Are only 144,000 saved? (Rev 14:1)

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amigo de christo

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case in point . they justify their love of evil instead of repenting of it .
Hey mathew , I USED TO LOVE THAT OL SONG . I sure did . Listened to it a lot way back in the day .
BUT something amazing happened when GOD actually drew me to saving faith in Christ .
I no longer seemed to love evil , and had a new heart for the things that honored GOD .
 

MatthewG

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case in point . they justify their love of evil instead of repenting of it .
Hey mathew , I USED TO LOVE THAT OL SONG . I sure did . Listened to it a lot way back in the day .
BUT something amazing happened when GOD actually drew me to saving faith in Christ .
I no longer seemed to love evil , and had a new heart for the things that honored GOD .
At least you can be honest and open about what you been through and what you use to like my friend, sure its been dead for awhile, no reason to forget we are all sinners and that guy could have went on to heaven despite some silly song he sang! That is my point, sure i get some people cant stand some things and i can respect that.
 

VCO

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case in point . they justify their love of evil instead of repenting of it .
Hey mathew , I USED TO LOVE THAT OL SONG . I sure did . Listened to it a lot way back in the day .
BUT something amazing happened when GOD actually drew me to saving faith in Christ .
I no longer seemed to love evil , and had a new heart for the things that honored GOD .

Jude 1:17-19 (HCSB)
17 But you, dear friends, remember what was predicted by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
18 they told you, “In the end time there will be scoffers walking according to their own ungodly desires.”
19 These people create divisions and are unbelievers, not having the Spirit.

And we walked into that one.
 
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MatthewG

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God created sex anyway, and its okay for people to have, and procreate. Some things cross the line though when child abuse and neglect or even to an adult things need to be reported, and get anyone away from those situtation of the ones who can not defend themselves.
 

RR144

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They are PART of the BRIDE not all OF IT . the bride of CHRIST consists of both the believing jews
believing gentiles and the believing one hundred and forty four thousand male jews who were virgins ,.
I am not saying paul was one of the one hundred and forty four thousand . But it would be like him .
He was never married , he was of the tribe of benjamin .
What tribe are you of . exactly .
I also know there is a lot of symbols . But its very plain about this .
Plain? No offense but it sounds more like confusion the way you explain it. How about piecing it together for us using scripture AND reason.
 

Jack

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I know the Bible clearly tells us that the majority will burn in Hell but I'm sure there are many more than 144,000 true Christians in this world, not to mention Israel.

Romans 11
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins."
 

VCO

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I know the Bible clearly tells us that the majority will burn in Hell but I'm sure there are many more than 144,000 true Christians in this world, not to mention Israel.

Romans 11
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins."

The truth about the 144,000, is written into the TEXT about them. They are Mortal Jews, and GOD has to Chosen to protect them, because the World's Armies will unleash nuclear war against Christ, but NOT until HE GETS HIS PEOPLE TO SAFTY, ALL 144,000 OF THEM, IN THEIR MORTAL BODIES. They have over run the Country and are Looting everything of value, when CHRIST ARRIVES, splitting Mt. of Olives. Then they will quickly fire off their nukes and whatever else they bring with them. And then with HIS PEOPLE in a safe place, HE turns HIS FULL ATTENTION ON THEM AND LET'S GO! And blood will run out to the Valley of Megiddo as deep as the Bridle of Horses. HOW ? ? ?

It doesn't say, but I have a big clue.

Colossians 1:17 (NIV)

17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Colossians 2:19 (NRSV)

19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the whole body, nourished and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows with a growth that is from God.


IF Christ is so FED UP with these Mortal Armies, Couldn't HE just LET GO, and all the flesh would fall off their bones, instantly? Yes, that to could be a literal Prophecy, that easily!

Revelation 14:19-20 (NIV)

19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God's wrath.
20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses' bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

Now with that in mind, PLEASE READ: Zech. 14:1-21.


What is the Purpose of MORTAL JEWS, going into the 1000 Year Millennium ? ? ?

Literally to repopulate ISRAEL with Mortal Jews.

We are in our Glorified Bodies, and will live forever in those Bodies.

Non-Jewish People wanting to be part of the 144,000, have never thought it through, or do not know what they are talking about.

Yes, All 144,000 will be MORTAL JEWS, and will get older, and older, and then they die hundreds of years LATER.

Here's what you are wishing for:

1683568292845.png , 1683568469936.png
 
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Keiw

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avedNo. 144,000 is the number of saints or the bride of Christ. Revelation 14:1, 4 (NKJV),… “one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads. ... not defiled with women, … are virgins…. the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes.” In this present life, only the saints have obediently followed Jesus.

Are the rest of mankind redeemed? Yes!

“Who (?Jesus?) gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." - 1 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) A ransom is a corresponding price. It is the price paid in place of the one to be released. Hence it is of equal value to the prisoner. Recall 1 Corinthians 15:22, “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” Jesus was the price of equal value corresponding to Adam.

How was Jesus considered equal to Adam?

Adam was a perfect man created in God’s image. (See Genesis 1:27 and Deuteronomy 32:4.) None of Adam’s offspring could redeem Adam because we are all imperfect - “… a sinner the moment my mother conceived me.” - Psalm 51:5 (NET) God’s justice, declared in the Law, requires a life for a life. An equal payment (Exodus 21:23). In the special case of Adam, a perfect human life was plunged into death and required a perfect human life to ransom him from death. Thus, as 1 Timothy 2:6 states, Jesus was that perfect human life.

To further explain, Adam had a perfect human race within his loins. Jesus also had a perfect human race within himself. When Jesus redeemed Adam, the corresponding price for Adam’s unborn, sinful race was Jesus’s unborn, perfect human race. God’s law of a life for a life was upheld.

1 Timothy 2:6 also states that this truth will be made known “in due time.” What is the due time? Today, the high calling to follow in Jesus’s sacrificial footsteps is open. The purpose is to call out the church class. These are the first fruits (Revelation 4:4). They receive the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) with the heavenly reward of sitting with Jesus on thrones in heaven (Revelation 20:3, Luke 22:30). These are the 144,000 of Revelation 7 and 14.

However, a great number of redeemed, spirit-begotten Christians are not willingly faithful to their covenant to sacrifice their wills and flesh (Romans 12:1) to do only God’s will. These need tribulation to wash their robes (Revelation 7:9). While they do receive a heavenly resurrection, they do not receive the divine nature. They stand before Christ’s throne to serve God.

The due time for mankind to receive redemption will be during the general human resurrection when Christ reigns on Earth. Then, “…I (God) will put my law within them (starting with Israel and spreading to all), and I will write it upon their hearts; … I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." - Jeremiah 31:33-34 RSV

Jesus redeemed ALL!
The 144,000= the little flock( Luke 12:32)= the anointed bride of Christ. Only these are bought( Rev 14:3) from the earth, to rule as kings and priests on thrones beside Jesus( Rev 1:6, Rev 20:6)
The great crowd( Rev 7:9) of other sheep( John 10:16) which no man can number are not of that fold, not promised heaven, But promised earth-Matt 5:5, Psalm 37:29--Prov 2:21-22
 

VCO

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The 144,000= the little flock( Luke 12:32)= the anointed bride of Christ. Only these are bought( Rev 14:3) from the earth, to rule as kings and priests on thrones beside Jesus( Rev 1:6, Rev 20:6)
The great crowd( Rev 7:9) of other sheep( John 10:16) which no man can number are not of that fold, not promised heaven, But promised earth-Matt 5:5, Psalm 37:29--Prov 2:21-22

In my opinion, that is a new level of Wrong. Where did you here that? Never heard that before.

Just so you KNOW. Who is Jesus talking to in the John 10:16? It is the Last of the Old Testament Assembly.

Other Sheep is US, remember the Birthday of the New Testament Assembly is not until the Day of Pentecost, after HIS Ascension.
 
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Keiw

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In my opinion, that is a new level of Wrong. Where did you here that? Never heard that before.

Just so you KNOW. Who is Jesus talking to in the John 10:16? It is the Last of the Old Testament Assembly.

Other Sheep is US, remember the Birthday of the New Testament Assembly is not until the Day of Pentecost, after HIS Ascension.
Jesus is speaking about the great crowd of other sheep, that no man can number, who are not of this fold( =The little flock.) at John 10:16--The little flock is numbered=144,000 bought from the earth( Rev 14:3)--They make up 1 flock, but 2 separate promises. Only those will get saved. = about 1% of mankind.
 

RR144

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The great crowd (Rev 7:9) of other sheep (John 10:16) which no man can number are not of that fold, not promised heaven, But promised earth-Matt 5:5, Psalm 37:29--Prov 2:21-22
The other sheep are not the Great Company of Rev 7:9. Let's look at John 10, who is Jesus speaking too? Chapter 9 tells us it's the Pharisees (9:13). Jesus came to the "lost sheep" of Israel (Matt. 15:24). If the Jews had accepted Him as the Messiah, the Church, the anointed, the 144,000 would be made up entirely of Jews. But Israel as a Nation rejected him, and so Jesus tells them,. "I have other sheep, not of this fold". What fold was he referring too? The Jewish fold. "To the Jew first, then the Greek" (Romans 1:16; 2:10) The "Other Sheep" are the gentiles, that why the Apostle Paul writes "For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in." Romans 11:25
 

VCO

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This is the Simplest portion of scripture to under stand, and it is beyond me, why some many try to read into this everything but what it actually says.

Revelation 7:4-11 (ASV)
4 And I heard the number of them that were sealed, a hundred and forty and four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the children of Israel: {Simple: it means what it is saying. It is literally the 70th Week of Daniel.}
5 Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand:
Of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand;
Of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand;
6 Of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand;
Of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand;
Of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand;
7 Of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand;
Of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand;
Of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand;
8 Of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand;
Of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand;
Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

{We've been in heaven since Rev. 4:4 or sooner, how do I know? Because the church Elders have taken their Seats on the THRONES, and spirit beings like when we die, have no body to sit on. So it is after the Rapture, which is when we get our Glorified Bodies. We go as a GROUP, The Door of Heaven is Open for us, and HERE WE ARE IN HEAVEN FOR THE WEDDING OF THE LAMB. NOTICE when Christ work of redeeming us was finished, HE SAT DOWN ON THE THRONE. When the NEW TESTAMENT SAINTS WORK IS FINISHED, then and only then, the NEW TESTATMENT Saints get to sit down. HOW simple is that ? ? ? }
9 After these things I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 and they cry with a great voice, saying, Salvation unto our God who sitteth on the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels were standing round about the throne, and about the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

Revelation 4:4 (ASV)
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty thrones: and upon the thrones I saw four and twenty elders sitting, arrayed in white garments; and on their heads crowns of gold.

That means their work is FINISHED. You what PROOF, look at the Earthly TEMPLE. HOW MANY SEATS WERE IN IT ? ? ?

Only ONE, the Mercy Seat, in the Holy of Holies.


1683616860284.png

No Pew, No Seats, No Thrones, only the Mercy Seat.

After we get our work done, then in Heaven we get to Sit Down, and the Church Elders in John's Vision, were SEATED ON THRONES.

WHY? The New Testament Saints were FINISHED with what God wanted them to do on EARTH. Rev. 4:4
 
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Keiw

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The other sheep are not the Great Company of Rev 7:9. Let's look at John 10, who is Jesus speaking too? Chapter 9 tells us it's the Pharisees (9:13). Jesus came to the "lost sheep" of Israel (Matt. 15:24). If the Jews had accepted Him as the Messiah, the Church, the anointed, the 144,000 would be made up entirely of Jews. But Israel as a Nation rejected him, and so Jesus tells them,. "I have other sheep, not of this fold". What fold was he referring too? The Jewish fold. "To the Jew first, then the Greek" (Romans 1:16; 2:10) The "Other Sheep" are the gentiles, that why the Apostle Paul writes "For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in." Romans 11:25
Spiritual Israel is Gods chosen now, Literal Israel is cut off. They( Israel religion) outright refuse to do Matt 23:39 and they never will. My post is accuraye about the little flock and other sheep. Blind guides tell all they are going to heaven.
 

VCO

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Spiritual Israel is Gods chosen now, Literal Israel is cut off. They( Israel religion) outright refuse to do Matt 23:39 and they never will. My post is accuraye about the little flock and other sheep. Blind guides tell all they are going to heaven.

Spiritual Israel, YOU, added that Word. And that is a VERY dangerous practice.

Revelation 22:18-19 (NASB)
18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

Let me show what GOD says about ISRAEL. By the way, the word Church was never used by JESUS, or the Apostles, and they used the Same word that GOD called the Fold of the Old Testament the ASSEMBLY, so the New Testament ASSEMBLY, is a Second Fold, and at the Rapture we become ONE FLOCK led by CHRIST HIMSELF. The word Church was added to the BIBLE about 300 AD.

Matthew 16:18 (YLT) YOUNG"S LITERAL TRANSLATION
18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

John 10:15-16 (YLT)
15 according as the Father doth know me, and I know the Father, and my life I lay down for the sheep,
16 and other sheep
{N.T. Assembly} I have that are not of this fold {O.T. Assembly, because the so-called Church-age, does not start until the HOLY SPIRIT filled the Church at the day of Pentecost.}, these also it behoveth me to bring, and my voice they will hear, and there shall become one flock {At the Rapture we become one flock.} --one shepherd.

O.T. Assembly, Believed GOD would Send the Messiah to pay for their sins.

N.T. Assembly, Believed GOD did Send the Messiah to pay for our sins.

SAME FAITH!

Now I will show you what GOD say about the Remnant of Israel.

Psalm 103:8-11 (HCSB)
8 The LORD is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger and rich in faithful love.
9 He will not always accuse ⌊us⌋ or be angry forever.
10 He has not dealt with us as our sins deserve or repaid us according to our offenses.
11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is His faithful love toward those who fear Him.

Psalm 37:28 (HCSB)
28 For the LORD loves justice and will not abandon His faithful ones. They are kept safe forever, but the children of the wicked will be destroyed.

Isaiah 57:16 (HCSB)
16 For I will not accuse ⌊you⌋ forever, and I will not always be angry; for then the spirit would grow weak before Me, even the breath ⌊of man⌋, which I have made.

Isaiah 62:5 (NJB)
5 Like a young man marrying a virgin, your rebuilder will wed you, and as the bridegroom rejoices in his bride, so will your God rejoice in you.

Isaiah 54:5-6 (HCSB)
5 Indeed, your husband is your Maker- His name is Yahweh of Hosts- and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer; He is called the God of all the earth.
6 For the LORD has called you, like a wife deserted and wounded in spirit, a wife of one’s youth when she is rejected,” says your God.


I guess you missed those verses, you may want to apologize to HIM.
 

Keiw

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Spiritual Israel, YOU, added that Word. And that is a VERY dangerous practice.

Revelation 22:18-19 (NASB)
18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

Let me show what GOD says about ISRAEL. By the way, the word Church was never used by JESUS, or the Apostles, and they used the Same word that GOD called the Fold of the Old Testament the ASSEMBLY, so the New Testament ASSEMBLY, is a Second Fold, and at the Rapture we become ONE FLOCK led by CHRIST HIMSELF. The word Church was added to the BIBLE about 300 AD.

Matthew 16:18 (YLT) YOUNG"S LITERAL TRANSLATION
18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

John 10:15-16 (YLT)
15 according as the Father doth know me, and I know the Father, and my life I lay down for the sheep,
16 and other sheep
{N.T. Assembly} I have that are not of this fold {O.T. Assembly, because the so-called Church-age, does not start until the HOLY SPIRIT filled the Church at the day of Pentecost.}, these also it behoveth me to bring, and my voice they will hear, and there shall become one flock {At the Rapture we become one flock.} --one shepherd.

O.T. Assembly, Believed GOD would Send the Messiah to pay for their sins.

N.T. Assembly, Believed GOD did Send the Messiah to pay for our sins.

SAME FAITH!

Now I will show you what GOD say about the Remnant of Israel.

Psalm 103:8-11 (HCSB)
8 The LORD is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger and rich in faithful love.
9 He will not always accuse ⌊us⌋ or be angry forever.
10 He has not dealt with us as our sins deserve or repaid us according to our offenses.
11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is His faithful love toward those who fear Him.

Psalm 37:28 (HCSB)
28 For the LORD loves justice and will not abandon His faithful ones. They are kept safe forever, but the children of the wicked will be destroyed.

Isaiah 57:16 (HCSB)
16 For I will not accuse ⌊you⌋ forever, and I will not always be angry; for then the spirit would grow weak before Me, even the breath ⌊of man⌋, which I have made.

Isaiah 62:5 (NJB)
5 Like a young man marrying a virgin, your rebuilder will wed you, and as the bridegroom rejoices in his bride, so will your God rejoice in you.

Isaiah 54:5-6 (HCSB)
5 Indeed, your husband is your Maker- His name is Yahweh of Hosts- and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer; He is called the God of all the earth.
6 For the LORD has called you, like a wife deserted and wounded in spirit, a wife of one’s youth when she is rejected,” says your God.


I guess you missed those verses, you may want to apologize to HIM.
The last straw was sending their own Messiah to his death, out of hatred. But lovingly the door was left open to them after Jesus assured them they were cut off of being Gods chosen in Matt 23:38, they refuse to do verse 39, its been over 1950 years. So yes it is spiritual Israel that is now Gods chosen. Jesus didn't speak to 7 synagogues in Revelation, did he? John didn't have a clue what Gods chosen religion would be called in the last days so he referenced Israel, just to mean Gods chosen, not literal Israel, spiritual Israel. Out of symbolism, a lot of that is found in Revelation.
 

VCO

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The last straw was sending their own Messiah to his death, out of hatred. But lovingly the door was left open to them after Jesus assured them they were cut off of being Gods chosen in Matt 23:38, they refuse to do verse 39, its been over 1950 years. So yes it is spiritual Israel that is now Gods chosen. Jesus didn't speak to 7 synagogues in Revelation, did he? John didn't have a clue what Gods chosen religion would be called in the last days so he referenced Israel, just to mean Gods chosen, not literal Israel, spiritual Israel. Out of symbolism, a lot of that is found in Revelation.

We all disserve NO MERCY, for our sins. And you are saying NO MERCY for the Jews. OH, MY.

Hebrews 4:16 (NASB)
16 Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace,
so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

But you say, NO MERCY OR GRACE for the Jews.

That is not what GOD SAYS:

Psalm 130:7-8 (NASB77)
7 O Israel, hope in the LORD; For with the LORD there is lovingkindness, And with Him is abundant redemption.
8 And He will redeem Israel From all his iniquities.

You do know that GOD is the Author of Poetic Justice

Oh my ! ! !

Malachi 3:6 (NJB)
6 ‘No; I, Yahweh, do not change;
and you have not ceased to be children of Jacob!

Jeremiah 50:20 (NCV)
20 The LORD says, “At that time people will try to find Israel’s guilt, but there will be no guilt. People will try to find Judah’s sins, but no sins will be found, because I will leave a few people alive from Israel and Judah, and I will forgive their sins.

Jeremiah 50:20 (NIV)

20 In those days, at that time," declares the LORD, "search will be made for Israel's guilt, but there will be none, and for the sins of Judah, but none will be found, for I will forgive the remnant I spare.

OH MY! I know GOD is the Author of Poetic Justice, and it would not surprise me when we are Standing and Praising HIM in heaven, that HE will assign two Jews to help you Stand Up!
 

bluedragon

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The 144,000 are celebat Jewish men. I think they are like Red Hefers being in a secret society hidden from the masses.

New Jerusalem is 1230 miles by 1230 miles by 1230 miles tall. That will house billions. Why construct a building so massive to house only 144,000 ? Because we forget generation after generation that has true believers going to their graves. Not just today on earth .....thousands of generations who died believing in the word of God. Forgiven of their sins each time they used a moment to praise God and seek forgiveness ....
 

face2face

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When @Keiw was asked about this highly symbolic number in Rev 14:1 I asked him if lamb was a literal lamb like the number 144,000.

I also asked him if is this literal literal lamb standing on its hind legs on literal mount Zion.

What do you think he did?
 

Keiw

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We all disserve NO MERCY, for our sins. And you are saying NO MERCY for the Jews. OH, MY.

Hebrews 4:16 (NASB)
16 Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace,
so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

But you say, NO MERCY OR GRACE for the Jews.

That is not what GOD SAYS:

Psalm 130:7-8 (NASB77)
7 O Israel, hope in the LORD; For with the LORD there is lovingkindness, And with Him is abundant redemption.
8 And He will redeem Israel From all his iniquities.

You do know that GOD is the Author of Poetic Justice

Oh my ! ! !

Malachi 3:6 (NJB)
6 ‘No; I, Yahweh, do not change;
and you have not ceased to be children of Jacob!

Jeremiah 50:20 (NCV)
20 The LORD says, “At that time people will try to find Israel’s guilt, but there will be no guilt. People will try to find Judah’s sins, but no sins will be found, because I will leave a few people alive from Israel and Judah, and I will forgive their sins.

Jeremiah 50:20 (NIV)

20 In those days, at that time," declares the LORD, "search will be made for Israel's guilt, but there will be none, and for the sins of Judah, but none will be found, for I will forgive the remnant I spare.

OH MY! I know GOD is the Author of Poetic Justice, and it would not surprise me when we are Standing and Praising HIM in heaven, that HE will assign two Jews to help you Stand Up!
Matt 23:39 is what they need to do to get mercy--they won't do it.