Born again believers are NOT appointed to God's wrath ( the great tribulation )

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Spiritual Israelite

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Don't flunk your Bible context course.:(

Matthew 24
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Do you ignore the first question they asked? Where do you think Jesus answered that question which related to the timing of the temple buildings being destroyed?

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
 
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MA2444

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Don't be a victim of interpretation by imagination. :laughing:

Matthew 24
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Yes sir this is talking about the end times and great tribulation...then if you keep reading you see that Jesus answered all 3 of the disciples questions. Then in v32 Jesus changes the subject. He's done answering their 3 questions and now He adds more about the rapture. Look:

Matthew 24:32-34
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled..../KJV

The fig tree is symbolic of Israel. Israel put forth leaves on her branches on May 14th 1948, the day that Israel became a nation again. So it is this generation of people born on or after May 14th 1948 that will not pass away before the end takes place. That's right now.

And from there, Jesus leads right into talking about the rapture!
Matthew 24
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come..../KJV

The disciples asked Jesus when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

They did not ask Jesus about the rapture. They asked about end times, the great tribulation, and Jesus answered them! Then because they were of His flock, Jesus gave them extra information by teaching on the rapture which was the important stuff for the disciples to know since the rapture hapeens first.

Read the entire chapter of Matthew 24 two times all the way through. Can't you see that in v32 Jesus changed the subject? He did.

Have you ever looked up "Now then" in the Greek? He grammattically changed the subject. He was done talking about His 2nd coming and was talking about the rapture.
 
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MA2444

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21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The great Tribulation is all about bringing Israel back into a saving knowledge of the Messiah and that they need Him as a nation.

Jesus said He wont come back to them until they cry out (as a Nation!) Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord...!! And the Jews are a stiffnecked people so it takes a great tribulation to shake them out of it.
 

covenantee

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Yes sir this is talking about the end times and great tribulation...then if you keep reading you see that Jesus answered all 3 of the disciples questions. Then in v32 Jesus changes the subject. He's done answering their 3 questions and now He adds more about the rapture. Look:

Matthew 24:32-34
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled..../KJV

The fig tree is symbolic of Israel. Israel put forth leaves on her branches on May 14th 1948, the day that Israel became a nation again. So it is this generation of people born on or after May 14th 1948 that will not pass away before the end takes place. That's right now.

And from there, Jesus leads right into talking about the rapture!
Matthew 24
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come..../KJV

The disciples asked Jesus when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

They did not ask Jesus about the rapture. They asked about end times, the great tribulation, and Jesus answered them! Then because they were of His flock, Jesus gave them extra information by teaching on the rapture which was the important stuff for the disciples to know since the rapture hapeens first.

Read the entire chapter of Matthew 24 two times all the way through. Can't you see that in v32 Jesus changed the subject? He did.

Have you ever looked up "Now then" in the Greek? He grammattically changed the subject. He was done talking about His 2nd coming and was talking about the rapture.
Why not tell us who is the grammatical antecedent/referent of "them", "ye", and "you" in verse 2. Who are "them", "ye", and "you" referring to?

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Yes sir this is talking about the end times and great tribulation...then if you keep reading you see that Jesus answered all 3 of the disciples questions. Then in v32 Jesus changes the subject. He's done answering their 3 questions and now He adds more about the rapture.
How did you come to this conclusion? I see no basis for this claim. He was asked about His coming, right? Is Matthew 24:32-51 not about His second coming? It's mentioned several times there, so how can you try to claim that He changed the subject in verse 32?

Look:

Matthew 24:32-34
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled..../KJV

The fig tree is symbolic of Israel. Israel put forth leaves on her branches on May 14th 1948, the day that Israel became a nation again. So it is this generation of people born on or after May 14th 1948 that will not pass away before the end takes place. That's right now.

And from there, Jesus leads right into talking about the rapture!
Does the rapture not occur at His coming? Of course it does. So, He was answering the question about His second coming in the verses which follow that.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Can you see here that the rapture occurs at "the coming of the Lord"? That is one of the questions the disciples asked Him. What would be the sign of His coming and the end of the age. You can't act as if "the coming of the Lord" referenced in the passage above is some different "coming of the Lord" that the disciples asked Him about in the Olivet Discourse. That doesn't make any sense.

Matthew 24
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come..../KJV

The disciples asked Jesus when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

They did not ask Jesus about the rapture. They asked about end times, the great tribulation, and Jesus answered them! Then because they were of His flock, Jesus gave them extra information by teaching on the rapture which was the important stuff for the disciples to know since the rapture hapeens first.

Read the entire chapter of Matthew 24 two times all the way through. Can't you see that in v32 Jesus changed the subject? He did.
He absolutely did not. How is this coming of the Son of man:

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Different than this one:

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

He was asked about His coming by the disciples. Matthew 24:29-31 is part of that answer and so is Matthew 24:32-25:46.

Have you ever looked up "Now then" in the Greek? He grammattically changed the subject. He was done talking about His 2nd coming and was talking about the rapture.
The rapture occurs at His second coming. Read 1 Thess 4:14-17. Is Paul's reference there to "the coming of the Lord" not the second coming? Of course it is. Paul has the rapture occurring at the second coming in what he said here as well:

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

He referenced His coming and our being gathered to Him as one event there. There is no basis for dividing His second coming and the rapture into two different events.
 
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ewq1938

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The great Tribulation is all about bringing Israel back into a saving knowledge of the Messiah and that they need Him as a nation.

Jesus said He wont come back to them until they cry out (as a Nation!) Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord...!! And the Jews are a stiffnecked people so it takes a great tribulation to shake them out of it.

What happens to the Jews of past generations that died before this happens?
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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What happens to the Jews of past generations that died before this happens?
They're out of luck. They didn't live during the right time period during which God (supposedly) will save Jews just for being Jews. Why He would do that in the future while (supposedly) not doing anything to save them in the past generations is anyone's guess.
 
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The Light

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Don't be a victim of interpretation by imagination. :laughing:

Matthew 24
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Don't be a victim of imagining you have posted all the relevant "THENs'" in your interpretation. :(

Matthew 24
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

False Christs, wars and rumors of the wars, but the end is not yet. Nation shall rise against nation, famines, pestilences and earthquakes.

THEN shall they deliver you up..........................

The verses in Matthew 24 talk about end times and not 70 AD.
 
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The Light

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Do you ignore the first question they asked? Where do you think Jesus answered that question which related to the timing of the temple buildings being destroyed?

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Do you ignore that there is still one stone upon another, and the end of the age has not occurred?
 

GRACE ambassador

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Born again believers are NOT appointed to God's wrath ( the great tribulation ) Pray you be counted worthy to escape= the rapture.
Amen. Better is to pray that the Entire ONE [ no such portion as ]...:
a portion of the faithful, the "five wise virgins,"

...Only ONE Complete Body Of Christ will be prepared For Judgment Upon:


Amen!

Study Rightly Divided.png

Further study For Approval:

Biblical 'Representations' of Twelve and ONE!
 
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Davidpt

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You're always quick to tell someone their interpretation is wrong, but you often fail to give what you think is the correct interpretation. How can you think you should be taken seriously if you just tell someone their interpretation is wrong without telling them what you think the correct interpretation should be?

How do you interpret Luke 17:26-30?

Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

I believe by comparing what will happen on the day He returns to "the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all", He was comparing the scope of what will happen on the day He returns to the scope of what happened in the flood in Noah's day. The scope of the flood was obviously global. And the scope of His return will be global as well. So, when He said "Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed" in relation to the flood in Noah's day, He was saying that just as all unbelievers were killed by the flood, all unbelievers will be killed when He returns.

I believe the reason that Jesus compared the day of His return to "the same day that Lot went out of Sodom" was to indicate what type of destruction will occur when He returns. Just as Sodom was destroyed by fire, Jesus will destroy His enemies by fire when He returns. Why else did He compare the day of His coming to the day Lot went out of Sodom and fire came down and destroyed all who were in Sodom? If you disagree with me about this then you should be able to tell me what you think the correct interpretation of what Jesus said should be.

All I know is, what Jesus said in regards to Noah's day would support no survivors. While what He said in regards to Lot's day would not support no survivors. Why would He then use one example that suports no survivors then use another example that doesn't?

No doubt, there were no survivors left in Sodom and G after that ordeal, except these were not the only sinners on the planet at the time. What about these other sinners on the planet not even in that region at the time? How then does Lot's day prove there are no unsaved survivors remaining? That's all I want to know. That's what I'm questioning. I have no dispute with what happened per Noah's day, thus no unsaved suvivors remaining.

I'm going to think some more about what all you said, because after thinkig about it some more, it could be the answers to some of my questions. I just need more time to think about it. I already read what you said in this post. But even so, I'm just trying to explain in the meantime why I asked that other poster those things to begin with.
 

GISMYS_7

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Who wants to say God's Word is not true??? Read Matthew 24:21 again!!!
LOL!! Yes tribulations every day but NOT the great tribulation that we are told to pray that we be counted worthy to escape=believers are not appointed to the great wrath of God( the great tribulation years. ).= the rapture!
Matthew 24:21
 
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covenantee

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Don't be a victim of imagining you have posted all the relevant "THENs'" in your interpretation. :(

Matthew 24
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

False Christs, wars and rumors of the wars, but the end is not yet. Nation shall rise against nation, famines, pestilences and earthquakes.

THEN shall they deliver you up..........................

The verses in Matthew 24 talk about end times and not 70 AD.
They don't. Who are "you" in verse 9?


The book of Acts gives a complete account of how the disciples were persecuted in the very ways Jesus had predicted. Let us take, for example, Acts 4: "And they laid hands on them [Peter and John], and put them in prison" (verse 3). They were brought before "rulers" (verses 5-7). And it turned into an opportunity to testify. Peter explained that "there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (verse 12). They were given a mouth of wisdom which their adversaries could not gainsay, for the men of the council "marveled" (verse 13). They were then commanded "not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus" (verse 18). As Jesus had said, they were hated for His name's sake.

The same things are seen in Acts 5. Certain authorities "laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison" (verse 18). Later they were brought "before the council" (verse 27) and told to answer for continuing to teach in the name of Jesus (verse 28). Again they had opportunity to testify (verses 29-32). They were "beaten" (verse 40). As they departed from the "council", they rejoiced "that they were counted worthy to suffer for his name"(verse 41).

Or take Acts 6. There arose certain ones of the "synagogue" that disputed with Stephen. "And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spoke" (verses 9,10). Persecution resulted and he was brought into the "council " and questioned (verse 12). Again there was the opportunity to testify, the words of that testimony being given in Acts 7. Stephen was killed for his stand (verses 54-60). Jesus had said that some of them would be killed.

Notice Acts 8. "There was a great persecution against the church." Christians were put in "prison", but the result was that the word was preached (verses 1-4).

In Acts 16, Paul and Silas were beaten and cast into "prison." But it turned into an opportunity to testify and the Philippian jailor and his family were converted as a result (verses 22-34). In Acts 21, persecution resulted in Paul being beaten, brought before rulers, before whom he testified (Acts 22). In Acts 22:19 we read that Christians were "imprisoned and beat in every Synagogue."

In Acts 24, Paul was brought before Felix, the governor, and testified. He was given a mouth of wisdom which his adversaries could not gainsay—though they obtained an orator to speak against him. Paul's words even made Felix to "tremble." In Acts 25 and 26, Paul was brought before king Agrippa, the chief captains, and the principal men of the city. He was given a mouth of wisdom, for Agrippa said to Paul, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian" (verse 28).

Jesus said the disciples would be afflicted, beaten, imprisoned; they would be hated for his name's sake and some would be killed; they would be brought before councils, rulers, and kings, for a testimony; they would be given a mouth of wisdom which their adversaries could not gainsay. Surely these things came to pass in those years—unmistakably fulfilled in every detail.

Ralph Woodrow, Great Prophecies of the Bible
 

The Light

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Who wants to say God's Word is not true??? Read Matthew 24:21 again!!!
LOL!! Yes tribulations every day but NOT the great tribulation that we are told to pray that we be counted worthy to escape=believers are not appointed to the great wrath of God( the great tribulation years. ).= the rapture!
Matthew 24:21
Again. The great tribulation is NOT the wrath of God.

The great tribulation is OVER at the sixth seal. Can you not see that the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal? The sun and moon are darkened, and the stars fall from heaven.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth,
even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

The wrath of God does not begin until the 7th seal is opened. The seventh seal contains the trumpets and vials of wrath.

The great tribulation is the time the world chooses the mark or death. The wrath of God is the Day of the Lord when God brings His vengeance on an unbelieving world.
 
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The Light

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They don't. Who are "you" in verse 9?


The book of Acts gives a complete account of how the disciples were persecuted in the very ways Jesus had predicted. Let us take, for example, Acts 4: "And they laid hands on them [Peter and John], and put them in prison" (verse 3). They were brought before "rulers" (verses 5-7). And it turned into an opportunity to testify. Peter explained that "there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (verse 12). They were given a mouth of wisdom which their adversaries could not gainsay, for the men of the council "marveled" (verse 13). They were then commanded "not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus" (verse 18). As Jesus had said, they were hated for His name's sake.

The same things are seen in Acts 5. Certain authorities "laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison" (verse 18). Later they were brought "before the council" (verse 27) and told to answer for continuing to teach in the name of Jesus (verse 28). Again they had opportunity to testify (verses 29-32). They were "beaten" (verse 40). As they departed from the "council", they rejoiced "that they were counted worthy to suffer for his name"(verse 41).

Or take Acts 6. There arose certain ones of the "synagogue" that disputed with Stephen. "And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spoke" (verses 9,10). Persecution resulted and he was brought into the "council " and questioned (verse 12). Again there was the opportunity to testify, the words of that testimony being given in Acts 7. Stephen was killed for his stand (verses 54-60). Jesus had said that some of them would be killed.

Notice Acts 8. "There was a great persecution against the church." Christians were put in "prison", but the result was that the word was preached (verses 1-4).

In Acts 16, Paul and Silas were beaten and cast into "prison." But it turned into an opportunity to testify and the Philippian jailor and his family were converted as a result (verses 22-34). In Acts 21, persecution resulted in Paul being beaten, brought before rulers, before whom he testified (Acts 22). In Acts 22:19 we read that Christians were "imprisoned and beat in every Synagogue."

In Acts 24, Paul was brought before Felix, the governor, and testified. He was given a mouth of wisdom which his adversaries could not gainsay—though they obtained an orator to speak against him. Paul's words even made Felix to "tremble." In Acts 25 and 26, Paul was brought before king Agrippa, the chief captains, and the principal men of the city. He was given a mouth of wisdom, for Agrippa said to Paul, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian" (verse 28).

Jesus said the disciples would be afflicted, beaten, imprisoned; they would be hated for his name's sake and some would be killed; they would be brought before councils, rulers, and kings, for a testimony; they would be given a mouth of wisdom which their adversaries could not gainsay. Surely these things came to pass in those years—unmistakably fulfilled in every detail.

Ralph Woodrow, Great Prophecies of the Bible
You are dodging the FACTS. We are talking about Matthew 24.

I was very clear...........quoting scripture...........that shows Matthew 24 is talking about the great tribulation being after the beginning of sorrows. In case you are unaware, the beginning of sorrows in Matthew 24 are the 1st 4 seals. None of this has happened.

So your claims that Matthew 24 occurs in 70 AD are in error.
 

covenantee

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You are dodging the FACTS.
So you don't believe that Jesus' discourse with His disciples is a fact, or that the Book of Acts is a fact.

But since both are facts, they convincingly rebut your clear fantasies.

And you ignored the question. Here it is again:

Who are "you" in verse 9?
 

Davy

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For what it is worth, here is my take on the sea and the earth beast. Please also note it is impossible for one to truly get their full and complete interpretation by just providing narratives on two verses only, so please keep that in mind...


Revelation 13:3

3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast.

Revelation 13:3 presents a striking image of the beast: "One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast." One widely accepted view contends this “wound” will occur during the infamous and unscriptural 7 year tribulation period involving a mythical anti-Christ figure at the end of time. Another accepted interpretation views the mortal wound as referring to the events of 1798, when Pope Pius VI was taken prisoner by Napoleon’s forces. This marked the apparent "death" of the papacy’s political power, as it was stripped of its territorial authority and influence over Europe’s rulers. Yet, the healing of the wound symbolizes its remarkable resurgence. By 1929, with the signing of the Lateran Treaty, the Vatican was restored as an independent sovereign state, reestablishing its global presence. Today, the papacy’s influence extends beyond religion, playing a significant role in global politics and diplomacy, fulfilling the prophecy that "the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast."
....

The above is mostly a POLITICAL VIEW especially entertained by ORTHODOX UNBELIEVING JEWS.

Revelation 12:3-4 reveales the VERY FIRST BEAST KINGDOM SYSTEM which happened at Lucifer's original rebellion when he drew a third of the angels ("stars", used as a symbol for angels in Rev.1 by Jesus). That means the seven heads, ten horns, and only 7 crown beast kingdom system happened in the 'old world' when the devil sinned in the beginning.

The Revelation 13:1-2 beast system is a beast kingdom that will encompass the whole earth at the very end of this present world. It will be a REPEAT of Lucifer's original beast kingdom that caused him to fall from heaven, as he declared himself as GOD. The difference with the Rev.13:1 beast though, is that it is to have TEN CROWNS instead of SEVEN like Lucifer's ORIGINAL BEAST 'of old'.

Now those who DO NOT UNDERSTAND this simple matter about the previous existence of a seven crown beast system at Lucifer's original fall, will be in CONFUSION with all sorts of political doctrines against a pope, or even the early Christian Church fathers! etc.

Now here's the QUESTION: just what 'wound' was it that will be HEALED in the last days per Rev.13? The Rev.13:1 ONE-WORLD BEAST KINGDOM WITH 10 CROWNS, OF COURSE!

That is what the "deadly wound" was about, which happened back in the 'old world' when Lucifer first setup that Rev.12:3-4 beast system of only "seven crowns", and GOD ENDED THAT OLD WORLD WHEN LUCIFER ORIGINALLY REBELLED! And that is HOW the "deadly wound" happened, as it involved Lucifer's old beast system he used to try and play GOD with. That is why God's Word in Isaiah 14:12 says Lucifer did weaken the nations. That was about the time of that 'old world', not the end in our world...

Isa 14:12
12
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
KJV

Nations existed back then when Lucifer was originally exalted by God before Lucifer rebelled? YES! That was before Adam and Eve, as those Lucifer reigned over back then were angels on earth, making up nations. May sound fantastic, but that is what that Rev.12:3-4 beast kingdom is pointing to, the time when Lucifer first rebelled in the 'old world' before this present world we are now in.

Thus the healing... of the "deadly wound" will be the SETTING UP AGAIN OF THE DEVIL'S ONE-WORLD BEAST KINGDOM UPON THIS EARTH at the END. (see Revelation 13:11 forward about the "another beast" and the healing of that "deadly wound" upon ONE of that beast's 7 heads. That head will be JERUSALEM.)
 

Davy

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Who wants to say God's Word is not true??? Read Matthew 24:21 again!!!
LOL!! Yes tribulations every day but NOT the great tribulation that we are told to pray that we be counted worthy to escape=believers are not appointed to the great wrath of God( the great tribulation years. ).= the rapture!
Matthew 24:21

Really ought to continue reading what Jesus said there in Matthew 24:29-31, where He was solid that His coming to gather His Church is AFTER... the tribulation of those days.

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV


That above Matt.24 version is about His gathering of the "asleep" saints that Paul mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16.

The Mark 13:24-27 version of the above is about His gathering of the saints still alive on earth on that day, their being "caught up" to Him like Paul also taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

So in reality, what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about Christ's coming and gathering of His Church is A REPEAT OF WHAT LORD JESUS TAUGHT IN HIS OLIVET DISCOURSE!
 

Scott Downey

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All I know is, what Jesus said in regards to Noah's day would support no survivors. While what He said in regards to Lot's day would not support no survivors. Why would He then use one example that suports no survivors then use another example that doesn't?

No doubt, there were no survivors left in Sodom and G after that ordeal, except these were not the only sinners on the planet at the time. What about these other sinners on the planet not even in that region at the time? How then does Lot's day prove there are no unsaved survivors remaining? That's all I want to know. That's what I'm questioning. I have no dispute with what happened per Noah's day, thus no unsaved suvivors remaining.

I'm going to think some more about what all you said, because after thinkig about it some more, it could be the answers to some of my questions. I just need more time to think about it. I already read what you said in this post. But even so, I'm just trying to explain in the meantime why I asked that other poster those things to begin with.

It is all about the focus of God's wrath, at the return of Christ, that focus is the entire unbelieving world.

All are destroyed in both examples as a sign of what will happen to the ungodly unbelieving at the return of Christ as in everyone who does not know God and does not obey the gospel. That is where the focus is occurring, the evil cities, the wicked of Noah's time. So then all those who work evil will be destroyed. If you are not obedient to God, you are one of the sons of disobedience and will die at the return of Christ as you refused repentance and did not believe. They are children of wrath, Christ saves us from the wrath of God to come. The wrath of God comes at Christ's return.

Ephesians 2
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the [a]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Ephesians 5:6
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

Acts 17
30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, “We will hear you again on this matter.” 33 So Paul departed from among them. 34 However, some men joined him and believed, among them Dionysius the Areopagite, a woman named Damaris, and others with them.

2 Thess 1
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [a]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
 

Scott Downey

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Who is saved from the wrath of God to come? Those who like living stones are built up into a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices to God through Jesus Christ. They are the people of God

The ones who are disobedient stumble at the stumbling stone which is Christ. They will be those destroyed.

1 Peter 2
1 Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, 2 as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow [a]thereby, 3 if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

4 Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, 5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,

“Behold, I lay in Zion
A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”

7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,

“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”

8 and

“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”

They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.