Bible alone!

[theefaith]

"untill after Jesus was born" = after that it was God's Will for Joseph and Mary to embrace the marriage bed (sexual union) and produce offspring = according to the Will of God for the man and his wife = see Genesis.

they only consented to marrige not sex lk 1:34

 

[theefaith]

YES, the Bible CLEARLY infers that Joseph and Mary had Ordained/from Heaven SEXUAL Union with each other.

Whenever the scripture says "the man knew his wife" = SEXUAL EMBRACE / NAKED in the Marriage Bed the way God first made Adam and Eve = Naked and Unafraid

I agree but it does not say that

it says they did not have sex
And lk 1:43 says no sex ever
And the apostolic tradition founded by Christ never taught this error

even Luther Calvin etc are opposed to you’re fundamentalism

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).

 

[David in NJ]

they only consented to marrige not sex lk 1:34

As usual, RCC and it's members corrupting the TRUTH.

 

[David in NJ]

And even paul warns the married ones , to defraud ye not one another , UNLESS ye agree and arefasting etc .
THEN come back together again , lest satan tempt you . yeah .

AMEN

 

[theefaith]

Cause she was a virgin . Everyone here agrees with that . We know she was a virgin
and that joseph KNEW HER NOT , TILL AFTER , TILL AFTER the child was born .
THEN over the years we see JESUS had many brothers and sisters . Mary and joseph
had children ,AFTER the birth of CHRIST . No sex was done before that birth . SHE was a virgin
and joseph never even KNEW HER , NOT TILL AFTER the CHILD was born .
And have fun showing me in scripture where it ever teaches that those brethren of JESUS
were not the children of mary and joseph . Exactly . You are being told they were not by THE CC .
YET even in scripture it says HE KNEW her NOT TILL AFTER
IF he had never known her , it would have said , AND HE NEVER KNEW HER , FOR MARY REMAINED A VIRGIN for ever .
Yall are teaching things and adding stuff in . Just like you do with prayers to mary , to saints , to angels
and popes having men kissing rings and being called MOST HOLY FATHER and many other things you all do .
SUch as even making large images and kneeling before them when you pray .
The list goes on and on with that church . SO come out of her my friend . I come not as an enemy ,
but rather out of great love for your soul i do warn you .

no she never had sex Lk 1:34 proves that

they are not the children of Mary

Brothers and sisters of Jesus?

They are not the children of Mary!

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They had 4 mother’s, These may be brothers but they are simply not the children of One mother and the brothers of Jesus are not the children of Mary!

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

Is Mary the mother of James?
If you mean the Blessed Virgin Mary then no. Her sister-in-law, Mary of Clopas, was the wife of Alphaeus (St. Joseph's brother), and mother of Simon, Joseph, and the apostles Judas Thaddeus, and James (the Less, brother of the Lord): Jesus' cousins.

The "sisters" of Jesus refer to women disciples

Salome, or Mary Salome, was the wife of Zebedee, and mother of apostles John (the beloved), and James (the greater).


Regarding Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, two of the four "brethren" are James and Judas of Alphaeus (cf. Mat. 10:2-3, Lk. 6:15-16, Act. 1:13). The third, Joseph, is identified in Mk. 15:40 as the brother of James of Alphaeus. The fourth, Simon, is identified in Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 as the brother of Joseph, James, and Judas of Alphaeus. Therefore, all four are were the sons of Alphaeus, not St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin Mary.

When Jesus was twelve they went up to Jerusalem, the holy family, Joseph, Mary, and Jesus. Where are the brothers and sisters?

Jesus on the cross gives His mother to John, why? Why not James or a brother? Perhaps the law of Moses requires a mother to be given to the next oldest son? Because he was an only Son!
Only begotten of the Father, only begotten of the Mother.

Only God can be born of a Virgin-mother!


First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!

 

[David in NJ]

Cause she was a virgin . Everyone here agrees with that . We know she was a virgin
and that joseph KNEW HER NOT , TILL AFTER , TILL AFTER the child was born .
THEN over the years we see JESUS had many brothers and sisters . Mary and joseph
had children ,AFTER the birth of CHRIST . No sex was done before that birth . SHE was a virgin
and joseph never even KNEW HER , NOT TILL AFTER the CHILD was born .
And have fun showing me in scripture where it ever teaches that those brethren of JESUS
were not the children of mary and joseph . Exactly . You are being told they were not by THE CC .
YET even in scripture it says HE KNEW her NOT TILL AFTER
IF he had never known her , it would have said , AND HE NEVER KNEW HER , FOR MARY REMAINED A VIRGIN for ever .
Yall are teaching things and adding stuff in . Just like you do with prayers to mary , to saints , to angels
and popes having men kissing rings and being called MOST HOLY FATHER and many other things you all do .
SUch as even making large images and kneeling before them when you pray .
The list goes on and on with that church . SO come out of her my friend . I come not as an enemy ,
but rather out of great love for your soul i do warn you .

AMEN

 

[theefaith]

and popes having men kissing rings and being called MOST HOLY FATHER

Is Jesus Christ the king?

do we owe him obedience?

Father Isa 22:21-22 Matt 16:18-19

 

[David in NJ]

and popes having men kissing rings and being called MOST HOLY FATHER

Is Jesus Christ the king?

do we owe him obedience?

Father Isa 22:21-22 Matt 16:18-19

Equating men who are in deep dark sin (RCC Popes/Bishops/Priests) to CHRIST - shame on you.

the RCC pope(s) do not deserve to kiss the bottom of the LORD Jesus Christ's feet.

 

[theefaith]

AMEN

a vow of perpetual virginity see below

Ark of the new covenant!
The dwelling place of God!
God dwelt in Mary’s womb for 9 months, remember the ark was incorruptible wood covered with pure gold signifying Mary’s immaculate purity!
read exodus or any place in the Old Testament where something came into contact with God or was consecrated to the service of God it had to be pure and Holy!
In the ark was the word of God!
In Mary the new ark is the living Word!
In the ark was the mana!
In Mary was the bread come down from heaven! Jn 6
Bethlehem means house to of bread!

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, (Isa 7:14) and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Jn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Holy mother of God!

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Biblical principle:
Anything Consecrated to God must be pure and used only for the purpose of serving God!

See exodus: the ark of the covenant, everything used in the temple etc.

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

So Joseph cannot enter in where the Holy Spirit has entered!

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)

Isa 66:9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.

Mary and her virginity are Consecrated to God in immaculate purity, the pure gold of divine love!

Mary was the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone!


Can a man use the ark of the covenant for a common dinner table?

Then Joseph can in no any way use Mary for a common wife!

No mere man may enter where God conceived! Ez 44:2

Mary would not consent to God’s will and to receive the exalted dignity of the mother of God if it means violating her vow of perpetual virginity then why simply consent relations with Joseph!

That’s impossible!

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

(This verse imply’s that Mary is consecrated to God alone! and has taken a vow of perpetual virginity! She was s willing to refuse even the exalted dignity of mother of God, the mother of our savior, and mother of all Christians if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

She consented to our salvation when she realized it would not violate her vow of perpetual virginity!

A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!

 

[theefaith]

AMEN

a consecrated virgin must be pure immaculate and permanent

All for God!

Mary cos of Her being created by God immaculate has always enjoyed the beatific vision of God in heaven, Matt 5:8she loved God perfectly and that caused Her to make a sacrifice of her entire being and life to God Forever!
Lk 1:46

 

[David in NJ]

a vow of perpetual virginity see below

Ark of the new covenant!
The dwelling place of God!
God dwelt in Mary’s womb for 9 months, remember the ark was incorruptible wood covered with pure gold signifying Mary’s immaculate purity!
read exodus or any place in the Old Testament where something came into contact with God or was consecrated to the service of God it had to be pure and Holy!
In the ark was the word of God!
In Mary the new ark is the living Word!
In the ark was the mana!
In Mary was the bread come down from heaven! Jn 6
Bethlehem means house to of bread!

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, (Isa 7:14) and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Jn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Holy mother of God!

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Biblical principle:
Anything Consecrated to God must be pure and used only for the purpose of serving God!

See exodus: the ark of the covenant, everything used in the temple etc.

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

So Joseph cannot enter in where the Holy Spirit has entered!

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)

Isa 66:9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.

Mary and her virginity are Consecrated to God in immaculate purity, the pure gold of divine love!

Mary was the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone!


Can a man use the ark of the covenant for a common dinner table?

Then Joseph can in no any way use Mary for a common wife!

No mere man may enter where God conceived! Ez 44:2

Mary would not consent to God’s will and to receive the exalted dignity of the mother of God if it means violating her vow of perpetual virginity then why simply consent relations with Joseph!

That’s impossible!

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

(This verse imply’s that Mary is consecrated to God alone! and has taken a vow of perpetual virginity! She was s willing to refuse even the exalted dignity of mother of God, the mother of our savior, and mother of all Christians if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

She consented to our salvation when she realized it would not violate her vow of perpetual virginity!

A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!

Blinded by religion and vile sinful hearts, the RCC molested, tortured and murdered millions of God's People, His Elect = us who believe.

They still continue in some of these practices today - but they have to keep it hidden.

 

[David in NJ]

a consecrated virgin must be pure immaculate and permanent

All for God!

Mary cos of Her being created by God immaculate has always enjoyed the beatific vision of God in heaven, Matt 5:8she loved God perfectly and that caused Her to make a sacrifice of her entire being and life to God Forever!
Lk 1:46

Pagan religions do believe this.

 

[theefaith]

Equating men who are in deep dark sin (RCC Popes/Bishops/Priests) to CHRIST - shame on you.

the RCC pope(s) do not deserve to kiss the bottom of the LORD Jesus Christ's feet.

I did not say that you did!

I asked a question

do we owe obedience to Christ the king?

 

[theefaith]

Pagan religions do believe this.

So it must be false in regards Mary?

Cos there was a false queen of heaven it’s makes it impossible for there to be a true queen of heaven and earth

or a fall messiah precludes the possibility of a true messiah?

or a false prophet makes true prophets impossible???????

 

[David in NJ]

So it must be false in regards Mary?

Cos there was a false queen of heaven it’s makes it impossible for there to be a true queen of heaven and earth

or a fall messiah precludes the possibility of a true messiah?

or a false prophet makes true prophets impossible???????

Prophets are of God
Messiah = there is only ONE
Queen of Heaven = 100% PAGAN = you will not find one in HEAVEN = Mary is no longer female

 

[Truther]

Joseph and Mary were a marriage made in Heaven = Matthew 1:

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. 20But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife,
and did not know her untill she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name Jesus.

Joseph knew Mary like we know our wives...

 

[Truther]

This is in VIOLATION of Proverbs 30: 1-6 and your very own Post #1344

I am consistent with what I am saying.

The status quo has you thinking inside the presupposition box.

 

[Truther]

not the mother of the divinity
But mother of God. Cos Christ is God

That is double speak.

He is not divinity but he is?

 

[Truther]

that say they did not have sex to that point, it does not say they did have sex after that or ever
But Lk 1:34 say she never had sex and the apostolic tradition by the authority of Christ says never

No, it says Joseph did not have sex TILL...

Like he waited TILL...

 

[Truther]

you accuse some of skipping acts 2:38 now you are a skipper!

you skipped Matt 17:1-5???

How's that?