I was saying Rev 5:10 was that the believing remnant of Israel ....they were the church Paul persecuted
True Israel is the believing remnant of faith
Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture
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I am not inclined to get into a book I have not studied extensively
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
I have found some material to review in regard to the seven churches so if you are inclined, I will possibly be able to resume our topic
I thought about our discussion about John saying us:..................[Rev 1:5-6 KJV] 5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
John was an Israelite so could easily say US also he said he was their brethren in Rev 1:9
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
I completely disagree as I've already indicated multiple times. The "us" would include John himself and those he was writing to which were Jew and Gentile believers in seven churches that existed in the province of Asia at that time.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
So, I guess context means nothing to you. Doesn't matter to you if He was talking about going to heaven bodily or not.
I must not be understanding you......are you saying that John is saying that he is part of the seven churches which includes Gentile believers?
I say he is saying that he is brethren to the Israel believers facing the tribulation
I just got what you are saying....upon his resurrection his spirit went to God....his body went to heaven upon his ascension ....I have to look into this.....my thinking is he would sit on the right hand in heaven after his ascension
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
No, I'm saying that "us" includes himself and all of those he was writing to, which were the seven churches that included Gentile believers.
That's not who he was writing to, though, so how can they be the "us" that he was referring to? The "us" would include him and the ones he was writing to. It can include other believers as well, but has to include those he was writing to.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Not quite. Upon His death His spirit went to God because He committed His spirit to God upon His death.
Luke 23:46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.
Correct. So, you need to differentiate between His spirit and body.
No. New covenant Christians - the only elect existing today. Hello!
It is time to abandon your Judaizing.
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It could well be the seven churches included Gentiles but that doesnt negate them being a Jewish church (believing remnant).........only the remnant can say they are kings and priests
As far I can determine so far only 3 of the 7 churches can be verified historically so it is kinda speculation to say anything about their makeup
What verse do you say upholds saying they were composed of Gentiles
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
I don't know what you're talking about. Nothing in scripture says that.
There is other historical evidence out there regarding those churches. I gave you a link to one of them. Do some research on this.
The churches were not located in Israel, they were located in the Roman province of Asia which was Gentile territory. Clearly, there would be Gentiles attending those churches.
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It could well be the seven churches included Gentiles but that doesnt negate them being a Jewish church (believing remnant).........only the remnant can say they are kings and priests;''''''''''''''''''this is what I said
You say the 7 churches were composed of Gentiles fine but I am saying they could all be primarily Jewish
They say they are kings and priests in Rev 1:6............[Exo 19:5-6 KJV] 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth [is] mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.............................this was said to the children of Israel.......so it is more likely to be Jewish churches since Gentiles cant say they are kings and priests
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Why would that be the case in a Gentile location? But, even "primarily Jewish" churches would at least include a few Gentiles. So, there is no basis whatsoever for thinking that there were no Gentile believers in those churches in those Gentile locations.
That passage does NOT say Gentiles can't be kings and priests. Have you never read the New Testament? Gentile believers have been brought together as one with Jewish believers by the blood of Christ (Ephesians 2:11-22) as "fellow citizens" and "fellow heirs", so the promises made to Israel apply to Gentile believers as well. This is taught throughout the New Testament.
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