The 6th seal great tribulation

tailgator · Jan 7, 2025

Douggg said:
I think you are having a hard time acknowledging that the Jews were worshiping God in the temple.

If you say that is what they did.I don't think Jesus saw it that way

John 4
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Like I said.The Maccabees did not have the spirit of God and did not know God .God is spirit and they that worship him must worship in spirit. The Maccabees and the Pharisees did not worship in spirit because they did not have the spirit.
They were not true worshipers of God.

Bladerunner · Feb 12, 2025

tailgator said:
The great tribulation of the sixth seal is the time of the wrath of God.It takes place after the persecution of the saints in the 5th seal.

The saints are instructed in the testimony of Jesus and the word of God to warn the people of God's coming judgement .Much like John the Baptist became a watchman warning the people to repent.If you remember,John was beheaded .
The saints warn against worshiping the beast ,it's image and receiving its mark .They testify of Jesus and are killed for these reasons.

In all accounts ,the persecution comes first ,followed by the great tribulation and the wrath of God upon all them who rejected the gospel .

Revelation 6
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

The church from the nations does not suffer the wrath of God but are delivered out of the sixth seal great tribulation.

Revelation 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

According to Biblical Records, the "Great Tribulation / Jacob's Trouble "will not begin until the 2nd half of Daniel's 70th week.

Jay Ross · Feb 12, 2025

Bladerunner said:
According to Biblical Records, the "Great Tribulation / Jacob's Trouble "will not begin until the 2nd half of Daniel's 70th week.

Does not the tribulation include Gog and MaGog marching all over the earth killing the saints before the Beast from the abyss rises up surrounds Jerusalem and kills God's two witnesses for God. Perhaps the tribulation started shortly after the Bottomless pit was unlocked releasing the judged, Kings of the Earth, the Beast, the False Prophet and Satan all around the same time with the final steps of their judgement and punishment occurring near Jerusalem.

Scott Downey · Feb 13, 2025

Rev6, sixth seal is on the Last Day as Christ has appeared coning on the clouds with great power and authority and every eye is seeing
Him. It is a DAY, not a week or a time, it is the Day of the Lord, the Day of Christ and it the resurrection of the dead and the rapture.

Stars fall, earth is warping, the creation is falling apart. It is the last day. Jesus uses the same kinds of words in the gospels.
Sure would be frightening to see if you are not believing in Christ, cause His return is you doom and judgement day
But for believers it is our salvation from that evil age and wicked generation.

Rev 6
12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and [g]behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the [h]moon became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky [i]receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, [j]the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Matthew 24:29
The Coming of the Son of Man

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Heb 9
24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are [k]copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

1 Peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance [b]incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been [c]grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not [d]seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

Scott Downey · Feb 13, 2025

23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.
27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

All the wicked will be taken away by angels and cast out of His kingdom into the lake of fire, the righteous will remain with the Lord and inherit all things
Those slain of the Lord shall be many.

tailgator · Feb 13, 2025

Bladerunner said:
According to Biblical Records, the "Great Tribulation / Jacob's Trouble "will not begin until the 2nd half of Daniel's 70th week.

According to Daniels prophecy,the great tribulation is found n Daniel 12:1.

Davidpt · Feb 13, 2025

tailgator said:
According to Daniels prophecy,the great tribulation is found n Daniel 12:1.

Exactly. So much for great tribulation to be involving the first century and 70 AD like some falsely teach. Daniel 12:2 undeniably proves it can't fit that era of time.
But that doesn't mean I agree it's during the 6th seal. My view is that it is during the 5th seal. The 6th seal is God's wrath, the day of the Lord. According to Matthew 24:29, God's wrath, the day of the Lord, follows immediately after great tribulation. Surely Jesus knew what He was talking about when He said that. Can't imagine Him having been incorrect about that.

tailgator · Feb 13, 2025

Davidpt said:
Exactly. So much for great tribulation to be involving the first century and 70 AD like some falsely teach. Daniel 12:2 undeniably proves it can't fit that era of time.
But that doesn't mean I agree it's during the 6th seal. My view is that it is during the 5th seal. The 6th seal is God's wrath, the day of the Lord. According to Matthew 24:29, God's wrath, the day of the Lord, follows immediately after great tribulation. Surely Jesus knew what He was talking about when He said that. Can't imagine Him having been incorrect about that.

The 5th seal is opened about 42 months before the great tribulation in Daniel 12:1.

You can understand this because the persecution of the saints takes place after the 5th seal is opened .

5th seal is opened.
Revelation 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

This persecution in revelation 6:11 corresponds to the persecution in Daniel 11:33 which begins after the arrival of the king of the norths armed forces(the second beast)in Israel.

Daniel 11:33-35
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere
And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.

tailgator · Feb 13, 2025

Davidpt said:
Exactly. So much for great tribulation to be involving the first century and 70 AD like some falsely teach. Daniel 12:2 undeniably proves it can't fit that era of time.
But that doesn't mean I agree it's during the 6th seal. My view is that it is during the 5th seal. The 6th seal is God's wrath, the day of the Lord. According to Matthew 24:29, God's wrath, the day of the Lord, follows immediately after great tribulation. Surely Jesus knew what He was talking about when He said that. Can't imagine Him having been incorrect about that.

PS
Jesus didn't say the day of the Lord was after the great tribulation.

He said the stars of heaven fall after the tribulation.Not great tribulation.
They are two separate things.

The tribulation Jesus was speaking about is the persecution which takes place after the 5th seal is opened.

The great tribulation which takes place 42 months after the tribulation begins takes place after the king of the north goes forth to destroy and utterly annihilate everything he can in the middle east in Daniel 11:44.He uses nuclear weapons which is called the abomination that causes desolation in scripture .In other words ,the United States will use a huge amount of nuclear weapons to destroy everything from Iran to Egypt.The US will nuke all the countries that have attacked Israel and the US.

The king of the north and his armed forces in Daniel 11:44 is what causes the heavens to depart from the earth like a scroll being rolled together in revelation 6.

Scott Downey · Feb 13, 2025

tailgator said:
PS
Jesus didn't say the day of the Lord was after the great tribulation.

He said the stars of heaven fall after the tribulation.Not great tribulation.
They are two separate things.

The tribulation Jesus was speaking about is the persecution which takes place after the 5th seal is opened.

The great tribulation which takes place 42 months after the tribulation begins takes place after the king of the north goes forth to destroy and utterly annihilate everything he can in the middle east in Daniel 11:44.He uses nuclear weapons which is called the abomination that causes desolation in scripture .In other words ,the United States will use a huge amount of nuclear weapons to destroy everything from Iran to Egypt.The US will nuke all the countries that have attacked Israel and the US.

The king of the north and his armed forces in Daniel 11:44 is what causes the heavens to depart from the earth like a scroll being rolled together in revelation 6.

Oh yes he does, in Mark 13, 'after that tribulation' which one? the great one.

Mark 13

New King James Version

Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple

1 Then as He went out of the temple, one of His disciples said to Him, “Teacher, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!”
2 And Jesus answered and said to him, “Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone shall be left upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, 4 “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?”
5 And Jesus, answering them, began to say: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 6 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and will deceive many. 7 But when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be troubled; for such things must happen, but the end is not yet. 8 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be earthquakes in various places, and there will be famines [a]and troubles. These are the beginnings of [b]sorrows.
9 “But watch out for yourselves, for they will deliver you up to councils, and you will be beaten in the synagogues. You will [c]be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony to them. 10 And the gospel must first be preached to all the nations. 11 But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, [d]or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. 12 Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 13 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who [e]endures to the end shall be saved.

The Great Tribulation

14 “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ [f]spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let him who is on the housetop not go down into the house, nor enter to take anything out of his house. 16 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 17 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 18 And pray that your flight may not be in winter. 19 For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be. 20 And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days.
21 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘Look, He is there!’ do not believe it. 22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the [g]elect. 23 But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.

The Coming of the Son of Man

24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His [h]elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

tailgator · Feb 13, 2025

Scott Downey said:
Oh yes he does, in Mark 13, 'after that tribulation' which one? the great one.

Mark 13

New King James Version

Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple
1 Then as He went out of the temple, one of His disciples said to Him, “Teacher, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!”
2 And Jesus answered and said to him, “Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone shall be left upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, 4 “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?”
5 And Jesus, answering them, began to say: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 6 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and will deceive many. 7 But when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be troubled; for such things must happen, but the end is not yet. 8 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be earthquakes in various places, and there will be famines [a]and troubles. These are the beginnings of [b]sorrows.
9 “But watch out for yourselves, for they will deliver you up to councils, and you will be beaten in the synagogues. You will [c]be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony to them. 10 And the gospel must first be preached to all the nations. 11 But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, [d]or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. 12 Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 13 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who [e]endures to the end shall be saved.

The Great Tribulation
14 “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ [f]spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let him who is on the housetop not go down into the house, nor enter to take anything out of his house. 16 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 17 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 18 And pray that your flight may not be in winter. 19 For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be. 20 And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days.
21 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘Look, He is there!’ do not believe it. 22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the [g]elect. 23 But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.

The Coming of the Son of Man
24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His [h]elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

This does not say great tribulation.
It says tribulation.

The Coming of the Son of Man

24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His [h]elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

tailgator · Feb 13, 2025

John was in tribulation when he was on the island of Patmos.

Revelation 1
9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

John was in tribulation.
But John was not in the great tribulation which takes place after the United states goes forth to destroy all of its enemies in Daniel 11:44.

Daniel 11;44
But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many.

Davidpt · Feb 13, 2025

tailgator said:
PS
Jesus didn't say the day of the Lord was after the great tribulation.

Granted, He didn't mention the day of the Lord, of course. But that doesn't matter since He didn't need to. The day of the Lord is associated with a time of darkness, exactly what Matthew 24:29 is depicting.

Compare the following, for example.

Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Compared with.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Let's break it down even further.

the sun be darkened(Matthew 24:29)---the sun shall be darkened in his going forth(Isaiah 13:9)

and the moon shall not give her light(Matthew 24:29)---and the moon shall not cause her light to shine(Isaiah 13:9)

and the stars shall fall from heaven(Matthew 24:29)---the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light(Isaiah 13:9)And that's what would happen if they are falling, they would go dark.

BTW, none of this meaning in the literal sense, yet that is beside the point. Everything that Jesus mentioned in Matthew 24:29 are the very same things Isaiah 13:9-10 connects with the day of Lord. No way can that just be a coincidence.

Almost forgot, I guess I better include the following verse as well.

Isaiah 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken(Matthew 24:29)---Therefore I will shake the heavens(Isaiah 13:13)

Based on all of this if you still insist that the day of the Lord is not during the 6th seal, therefore, making great tribulation being during the 5th seal, this means you are placing your interpretation above the words of prophets in the OT, Isaiah in this case, and above the words of Jesus in the NT. As if you somehow have greater insight into these things than they did.

tailgator · Feb 13, 2025

Davidpt said:
Granted, He didn't mention the day of the Lord, of course. But that doesn't matter since He didn't need to. The day of the Lord is associated with a time of darkness, exactly what Matthew 24:29 is depicting.

Compare the following, for example.

Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Compared with.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Let's break it down even further.

the sun be darkened(Matthew 24:29)---the sun shall be darkened in his going forth(Isaiah 13:9)

and the moon shall not give her light(Matthew 24:29)---and the moon shall not cause her light to shine(Isaiah 13:9)

and the stars shall fall from heaven(Matthew 24:29)---the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light(Isaiah 13:9)And that's what would happen if they are falling, they would go dark.

BTW, none of this meaning in the literal sense, yet that is beside the point. Everything that Jesus mentioned in Matthew 24:29 are the very same things Isaiah 13:9-10 connects with the day of Lord. No way can that just be a coincidence.

Almost forgot, I guess I better include the following verse as well.

Isaiah 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken(Matthew 24:29)---Therefore I will shake the heavens(Isaiah 13:13)

Based on all of this if you still insist that the day of the Lord is not during the 6th seal, therefore, making great tribulation being during the 5th seal, this means you are placing your interpretation above the words of prophets in the OT, Isaiah in this case, and above the words of Jesus in the NT. As if you somehow have greater insight into these things than they did.

Your missing the whole point

John was not in the great tribulation.
He was in tribulation.

There is a difference between the tribulation when saints are killed and the great tribulation when unsaved people are being consumed by the hundreds of millions

The day of the Lord is great tribulation.That is the day the United states uses it's nukes against its enemies

Scott Downey · Feb 13, 2025

tailgator said:
This does not say great tribulation.
It says tribulation.

The Coming of the Son of Man
24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His [h]elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

You must know it is the same story as Matthew 24

Jesus does say the very same tribulation is being taught

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days

The Great Tribulation

15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

The Coming of the Son of Man

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

tailgator · Feb 13, 2025

Davidpt said:
Granted, He didn't mention the day of the Lord, of course. But that doesn't matter since He didn't need to. The day of the Lord is associated with a time of darkness, exactly what Matthew 24:29 is depicting.

Compare the following, for example.

Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Compared with.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Let's break it down even further.

the sun be darkened(Matthew 24:29)---the sun shall be darkened in his going forth(Isaiah 13:9)

and the moon shall not give her light(Matthew 24:29)---and the moon shall not cause her light to shine(Isaiah 13:9)

and the stars shall fall from heaven(Matthew 24:29)---the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light(Isaiah 13:9)And that's what would happen if they are falling, they would go dark.

BTW, none of this meaning in the literal sense, yet that is beside the point. Everything that Jesus mentioned in Matthew 24:29 are the very same things Isaiah 13:9-10 connects with the day of Lord. No way can that just be a coincidence.

Almost forgot, I guess I better include the following verse as well.

Isaiah 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken(Matthew 24:29)---Therefore I will shake the heavens(Isaiah 13:13)

Based on all of this if you still insist that the day of the Lord is not during the 6th seal, therefore, making great tribulation being during the 5th seal, this means you are placing your interpretation above the words of prophets in the OT, Isaiah in this case, and above the words of Jesus in the NT. As if you somehow have greater insight into these things than they did.

Revelation 1
9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

If you want to believe John was in the great tribulation because he said he was in tribulation .Then lol can't help you.
I'm trying to tell you there is a difference between the tribulation and the great tribulation.

Bladerunner · Feb 13, 2025

tailgator said:
According to Daniels prophecy,the great tribulation is found n Daniel 12:1.

which prophecy was that. Jesus tells us in Mat 24: 21.."For then shall be great tribulation," the beginning of the Bowl Judgements or the 2nd 3.5 years of Daniel's 70th week.

Bladerunner · Feb 13, 2025

Jay Ross said:
Does not the tribulation include Gog and MaGog marching all over the earth killing the saints before the Beast from the abyss rises up surrounds Jerusalem and kills God's two witnesses for God. Perhaps the tribulation started shortly after the Bottomless pit was unlocked releasing the judged, Kings of the Earth, the Beast, the False Prophet and Satan all around the same time with the final steps of their judgement and punishment occurring near Jerusalem.

There are three main judgements. The Seals beginning in Rev 6 continuing until Rev chapter 8, Here the Trumpet judgements begin and end in Rev 11:15....This begins the Bowl Judgements that last until the seventh bowl is poured out in Rev 16:17. Keep in mind that the 7th part of each Judgement, begins the Next Judgement. Jesus called the Bowl Judgements the "great tribulation" as well as calling it "Jacob's troubles." this is the second half of Daniel's 70th week.

Bladerunner · Feb 14, 2025

tailgator said:
Revelation 1
9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus(Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

If you want to believe John was in the great tribulation because he said he was in tribulation .Then lol can't help you.
I'm trying to tell you there is a difference between the tribulation and the great tribulation.

John is telling us in REv 1:9 that He is my Brother of the Church (the Body of Jesus Christ) and in His vision, He is Caught-up (Harpozo)to heaven representing the rapture of the same church. You are right that He will not go through either the 1st half of Daniel's 70th week or 2nd half know as the great Tribulation/Jacob's trouble. 1/4 of the population of the earth (1. 875 Billion people) will die during the Seal Judgements. Another 1/3 of the remaining population (1.875 Billion people) will die during the Trumpet Judgements and all the fish and souls in the sea will die plus an undisclosed number of people dying during the Bowl Judgements. I cannot believe that the death toll of the Bowl Judgements will be any less than the first two resulting in 5.65 Billion people dying during Daniel's 70th week. It is going to be horrendous people. Belief it OR NOT!

tailgator · Feb 14, 2025

Bladerunner said:
which prophecy was that. Jesus tells us in Mat 24: 21.."For then shall be great tribulation," the beginning of the Bowl Judgements or the 2nd 3.5 years of Daniel's 70th week.

Jesus said there would be great tribulation after them in judea see the abomination of desolation from their rooftops or the fields.

That would be the same abomination of desolation John described in revelation 6 causing the earthquake and the sky departing from earth .

The 6th seal great tribulation

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Mark 13 New King James Version ​

Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple​

The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age​

The Great Tribulation​

The Coming of the Son of Man​

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Mark 13​

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New King James Version​

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Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple​

The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age​

The Great Tribulation​

The Coming of the Son of Man​

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The Coming of the Son of Man​

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The Coming of the Son of Man​

The Great Tribulation​

The Coming of the Son of Man​

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