All the ones who do not know God, all the wicked and proud will be burned up when Christ returns, OT and NT say this

[WPM]

I realize it is a parable, but so what? Since it is a parable does that mean none of Christ's enemies are literally slain in some manner? Since it is a parable, should we take it to mean no one actually literally leaves the planet at some point to go and receive a kingdom for Himself then literally return at some point? So on and so on.





Do you know anything about agriculture the fact this parable is using agriculture imagery to make a point? The little I know about agriculture, in the early stages tares apparently resemble wheat. What does wheat symbolize in the parable? The saved in the church, right? If tares are meaning all the lost on the planet though, including atheists etc, and that in it's early stages, agriculturally speaking, tares resemble wheat, in what way do atheists ever at any time resemble the saved in the church?

In the event you haven't figured my point out by now, it again relates to context. By you suggesting the wheat and tares parable helps my arguments pertaining to the talents parable, not destroys them instead. IOW, context still rules.

I wonder do you fully read the text (or parable) before you come out with things like this. So often it seems like you force your thinking into the sacred text. That is called eisegesis. Jesus said "The field is the world." The wheat and tares are a symbolic collective inclusive representation of all mankind; the wheat representing “the children of the kingdom” (Matthew 13:38) – those saved by God’s wonderful grace; the tares representing “the children of the wicked one” (Matthew 13:38) – those outside of grace and of God. This is beyond dispute. We cannot deny the infallible words of Christ.

 

[Davidpt]

I wonder do you fully read the text (or parable) before you come out with things like this. So often it seems like you force your thinking into the sacred text. That is called eisegesis. Jesus said "The field is the world." The wheat and tares are a symbolic collective inclusive representation of all mankind; the wheat representing “the children of the kingdom” (Matthew 13:38) – those saved by God’s wonderful grace; the tares representing “the children of the wicked one” (Matthew 13:38) – those outside of grace and of God. This is beyond dispute. We cannot deny the infallible words of Christ.

Actually I'm hardly the only one that interprets it in this manner. You can query Google, for example, and come up with numerous links that support what I'm arguing. It might be different if I was the only person on the planet arguing it in this manner, but that is hardly the case. I still insist context determines how to understand and interpret something. And since it is using agriculture imagery, we then have to interpret it based on that by researching the connection between wheat and tares and what it means in a real world sense.

For example. Tares are not being compared with apples. They are being compared with wheat. In the real world, according to what I have read, tares resemble wheat it it's early stages. We then have to apply that to this parable. What resembles wheat in it's early stages per this parable? Atheists? Atheists resemble the saved in the early stages?? Surely not. No one could possibly think that. But if we have tares meaning atheists, that's what we then have to conclude, atheists resemble the saved in the church in the early stages. Total nonsense of course. But that is what generally happens when one interprets something out of context, they end up with total nonsense.

 

[Davidpt]

Amill: Unsaved Christians killed for the witness of Christ and for refusing worship and the mark?? Unsaved do not do those things.

I'm not certain what you are meaning by this? Can you provide an example of how Amils would be doing this?

 

[ewq1938]

I'm not certain what you are meaning by this? Can you provide an example of how Amils would be doing this?

Sure:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

They believe the first resurrection is these people being saved ie: a spiritual resurrection but this resurrection comes AFTER they are beheaded which they believe is death by various means not only a literal beheading.

So, that means they believe these people had the witness of Christ, and rejected worship of the beast, image, and the MoB BEFORE BEING SAVED/SPIRITUALLY BEING RESURRECTED.

As I said, unsaved people do not have the witness of Christ, and reject worship of the beast, image, and the MoB. People will only do those things if they are already saved, not before being saved.

If Amill was correct the order would have to be the spiritual resurrection (and they lived) first, then the witness and refusal to worship and take the mark and then be killed/beheaded but that isn't the order Rev 20:4 provides.

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus talks a lot about Armies surrounding the nation at the time of their destruction, and I believe what he said was true. In 70ad Israel was destroyed, that was a generation that was told about this coming destruction, and for those who were told to believe and be saved, and did so were saved from that destruction. Their whole place burned up, and those whom went against Yahavah, his wrath was poured upon them on that day in time which was a loss materially due to the wrapping up of that age.

 

[WPM]

Jesus talks a lot about Armies surrounding the nation at the time of their destruction, and I believe what he said was true. In 70ad Israel was destroyed, that was a generation that was told about this coming destruction, and for those who were told to believe and be saved, and did so were saved from that destruction. Their whole place burned up, and those whom went against Yahavah, his wrath was poured upon them on that day in time which was a loss materially due to the wrapping up of that age.

You seem fixated with 70AD. I never hear you talking about the cross or the glorious future return of Christ.

 

[MatthewG]

You seem fixated with 70AD. I never hear you talking about the cross or the glorious future return of Christ.

It’s because I believe it already happen. Most think I’m a joke because of that. It’s not up to me to tell you how to believe. You must decide that for yourself.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Do you know anything about agriculture the fact this parable is using agriculture imagery to make a point? The little I know about agriculture, in the early stages tares apparently resemble wheat. What does wheat symbolize in the parable? The saved in the church, right? If tares are meaning all the lost on the planet though, including atheists etc, and that in it's early stages, agriculturally speaking, tares resemble wheat, in what way do atheists ever at any time resemble the saved in the church?

The subject is what the "Kingdom of God" is likened unto. It talks about GOD'S PEOPLE in His congregation (kingdom) on Earth. There are two groups of people within the congregation. The saved and the corporate believers. The Elect and the professed believers. Consider wisely in Revelation 11:

Rev 11:1-2
(1) And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
(2) But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The holy city "is" the kingdom of God on Earth. Inside the Holy city, the "measured" temple, altar and worshippers therein are all chosen Elect. The measuring reed "like unto a rod" illustrates God's correction of His people to ensure they are up to His Image. They are the wheat. But those in the court outside the temple (and yet within the Holy City) are not measured because they are not chosen Elect. They are the one who have not yet been sealed by God (Revelation 9) and are only unsaved professed believers of the kingdom. Therefore, they are the tares. This is why they appear to look like a wheat in the kingdom, but inside they are nothing but tares.

 

[ewq1938]

In 70ad Israel was destroyed, that was a generation that was told about this coming destruction

Israel wasn't destroyed. Jerusalem was destroyed. That's one city of Israel.

 

[MatthewG]

Israel wasn't destroyed. Jerusalem was destroyed. That's one city of Israel.

Like I said, it’s not up to me to people how to believe. No matter what, I’m a person who believes fulfillment has happened. It does not mean much to even tell me I’m wrong cause it’s not up to you to choose how I may believe concerning things.

 

[Timtofly]

Israel wasn't destroyed. Jerusalem was destroyed. That's one city of Israel.

Jerusalem was not the only city destroyed. Jerusalem was the last walled city destroyed. The Romans were forcing the revolting Jews out of every walled city, and Jerusalem was the last holdout.

The northern 10 tribes had already been destroyed over 700 years earlier. Palestine in the first century, was the last destruction of Israel.

 

[ewq1938]

Like I said, it’s not up to me to people how to believe. No matter what, I’m a person who believes fulfillment has happened. It does not mean much to even tell me I’m wrong cause it’s not up to you to choose how I may believe concerning things.

Well, you are wrong because Rome destroyed Jerusalem not all of Israel.

 

[MatthewG]

Well, you are wrong because Rome destroyed Jerusalem not all of Israel.

That’s fine, @ewq1938. Just please be aware, I will irrefutably continue to persist that the return of Jesus Christ has happened, faithfully.

If that offends you, or if that bothers you, to cause less issues it would be preferred that you understand this very thing which is I respect you right to believe what you want to believe concerning the return of Jesus Christ being for the future.

While I do not agree with the statement, nor choose to believe that way anymore; you have the total freedom to do so as it doesn’t effect anyone salvation in the Lord Yeshua concerning the deliverance from a once lived lifestyle or way.

I rather be wrong, and ignored by you; than you think or believe that you need to “correct” me. You choose what you may do from here, and all the best to you and your family.

Thank you so much!

 

[ewq1938]

That’s fine, @ewq1938. Just please be aware, I will irrefutably continue to persist that the return of Jesus Christ has happened, faithfully.

If that offends you, or if that bothers you, to cause less issues it would be preferred that you understand this very thing which is I respect you right to believe what you want to believe concerning the return of Jesus Christ being for the future.

While I do not agree with the statement, nor choose to believe that way anymore; you have the total freedom to do so as it doesn’t effect anyone salvation in the Lord Yeshua concerning the deliverance from a once lived lifestyle or way.

I rather be wrong, and ignored by you; than you think or believe that you need to “correct” me. You choose what you may do from here, and all the best to you and your family.

Thank you so much!

Cool, so does this mean you believe Rome destroyed Israel in AD70? Or do you accept the correction that only Jerusalem was destroyed?

 

[MatthewG]

@ewq1938

Josephus wrote The Jewish War, which recorded the Great Jewish Revolt (AD 66–70) and included the siege of Masada 1. He claimed that the war of the Jews against the Romans was the greatest of his time and greater than any other recorded struggles between cities or nations 2. Josephus wrote originally in his native Aramaic and translated into Greek for the convenience of the Emperor's other subjects 2. He wrote in response to incorrect histories and to correct the record of the Jews' resistance against the Roman forces 3.

Yes I do believe that Rome destroyed the lands which were given to the Israelites. Hope that helps.

 

[ewq1938]

@ewq1938

Josephus wrote The Jewish War, which recorded the Great Jewish Revolt (AD 66–70) and included the siege of Masada 1. He claimed that the war of the Jews against the Romans was the greatest of his time and greater than any other recorded struggles between cities or nations 2. Josephus wrote originally in his native Aramaic and translated into Greek for the convenience of the Emperor's other subjects 2. He wrote in response to incorrect histories and to correct the record of the Jews' resistance against the Roman forces 3.

Yes I do believe that Rome destroyed the lands which were given to the Israelites. Hope that helps.

Based on what? Josephus didn't say Rome destroyed Israel. The bible doesn't say it either.

 

[MatthewG]

Based on what? Josephus didn't say Rome destroyed Israel. The bible doesn't say it either.

Sorry, I find this conversation really not going anywhere. I’ve done stated what needed to be stated to you sir. Regardless or not you accept the shared information is up to you. To be blunt, straightforward and honest with you, the Bible says a lot of things. What you take away, what you believe, and decide from it, is up to you not anyone else. I simply accept things foretold by Jesus concerning armies surrounding them, which came to fruition which I believe are not wrong. If you see them as wrong however by all means, then as you stated before “I am wrong.” To continue to converse like this is pointless, and you should understand that. If I have to I’ll just set you personally on ignore, as I have no problem with being straightforward, blunt and honest to you.

Thank you for your time, and I’m sorry if I have wasted any of yours, take care!

 

[ewq1938]

Sorry, I find this conversation really not going anywhere.

Translation: Stop proving me wrong. I don't like that.

 

[Davidpt]

The subject is what the "Kingdom of God" is likened unto. It talks about GOD'S PEOPLE in His congregation (kingdom) on Earth. There are two groups of people within the congregation. The saved and the corporate believers. The Elect and the professed believers. Consider wisely in Revelation 11:

Rev 11:1-2
(1) And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
(2) But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The holy city "is" the kingdom of God on Earth. Inside the Holy city, the "measured" temple, altar and worshippers therein are all chosen Elect. The measuring reed "like unto a rod" illustrates God's correction of His people to ensure they are up to His Image. They are the wheat. But those in the court outside the temple (and yet within the Holy City) are not measured because they are not chosen Elect. They are the one who have not yet been sealed by God (Revelation 9) and are only unsaved professed believers of the kingdom. Therefore, they are the tares. This is why they appear to look like a wheat in the kingdom, but inside they are nothing but tares.

Doesn't this basically mean we are in agreement here, in regards to who the tares are meaning in that context? You don't think, per this context, tares also mean, for example, atheists, witches, satanists, etc, right?

 

[Scott Downey]

Exactly! And by ignoring context like some of these interpreters do is to then make total nonsense out of the imagery used. How does it make sense, if in the real world, tares resemble wheat in it's early stages, and then contradict that by insisting the tares are meaning all of the lost in general, including atheists when atheists never resemble the saved in the church at any stage?

Tares resemble wheat in it's early stages, meaning in the real world. For example. Tares do not resemble apples in it's early stages, right?

What is meant by the wheat in this parable? The saved in the church, obviously. Therefore, the tares in it's early stages resemble the saved in the church. Do atheists at any time ever resemble the saved in the church? Of course not. There you go then. In context since context counts and matters, no way are the tares meaning every single lost person on the planet. Therefore, Amils are wrong to insist there won't be anyone to rule over in a future millennium because all of the lost are allegedly destroyed when Christ returns.

What you submitted in post #3 alone proves them wrong. We can then add to that, to name a few, Isaiah 24:21-22, Zechariah 14:16-19, and Daniel 7:12, as further proof that proves them wrong.

Not to mention, the point you made in regards to their proposed millennium. According to Revelation 20 deceiving the nations and the nations rebelling come after the millennium not during it. Per their proposed millennium, by comparing to real world reality, they have both being rampant throughout the millennium, nations rebelling and nations still being deceived. Then we are expected to agree they have the millennium in the right place.

Tares are the sons of the devil
Wheat are the sons of the kingdom of God
Tares do not turn into the WHEAT.
Wheat does not turn into Tares.

Who is planted by who?
Who are the tares?
" The enemy who sowed them is the devil"
The tares are all of them, of the devil.

If anyone is in Christ he is a NEW CREATION. Old things have passed away, all things are become new. And all this is of God.
The wheat, all of them are of God.
All tares are to be burned in the fire
All wheat is to be gathered into His barn.

Parable of the Tares explained

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!