The mark of the beast:

[bbyrd009]

My take on the first beast being wounded, fatally, is to provide a proof that this beast is supernatural, and not just a human, who is to be followed, and furthermore, directed worship to. He's the coming "son" of satan, who they worship and follow.

you are born spiritually alive, you spiritually die, you spiritually resurrect, you spiritually backslide have your right eye and hand offend you, and become seven times worse than you were, etc maybe

 

[bbyrd009]

ps, whenever the Bible says "if..." and you immediately think "thats not me, no sir," then thats you in spades, yeh?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Matthew 26:52-54 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. [53] Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? [54] But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

“..all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword” is important (imo) when considering the mark of the beast.

What is this sword that “...all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.”

1 Samuel 21:8-9 And David said unto Ahimelech, And is there not here under thine hand spear or sword? for I have neither brought my sword nor my weapons with me, because the king's business required haste. [9] And the priest said, The sword of Goliath the Philistine, whom thou slewest in the valley of Elah, behold, it is here wrapped in a cloth behind the ephod: if thou wilt take that, take it : for there is no other save that here. And David said, There is none like that; give it me.

The sword ...taken from the enemy and used to cut off Goliath’s head. Consider “behold, it is here wrapped in a cloth behind the ephod”. “There is none like that; give it me.” Mark 15:45-47
[45] And when he knew it of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph. [46] And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre. [47] And Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses beheld where he was laid.

“behold, it is here wrapped in a cloth behind the ephod:”

Ephod, also spelled Efod, part of the ceremonial dress of the high priest of ancient Israel described in the Old Testament (Ex. 28:6–8; 39:2–5). ... It was not a garment in the ordinary sense, and its association with the sacred lots indicates that the ephod was used for divination.

What is “ephod”. Not good with name significance... @bbyrd009 ?

 

[bbyrd009]

What is “ephod”. Not good with name significance

ah well, Brittanica sayslots were "used for divination" but that is not correct imo, although that doesnt mean that priests didnt do that, either. Lots had a correct use, amd an incorrect one i guess. Anyway, i dont know either, so i would just goto Lex and start digging...
Exodus 28:6 Lexicon: "They shall also make the ephod of gold, of blue and purple and scarlet material and fine twisted linen, the work of the skillful workman.
Strong's Hebrew: 646. אֵפוֹד (ephod) -- an ephod
"robe of approach to God," but i'm noting how Samuel's was "white stuff" and ephods got really showy after that?
זחח | Abarim Publications Theological Dictionary (Old Testament Hebrew)
"blue" (of course) cord
ספף | Abarim Publications Theological Dictionary (Old Testament Hebrew)
which is substantiating another ref on ephod i just read vis "beth," weird, anyway
from a quick scan "ephod" seems to be a divider of a sort--maybe between the holy amd the mundane--a house (beth) of a sort, along with the more literal understanding we have? I could dig deeper but i'm on a train, real slow internet

now, sell your robe comes to mind for some reason

 

[4Jesus]

ha, i still get worse in the afternoon i guess, sorry; guess you made some kinda definitive statement? brb...ya, so, literally speaking, i even like the post ok. I would just maybe avoid "could only be" statements a little more now, as these characterizations of antichrist are all me imo, if you then, being evil and all that?

No sorry needed, I didn't take offense to it - I was just curious why it was rolleye-worthy; if it's rolleye-worthy, it's rolleye-worthy ;)

I did say that, in reference to "the Antichrist", meaning a singular being. If, and I'm not saying I'm right, just how I read things (sorry for any confusion if I left that out, it tends to get old to have to say this in every post - maybe I should just put a disclaimer in every post heading, or the signature (but that's only for those logged in)), there is a singular being that is referenced in "antichrist shall come", wouldn't one of those three beings presumably be the being referenced in the scriptures?

lol, are you saying you're the dragon, the beast, or the second beast of Revelation? If so, then yeah, "antichrist shall come" might be talking about you, lol. But I don't think that of you, perhaps you're in the "many antichrists"...but I'd only agree with you if you're unsure about Jesus Christ these days, because antichrists is not the same as sinners, to me at least - sinners who follow Jesus don't deny Him nor oppose Him, nor think they are Him, nor try to take His place, intentionally.

so fwiw, i dont bother with this too much herenow, but as we are trained to apply all the good sounding vv to ourselves, and the bad sounding ones to um "other," and only bc yall seem quite conscientious, you might do the exact opposite?

I don't think I do - I apply the sinners to myself, that's negative. I don't apply antichrist to myself though, going off the four possible definitions I listed above - don't deny Him, oppose Him, put myself in place of Him, or think of myself as Him. Do I do evil? I try not to. Have I done evil - yeah, which makes me a sinner. But that doesn't negate following Him nor being not opposed to Him.

And, if you like, although i must confess i have gotten very little support on this, but enough from the right quarters, you might also xplore the difference in satan's v the naive dialectic, which i have thought until now was just a way to speak, but i'm realizing is really the way we believers all think (first beast, perhaps)
Luke 11:26 Lexicon: "Then it goes and takes along seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first." (side-note "toilsome" for evil there).

and we'll maybe get into plucking out one's right eye soon here too, which i am terrible at, but at least i know i am lol; you got "rolleyes" bc my right eye offended me, yeh?

Hehe, I was inches to literally cutting off my left hand once, with that idea to "cut off your hand if it causes you to sin". I didn't go through with it ultimately, but had the knife in hand to cut the sucker off. And I tried killing myself once too, so not an eye or hand, but the whole thing - would've happened but I was sloppy about it -darned angel of Death, never around when you need him to be, like a cop, lol.

Please don't get me wrong, I hate as much as I love - mostly myself, my "family", this world, life, even existence sometimes. Sometimes I don't even want to choose Heaven or Hell, sometimes "nothing" sounds better...as Jesus said "better to not have been born at all"...

read this yet? What is the new Jerusalem constructed out of you might start where the discussion bifur...splits, about post 24. fwiw i cover the authors names by blowing up the page, but whatever. Nevermind the info for now, examine the...demeanors? right now. On the way to understanding satans dialectic, hopefully.

I'll check it out, thanks.

 

[4Jesus]

Capital letters pose a problem for translators since the original Greek didn't have them.

Yeah it seems like it's added confusion, rather than helped.

 

[4Jesus]

Does the Dark Side have the power to resurrect the dead?

I thought only God can, but don't know for sure. God could give that power to someone though, or no?

It's the reason, I think, that Michael and Satan argued over the body of Moses, in Jude 1:9 "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."

Of course, that's the only example I know of, and it hasn't been mentioned elsewhere that I remember, so what I just stated could be wrong - perhaps satan wanted Moses body just as a trophy.

I don't get into "powers" too much though, to really know - perhaps God can give that power to someone to accomplish it...

 

[Enoch111]

The Mark of the beast is such a vast topic.

Why would you call it a vast topic? It is restricted to the reign of the Antichrist in the future. It is a literal mark or identification of people who have submitted to his rule, when he control the whole world for 3 1/2 years along with Satan. Revelation 13 is very clear. Today, those who are unsaved and read about this mark should repent and be converted.

 

[101G]

It is a literal mark or identification of people who have submitted to his rule

I can go with the "identification of people who have submitted to his rule", but what is the "literal mark?".
PICJAG.

 

[Giuliano]

Why would you call it a vast topic? It is restricted to the reign of the Antichrist in the future. It is a literal mark or identification of people who have submitted to his rule, when he control the whole world for 3 1/2 years along with Satan. Revelation 13 is very clear. Today, those who are unsaved and read about this mark should repent and be converted.

Everything is clear to you, isn't it?

 

[4Jesus]

And call down fire from Heaven?

So what is meant by this? I see it in Revelation 13, but what does it mean exactly? I've always thought it meant "lightning shooting out of his/her hands", or "lightning from the sky on a sunny day", or even "ball of fire".

The reason why I think the fatal wound occurs, and the beast is healed, to prove he's supernatural, thus deserving of worship, is found in Revelation 13:14-15 "14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."

To me, these supernatural acts are evidence they are "God", and thus worthy of worship. It separates them from the human leaders that all the rest of the humans should worship these supernatural beings instead of other humans.

 

[Giuliano]

I thought only God can, but don't know for sure. God could give that power to someone though, or no?

It's the reason, I think, that Michael and Satan argued over the body of Moses, in Jude 1:9 "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."

Of course, that's the only example I know of, and it hasn't been mentioned elsewhere, so what I just stated could be wrong - perhaps satan wanted Moses body just as a trophy.

I don't get into "powers" too much though, to really know - perhaps God can give that power to someone to accomplish it...

It's something to think about.

 

[bbyrd009]

there is a singular being that is referenced in "antichrist shall come", wouldn't one of those three beings presumably be the being referenced in the scriptures?

well, you say "beings" but note that in the way we define that, that is assumed. Iow we might as easily assume these as spiritual states of "being?"

sinners who follow Jesus don't deny Him nor oppose Him, nor think they are Him, nor try to take His place, intentionally.

hmm. not sure if one can even be a "sinner who follows Jesus..." but anyway, havent you seen all of that, below that, from those who claim to be believers?

lol, are you saying you're the dragon, the beast, or the second beast of Revelation? If so, then yeah, "antichrist shall come" might be talking about you, lol

where is Christ "Revealed" do you think? Imo that should set the frame for interpreting the Book

 

[Giuliano]

So what is meant by this? I see it in Revelation 13, but what does it mean exactly? I've always thought it meant "lightning shooting out of his/her hands", or "lightning from the sky on a sunny day", or even "ball of fire".

The reason why I think the fatal wound occurs, and the beast is healed, to prove he's supernatural, thus deserving of worship, is found in Revelation 13:14-15 "14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."

To me, these supernatural acts are evidence they are "God", and thus worthy of worship. It separates them from the human leaders that all the rest of the humans should worship these supernatural beings instead of other humans.

I read it to mean something similar to Pentecost or when Elijah called fire down.

 

[4Jesus]

well, you say "beings" but note that in the way we define that, that is assumed. Iow we might as easily assume these as spiritual states of "being?"

I hear ya, but, to me, I take it as literal in those verses I quoted, not just a "state of being". If you're not looking at those verses literally, I can see your point.

So then the differentiation we have is, actually, are those verses literal.

hmm. not sure if one can even be a "sinner who follows Jesus..." but anyway, havent you seen all of that, below that, from those who claim to be believers?

lol, that's a larger argument right there, that we could go round and round on. I think there's even a hint of it in that "Calvanism" thread that's recent.

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't think I do - I apply the sinners to myself, that's negative. I don't apply antichrist to myself though, going off the four possible definitions I listed above - don't deny Him, oppose Him, put myself in place of Him, or think of myself as Him. Do I do evil? I try not to. Have I done evil - yeah, which makes me a sinner. But that doesn't negate following Him nor being not opposed to Him.

arg
it is just hard to respond here...when is the last time someone came to you with a personal complaint against you? Matthew 18:15 Lexicon: "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
you dont deny Him, etc, you say, but how might you know this?
for instance--strictly a for-instance, ok, i dont know--
have you say accepted the premise that you might go up to heaven after you have died, become immortal?

 

[4Jesus]

arg
it is just hard to respond here...when is the last time someone came to you with a personal complaint against you? Matthew 18:15 Lexicon: "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
you dont deny Him, etc, you say, but how might you know this?
for instance--strictly a for-instance, ok, i dont know--
have you say accepted the premise that you might go up to heaven after you have died, become immortal?

Geez, my "dad" only criticizes what I do, so every day...lol

Yeah, unfortunately lol...ugh, I gotta live like this for eternity - meaning my bad memories of things that happened to me in this life. lol, yeah, that's not a good thought I live with.

 

[4Jesus]

ps, whenever the Bible says "if..." and you immediately think "thats not me, no sir," then thats you in spades, yeh?

lol, well I've never killed anyone nor raped anyone, so that's at least two that's not me. ;) I've been tempted to kill, sure, but I never acted upon it - it's a hard "no" from me.

 

[bbyrd009]

Sometimes I don't even want to choose Heaven or Hell, sometimes "nothing" sounds better...as Jesus said "better to not have been born at all"...

ha well fwiw imo Jesus was making a rather cryptic statement there, dont be too surprised when the meaning there changes on you...and as for the other, i would suggest that your choices are not those at all, but rather "choose life" or do not? Where did we get this idea that those were actual places?

 

[4Jesus]

ha well fwiw imo Jesus was making a rather cryptic statement there, dont be too surprised when the meaning there changes on you...and as for the other, i would suggest that your choices are not those at all, but rather "choose life" or do not? Where did we get this idea that those were actual places?

From Heaven, lol

I pass on life, personally. But that conflicts with the "eternal life" message, so I just short-out and think "ah, nothing"... ;)