I am not in the flesh.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit,
Are You Dead to Self?
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8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit,
This is a spiritualization of reality. Very very few born again believers are going to go to God after their sample of grace and get the full measure. Many are called, few are chosen. People can't choose themselves, God does the choosing. How do we know we have been chosen? When we walk in the power of Christ's resurrection.
That is the very first step in the race of faith. Paul sought to WIN CHRIST...after His first encounter with the Lord. As he stated in Romans 7, "sin revived and I died". So then he was no longer walking in the intimacy of the full measure of grace. He had fallen from his initial grace...the sample. Now he had to seek God in repentance for a new filling of the Spirit.
That's the real Christian life...not assuming, presuming, naming and claiming as some do. Grace is the power to walk with God above sin...in holiness. It is entered into by faith...not religious beliefs. God decides who will be translated into the kingdom realm...not religious enthusiasts.
No. To walk in eternal life is based on His resurrection power. WE need to go to the cross for that...not Jesus again.
False, It is by faith. We can turn from faith when we are tempted away from the miraculous walk in Christ...like Peter who tried to walk by faith on the water...and succeeded for a short time before sinking into the water. Why did he sink? A lack of good works? No A lack of religious assumptions? No. A lack of faith. Through faith we do the impossible....otherwise it isn't faith.
Religious certainty alert. Ask the ones who say Lord Lord, or the Laodiceans, or the ones who are cut off by the severity of God. Ask them how the gift never ends. Ask yourself.
...is for those who surrender their lives and approach God by faith AFTER having been born of the Spirit. The righteousness of an eternal life in Christ. (a KIND of life)
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You are living in a fantasy world @Peterlag
Romans 7:18-24: Paul expresses his internal struggle with sin, acknowledging that even though he delights in God's law inwardly, there is another law at work within him, waging war against the law of his mind and making him a prisoner of the law of sin at work within his members.
Romans 8:12-13: Paul addresses believers, urging them to live by the Spirit and not by the flesh. He indicates that living according to the flesh leads to death, but putting to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit leads to life, suggesting an ongoing process rather than an immediate removal of the old nature.
Galatians 5:16-17: This passage highlights the conflict between the Spirit and the flesh, stating that the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, showing that this internal battle continues in the believer’s life.
Ephesians 4:22-24: Believers are instructed to put off their old self, which belongs to their former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed in the spirit of their minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness, implying an ongoing process of renewal.
Colossians 3:9-10: Paul instructs believers not to lie to one another, seeing that they have put off the old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator, indicating a continuous renewal.
Philippians 3:12-14: Paul admits that he has not already attained the goal of perfection but presses on to make it his own, forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, suggesting an ongoing journey rather than a completed state.
1 Corinthians 9:27: Paul describes his personal discipline, saying he disciplines his body and keeps it under control, lest after preaching to others he himself should be disqualified, implying the necessity of ongoing self-control and vigilance.
1 Peter 2:11: Peter urges believers to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against the soul, indicating that these passions are still present and active, requiring continuous effort to resist them.
James 1:14-15: James explains that each person is tempted when they are lured and enticed by their own desire. Desire, when it has conceived, gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is fully grown, brings forth death, showing that the presence of sinful desires persists and can lead to sin if not managed.
Hebrews 12:1-2: Believers are encouraged to lay aside every weight and the sin which clings so closely and to run with endurance the race set before them, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of their faith, indicating the necessity of ongoing effort to overcome sin.
These references collectively suggest that the old nature is not completely removed upon conversion; rather, believers are engaged in an ongoing process of sanctification where they must continually put to death the deeds of the body and live by the Spirit.
Although we have been born again in the spirit, we still live in this fleshly body, which is still bound and subject to sinful desires (Rom_7:14).
Therefore, we sometimes yield to the flesh and sin, although in our hearts we know that it is wrong.
This can often confuse us in our walk with the Lord (Rom_7:15). But these sins serve to demonstrate that the Word of God is holy and pure, while our transgressions are sinful (Rom_7:16).
For we soon realize that it is not our hearts that are desiring sinful acts, but it is a result of yielding to our fleshly nature that causes us to sin (Rom_7:17-18).
In this struggle to do right, we as Christians come face to face with the reality that our flesh is at war with our spirits (Rom_7:19-21). We see that the inward man, our spirit, always desires the ways of God (Rom_7:22), but the outward body of flesh always desires the things of this world (Rom_7:23). This is discussed further in Gal_5:16-18.
Our conscience condemns us for our actions of yielding to the flesh (Rom_2:15) and we cry out for a way to overcome this struggle (Rom_7:24). Thank God that Jesus sent the Holy Spirit into our hearts to lead us through this dilemma. We now know that with our minds, we can choose to yield to the flesh or to the spirit (Rom_7:25). Thus, when we choose to walk in the spirit, our conscience no longer condemns us of sin (Rom_8:1).
Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom_7:7 — Comments - Under the Law the Jew had to become conscience of each and every sin, so that he prepared the proper sacrifices, since each sin required a specific sacrifice. This meant that the Jews were constantly reminded of their sins. The Law even made provision on the day of Atonement for dealing with any sins that were overlooked during the course of the year. The Law made people recognize their sinful nature so that they would look to God for redemption, since no one was able to keep the Law perfectly (Gal_3:24).
Gal_3:24, “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.”
Rom_7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom_7:8 — “wrought in me all manner of concupiscence” – Word Study on “concupiscence” – Strong says the Greek word “concupiscence” (ἐπιθυμία) (G1939) means, “a longing.” Webster says the English word “concupiscence” means, “Sexual lust; morbid carnal passion.”
Comments – Covetousness can be directed in many directions. It can penetrate every area of our lives. Within the context of the epistle of Romans, it refers to the continual cravings of the flesh.
Rom_7:8 — “For without the law sin was dead” – Comments – Before the time of the giving of the Law, we observe in the book of Genesis that God did not judge individual sins of men, although He did bring judgment upon mankind as a group when they reached certain levels of sin.
Scripture References - Note:
Joh_15:22-24, “If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. He that hateth me hateth my Father also. If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.”
Rom_4:15, “Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.”
1Co_15:56, “The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.”
Rom_7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom_7:22 — Comments - The phrase “the inward man” seems to show that Paul is speaking here as a born-again believer, a new creation (Eph_3:16, 2Co_4:16).
J.
Your statement contains several inaccuracies regarding the Apostle Paul's experience and teachings.
Corrected Statement with Morphological and Syntactical Analysis:
The journey of faith is indeed a race, but it is crucial to accurately understand Paul’s perspective and experiences. Paul did not seek to "win Christ" and did not "fall from his initial chen" after his first encounter with the Lord in the sense of regaining something lost; rather, he continuously sought deeper fellowship and conformity to Christ. As Paul states in Philippians 3:8-14:
Philippians 3:8-14 Analysis:
Philippians 3:8: ἀλλὰ μὲν οὖν καὶ ἡγοῦμαι πάντα ζημίαν εἶναι διὰ τὸ ὑπερέχον τῆς γνώσεως Χριστοῦ Ἰησοῦ τοῦ Κυρίου μου, δι’ ὃν τὰ πάντα ἐζημιώθην, καὶ ἡγοῦμαι σκύβαλα, ἵνα Χριστὸν κερδήσω
ἡγοῦμαι (hegeomai): Present middle/passive indicative, “I consider.” Indicates an ongoing mindset.
κερδήσω (kerdēsō): Aorist active subjunctive, “I may gain.” This shows a purposeful and ongoing pursuit.
Philippians 3:12-14: οὐχ ὅτι ἤδη ἔλαβον ἢ ἤδη τετελείωμαι, διώκω δὲ εἰ καὶ καταλάβω, ἐφ’ ᾧ καὶ κατελήμφθην ὑπὸ Χριστοῦ Ἰησοῦ. ἀδελφοί, ἐγὼ ἐμαυτὸν οὐ λογίζομαι κατειληφέναι· ἓν δέ, τὰ μὲν ὀπίσω ἐπιλανθανόμενος τοῖς δὲ ἔμπροσθεν ἐπεκτεινόμενος, κατὰ σκοπὸν διώκω εἰς τὸ βραβεῖον τῆς ἄνω κλήσεως τοῦ Θεοῦ ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ.
διώκω (diōkō): Present active indicative, “I press on.” Indicates continuous action.
καταλάβω (katalabō): Aorist active subjunctive, “I may lay hold of.” Again suggests an active pursuit.
ἐπεκτεινόμενος (epekteinomenos): Present middle/passive participle, “stretching forward.” Implies ongoing effort.
In Romans 7, Paul describes the struggle between the flesh and the spirit:
Romans 7:15 Analysis:
Romans 7:15: Ὃ γὰρ κατεργάζομαι οὐ γινώσκω· οὐ γὰρ ὃ θέλω τοῦτο πράσσω, ἀλλ’ ὃ μισῶ τοῦτο ποιῶ.
κατεργάζομαι (katergazomai): Present middle indicative, “I do.” Reflects ongoing action.
θέλω (thelō): Present active indicative, “I want.” Indicates a continuous desire.
πράσσω (prassō): Present active indicative, “I do.” Shows habitual action.
ποιῶ (poiō): Present active indicative, “I practice.” Continual conduct.
Paul's exclamation in Romans 7:24-25 indicates a recognition of the need for continual reliance on Christ:
Romans 7:24-25 Analysis:
Romans 7:24: Ταλαίπωρος ἐγὼ ἄνθρωπος· τίς με ῥύσεται ἐκ τοῦ σώματος τοῦ θανάτου τούτου;
ῥύσεται (rhusetai): Future middle indicative, “will deliver.” Implies a future hope.
Romans 7:25: χάρις δὲ τῷ Θεῷ διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ τοῦ Κυρίου ἡμῶν. ἄρα οὖν αὐτὸς ἐγὼ τῷ μὲν νοῒ δουλεύω νόμῳ Θεοῦ, τῇ δὲ σαρκὶ νόμῳ ἁμαρτίας.
δουλεύω (douleuō): Present active indicative, “I serve.” Continuous action.
In Galatians 5:16-18, Paul emphasizes the ongoing struggle between the flesh and the Spirit:
Galatians 5:16-18 Analysis:
Galatians 5:16: Λέγω δέ, Πνεύματι περιπατεῖτε καὶ ἐπιθυμίαν σαρκὸς οὐ μὴ τελέσητε.
περιπατεῖτε (peripateite): Present active imperative, “walk.” Continuous command.
τελέσητε (telēsēte): Aorist active subjunctive, “you will not gratify.” Indicates the result of continuous walking by the Spirit.
Hence--
Paul's teachings in Philippians 3, Romans 7, and Galatians 5 collectively emphasize a continuous, active pursuit of spiritual growth and reliance on Christ, rather than a one-time event of receiving grace.
The morphologies and syntaxes of key verbs in these passages highlight ongoing action and continuous effort. The believer’s journey is marked by persistent growth and deepening intimacy with Christ, relying on His grace throughout, rather than implying a fall from initial grace or a need for a renewed filling of the Spirit.
You are in error here @Episkopos
J.
This is easy and straightforward if you allow Paul to speak about his experience with winning Christ.
All you have to do is explain what Paul means when he says in Romans 7 ..."sin revived and I died" And this AFTER he was free from the law...after he was crucified with Christ in an initial grace.
Likewise there is a continuation of an active pursuit in reliance on Christ....that many will assume is unto holiness...but is not. Nobody ACHIEVES holiness by ardent pursuit. Many will be "always learning" but never coming to the knowledge of the truth. Having a form of godliness but denying the power (the translation into the kingdom walk) thereof.
I can't convince people that God goes beyond a human reasoning based on bible study. All I can do is testify to it...and pray that at least a few will understand, turn to God and be healed.
I agree that it can be...if one doesn't recognize the difference between what has been imputed to us and what one is actually walking in. But faith is a real thing....the SUBSTANCE of things HOPED for......the EVIDENCE of things NOT yet SEEN. Meantime we are endeavouring and seeking with God's help to bring our lives in increasing measure to line up with the plumbline/cornerstone....which is what has been imputed to us.
If it hadn't been imputed we would not have received the spirit of adoption and become heirs of salvation. See, that is what "adoption" implies.....imputed sonship even if not quite actualized yet....being "counted/reckoned" as sons and heirs of His righteousness and all that our heavenly Father has. All of creation still waits for the sons of God to be "revealed"....actualized, as I think of it. And adoption is as strong a bond in the sight of God as being natural sons.....it is a covenant, the new covenant....much like betrothal was as strong and binding in ancient Hebrew culture as the coming marriage.
Again-you seem to miss the thought of our brother Paul @Episkopos as is penned down in Scriptures-Perfect Tense.
To understand what Paul means when he says in Romans 7:9 "...sin revived and I died," and how this relates to his experience of being free from the law and being crucified with Christ, we need to delve into the context of Romans 7 and the broader theological implications Paul is presenting. Let’s look at the verse within its context and analyze the Greek morphology and syntax.
Romans 7:7-13 (Lexham English Bible):
7 What then shall we say? Is the law sin? May it never be! But I would not have known sin except through the law, for I would not have known covetousness if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin is dead. 9 And I was alive once, apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life 10 and I died. And this commandment which was to result in life, was found with reference to death for me. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. 13 Therefore, did what is good become death to me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be recognized as sin, producing death through what is good for me, in order that sin might become sinful to an extraordinary degree through the commandment.
Analysis and Explanation:
Understanding "Sin Revived and I Died" in Romans 7:9:
ἔζησά ποτε χωρὶς νόμου (ezēsa pote chōris nomou): "I was alive once apart from the law." Paul is reflecting on a time before the law's commandment brought awareness of sin to him.
ἔζησα (ezēsa): Aorist active indicative of ζάω (zaō), meaning "I lived." Indicates a completed past action.
χωρὶς (chōris): Preposition meaning "apart from."
νόμου (nomou): Genitive singular of νόμος (nomos), meaning "law."
ἐλθούσης δὲ τῆς ἐντολῆς (elthousēs de tēs entolēs): "But when the commandment came."
ἐλθούσης (elthousēs): Aorist active participle of ἔρχομαι (erchomai), meaning "coming."
ἐντολῆς (entolēs): Genitive singular of ἐντολή (entolē), meaning "commandment."
ἡ ἁμαρτία ἀνέζησεν (hē hamartia anezēsen): "Sin revived."
ἁμαρτία (hamartia): Nominative singular, meaning "sin."
ἀνέζησεν (anezēsen): Aorist active indicative of ἀναζάω (anazaō), meaning "came to life again" or "revived."
καὶ ἐγὼ ἀπέθανον (kai egō apethanon): "And I died."
ἀπέθανον (apethanon): Aorist active indicative of ἀποθνῄσκω (apothnēskō), meaning "I died." Indicates a completed past action.
Theological Implications and Context:
Initial State of Paul: Paul describes an initial state where he was "alive" apart from the law, meaning he was not fully aware of the depth of his sinfulness because the law had not yet made it clear to him.
Role of the Law: When the commandment came, it brought a heightened awareness of sin. The law, holy and good in itself, acted as a mirror, revealing the sinfulness within Paul (Romans 7:7-12).
Revival of Sin: The phrase "sin revived" (ἡ ἁμαρτία ἀνέζησεν) indicates that the awareness of the commandment stirred up the sinful nature. Sin, which was dormant or "dead" without the law, became active and powerful once the law made it clear.
Paul's Death: "I died" (ἐγὼ ἀπέθανον) refers to Paul’s realization of spiritual death. The commandment exposed his sinfulness, leading to an awareness of spiritual death because the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23).
Life Through Crucifixion with Christ: In Romans 6:6, Paul says, "knowing this, that our old man was crucified with him, that the body of sin might be done away with, so that we should no longer be slaves to sin." This indicates that through identification with Christ’s death, believers are freed from the power of sin and the law. However, the awareness of sin through the law brings about the realization of the need for this crucifixion.
Hence--
Paul's statement in Romans 7:9, "sin revived and I died," highlights the function of the law in revealing sin. Before the law’s commandment was understood, Paul felt "alive" in a superficial sense, not recognizing the depth of his sinfulness. When the commandment came, it brought sin to life, making Paul acutely aware of his spiritual death. This awareness underscores the necessity of being crucified with Christ (Romans 6:6) and relying on the grace of God for true spiritual life, as detailed in Romans 8:1-4, which speaks of the life in the Spirit that believers are called to live, free from the condemnation of the law.
J.
Corrected Statement:
Likewise, there is a continuation of an active pursuit in reliance on Christ, which is indeed essential for spiritual growth. However, it is crucial to understand that holiness is not achieved by human effort alone. Holiness is a result of God's grace working within us through the Holy Spirit.
The pursuit of holiness involves a transformation that comes from God, not merely from human striving. As 2 Timothy 3:7 warns, "always learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth," highlights the danger of superficial religious activity without true spiritual transformation.
Paul also speaks in 2 Timothy 3:5 of those "having a form of godliness but denying its power." The true power of godliness comes from being transformed by the Holy Spirit and living in the reality of God's kingdom.
Scriptural Support and Analysis:
Role of Grace and the Holy Spirit in Holiness:
Hebrews 12:14 (Lexham English Bible): "Pursue peace with everyone, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord."
διώκετε (diōkete): Present active imperative, “pursue.” Indicates continuous, active effort.
ἁγιασμός (hagiasmos): Noun meaning "holiness" or "sanctification," which is a state resulting from divine action.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 (Lexham English Bible): "Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."
ἁγιάσαι (hagiasai): Aorist active subjunctive, “sanctify.” Indicates a wish for complete sanctification.
ὁλόκληρον (holoklēron): Adjective meaning "complete" or "whole," indicating the thoroughness of God's sanctifying work.
Danger of Superficial Religious Activity:
2 Timothy 3:5 (Lexham English Bible): "Maintaining a form of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid these people."
ἔχοντες (echontes): Present active participle, “having.” Indicates ongoing possession.
δύναμιν (dynamin): Noun meaning "power." Refers to the transformative power of godliness.
ἠρνημένοι (ērnēmenoi): Perfect middle participle, “denying.” Indicates a completed action with ongoing effect.
2 Timothy 3:7 (Lexham English Bible): "Always learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth."
μανθάνοντα (manthanonta): Present active participle, “learning.” Indicates continuous action.
ἐπὶ (epi) with γνῶσιν (gnōsin): Accusative of relationship, “knowledge.” Refers to experiential knowledge, not just intellectual understanding.
Transformation through the Holy Spirit:
Titus 3:5-6 (Lexham English Bible): "He saved us, not by works of righteousness that we have done, but on the basis of his mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us in full measure through Jesus Christ our Savior."
ἔσωσεν (esōsen): Aorist active indicative, “saved.” Indicates a completed action.
παλινγενεσίας (palingenesias): Genitive singular, “regeneration.” Refers to the new birth.
ἀνακαινώσεως (anakainōseōs): Genitive singular, “renewal.” Indicates a continuous process of being made new.
Conclusion:
The pursuit of holiness involves a continuous reliance on Christ and the transformative work of the Holy Spirit, not merely human effort. Holiness is a result of God's grace and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Superficial religious activity or mere intellectual learning without true spiritual transformation is insufficient. True godliness involves embracing the power of the Holy Spirit and living out the realities of God's kingdom. As believers, we must depend on God's grace and the Spirit's work within us to achieve genuine holiness.
J.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Again, you've proven that you have no understanding of what it means to be born again.
Faith is not a race.
Faith, regarding Christianity is "TRUST" In Christ.
"Faith (trust in Christ) is counted by God as (Christ's) Righteous"... (Imputed Righteousness of Christ)
Christian "life" would be "life In Christ".. born again.
You can't do that, you have to become that...
Jesus said...."You must be born again".... and that is not water baptism.
Jesus said "apart from me you can do nothing"
He never said, apart from going to the Cross after you are born again... you can do nothing".
See, the Cross is where God and man become "One with God".. so, you dont have to keep going back once that has happened..
"Born again".
You can do a lot of things, with your MIND, but once the believer is born again.. then that is THE "birth in the Spirit" and that is finished.
How you think later, or how you feel later, is irrelevant, as God has birthed the believer as "born again" and you can't end a BIRTH.
Just ask your mother...
thats not it.
Let me show you.
SALVATION is 3 Gifts,
"The Gift of Salvation"
"The Gift of Righteousness"
"The Gift of Eternal life".
Jesus said....>>""ALL (not just the elect) but = ALL who believe in me... I give unto them (the believer) = ETERNAL LIFE and they shall never go to Hell (Perish)".
Behold
Well-Known Member
'
Here, in your verse, Paul is talking about religious people who talk about holiness and righteousness in the same way that Paul refers to the Jewish issue.
"Being Ignorant of God's Righteousness, they go about to establish their own Righteousness".
For example... the person who says that water baptism (baptismal regeneration) is required for Salvation... is one of those "ignorant of God's righteousness"..., as they are teaching that something that is not God or Holy Spirit, is a "must have".. part of the new birth.
Or, someone like Calvin, .. this heretic... has redefined The Cross as His "only for some", which is a complete DENIAL of the Grace of God and a Total rejection of The Cross of Christ.
So, in Both cases, these heretics are replacing, or "denying the Power" that is The Grace of God, by subtly and falsely redefining HOW God saves and redeems, and supplies Salvation.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Do you have your flesh or do you believe you disposed of it? Do you know what flesh is? It's not just your body, it is your soul, your old self - that btw we are to die daily to ( 1 Cor. 15:31). And so before we are given a new spirit, we are body, soul and a non- functioning spirit.
What you are claiming is that you are pleasing to God all the time ... oh and that you do not posses flesh anymore ( where sin dwells). And this must be also witnessed and experienced by your family and friends who really know you, who look at you, as being Christ-like as there ever was a person, full of love, always putting everyone else first. Oh the joy they reap when they are in your presense! Truly a man who reflects the fruit of the Spirit all the time.
I doubt it. We do not get that from you - none of us do and likely nobody that knows you does either. But to be fair, I never met anyone who was totally Christ-like/ perfect.
People can pretend to be what they want to be online, a Mother Teresa, a Billy Graham ... But by their fruit and words, we see right through them.
It's the typical Non-Trinitarian theology that you bought into. Those who hold this view (2-3% of Christianity), IMO, suffer from the lack of discernment. If you do not believe Jesus is God, the LOGOS, the Creator and that the Holy Spirit is a person, why would Jesus baptize you with the Holy Spirit and why would the Holy Spirit want to live in someone who does not worship Jesus as God Almighty? Furthermore how could Jesus, if He wasn't God, baptize you with the Spirit of God, Who would then live in you and have a relationship with you and help you discern scripture?
I suppose I am breaking the forum rules again. I don't want to start a debate on this subject, nor receive a response from you. I just want you to think about it.
No need to continue. God Bless.
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Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
I used to think that it was all God behind us being holy. But then why would He command us to be holy?
I think to be holy is to be separate from sin, God is and we are to be, making an effort with His help. Not to say we earn salvation, but once He makes this "new creature", we are spiritually sanctified by being washed with the blood of Christ, then we need to begin behaving that way. And being born again _ as infants _ we grow and learn the new program that we are to cooperate with. We are required to be responsible.
I have often claimed before, "We can't make ourselves holy, only God can"; but I have a revised my thinking. In Lev. 19-20, God commanded the Israelites to be holy.
1 Peter 1:15-16 – But as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”
So it is regarding our conduct, to separate ourselves from sin and love God and one another. Sure without Him we could do nothing, but our cooperation in the process of His sanctification makes it move along. We see mature Christians who have spiritually grown but others who don't seem to be able to get with the program, slower and therefore producing less fruit.
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Well said @Ronald David Bruno-our Lord of the Imperatives
Your reflection on the command to be holy aligns with the biblical teaching that holiness involves both divine empowerment and human response. Throughout Scripture, we see God calling His people to holiness, not as a mere external requirement, but as a reflection of His own character and nature.
God's Role in Holiness:
Scripture affirms that God is the source and standard of holiness (Leviticus 19:2). He is inherently holy, and His nature calls us to reflect that holiness in our lives (1 Peter 1:15-16). It is through His grace and power that we are sanctified and made holy (1 Thessalonians 5:23).
Human Cooperation:
While God initiates and empowers our sanctification, we are called to actively participate in the process (Philippians 2:12-13).
This involves making choices to turn away from sin and pursue righteousness (Romans 6:12-14). As believers, we are called to live differently from the world, set apart for God's purposes (Romans 12:2).
Growing in Holiness:
Just as infants grow and mature, so too do believers in their journey of holiness (1 Peter 2:2). While some may progress more rapidly than others, the key is continued growth and transformation through the power of the Holy Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:18).
Mature Christians demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit in their lives (Galatians 5:22-23), while those who struggle may need encouragement and support from the body of Christ (Galatians 6:1-2).
In summary, holiness involves a partnership between God's grace and our obedience. While God is the primary agent of sanctification, we are called to respond in faith and obedience, allowing His transformative work to produce fruit in our lives. As we cooperate with God's sanctifying work, we grow in maturity and reflect His holiness more fully.
By grounding the response in Scripture, we affirm both God's sovereignty in sanctification and our responsibility to actively pursue holiness in our conduct and character.
Shalom to you and family brother
Johann.
We can't think God needs us to help Him to make us achieve holiness. Unless you are speaking of the law of Moses whereby we do things outwardly to fulfill the temporal temple law of holiness...just being different from the world...like not eating pork, or being circumcised, wearing certain clothes, sabbath "keeping" etc...
We can't achieve holiness. Holiness... true holiness as God is holy...is about location. To be where He is. When we abide in Christ we partake of HIS holiness. We are never holy of ourselves. We don't attain to holiness. In Christ our life is hid IN GOD... God is holy. When we walk with God we are surrounded by His holy covering...by the righteousness of God.
Righteousness is about what we DO. We can learn righteousness. Not holiness.
Does the bible say...take your shoes off your feet because the ground you are standing on (location) is righteous???
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I have found you wanting and in error on 3 accounts today brother-three strikes, you're out.
J.
The Imperatives says otherwise-something you need to come to terms with. Then there's the Indicatives and Genitives-Aorist's and Middle Voice.
You are not going to dictate to me how I should read my Bible, worship my Lord Jesus Christ IN the Holy Spirit brother-today's interaction with you was kinda "mystical" a Drash or Remez, or whatever you might want to coin it, certainly not the God of the Scriptures.
No need to be a "lone ranger"
J.
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