14 IRRESOLVABLE CONTRADICTIONS WHICH RESULT FROM A LITERAL RICH MAN AND LAZARUS

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amigo de christo

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Well you are wrong.
We still have to contend with truth and the real....The world is not flat....you cannot put two of every animal on earth on one boat.
This is one of reasons that we are losing the youth in Christianity.....People like you....still a good person....people like you make Christianity seem like a fairytale and they are not willing to invest their lives and devotion into a fairytale.

George….So how did they feed all those animals on Noah’s Ark?
Bill….They feed them the floating dead bodies of sinners.
George….What did they do with all the poop?
Bill….God commanded the animals to poop over the side of the boat.
we do still have to contend with truth . the only problem is that many are contending by mens own doctrines
which they say IS Truth . and if one reads the bible , THE WORLD aint flat . i even seen that in the old test for myself .
it aint flat , it aint square . its a circle . even says so in ISSAIH .
TIME WE READ FOR OURSELVES . or follow the hirelings to perdition . Bible up . far better than seven up .
SEVEN UP , no caffeine , never had it never will
BIBLE UP , no lies , never had it never will . its men who lie and twist and lie in wait to DECIEVE .
and though i know some still do truth and teach truth , THEY A SPECK OF DUST on a moutain comparred to the wicked moutain
who leads and has led this people astray . BIBLE UP . ITS REFRESHING and GOOD FOR THE SOUL .
 
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Phoneman777

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Its as big as it needs to be., similar to Hell.
It would be plausible to suggest "Abraham's bosom" is some geographical location on some spiritual map - if not for the fact that we read Lazarus was carried "into the bosom of Abraham" which is clearly not a reference to some geographical location on some spiritual map - but to a physiological part of our anatomy.

There's not getting around it. Jesus said "into the bosom of Abraham" which refers to the man's literal bosom. Therefore, "Abraham's bosom" also must refer to the same, despite what ancient Jews - positively the most rebellious people to ever grace the topside of the earth - thought it meant.
 

Grailhunter

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we do still have to contend with truth . the only problem is that many are contending by mens own doctrines
which they say IS Truth . and if one reads the bible , THE WORLD aint flat . i even seen that in the old test for myself .
it aint flat , it aint square . its a circle . even says so in ISSAIH .
TIME WE READ FOR OURSELVES . or follow the hirelings to perdition . Bible up . far better than seven up .
SEVEN UP , no caffeine , never had it never will
BIBLE UP , no lies , never had it never will . its men who lie and twist and lie in wait to DECIEVE .
and though i know some still do truth and teach truth , THEY A SPECK OF DUST on a moutain comparred to the wicked moutain
who leads and has led this people astray . BIBLE UP . ITS REFRESHING and GOOD FOR THE SOUL .
There is no such thing as personal truth. You can have personal beliefs and options. But facts are universal. And the scriptures describe the earth as flat.
 

Phoneman777

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First off I am not offering an explanation for the inaccuracies in Lazarus and the Rich man.
Inaccuracies?
I am saying in parables or stories it is the message that is important not the factual background.

So once we stop ignoring the 14 contradictions……
Do we ignore the story completely?
Do we continue to look for other contradictions to ignore?
Last count over 300 apparent contradictions…..where do we start?
"Irreconcilable" is just that - attempts to reconcile what's irreconcilable is pointless.

Therefore, the only way to maintain Scriptural harmony is to reject anything that undermines it - the very thing that happens when we take a symbolic parable with elements that are Biblically prohibited from happening in real experience, and make them literal.
 

Phoneman777

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A real bible student would not use a parable to try to explain the immortal soul.
A real bible student, would turn to Genesis, and read that God who is A spirit... breathed into Adam and Adam became a living soul.
The same "spirit" that God says He breathed into Adam DEPARTED from Adam the moment Adam died.

"And the spirit shall return to God Who gave it".

Can YOU or I return to the moon? Why not?
 

amigo de christo

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There is no such thing as personal truth. You can have personal beliefs and options. But facts are universal. And the scriptures describe the earth as flat.
you want to believe what them scholars taught you , so much you are willling and ready to overlook the truth in scripture .
NEVER SAID the earth was flat . DUMB MEN DID THAT
cause they thought the four corners meant it was flat . NOPE it just meant NORTH SOUTH EAST and WEST .
IT IS HE WHO SITTETH UPON the CIRCLE OF THE WORLD . EVEN ISSIAH seen that . its ROUND pardner NOT FLAT .
but you so need to heed and to learn and to read of scholars you so trust in . That is dangerous friend .
Read for THYSELF . let no man try and tell you THAT it cannot be done lest ye sit under them . tHEY LIE and DO NOT THE TRUTH .
 
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amigo de christo

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There is no such thing as personal truth. You can have personal beliefs and options. But facts are universal. And the scriptures describe the earth as flat.
yep many sure seem to heed their scholars interpreation . BINGO .
tell me what so called wise scholar and its greek should i sit under .
The baptist one , or maybe the methodist or heck maybe the JW
or eventhe RCC or the mormon . YOU all been sold a lie my friends . WE can and we should have LEARNEED that bible FOR OURSELVES .
 

amigo de christo

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There is no such thing as personal truth. You can have personal beliefs and options. But facts are universal. And the scriptures describe the earth as flat.
you do realize what that meant right .
it means the BIBLE , the scriptures did not COME OF MENS OWN THOUGHTS
but rather OF GOD who moved men to speak .
MEN who loved and love power and control have sold their denominations a lie and by that lie
they will not move away but rather sit and continue to sit under these so called wise scholarly interpreations .
SO again . WHAT SCHOLAR should i heed . now as always the answer will be
OH THE ONES I LIKE . as every group do say . WE better watch out
cause now them scholars are at work to merge us all too . OOPS , leaven seems to never cease
but rather gets worse and worse as error begets only more error . BIBLE TIME , let us read for ourselves .
 
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amigo de christo

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There is no such thing as personal truth. You can have personal beliefs and options. But facts are universal. And the scriptures describe the earth as flat.
dont ya find it rather odd that the man who by grace read ONLY the bible
SEEMS to be the ONE WHO FIGHTS THE MOST TO CONTEND FOR THE TRUE FAITH , the YE MUST BELEIVE JESUS IS THE CHRIST
while the rest just go with the flow of another influence and wont stand for or contend for the true gospel .
LOOK around at this site . FORGET the fact i told you that i read my bible for myself
HECK pretend i did send under scholars . BUT YOU GO and YOU LOOK and YOU SEE
who by grace is so fast to always correct these people who try and even budge us into the idea
of not having to beleive JESUS is the CHRIST . meanwhile , TRY AND HELP ME , ITS COMING IN THIS PLACE more and more
and worse more are starting to be influenced by these bringers of a fable
CAUSE PEOPLE WONTREMOVE THEM from the site . GUESS JUDGE NOT CORRECT NOT RULES THE ROOST here .
WELL not on my watch it dont . correction will be made on my watch . frankly i dont give a rip what happens to me either .
I DO as i do for the sake of all peoples , EVEN the ones who despise me .
 
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Phoneman777

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Though there were and have been true men throughout all ages who stood and contended for the truth faith
the problem within MUCH , but not all , of the protestant reformation was
though many of them had COME OUT of THE RCC , THE RCC was not fully removed from them .
THIS MESS led to disaster .
Its like the old saying goes , you can take the harlot out of the trailer park but you cant always get the trail park out of the harlot .
MANY of the leaders of the protestant realm had about enough truth to expose things about the RCC
but only enough to make themselves dangerous and THEY DID NOT COMPLETELY REMOVE all bad doctrines
but quickly rather just formed their own creeds and mottos . SOME , a few of the true lambs
saw this and they made an all out attempt to return to the original pattern left to us .
BOTH SIDES hated these true lambs . AND TODAY THEY HATE THEM EVEN MORE SO
as now both sides are being UNIFIED ONCE AGAIN and THAT WITH ALL THE RLEIGOINS to the cry of a HARLOT
WE IN TROUBLE . WE ARE IN TROUBLE . GET THE PEOPLE BACK INTO JUST , and i mean JUST the BIBLE .
Yes, but little by little, Protestantism purged itself of catholicism:

Luther discovered the most important of all truths: salvation by grace through faith ALONE.
Calvin brought the truth that we were predestined by God for higher, nobler existence to the forefront.
Smyth and Williams brought the truth of baptism by immersion to the forefront.
The Wesleys brought God's "method of salvation" which is "righteousness by FAITH" to the forefront.
Parham brought the importance of the Holy Spirit to the forefront.
Browne brought the truth of "bottom up" church congregational leadership to the forefront.

The Seventh-day Adventists brought the truth of the Sabbath and the soon return of Jesus to the forefront - however, it took 60 years for the rest to get on our "heretical" Advent bandwagon and they will soon have to choose to either embrace "Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible". (Catholic Mirror, December 1893)
 

amigo de christo

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Yes, but little by little, Protestantism purged itself of catholicism:

Luther discovered the most important of all truths: salvation by grace through faith ALONE.
Calvin brought the truth that we were predestined by God for higher, nobler existence to the forefront.
Smyth and Williams brought the truth of baptism by immersion to the forefront.
The Wesleys brought God's "method of salvation" which is "righteousness by FAITH" to the forefront.
Parham brought the importance of the Holy Spirit to the forefront.
Browne brought the truth of "bottom up" church congregational leadership to the forefront.

The Seventh-day Adventists brought the truth of the Sabbath and the soon return of Jesus to the forefront - however, it took 60 years for the rest to get on the Advent bandwagon and will soon either choose to embrace "Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible". (Catholic Mirror, December 1893)
yeah but they also brought lies too .
Though always a remnant has been present who would not budge nor add or allow to be added in any leaven .
compromise is not impossible my friend . not for the lambs . they wont budge , they will not compromise .
The best thing for a lamb is GET THEM IN THE BIBLE and to read it for themselves .
There is even a tiny group of us who do this already . we dont fight or argue , we read it together
and by ourselves . My advice is real simple . Cast aside all denonimations and start fresh in that bible for yourself .
YOU SEE the beauty of what could and can happen . but few , very few will do this .
Remember interfaith finding common ground is of satan and cometh of the well favored harlot
who is fast merging all denominations and now moves in to merge them with all religoins too .
THE WHORE SLEEPS NOT and the Dragon roams taking captive whom he will . BIBLE TIME .
 
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Grailhunter

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Inaccuracies?

"Irreconcilable" is just that - attempts to reconcile what's irreconcilable is pointless.

Therefore, the only way to maintain Scriptural harmony is to reject anything that undermines it - the very thing that happens when we take a symbolic parable with elements that are Biblically prohibited from happening in real experience, and make them literal.
That does not sound feasible. People would come up with their own Bible by crossing scriptures out.
 

amigo de christo

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Yes, but little by little, Protestantism purged itself of catholicism:

Luther discovered the most important of all truths: salvation by grace through faith ALONE.
Calvin brought the truth that we were predestined by God for higher, nobler existence to the forefront.
Smyth and Williams brought the truth of baptism by immersion to the forefront.
The Wesleys brought God's "method of salvation" which is "righteousness by FAITH" to the forefront.
Parham brought the importance of the Holy Spirit to the forefront.
Browne brought the truth of "bottom up" church congregational leadership to the forefront.

The Seventh-day Adventists brought the truth of the Sabbath and the soon return of Jesus to the forefront - however, it took 60 years for the rest to get on our "heretical" Advent bandwagon and they will soon have to choose to either embrace "Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible". (Catholic Mirror, December 1893)
Blue cleanses the wound .
Ye shall make blue borders upon your garments to remind ye of the law .
And now a word . THE man of lawlessness , the WHORE of HIS MAKING has no blue .
what if that is a key to saying LAWLESSNESS . NOT saying it is but just saying .
You be on gaurd now . The religions and all denominations willl continue to merge
as the false love encapsulates them all . all who loved and made a lie .
the mystery of inquity , IT AINT COMING . ITS BEEN HERE ALL ALONG and now has grown far worse .
That which is of anti christ , is not coming , ITS BEEN HERE AND GROWS MASSIVE NOW and even now
there are many many many anti christs whereby WE KNOW it is the last time .
A HARLOT SITS high and she has gathered before and she has killed before .
she has run her course through the ages . always a season of ecumincalism followed by a season of CRUSADES
against any and all who conformed not . NOW in the last hour
as her ecumincal lie has grown and is merging all , THEY WILL COME and sit at her table
and THEN ITS BLOOD AGAINST ANY and I DO MEAN agains ALL who conformed not to her lie . YOU MARK THEM WORDS .
ITS ON THE RISE EVEN NOW .
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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Not sure where you get that definition from. When the Bible says "every living soul died in the sea" it's not talking about "invisible persons".
... a "living" soul. I am talking about a dead soul. Maybe you don't understand what death is? The Bible describes death and equates it to something deeper than a lifeless body in a coffin six feet deep.
Genesis 2:7 KJV defines a "soul" as the union of the Body and the Breath of Life - bodies are very much visible, even dead bodies, which proves the "soul" is also visible.
That is a Living human soul. A dead human does not breath and his flesh rots in the ground. He does not go out-of existence. If so, you would have to delete many descriptions about death and I can give you a list.
We are made in God's image. Do you know exactly what that means? It is not a visible form as one would see in the mirror. Since God is invisible, we are made with His attributes: a mind, will, emotions, creativity, etc.
As for your above definition, is that applicable to God? No.
OUR FATHER HAS A SOUL.
"Behold, My Servant whom I have chosen; My Beloved in whom My soul is well-pleased". Matt. 12:18
Let's look at that statement. He is asking you to observe Jesus, which is a communication, reflecting intelligence (coming from HIS MIND to ours) and that He has volitionaĺly chosen Him. Obviously, this observation requires much thought, reflection, study, guidance from the Spirit and time on our part to really know Jesus. Then He states He is well pleased, an expression of satisfaction, feelings.
There you have it: mind, will and emotions.
 
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amigo de christo

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Yes, but little by little, Protestantism purged itself of catholicism:

Luther discovered the most important of all truths: salvation by grace through faith ALONE.
Calvin brought the truth that we were predestined by God for higher, nobler existence to the forefront.
Smyth and Williams brought the truth of baptism by immersion to the forefront.
The Wesleys brought God's "method of salvation" which is "righteousness by FAITH" to the forefront.
Parham brought the importance of the Holy Spirit to the forefront.
Browne brought the truth of "bottom up" church congregational leadership to the forefront.

The Seventh-day Adventists brought the truth of the Sabbath and the soon return of Jesus to the forefront - however, it took 60 years for the rest to get on our "heretical" Advent bandwagon and they will soon have to choose to either embrace "Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible". (Catholic Mirror, December 1893)
something that many do not know and even wickipedia did not deny is
there is a seat and a name and the name adds up to SIX HUNDRED THREE SCORE and SIX .
and aint it something that from that seat IT HAS INFLUENCED the kings of this earth and now
even through interfaith , that which IS OF ANTI CHRIST , it is merging all to come as one under its shade .
EVEN WICKEPIDIA did not deny that the number is SIX HUNDRED THREE SCORE AND SIX
it just tried to claim , NO POPE ever used that title . NOW YA KNOW WHO AND WHAT SYSTEM I SPEAK OF MY FRIEND .
it has been , it has killed before and it has grown in size , power and influence and SHE WILL KILL AGAIN . mark them words .
 
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Ronald Nolette

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Since when has truth been popular?

In the garden of Eden, Cain and "the wicked one" went after Abel.

In Noah's day, the crowd drowned.

In Nehemiah's day, the crowd stayed behind in Babylon.

In Jesus' day, the crowd shouted, "Crucify Him!"

In 70 A.D., the crowd that stayed behind instead of fleeing wound up crucified or dragged off.

"THE CROWD HAS NEVER BEEN RIGHT!" - Pastor C. D. Brooks
Well you are on a thread where teh super majority are believers and love the truth, so that is an irrelevant point.

If you want to show truth, prove that Lazarus is a parable, you have not.
 

Ronald Nolette

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I never said "the souls of men do not have recognizable form". If you want to see "the recognizable form of a soul" simply go look in a mirror.

You are a soul.
I am a soul.
A dog is a soul.
"Every living soul that was in the sea died" refers to living creatures in the sea.

"Soul" simply means "living being" or "creature".
I am a body, soul and spirit as Paul asked to be blessed.

also Pual taught us that when we are absent from the body, we are present with the Lord! So there is more to us than just the body which in the OT was called nephesh or soul.

Just remember that the OT did not have the knowledge of spiritual things we in the NT have. God di dnot reveal everything all at once, but revealed it progressively over time.

Even Paul noted that several things he revealed were mysteries in the old.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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It would be plausible to suggest "Abraham's bosom" is some geographical location on some spiritual map - if not for the fact that we read Lazarus was carried "into the bosom of Abraham" which is clearly not a reference to some geographical location on some spiritual map - but to a physiological part of our anatomy.
Your interpretation lacks wisdom.
Abraham's bosom is just an expression that when when Lazarus arrived in Paradise, he was greeted by Abraham with a hug, as anyone can greet you, put their arm around you up against their bosom. Your mom had you at her bosom, your Dad too? Others have come along and given you a hug on occasion, hopefully? Well, when we see Jesus and all the prophets, we'll get a warm hug ... next to their bosoms.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Who said I was using the WEB as "a final authority"? Or that I base my understanding of Scripture on just that one translation? You are making incorrect assumptions.
Well you quoted exclusively from the WEB to make your case.
Most Bible versions are not literal translations. So what? Literal translations don't even use the word parable; they use similie or allegory.
I know of no literal translation that use the word simile or allegory (with the sole exception being Paul and Jerusalem above and below)

But parables are easily revealed when the word "parable" is inserted or comparative language is used to describe heavenly things with earthly things like all parables in Matthew use Those comparative words are: "like", "likened unto", "is as" "compared" , "is like" and other words that tell us a comparison is being made.

Jesus is not a sloppy speaker, nor is God careless when He inspired the writers of Scripture. Every time a person normally reads "A certain man" and there is no evidence (words) to connote it is fiction, people naturally assume there was a certain man. God put that in us and He does not violate the rules He imbued in grammar. He created grammar so we can understand each other and communicate effectively. too many brethren in reading the bible have seemed to toss out common grammar to redefine the bible as it is written.

If Jesus said, "there was a certain man" One must present cogent evidence to prove that Jesus did not mean what He said!
 

keithr

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Well you quoted exclusively from the WEB to make your case.
So if I had quoted exclusively from the KJV would you condemn me for using that translation too?

I know of no literal translation that use the word simile or allegory (with the sole exception being Paul and Jerusalem above and below)
Okay, I'll do the work for you. Here's just one example:

Matthew 13:18 (KJV):
(18) Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.​
Matthew 13:18 (YLT - Young's Literal Translation)
(18) 'Ye, therefore, hear ye the simile of the sower:​
Matthew 13:18 (LSV - Literal Standard Version):
(18) You, therefore, hear the allegory of the sower:​

If Jesus said, "there was a certain man" One must present cogent evidence to prove that Jesus did not mean what He said!
Matthew 13:3 (KJV):
(3) And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;​
Luke 13:6 (KJV):
(6) He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.​

Jesus was telling a fictional story, he was not referring to an actual person - he was not a journalist reporting on an actual event, or spreading gossip. Similarly, when he said "a certain rich man" in Luke 16 he was not referring to an actual real person - it was just a fictional story.

Here's an extract from an article from a website that no longer exists, that I picked up 24 years ago:

The Rich Man and Lazarus​
Luke 16:19-31​

It is evident from the whole setting of this passage that it is a parable.​
Otherwise the logical lesson to be drawn from it is that unless we are poor​
beggars, full of sores, we will never enter eternal bliss; and that future​
torment will be our portion if we happen to wear fine linen and purple and fare​
sumptuously every day. And, if taken literally, those who are poor are taken,​
not to heaven, but to Abraham's bosom. However, the context of this passage​
shows that Christ in this parable was teaching a great dispensational truth,​
namely, the change of favor from the Mosaic Law Covenant to the Covenant of​
faith. (Luke 16:16-18; Galatians 3:6-29) If you read carefully the 32nd​
chapter of Deuteronomy, you will see that Jesus was merely repeating in vivid​
pictorial language what Moses had already said. See particularly verses 20 to​
29; and also Paul's quotation of the 21st verse in Romans 10:19, where he shows​
that Moses' prophecy referred to the overthrow of Israel consequent upon Jesus'​
rejection of that nation.​
Jesus was evidently drawing upon something that was in the real world, the
apostate Jewish belief which blended the Grecian philosophies into the Bible.
The Jewish leaders knew of these beliefs and it was the Jewish leaders that he
was addressing. He used their own beliefs, not to condone their apostate
beliefs, but to illustrate the change he had just spoken of: "The law and the
prophets were until John." -- Luke 16:16.
Some other reasons that this story should be viewed as a parable:​
To think that Jesus was supporting the idea of eternal roasting after death by​
use of this parable is contrary to God's justice, for justice demanded the​
forfeiture of man's life for sin (Genesis 2:17), for "the wages of sin is​
death" (Romans 6:23), and of God it is said (Psalm 145:20): "all the wicked​
will he destroy." Therefore, it would be an infraction of God's justice for him​
to preserve the wicked and eternally torture them.​
Additionally, such a conclusion violates God's wisdom, for wisdom devises plans​
which useful ends are attained. There is surely no useful purpose in keeping​
the rich man eternally in a place of torture.​
Of course, the parable says nothing about Lazarus remaining in hades for​
eternity, but as Revelation 20:13 shows, all in hades will be brought back for​
the judgment day, and then hades will be destroyed in the lake of fire. --​
Revelation 20:14; See also Hosea 13:14.​
If the Rich Man were in literal flames in hades, this could contradict the​
entire testimony of the rest of the Bible, which shows that sheol/hades is​
nothingness, oblivion, silence, destruction. -- Ecclesiastes 9:10; Psalm 6:5;​
115:17; 146:3,4; Isaiah 38:18; 63:16; Job 14:21; etc. This has been shown​
throughout this publication.​
(Psalms 146:4) His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.​
It would contradict God's stated purpose to bless mankind. -- Genesis 12:1-3.​
It would contradict the ransom, which is clearly taught, for example, in 1​
Corinthians 15:3,21,22, Hebrews 2:9; 1 Timothy 2:6, which scriptures teach that​
Christ died (not suffered eternal torment) for our sins according to the​
Hebrew scriptures. The prophecy of Isaiah 53:4-12 shows that our Lord would​
bear our penalty (which is death -- Genesis 2:17; Romans 6:23 -- not eternal​
torment), pouring out his soul to death. The effect of this ransom is to be the​
salvation of all men, not the eternal torture of the vast majority. (1 Timothy​
4:10; 1 John 2:2)​
 
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