Another Premillennial absurdity

[Randy Kluth]

You are fighting with Jesus here.

No, I'm fighting your "interpretation" of Jesus. Not the same thing.

 

[WPM]

No, I'm fighting your "interpretation" of Jesus. Not the same thing.

It is! You know it!

 

[Randy Kluth]

It is! You know it!

Are you trying to be provocative? I do not equate what you say with what Jesus said unless it is true. It certainly isn't always true. Otherwise, like the Pope you think that when you are "enthroned on the seat of Peter" you are doctrinally without error.

I don't believe we should ever say, when someone disagrees with us, that they are "fighting Jesus." That's judgmental--judging by appearances. You would have to be inspired by God to declare such a thing.

And I can tell you right now that you're not judging properly. I know that because I know in my heart I'm living in submission to Jesus--not fighting him. I'm trying to interpret his word properly, to the best of my ability.

If you're not trying to provoke me, I urge you to stop using language that does in fact provoke me. Otherwise, I will know that you are doing this deliberately. And that doesn't represent Jesus at all.

2 Cor 6.3 We put no stumbling block in anyone’s path, so that our ministry will not be discredited.

 

[WPM]

Are you trying to be provocative? I do not equate what you say with what Jesus said unless it is true. It certainly isn't always true. Otherwise, like the Pope you think that when you are "enthroned on the seat of Peter" you are doctrinally without error.

I don't believe we should ever say, when someone disagrees with us, that they are "fighting Jesus." That's judgmental--judging by appearances. You would have to be inspired by God to declare such a thing.

And I can tell you right now that you're not judging properly. I know that because I know in my heart I'm living in submission to Jesus--not fighting him. I'm trying to interpret his word properly, to the best of my ability.

If you're not trying to provoke me, I urge you to stop using language that does in fact provoke me. Otherwise, I will know that you are doing this deliberately. And that doesn't represent Jesus at all.

2 Cor 6.3 We put no stumbling block in anyone’s path, so that our ministry will not be discredited.

Why do you always want to take offence and play the victim? It is so hard to discuss with you. And please don't lecture anyone about judging. You are the most ruthless judger on this board.

What i presented is taken from Christ's own mouth, so i reject your false interpretation.

Once more: Where in Scripture does it teach: when Jesus comes “those who have not yet made up their minds" will enter into the new age, and have opportunity after Christ returns to accept the dictates of his Kingdom?

You have provided nothing so far!

 

[jeffweeder]

What i presented is taken from Christ's own mouth, so i reject your false interpretation.

Once more: Where in Scripture does it teach: when Jesus comes “those who have not yet made up their minds" will enter into the new age, and have opportunity after Christ returns to accept the dictates of his Kingdom?

I agree

What Jesus said out of his own mouth in no way alludes or supports such a notion. The Lord exhorts us to be ready and awake for his coming so we can be found worthy.

It doesn't get any more obvious and comprehensive as this...,

3 We ought always and indeed are morally obligated [as those in debt] to give thanks to God for you, brothers and sisters, as is fitting, because your faith is growing ever greater, and the [unselfish] love of each one of you toward one another is continually increasing. 4 Therefore, we speak of you with pride among the churches of God for your steadfastness [your unflinching endurance, and patience] and your firm faith in the midst of all the persecution and [crushing] distress which you endure. 5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering.

6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day [that is, glorified through the changed lives of those who have accepted Him as Savior and have been set apart for His purpose], and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed and trusted [and confirmed in your lives].

 

[Randy Kluth]

Why do you always want to take offence and play the victim? It is so hard to discuss with you. And please don't lecture anyone about judging. You are the most ruthless judger on this board.

What i presented is taken from Christ's own mouth, so i reject your false interpretation.

Once more: Where in Scripture does it teach: when Jesus comes “those who have not yet made up their minds" will enter into the new age, and have opportunity after Christ returns to accept the dictates of his Kingdom?

You have provided nothing so far!

This is the kind of answer that deserves to let you hear it once again: "I'm not interested."

 

[Randy Kluth]

It is! You know it!

You're deliberately provocative, not a servant, and willfully put stumbling blocks in the way of others. You do not have my respect, and this is why I question your Christianity, or the quality of your Christianity. It boggles my mind that others defend you????

 

[Randy Kluth]

Sorry. I takes Jesus interpretation and application of this before your bias mistaken Premil one. You are fighting with Jesus here.

Your malicious behavior cannot be justified simply by claiming others are malicious too. I'll let God be the judge.

You are deliberately being provocative by claiming I'm "fighting Jesus" when I've told you I have no such motive. Your choice, but God sees.

Disagreeing with your views is not "fighting Jesus" by default. That would mean that you think you're sinless.

Rom 14.19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification.

 

[WPM]

This is the kind of answer that deserves to let you hear it once again: "I'm not interested."

Of course you are not. The rest of us are interested in scriptural truth. That is why we post.

You have no answer to simple questions like this because you make it up as you go.

 

[WPM]

Your malicious behavior cannot be justified simply by claiming others are malicious too. I'll let God be the judge.

You are deliberately being provocative by claiming I'm "fighting Jesus" when I've told you I have no such motive. Your choice, but God sees.

Disagreeing with your views is not "fighting Jesus" by default. That would mean that you think you're sinless.

Rom 14.19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification.

Yah-dee-dah-dee-dah. Edification like this?

I question your Christianity, or the quality of your Christianity.

For you Eternal Life seems to be a concept, a doctrine, rather than a life experience

Are you even a real Christian?

you're a fake Christian, a backslidden Christian, or some kind of egotistical Christian.

I'm honestly concerned for the state of your soul.

you must be spiritually blind

Thankfully you are not God. You are doing the work of the accuser of the brethren.

 

[jeffweeder]

You are deliberately being provocative by claiming I'm "fighting Jesus" when I've told you I have no such motive. Your choice, but God sees.

Why not quote something that Jesus said that supports your claims and prove us wrong.? We are quoting what Jesus said to get you to reconsider your position as we should.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Why not quote something that Jesus said that supports your claims and prove us wrong.? We are quoting what Jesus said to get you to reconsider your position as we should.

If you're defending a guy that is calling me a child of the Devil, you're as bad as he is. The fact that both of you refer to "us" or "we" indicates you are not objective, but separate yourselves into a schismatic doctrinal party.

There are many legitimate Christians who are not Amill. The fact you make Amill a litmus test for what is "honest Christianity" puts you in the category of poor Christians in history, who fought religious wars over the most ridiculous of differences.

I just noticed today that another Christian forum (Christian Forums) has shut down its debate forum due to a failure to live within the rules and by a decline in interest. It may be coincidental, WPM was in the thick of this when this happened. It was his provocations, in fact, that got me banned from a particular discussion about Amill vs. Premill--I have no idea if WPM himself filed the complaint against me that got me banned from that thread?

I know you both think you are just fine with other Premills--just not fine with me? I wonder why that is? Could it be because some of my questions expose your own views to legitimate hardball questions, whereas you wish only to receive softball questions?

 

[jeffweeder]

There are many legitimate Christians who are not Amill. The fact you make Amill a litmus test for what is "honest Christianity" puts you in the category of poor Christians in history, who fought religious wars over the most ridiculous of differences.


I know you both think you are just fine with other Premills--just not fine with me? I wonder why that is? Could it be because some of my questions expose your own views to legitimate hardball questions, whereas you wish only to receive softball questions?

This is not about you Randy and its not a litmus test.

Its about what the Lord has said, so why not season our posts by fixing our eyes and ears on what he has said about his future coming?

 

[Randy Kluth]

This is not about you Randy and its not a litmus test.

Its about what the Lord has said, so why not season our posts by fixing our eyes and ears on what he has said about his future coming?

Sure it's about me. It's about every one of us, and about the way we operate in delivering God's word.

We do damage to our testimony when we start getting "personal" and overly negative. Certainly a limited amount of "negativity" is unavoidable. But we *never* have to lose our love for one another. The fact that we do is indicated by the fact Jesus had to make it a command: "love one another."

That's what I keep telling WPM, and you keep defending him. I will be happy to discuss issues with anyone. But I'm forced to tell the Amill camp I'm not "interested" with the paraphernalia, with the extracurricular comments. I think you know what I mean?

 

[jeffweeder]

Sure it's about me. It's about every one of us, and about the way we operate in delivering God's word.

God's word is what we are all about. We should quote it and reinforced what he said.
We keep our own opinions to a complete minimum as we Quote the Lords own word. May the Holy Spirit quicken to our ears what we must hear as we take a back seat.

 

[Randy Kluth]

God's word is what we are all about. We should quote it and reinforced what he said.
We keep our own opinions to a complete minimum as we Quote the Lords own word. May the Holy Spirit quicken to our ears what we must hear as we take a back seat.

I have no idea what you mean by taking a back seat with our opinions. Every time we quote the word of God we have an opinion about what it means. This illusion of "self-explanatory words" is weird in view of the fact you hear on these forums all the time each party claim to have "God's own word" on something!

So this artificial division between the "self-explanatory word of God" and our "interpretive license and opinion" is a ruse. It becomes a battering ram to be used by any party to bash the other side as "those who add to God's word."

In principle I would agree with you. But again, it's a ruse to claim that anybody's interpretation is not obvious from God's word and is therefore, "just an opinion, added to God's word."

Nor is it even wrong to have opinions, as well as speculations. We all know that doctrine comes from the Apostles' Teaching, or from Scripture. We're all going to have to explain what we mean when we teach God's word, because that is in the nature of communication. It is *not* "adding to God's word."

Not anymore than translating the Scriptures from Greek to English is "adding to God's word!" When you translate from Greek to English, one often has to add words that were not there in the Greek in order to make it understood in English. So also, when we interpret God's word, an ancient document, we often have to add words of explanation to give the sense in our language and time.

 

[WPM]

If you're defending a guy that is calling me a child of the Devil, you're as bad as he is. The fact that both of you refer to "us" or "we" indicates you are not objective, but separate yourselves into a schismatic doctrinal party.

There are many legitimate Christians who are not Amill. The fact you make Amill a litmus test for what is "honest Christianity" puts you in the category of poor Christians in history, who fought religious wars over the most ridiculous of differences.

I just noticed today that another Christian forum (Christian Forums) has shut down its debate forum due to a failure to live within the rules and by a decline in interest. It may be coincidental, WPM was in the thick of this when this happened. It was his provocations, in fact, that got me banned from a particular discussion about Amill vs. Premill--I have no idea if WPM himself filed the complaint against me that got me banned from that thread?

I know you both think you are just fine with other Premills--just not fine with me? I wonder why that is? Could it be because some of my questions expose your own views to legitimate hardball questions, whereas you wish only to receive softball questions?

How often you describe yourself, when attacking others. Not interested with the paraphernalia, with the extracurricular comments.

 

[WPM]

Your malicious behavior cannot be justified simply by claiming others are malicious too. I'll let God be the judge.

You are deliberately being provocative by claiming I'm "fighting Jesus" when I've told you I have no such motive. Your choice, but God sees.

Disagreeing with your views is not "fighting Jesus" by default. That would mean that you think you're sinless.

Rom 14.19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification.

Once more: Where in Scripture does it teach: when Jesus comes “those who have not yet made up their minds will enter into the new age, and have opportunity after Christ returns to accept the dictates of his Kingdom"?

 

[Truth7t7]

I'm trying to interpret his word properly, to the best of my ability.

It's my opinion your in denial of continual presented scriptural truth, that exposes your claims and beliefs in error

"National Salvation For Israel" a false dream in a Zionist fairy tale!

 

[Truth7t7]

If you're not trying to provoke me, I urge you to stop using language that does in fact provoke me. Otherwise, I will know that you are doing this deliberately. And that doesn't represent Jesus at all.

Nobody is provoking Randy, your teachings and beliefs are being "Exposed" as you back into a corner of denial, shouting out false claims of attacks

Do you think Spirit filled Christians are going to sit silent on your teachings in error, not a chance!