, the key is remembering that sin is more than breaking laws, it is breaking lives – our own and others’.

Likewise, our spiritual life is far more precious – and fragile – than physical life. And far more fulfilling, eternally speaking.

Just because people don’t recognize all (or any) of God’s laws, and how they reflect His loving concern for our spiritual and physical health, doesn’t change the fact that it’s all still true. If an overwhelming majority of Americans wanted to abolish the law of gravity, and so both houses of congress voted to repeal it, and the president signed it into law – what would happen if the president and all the congressman decided to celebrate their “liberation” by jumping off the White House roof? They wouldn’t break the law of gravity, of course; their fall would demonstrate gravity, and that law would break them and whatever bones hit first.

What people often forget is that the moral laws of God are just as firmly fixed as the physical laws – it’s just that the results of sin are not as visible or immediately painful as broken bones.

That’s why the church has to get the word out – both the bad news of sin’s deadly effect, and the Good News of Christ as the only total cure. And again, that’s why we need confession.

“Lord, Have Mercy” The Healing Power of Confession by Scott Hahn, Doubleday, April 2003, pg. 72-75
 

Wrangler

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If God, A Spirit, fertilized a human womans egg, Shouldn't God be chained in hell with other spirits who fertilized a human woman egg ?

Wow! God is sovereign. Spirits are not.

You are stuck on something here very peculiar. I'm not sure what sin you are associating with sexual reproduction. I guess you are fully vested in your doctrine.

What are you talking about "David's kingdom" with no end? Scripture?

2 Samuel 7:16
 

Wrangler

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How come you do no know where a womans egg is and where the womans egg is when it IS fertilized?

What Scripture says when Mary's egg was when it was fertilized?

Then try Scripture. Find where ANYTHING what so ever speaks of God fertilizing the egg/see of his own created woman kind of thing.

I am at a loss at your entire line of thought. Keep on parsing synonyms Sue. You can do it!
 

Ronald Nolette

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I had to read this TWICE because I simply couldn't believe the sheer stupidity of your post.
Einstein - pay attention to what you just posted.

In your effort to "prove" to me that "Romanism" was a valid term - YOU posted from the dictionary:
*********************************************************************************
Romanism

Also found in: Thesaurus, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.
Related to Romanism: romanticist
Ro·man·ism
(rō′mə-nĭz′əm)

n. Offensive
Roman Catholicism.
American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2016 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.
Romanism
(ˈrəʊməˌnɪzəm)

n
(Roman Catholic Church) Roman Catholicism, esp when regarded as excessively or superstitiously ritualistic
***********************************************************************************

Do you see the text in RED??
In the depths of your ignorance - do you grasp what this is saying?

I didn't think so . . .

Well Bullwinkle I don't care if it is an offensive term to define Roman Catholicism. Next point? I find many of the doctrines of Romanism offensive to who God is!
 

Ronald Nolette

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No - I showed you a LIE.

I proved to you that Semiramis was married to another man - and that she ad Nimrod didn't even live in the same century.
@Mungo showed you the SAME proof.

I ALSO gave you historical evidence about the Miter - AND the cult of Dagon worshippers - and that there was NO way that the miter OR Catholicism could have been associated with them.
YOU have chosen to keep pushing the unsubstantiated LIES - and when called upon to offer unbiased historcal references - you FAIL to do that.

You've been given historical references including 4 Encyclopedias, ALL of Ralph Woodrow's research references - as well as proof from Encyclopedia Britannica - which YOU falsely stated was the source for your claim that Semiramis and Nimrod were married.

You're an anti=Catholic NOT because you "disagree" with the Catholic Church - but because you LIE about it.
Consider yourself historically-SPANKED . . .

Ands Ishowed you that others say Nimrod and Semiramis were married. So bullwinkle we disagree. Just because you are so arrogant and will only accept "credible" (which you refuse to define) historic scholars, too bad. But in several of your supposed rebuttals- they use terms lik,e probably or maybe- far from empirical credible history by even your snobbish standards.
 

Mungo

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I think it depends on what is meant by fertilise.
You seem to have a very rigid view that it has to involve male "seed" and has to take place outside the womb.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Ummmm, aren't YOU the one who tried to claim that Encyclopedia Britannica agreed with YOU and Hislop?
Now, they're "MY" source?? Sooooo, are you now recanting your false claim that this encyclopedia shows that Nimrod and Semiramis were married??

Are you even capable of NOT continually vomtting out lies??
Good grief . . .


Don't change the subject. I already corrected myself to your alter ego mungo how I conflated one subject with this- do try to keep up to this uneducated rube won't you?

BTW:

Still waiting for you to show:
1. How I have born false witness to 1,000,000,000 Roman Cathoics
2. How I have lied about Romanism
3. The empirical evidence that defines a credible historical scholar.

Until then all your spewings are nothing more than verbal methane.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Read what it says not what you would like it to say.
A possible etymology of the name Dagan from the West Semitic/Ugaritic root dgn, which can be translated as 'grain', and the Hebrew dāgōn, an archaic word for 'grain'.

The Hebrew dagon (or dagan) is not possibly the word for grain but IS the word for grain.

Strong's Hebrew: 1715. דָּגָן (dagan) -- corn, grain (of cereals)

... Bible Strong's Hebrew 1715 1715. dagan Strong's Concordance dagan: corn, grain (of cereals) Original Word: דָּגָן Part of Speech: Noun Masculine Transliteration: dagan Phonetic Spelling: (daw-gawn') Definition: corn, grain ...

Strong's Hebrew: 1715. דָּגָן (dagan) -- corn, grain (of cereals)

The possibly is whether it came from the West Semitic/Ugaritic root dgn.


But dagan is not half man half fish. Onannes is the half man half fish
Oannes, in Mesopotamian mythology, an amphibious being who taught mankind wisdom. Oannes, as described by the Babylonian priest Berosus, had the form of a fish but with the head of a man under his fish’s head and under his fish’s tail the feet of a man. In the daytime he came up to the seashore of the Persian Gulf and instructed mankind in writing, the arts, and the sciences. Oannes was probably the emissary of Ea, god of the freshwater deep and of wisdom.
Oannes | Mesopotamian mythology
As you said:
Well I can't fix stupid as a radio counselor used to say.


Well I was quoting your expert credible historical scholars. and I linked to you all the drawings showing dagon as half man half fish. and His name means nothing as to what he was depicted. Nowhere in SCripture is he called the god of grain. HIs name may be derived for grain, but that does not make him the god fo grain, any more than the name Markk means he is a smudge made by a writing instrument.

do read more carefully. Read and learn:



Israel in Era of the Judges: Dagon - The Philistine Fish God - Associates for Biblical Research (biblearchaeology.org)

Dagon the Fish-God (Bible History Online) (bible-history.com)

Dagon - Wikipedia

Dagon - Chief God of the Philistines (learnreligions.com)

Who Was Dagon In The Bible? | Think About Such Things

R.cc4f9b1fa2dd907a27fed8f10af30ae3


Dagon - Ancient Levantine Fertility God | Mythology.net

God Dagon - God Pictures (mygodpictures.com)
 

Taken

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Wow! God is sovereign. Spirits are not.

God is soverign.
God is a Spirit without beginning.

John 4:
[24] God is a Spirit...

I'm not sure what sin you are associating with sexual reproduction.

God expressly revealed that He created and made KINDS of earthly things, and such KINDS of earthly things were created and made to "REPRODUCE" their own KINDS of things.
Angels are "created" spirits.
All indication from Scripture is that Angels are referenced as a "he".
Scripture gives no indication that Angels were created and made TO reproduce. (Not that they couldn't,) but nothing teaches that God sanctioned Angels TO reproduce.
When Angels reproduced with Human females, they were banned from the earths surface, to the earths center, hell.

For anyone to teach and preach God, Himself a Spirit;

BOL post 213, CAN and DID fertalize a womans egg ...

Is every indication of A SPIRIT impregnating a Human....
Which again, Scripture expressly teaches, KINDS of things are created and made TO reproduce their SAME KINDS of things.

SO what is An Offspring of an Angelic spirit and a human woman? Scriptures reveal An offspring of enormous size and strength. Commonly called a Giant.

Ha, Jesus was not tall that he would stand much much higher than the average Jewish man.

BOL in other posts has expressly called JESUS, "a human".
Some people define Jesus as a mathematical equasion....100% Human, 100% God...LOL
Sure, math, 200% is the whole. :rolleyes:

Scripture never teaches Jesus was procreated By God fertilizing the egg of a woman.
Jesus is the same, yesterday, today, and forever....
Jesus was not created.
Jesus was manifested.

The perversion of sexual reproduction is Mixing KINDS.


2 Samuel 7:16

Thank you.
 

Taken

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What Scripture says when Mary's egg was when it was fertilized? [/QUOTE

You would have to ask BOL, that teaching that God fertilized Mary's egg, is his teaching,
Definitely not my teaching.

I am at a loss at your entire line of thought. Keep on parsing synonyms Sue. You can do it!

I'm not accountable for what you do not understand.
 

Taken

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I think it depends on what is meant by fertilise.
You seem to have a very rigid view that it has to involve male "seed" and has to take place outside the womb.

Reproduction of human kinds of things, requires a human male Sperm to fertilize a females egg...
If that does not jive with your understanding,
Get a book with pictures of human reproduction, identifier names, little arrows, and explanation of what happens where.
 

Taken

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Biblical Mary:

Mother of God Lk 1:43

False teaching.
Luke 1:43 says no such thing.

Luke 1:
[43] And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Have you not heard?
God is eternal, everlasting, without beginning.
 

Mungo

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Well I was quoting your expert credible historical scholars. and I linked to you all the drawings showing dagon as half man half fish. and His name means nothing as to what he was depicted. Nowhere in SCripture is he called the god of grain. HIs name may be derived for grain, but that does not make him the god fo grain, any more than the name Markk means he is a smudge made by a writing instrument.

do read more carefully. Read and learn:

I think you have just debunked your own theory

Let's see what it says:
Most scholars argue that he was originally a vegetation, grain, and wheat, deity. The name is very similar to the Hebrew word for 'grain', dagan.
and
However, in iconography Dagon is often presented as a fish-god. This depiction has survived the centuries and is quite controversial. The reason it has survived is the similarity of the name to the Hebrew term dâg, meaning 'fish'. This connection was first popularized by Rashi, Rabbi Shlomo Yitzhaki (AD 1040-1105), author of an extensive commentary on the Tanakh. He imagined, based on this connection to the Hebrew term dâg, that Dagon was in the shape of a fish.
He imagined! So no actual evidence - just a figment of his imagination
and
In 1928, H. Schmökel argued that Dagon was never a 'fish-god', half-man and half-fish. However, once his cult became important to the sea-faring and maritime peoples, such as the Phoenicians and Philistines, the false connection to dâg (fish) had a powerful impact on Dagon's ongoing iconography.


Nice picture - of a merman. No feet, no fish headress, no fish scales down the back. So nothing like the Pope's mitre.
That blows apart your theory

Let's see what it says:

The association with a Hebrew word for "fish" (as in Hebrew: דג‎, Tib. /dɔːg/) in medieval exegesis has led to an incorrect interpretation of Dagan as a "fish-god."
and
The "fish" etymology, while late and incorrect, was accepted in 19th and early 20th century scholarship. This led to the association with the "merman" motif in Assyrian and Phoenician art (e.g. Julius Wellhausen, William Robertson Smith), and with the figure of the Babylonian Oannes (Ὡάaννης) mentioned by Berossus

Remember Berossus? He is the Babylonian priest whi decribed the man with the fish headress as Onannes
Oannes, in Mesopotamian mythology, an amphibious being who taught mankind wisdom. Oannes, as described by the Babylonian priest Berosus, had the form of a fish but with the head of a man under his fish’s head and under his fish’s tail the feet of a man. In the daytime he came up to the seashore of the Persian Gulf and instructed mankind in writing, the arts, and the sciences. Oannes was probably the emissary of Ea, god of the freshwater deep and of wisdom.
Oannes | Mesopotamian mythology

contd.
 
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Mungo

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Lets see what it says
The image of Dagon is a debated issue. The notion that Dagon was a god whose upper body was that of a man and the lower body that of a fish has been prevalent for decades. This idea may stem from a linguistic error in translating a derivative of the Semitic 'dag.' The word 'dagan' actually means 'corn' or 'cereal'. The name 'Dagon' itself dates back to at least 2500 BCE and is most probably a derivative of a word from a dialect of the Semitic tongue. This notion that Dagon was represented in iconography and statuary as part fish in Philistia proper is not supported entirely by coins found in Phoenician and Philistine cities. In fact, there is no evidence in the archaeological record to support the theory that Dagon was thusly represented.


Doesn't let me me what it says so I can't comment.



Another merman!! No feet, no fish headress, no fish scales down the back. So nothing like the Pope's mitre.

And it says
The first known appearance of Dagon is in the records of Mari, Syria, in ancient Mesopotamia from 2500 B.C. Later, he was mentioned in the inscriptions of Assyria and Babylonia as a protector and warrior god.
Not a fish god then



Both merman and fish head. - and beautifully coloured in. Which is it?
I noticed that none of these supposed images of dagan come with plaque attached saying "dagan the fish god".

It's all fanciful and made up.
 
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Mungo

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Reproduction of human kinds of things, requires a human male Sperm to fertilize a females egg...
If that does not jive with your understanding,
Get a book with pictures of human reproduction, identifier names, little arrows, and explanation of what happens where.
This was an event that was unique in all history
Do you think that God, who made us, was incapable acts as a fertilized egg?
 

Mungo

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Sure it does. And if you are a diligent student you could also learn WHY.

It only says“The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you". It doesn't go into an detail as to the exact mechanism of how God performed that miracle.