The Coming Rapture

[PinSeeker]

Okay, finishing up; sorry...

The first fold happens before the great tribulation...

We are in the period of tribulation now. And there will be a time of great tribulation at the end of the age.

Paul says in Romans not to be ignorant of the fact that blindness is not removed from part of Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. FACT.......not opinion.

Well, right, but see above.

Again, lack of understanding.

Again, this is your opinion only. I believe the lack of understanding to be yours, but really, it's okay. It's okay. <smile>

The tribulation of those days is the great tribulation which does not begin until the abomination of desolation is set up. FACT......not opinion.

Sure, absolutely, but... See above.

You have lots of opinions that you are unable to provide scriptural support for...

In your opinion. I've offered many throughout this conversation, and spoken to your citations also, so to even say this is... well, quite ridiculous. And in that vein, without going into detail (except for the following), I would speak to the very same scriptures you cite above, particularly Matthew 24 (as I have) and all the passages in Revelation.

Regarding Revelation in particular, I would just briefly say that to sequence all of Revelation chapter by chapter ~ and possibly... not sure if you do this with it or not, but I think so... make it out to be all in the future is a terrible misunderstanding of the visions given to John in that great prophecy. But that is in keeping with how you see these "two separate, one-completely-subsequent-to-the-other harvests," which is not the case. Consistency is not your problem... <smile> But no, what John sees, seven times over, is the unfolding of history up to Christ's return, with each vision progressively focusing more and more on the final outcome, Christ's return itself.

The only thing that either of us can really say about each other is, "you use the scriptural support you use wrongly."

It's time to quit believing what you have been taught and get in the scripture and learn.

Back atcha. Every word here, right back atcha. But... it's okay. <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[The Light]

In the same sense that you and I both have been saved ~ we have been born again of the Spirit ~ and are being saved ~ being kept in faith in the power of the Spirit and will not be lost but raised up on the last day (John 6:39), so is the harvest happening now ~ people are coming to Christ, one by one, over the course of this age ~ and will happen at the end of the age. This is the simultaneous "now and not yet" of the Gospel.

Our tribulation and the wrath of God are two completely different things, The Light.

Agreed.

Through tribulation, as James says, our faith is being tested, so we can "count it all joy when (we) meet trials of various kinds, for (we) know that the testing of (our) faith produces steadfastness..." which will "have its full effect, that (we) may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing" (James 1:2-4).

The tribulation of those days is the great tribulation which will be over before the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal.

The wrath of God we have fled and have our rest in Christ. And this wrath of God will play out in the final Judgment, which will be exacted upon... unbelievers... in the form of the second death ("...the wages of sin is death" ~ Romans 6:23a, "...those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment" ~ John 5:29), where they will dwell under/in this judgment of God for eternity. <shudder> As Paul say, "Jesus delivers us from the wrath to come" (1 Thessalonians 1:10), and "God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ..." (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

The wrath of God is the 7th seal which contains the 7 trumpets and 7 vials of wrath.

 

[The Light]

I showed you the truth and you deny it. That's on you. You have no excuse for rejecting the truth that you have been shown. Where did Jesus say anything about the first fold being part of the first harvest and the other fold being part of the other harvest? Nowhere. You are just making things up while I am backing up my view with scripture. Jesus talked about the first fold and other fold in terms of who are His sheep, not in terms of two harvests.

It's okay. I know that you don't understand there are two harvests. So how could you possibly understand what the two folds are. If you think that a small number of Jews, the elect, that understood Jesus is the Messiah represented a fold of sheep, you are sadly mistaken. The rest of the sheep are blind and will not have their blindness removed until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

This is to provoke the Jews to jealously, when they realize that they missed the first harvest which is the summer harvest.

Jeremaih 8
20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

The first fold that were His sheep were the Jewish believers because He came to save them first before having the gospel preached to His other fold which are Gentile believers. And He made both folds into one fold, which is the church. As Paul said He made both "one new man" and "one body" in "the household of God" (Ephesians 2:11-22).


LOL! Absolutely not. You are delusional. I know that I am correct. 100%.

Two folds become one fold at the 6th seal. This is the great multitude that is in heaven for the marriage supper of the Lamb.

 

[The Light]

So, your understanding of what it means for Israel to be blinded in part is flawed because you falsely think Israel being blinded in part means no one who has been part of the Israel that is blinded has been saved for the past almost 2,000 years.

Excellent false conclusion of what I believe. Also well done setting up that straw man and knocking it down.

Romans 11
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

So your understanding is that a small number of Jews that see Jesus is the Messiah represents one of the two folds. That's an awful SMALL fold.