Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture

[Spiritual Israelite]

[Jhn 20:16-17 KJV] 16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.

After his resurrection Christ told Mary he wasn't ascended yet

[Luk 24:51 KJV] 51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

This is when he ascended

That is only in relation to His BODILY ascension and has nothing to do with His spirit. He committed His spirit to the Father upon His death, so His spirit went to heaven before He ascended there bodily. His spirit reunited with His body when His body was resurrected and He later bodily ascended to heaven. You repeatedly miss the context of scripture. Please ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7).

 

[Doug]

What does that mean? Do you believe there is no such thing as the church?

How do you interpret this passage:

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

What does that mean? Do you believe there is no such thing as the church?

I was saying Rev 5:10 was that the believing remnant of Israel ....they were the church Paul persecuted

How do you interpret this passage:

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

True Israel is the believing remnant of faith

 

[Doug]

That is correct, so do you think maybe in places where you think it's talking about national Israel it might be talking about the Israel of God that consists only of those who have faith instead, including Jew and Gentile believers?

the remnant includes believing Jew an Gentile

 

[Doug]

John is not talking to Israel in Revelation 1:5-6, he was talking to those who were in churches consistent of Jew and Gentile believers in the ancient Roman province of Asia. That Roman province doesn't even exist anymore, so how could he have been writing to future churches? You couldn't possibly be more off base about this if you tried.

Look at the tense being used in the verse. It's present tense. Jesus "HAS MADE" them kings and priests" as of the time John wrote the book.

As for what you said about Rev 1:1, did you not read this verse...

Revelation 1:19 Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later.

I am not inclined to get into a book I have not studied extensively

 

[Doug]

That is correct, so do you think maybe in places where you think it's talking about national Israel it might be talking about the Israel of God that consists only of those who have faith instead, including Jew and Gentile believers?

I would need scriptures to comment

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I am not inclined to get into a book I have not studied extensively

What do you mean by this?

 

[Doug]

That is only in relation to His BODILY ascension and has nothing to do with His spirit. He committed His spirit to the Father upon His death, so His spirit went to heaven before He ascended there bodily. His spirit reunited with His body when His body was resurrected and He later bodily ascended to heaven. You repeatedly miss the context of scripture. Please ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7).

If he said he wasn't resurrected yet then he wasn't in any fashion

 

[Doug]

What do you mean by this?

not getting into Revelation anymore...any other topic

 

[Doug]

What do you mean by this?

I have found some material to review in regard to the seven churches so if you are inclined, I will possibly be able to resume our topic

I thought about our discussion about John saying us:..................[Rev 1:5-6 KJV] 5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

John was an Israelite so could easily say US also he said he was their brethren in Rev 1:9

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I have found some material to review in regard to the seven churches so if you are inclined, I will possibly be able to resume our topic

I thought about our discussion about John saying us:..................[Rev 1:5-6 KJV] 5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

John was an Israelite so could easily say US also he said he was their brethren in Rev 1:9

I completely disagree as I've already indicated multiple times. The "us" would include John himself and those he was writing to which were Jew and Gentile believers in seven churches that existed in the province of Asia at that time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If he said he wasn't resurrected yet then he wasn't in any fashion

So, I guess context means nothing to you. Doesn't matter to you if He was talking about going to heaven bodily or not.

 

[Doug]

I completely disagree as I've already indicated multiple times. The "us" would include John himself and those he was writing to which were Jew and Gentile believers in seven churches that existed in the province of Asia at that time.

I must not be understanding you......are you saying that John is saying that he is part of the seven churches which includes Gentile believers?
I say he is saying that he is brethren to the Israel believers facing the tribulation

 

[Doug]

So, I guess context means nothing to you. Doesn't matter to you if He was talking about going to heaven bodily or not.

I just got what you are saying....upon his resurrection his spirit went to God....his body went to heaven upon his ascension ....I have to look into this.....my thinking is he would sit on the right hand in heaven after his ascension

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I must not be understanding you......are you saying that John is saying that he is part of the seven churches which includes Gentile believers?

No, I'm saying that "us" includes himself and all of those he was writing to, which were the seven churches that included Gentile believers.

I say he is saying that he is brethren to the Israel believers facing the tribulation

That's not who he was writing to, though, so how can they be the "us" that he was referring to? The "us" would include him and the ones he was writing to. It can include other believers as well, but has to include those he was writing to.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I just got what you are saying....upon his resurrection his spirit went to God....

Not quite. Upon His death His spirit went to God because He committed His spirit to God upon His death.

Luke 23:46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.

his body went to heaven upon his ascension ....I have to look into this.....my thinking is he would sit on the right hand in heaven after his ascension

Correct. So, you need to differentiate between His spirit and body.

 

[WPM]

I must not be understanding you......are you saying that John is saying that he is part of the seven churches which includes Gentile believers?
I say he is saying that he is brethren to the Israel believers facing the tribulation

No. New covenant Christians - the only elect existing today. Hello!

It is time to abandon your Judaizing.

 

[Doug]

No, I'm saying that "us" includes himself and all of those he was writing to, which were the seven churches that included Gentile believers.

It could well be the seven churches included Gentiles but that doesnt negate them being a Jewish church (believing remnant).........only the remnant can say they are kings and priests

As far I can determine so far only 3 of the 7 churches can be verified historically so it is kinda speculation to say anything about their makeup

What verse do you say upholds saying they were composed of Gentiles

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It could well be the seven churches included Gentiles but that doesnt negate them being a Jewish church (believing remnant).........only the remnant can say they are kings and priests

I don't know what you're talking about. Nothing in scripture says that.

As far I can determine so far only 3 of the 7 churches can be verified historically so it is kinda speculation to say anything about their makeup

There is other historical evidence out there regarding those churches. I gave you a link to one of them. Do some research on this.

What verse do you say upholds saying they were composed of Gentiles

The churches were not located in Israel, they were located in the Roman province of Asia which was Gentile territory. Clearly, there would be Gentiles attending those churches.

 

[Doug]

No. New covenant Christians - the only elect existing today. Hello!

It is time to abandon your Judaizing.

what verse upholds this

 

[Doug]

I don't know what you're talking about. Nothing in scripture says that.

It could well be the seven churches included Gentiles but that doesnt negate them being a Jewish church (believing remnant).........only the remnant can say they are kings and priests;''''''''''''''''''this is what I said

You say the 7 churches were composed of Gentiles fine but I am saying they could all be primarily Jewish

They say they are kings and priests in Rev 1:6............[Exo 19:5-6 KJV] 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth [is] mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.............................this was said to the children of Israel.......so it is more likely to be Jewish churches since Gentiles cant say they are kings and priests