Amil can only be proved to be true if Amils accept all of the following terms and convincingly satisfy these terms.

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why not just copy and paste from the kjv link I gave ?

Why not just bring up the passage yourself if you need to see the verse numbers? Too hard for you? I read his post, too. It was not hard at all to identify where verses 4 and 7 were in what he posted from Psalm 2:1-12 based on what he quoted from those verses. You're trying to make a mountain out of a molehill here and I can't help but to wonder why.

 

[IndianaRob]

When does this happen?

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By his great mercy he gave us new birth (anagennáō) into a living (záō) hope THROUGH the resurrection (anástasis) of Jesus Christ from the dead".

I don’t recognize that Bible version but from the King James Bible that verse is saying “which according to his abundant mercy hath brought forth us again unto a lively hope”.

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

 

[Douggg]

Why not just bring up the passage yourself if you need to see the verse numbers? Too hard for you? I read his post, too. It was not hard at all to identify where verses 4 and 7 were in what he posted from Psalm 2:1-12 based on what he quoted from those verses. You're trying to make a mountain out of a molehill here and I can't help but to wonder why.

If someone is gong to make a post and present passages from the bible, then they should display the verses numbers in the passages. It is automatic when a person copies and pastes from the kjv link I provided.

What is your source to copy and paste bible passages from ?

 

[IndianaRob]

I didn't say faith is the second birth. Good grief. Faith in what people hear (the word of God) results in being born again. You are not able to debate my beliefs because your own beliefs are from your imagination and not from scripture.

Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Faith - Your belief system.
Hearing - The ability to HEAR God.
You’re ability to HEAR - Comes from BELIEVING every single word in the Bible EXACTLY as written.

The “hearing” in that verse is illustrated in this verse.

Jhn 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

If you Spiritual Israelite, have HEARING then you will see that John 8:43 is saying that “My Word” is HIDDEN in His Speech.

If you Spiritual Israelite, have HEARING then you will see that “His Word” is hidden in the literal words of the Bible.

 

[rwb]

Go back, redo your post. You are presenting Psalms 2:1-12 in a form that does not identify the verses. Thus, making your post hard to understand and un-readable.

You can go here to copy and paste from the kjv.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Psalms-Chapter-2/

How does numbering the verses of Ps 2 make any difference to the truths WPM has presented for you?

Ps 2:1 ¶ Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
Ps 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
Ps 2:3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
Ps 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
Ps 2:5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
Ps 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Ps 2:7 ¶ I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Ps 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Ps 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Ps 2:10 ¶ Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
Ps 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Ps 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Faith - Your belief system.
Hearing - The ability to HEAR God.
You’re ability to HEAR - Comes from BELIEVING every single word in the Bible EXACTLY as written.

The “hearing” in that verse is illustrated in this verse.

Jhn 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

If you Spiritual Israelite, have HEARING then you will see that John 8:43 is saying that “My Word” is HIDDEN in His Speech.

If you Spiritual Israelite, have HEARING then you will see that “His Word” is hidden in the literal words of the Bible.

Nothing but word salads from you. This is a waste of time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If someone is gong to make a post and present passages from the bible, then they should display the verses numbers in the passages. It is automatic when a person copies and pastes from the kjv link I provided.

He almost always does, so why get bent out of shape just because he didn't do it in that one post? Good grief, Douggg. Lighten up. He did show which chapter and verses the text was from, so you shouldn't make a big deal out of this.

What is your source to copy and paste bible passages from ?

biblegateway.com

 

[Douggg]

This is irrefutable evidence that Psalm 2 relates to the intra-Advent period.

No, you are wrong. Psalms 2 is about Jesus's Second Coming. Nothing in the text of the verses you cited refer to what it says below in verse 3 - Let us (the kings of the earth) break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

Psalms 2 is about the kings of the earth gathering their armies in Revelation 16:13-16 at Armageddon to make war on Jesus and His armies of heaven (Revelation 19:14, Revelation 19:19). The bands in verse 3 is referring to Jesus and His armies of heaven.

Taking counsel together in verse 2 is what happens in Revelation 16:13-14.

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Regardless of where the kingdom is, Paul very clearly taught that mortal flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 15:50). But, you have mortal flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God. You can't get around the fact that you are contradicting 1 Corinthians 15:50 with your doctrine.

No I don't.

Teh Millennial Kingdom is not the eternal state. Matt. 25 shows that Jesus judges the survivors and allows some intot he promised kingdom and others not.

During th eMillennial, people will reproduce and repopulate the earth.

Where does that say He is on earth there? It doesn't! You are trying to make scripture say what you want it to say! The fact of the matter is that the judgment cannot take place in heaven or on earth as we know it because of what it says here:

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

You are conflating eternity with the Millennial Kingdom. they are different.

also let us consider some biblical facts.

REv. 12. Mid point of the tribulation- Michael and Satan war and Satan is kicked out of heaven. When Jeus returns to earth, Satan is already not able to go to heaven again .

Revelation 20:3

King James Version

​

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Satan deceives people on earth, not heaven, and He already has been cast out of heaven.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

He gathers an army of decieved. Are you suggesting that people in heaven will fall from grace?

Fire comes down from heaven to smite Satan! Heaven is up, eareth is down. so all this happens on teh Millennial earth.

If you would like, and ask, I will gladly list out the lengthy amount of verses that speak of what life will be like on teh Millennial earth.

Do you not think that God is sovereign? You are sadly mistaken if you don't! Yet, He has allowed those things from the beginning of time! Your understanding of being sovereign and reigning is completely flawed! Using your logic, you must believe that God has been impotent since He created man since you believe man's behavior determines who is sovereign or not. Allowing bad things to happen is because there is free will and does not reflect any weakness on God the Father's part or on King Jesus's part.

But you forget, since Adam and Eves fall, satan is allowed to be the ruler of this world. When Jesus actively rules, Gods Word says He will rule with a rod of iron. Looking around now, it would be more of a marshmallow than a rod of iron.

As for evil reigning now, Gods word says He allows it for His purposes now.

Him ruling with a rod of iron has to do with Him destroying His enemies. You are not reading scripture carefully at all.

Revelation 2:27
And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 12:5
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 19:15
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

No, it has to do with ruling them. ruling and destroying are 2 vastly different things.

 

[WPM]

No, you are wrong. Psalms 2 is about Jesus's Second Coming. Nothing in the text of the verses you cited refer to what it says below in verse 3 - Let us (the kings of the earth) break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

Psalms 2 is about the kings of the earth gathering their armies in Revelation 16:13-16 at Armageddon to make war on Jesus and His armies of heaven (Revelation 19:14, Revelation 19:19). The bands in verse 3 is referring to Jesus and His armies of heaven.

Taking counsel together in verse 2 is what happens in Revelation 16:13-14.

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

I gave you the evidence. You avoided it. You then ensued to presnt what you have been taught. You obviously do not want the truth on this issue. You are in love with a doctrine.

 

[Douggg]

I gave you the evidence. You avoided it. You then ensued to presnt what you have been taught. You obviously do not want the truth on this issue. You are in love with a doctrine.

You are talking about me, making false accusations. Instead, address the content of my post regarding Psalms 2:1-3.

 

[WPM]

You are talking about me, making false accusations. Instead, address the content of my post regarding Psalms 2:1-3.

You skipped around mine. It is pointless.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No I don't.

Teh Millennial Kingdom is not the eternal state. Matt. 25 shows that Jesus judges the survivors and allows some intot he promised kingdom and others not.

Jesus indicates that the ones figuratively represented as the sheep, which He calls "the righteous" in Matthew 25:46, inherit "life eternal" in " the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world". How can that not be the eternal state? How can "the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" not be the same kingdom of God that Paul referenced in 1 Corinthians 15:50?

During th eMillennial, people will reproduce and repopulate the earth.

You are conflating eternity with the Millennial Kingdom. they are different.

There is no future earthly millennial kingdom. You are making Matthew 25:31-46 say what you want it to say, but what it actually indicates is that immortals will inherit "life eternal" in the eternal kingdom of God at that point. It is not talking about mortals inheriting a temporal earthly kingdom.

REv. 12. Mid point of the tribulation- Michael and Satan war and Satan is kicked out of heaven. When Jeus returns to earth, Satan is already not able to go to heaven again .

Mid point of the tribulation? Where are you getting that from? Satan was already kicked out of heaven long ago.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

There are two things to notice here. The first is that when Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven it says "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ".

Do you somehow not know that salvation, strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ already came long ago?

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Salvation already came long ago by way of Christ's death and resurrection. That made the way for people to spiritually enter the kingdom of God, which "is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost" (Romans 14:17). And the gospel of Christ "is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth". If you can't see a connection between Romans 1:16 and Revelation 12:10, then it can only be because doctrinal bias is clouding your vision.

The other thing to notice about Revelation 12:9-10 is that Satan being cast out of heaven results in him no longer being able to accuse believers before God day and night anymore. Surely, Satan has not been able to accuse believers before God for a long time!

Romans 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

Paul clearly taught that no one can bring any charge/accusation against those whom God has chosen. That includes Satan. The reason for that is because our sins are forgiven and covered by the blood of Christ. How can anyone accuse us when there is nothing held against us because of our sins being covered by His blood?

Revelation 20:3​

​

King James Version​

​

​

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Satan deceives people on earth, not heaven, and He already has been cast out of heaven.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

He gathers an army of decieved. Are you suggesting that people in heaven will fall from grace?

Of course I'm not suggesting that! Are you kidding? You clearly have no understanding of Amillennialism at all. How can you try to argue against something of which you have no understanding? I believe the fire that comes down on all the wicked at that point is the same fire that other scripture says will come down when Christ returns, such as 2 Thess 1:7-10 and 2 Peter 3:10-13.

Fire comes down from heaven to smite Satan! Heaven is up, eareth is down. so all this happens on teh Millennial earth.

If you would like, and ask, I will gladly list out the lengthy amount of verses that speak of what life will be like on teh Millennial earth.

But you forget, since Adam and Eves fall, satan is allowed to be the ruler of this world. When Jesus actively rules, Gods Word says He will rule with a rod of iron. Looking around now, it would be more of a marshmallow than a rod of iron.

As for evil reigning now, Gods word says He allows it for His purposes now.

Revelation 2:27
And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 12:5
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 19:15
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

No, it has to do with ruling them. ruling and destroying are 2 vastly different things.

LOL. Do you just ignore the correlatiing references to destruction like Him smiting the nations and treading the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God? You are ignoring the context of what it means for Him to rule with a rod of iron. The context of that is Him destroying His enemies.

 

[rwb]

No, the resurrected martyred great tribulation saints, who refused to worship the beast (who will rule for 42 months) and his image (the abomination of desolation setup 1335 days before Jesus Returns) are brought back to life as the first resurrection (of the millennium period) and will reign with Christ one thousand years here on earth - while Satan is in the bottomless prison for 1000 years in Revelation 20:1-3

How do you reconcile saints being bodily resurrected to life again for one thousand years with the FACT that Scripture says the bodily resurrection of ALL the dead shall come in the hour coming when the last trump sounds and time shall be no longer?

 

[rwb]

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


Now you need to convincingly explain how false religion can be taken, then cast alive into the LOF, to then be tormented day and night for ever and ever according to Revelation 20:10.

You must first explain how to reconcile a bodily resurrection of saints to live on THIS earth for one thousand years with the verses that clearly prove you err in your understanding. Because none of the dead shall be resurrected before the hour coming when the last trump sounds and time given this earth shall be no longer!

 

[rwb]

I think you might want to consider how the following verses fit into the idea that Jesus is currently reigning on the earth:

SI never said Jesus is currently reigning on the earth! What he said is, "Scripture teaches that He has been reigning since His resurrection (Matt 28:18, Eph 1:19-23, Rev 1:5-6), but you ignore that." He seems to be correct saying you ignore that.

When Jesus does rule on the earth, it will be with a rod of iron. Judging from the state of the world today, it appears that whoever is ruling is doing so with a wet noodle.

What Scripture support can you provide to prove Jesus will rule on, instead of from above this earth?

 

[rwb]

You are talking about me, making false accusations. Instead, address the content of my post regarding Psalms 2:1-3.

He did address the content of your post using Scripture to prove what he says. OTOH you try to refute the truths he gave you with your opinions that few if any are really interested in hearing without support from the Word of God.

 

[Rich R]

SI never said Jesus is currently reigning on the earth! What he said is, "Scripture teaches that He has been reigning since His resurrection (Matt 28:18, Eph 1:19-23, Rev 1:5-6), but you ignore that." He seems to be correct saying you ignore that.

Or I simply misunderstood. But God forbid I should be granted such grace. No, I have a comprehension problem and I willfully ignore others. C'mon, act like a brother who loves another brother.

What Scripture support can you provide to prove Jesus will rule on, instead of from above this earth?

The 150+ promises of land and a kingdom God promised to Israel. The first promise was made to Abraham where the land was a land that Abraham could see with his eyes. God told him to look North, East, South, and West. Never said anything about looking up. I see no evidence that such land became other heavenly. God is very consistent in His use of the word, "land."

 

[rwb]

Or I simply misunderstood. But God forbid I should be granted such grace. No, I have a comprehension problem and I willfully ignore others. C'mon, act like a brother who loves another brother.

The 150+ promises of land and a kingdom God promised to Israel. The first promise was made to Abraham where the land was a land that Abraham could see with his eyes. God told him to look North, East, South, and West. Never said anything about looking up.

I apologize if I came on too strongly.

Every single promise God made to Israel of Old regarding the promised land of Cannan has already been fulfilled. Nothing, according to Joshua that God promised them regarding possessing the physical land is left unfulfilled. To have right understanding of the promise of Cannan to Israel of Old, you must consider all that God told them they must not do IF they desired to possess the land forever. God's promise for them to inherit the land forever was always conditioned upon their faithfulness.

Jos 21:43 ¶ And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass

Jos 23:1 ¶ And it came to pass a long time after that the LORD had given rest unto Israel from all their enemies round about, that Joshua waxed old and stricken in age.
Jos 23:2 And Joshua called for all Israel, and for their elders, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers, and said unto them, I am old and stricken in age:
Jos 23:3 And ye have seen all that the LORD your God hath done unto all these nations because of you; for the LORD your God is he that hath fought for you.
Jos 23:4 Behold, I have divided unto you by lot these nations that remain, to be an inheritance for your tribes, from Jordan, with all the nations that I have cut off, even unto the great sea westward.
Jos 23:5 And the LORD your God, he shall expel them from before you, and drive them from out of your sight; and ye shall possess their land, as the LORD your God hath promised unto you.
Jos 23:6 Be ye therefore very courageous to keep and to do all that is written in the book of the law of Moses, that ye turn not aside therefrom to the right hand or to the left;
Jos 23:7 That ye come not among these nations, these that remain among you; neither make mention of the name of their gods, nor cause to swear by them, neither serve them, nor bow yourselves unto them:
Jos 23:8 But cleave unto the LORD your God, as ye have done unto this day.
Jos 23:9 For the LORD hath driven out from before you great nations and strong: but as for you, no man hath been able to stand before you unto this day.
Jos 23:10 One man of you shall chase a thousand: for the LORD your God, he it is that fighteth for you, as he hath promised you.
Jos 23:11 ¶ Take good heed therefore unto yourselves, that ye love the LORD your God.
Jos 23:12 Else if ye do in any wise go back, and cleave unto the remnant of these nations, even these that remain among you, and shall make marriages with them, and go in unto them, and they to you:
Jos 23:13 Know for a certainty that the LORD your God will no more drive out any of these nations from before you; but they shall be snares and traps unto you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until ye perish from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you.
Jos 23:14 And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which the LORD your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, and not one thing hath failed thereof.
Jos 23:15 Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you.
Jos 23:16 When ye have transgressed the covenant of the LORD your God, which he commanded you, and have gone and served other gods, and bowed yourselves to them; then shall the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and ye shall perish quickly from off the good land which he hath given unto you.

 

[Douggg]

You skipped around mine. It is pointless.

Your post did not address Psalms 2:1-3. verses 1-3 is what places the rest of Psalms 2 at Jesus Second Coming.