High Premise
New Member
Keep up with my post - "Where did Eternal Damnationism Begin" -
The Early Church Fathers On Universal Restoration - Berean Patriot
The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
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The Early Church Fathers On Universal Restoration - Berean Patriot
<<<I don't see anywhere in scripture where God offers us salvation.>>>
Same view. God saves them who He wills. Not offering them salvation, but actually saving them.
<<<Salvation begins and ends with God.>>>
Fully agree.
<<<a person can't believe until God has released that individual from the control of sin. Release comes before faith.>>>
In my view, a fallen unregenerate man can’t believe until God quickens him, gives him knowledge, convicts and persuades him of the truth, and gives him faith that empowers him to trust and believe in Him. And believing, he is released from the control of sin. So, it is my view that release starts at the moment of having faith.
Tong
R2214
Those tons of verses I think you refer to, may well put belief before salvation, in the standpoint of man and in his experience of reality. However, in the standpoint of God, i don’t see that as being the case.
Tong
R2215
Moses’ not entering Canaan, does not mean that he will not get the eternal inheritance that was promised to Abraham and his seed. And that he will is a fact revealed in scriptures. He will be one of those to be raised by Christ unto eternal life at the last day. Hope you did not skip over that fact.
<<<Gods promises to a nation doesn't automatically apply to individuals choices.>>>
We are not talking about promises of God to a nation, but about the promises to Abraham and his Seed, who is Christ.
Also, I have already pointed out that God’s promise depends not on anything nor on anyone for its fulfillment but entirely depends on God, and is of grace.
Tong
R2216
I see zero quotes from the first century, and some of the ones I do see don't necessarily support universalism. Although it is theoretically possible for all to be saved, it's not taught in scripture as likely. Jesus warned about eternal destruction more than anyone else.
Which are one and the same. God promises to ethnic and spiritual Israel are conditional on faith. God could promise abraham to bless him because he knew abraham would have faith. He didn't zap abraham with faith.
wow something we can actually agree about
Jn 3:16 whole world, and who so ever
Jn 1:29 behold the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world! All
Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
Saviour for ALL people!
all, whole world, universal, catholic!
Of course it is!
Jn 3:16
Jn 1:29
Lk 2:10
all, whole world, universal, catholic!
Major covenants!
Adam
(Marriage covenant)
Noah
(Family covenant)
Abraham
(Tribal covenant)
Moses:
(National covenant)
Jesus Christ:
(Universal covenant)
New and eternal covenant founded by Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18
Universal (Catholic)
World universal
Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal)
Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people
Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes way the sins of the world
Jn 3:16 for God so loved the world
1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 Tim 2:5 one mediator
Jn 10:16 One new covenant church
Kingdom
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
the holy Catholic Church
Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
This is idolatry, probably SJW indoctrination at work. God - and those who are righteous - are partial to TRUTH, JUSTICE, FREEDOM & THE WILL OF GOD.
High Premise
New Member
What your trying to say is this -
The translators mistranslated the greek word Aionion to 'Eternal'.
In cases where Paul said "Since the beginning of the aionion", they could not place the word 'Eternal' there, so they put the word, 'World'.
This obvious falsification is so blazingly obvious of intentionally mistranslated Bibles, by the religious pharisees of our day.
Not Sorry, you are guilty of high crimes in Bible interpretation.
BEHOLD, I make ALL THINGS NEW - Rev 21:5 -
Saith the Lord whose MERCY ENDURETH FOREVER.
Should Psalm 136 add verse 27? -
"To the Lord who torments billions for eternity, whose mercy endures forever"
136 O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.
2 O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.
3 O give thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever.
4 To him who alone doeth great wonders: for his mercy endureth for ever.
5 To him that by wisdom made the heavens: for his mercy endureth for ever.
6 To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.
7 To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:
8 The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:
9 The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.
10 To him that smote Egypt in their firstborn: for his mercy endureth for ever:
11 And brought out Israel from among them: for his mercy endureth for ever:
12 With a strong hand, and with a stretched out arm: for his mercy endureth for ever.
13 To him which divided the Red sea into parts: for his mercy endureth for ever:
14 And made Israel to pass through the midst of it: for his mercy endureth for ever:
15 But overthrew Pharaoh and his host in the Red sea: for his mercy endureth for ever.
16 To him which led his people through the wilderness: for his mercy endureth for ever.
17 To him which smote great kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:
18 And slew famous kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:
19 Sihon king of the Amorites: for his mercy endureth for ever:
20 And Og the king of Bashan: for his mercy endureth for ever:
21 And gave their land for an heritage: for his mercy endureth for ever:
22 Even an heritage unto Israel his servant: for his mercy endureth for ever.
23 Who remembered us in our low estate: for his mercy endureth for ever:
24 And hath redeemed us from our enemies: for his mercy endureth for ever.
25 Who giveth food to all flesh: for his mercy endureth for ever.
26 O give thanks unto the God of heaven: for his mercy endureth for ever.
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So, what was Jesus warning us about in all the "hell" passages?
And God casting people out of his presence for not wanting to be in his presence sounds like mercy to me.
The Sheep will Believe !
The Sheep will believe in Christ because they were given to Christ ! Those God before the foundation, gave to His Son, will believe in Him in time. Thats why and the effects of having been given.
Jesus said to some, the reason why you do not believe is because you are not of my Sheep Jn 10:26
26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
So, it stands for reason, those who believe, is because They are of His Sheep. And, its specifically said that He lay down His life for His Sheep Jn 10:11,15
11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
So, its because He laid down His Life for the Sheep, that they believe on Him.
Those therefore who do not believe, because they are not of His Sheep, He did not lay down His life for.
Unbelief in its finality, means Christ did not die for one, and that one will perish for their own sins.
The Sheep will believe in Christ because they were given to Christ ! Those God before the foundation, gave to His Son, will believe in Him in time. Thats why and the effects of having been given.
Jesus said to some, the reason why you do not believe is because you are not of my Sheep Jn 10:26
26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
So, it stands for reason, those who believe, is because They are of His Sheep. And, its specifically said that He lay down His life for His Sheep Jn 10:11,15
11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
So, its because He laid down His Life for the Sheep, that they believe on Him.
Those therefore who do not believe, because they are not of His Sheep, He did not lay down His life for.
Unbelief in its finality, means Christ did not die for one, and that one will perish for their own sins.
What I see is found in scriptures and so is very much relevant. Now, if one can’t see that, it does not mean it is not in scriptures and is irrelevant.
Acts 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
Tong
R2254
God did made a promise to Abraham and his seed. And His promise is sure and is unconditional.
Paul explained that, so that the promise might be sure, it is of faith. So God gave Abraham faith, that he believed in Him, and He made him the father of those who believe, not only of the Jews but also of the Gentiles.
Tong
R2255
Now you change the object, from His chosen people to truth, justice, freedom, & the will of God. Why?
Tong
R2256
Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
The children of Esau, who married children of Cain, migrated to Babylon and when the temple was to be rebuilt the Jews in Babylon were allowed to go to Israel and the children of Esau followed and begin to call themselves Pharisees. That is why they were not of God's sheep.
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