Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[APAK]

Thank you!

Yay!! The best I have ever heard...love it!! :)

I couldn't say it in those words but "within me" believes that...always have, but could not cross to T's or dot the 'i''s as you have here.

An old preacher once said to me..."when you hear something, and it witnesses within and becomes 'life' within you...it is now yours...no need to quote me or anyone else...it is your truth, until or if God shows you something new on it."

So thanks...that is now " mine" :)

Bless you...Helen

Dear, the glory goes all to the Lord, not moi. Praise his name....I'm glad the spirit of God brought you to this....

 

[APAK]

Thank you for your kindness, APAK - but all of this is simply a cop-out.
You won't address these verses because you have no explanation.

BreadOfLife: OK I got your number. Thanks for the conversation. You have my words....

The door is always open to discussing what is really on your mind....and I know it is not me deciphering your scripture...that I can do at any time if you wish....you never answered that question. You have now replaced it, from me saying to you, do you want me to.... to, I won't..' Do you think you are really being truthful?

God Bless

APAK

 

[bbyrd009]

you will be judged by your works, don't let anyone tell you any different;

Little children, do not be deceived

 

[amadeus]

We are heirs at the moment be believe. There is no guarantee that we will remain heirs. We will receive our inheritance at the end of our life.
Ephesians 1:18
18I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,

The HOPE of His glory, the inheritance of His saints...

What is the difference between a steward and an heir? Primarily it would be as you say in what will be ours at the end of the journey. If we are heirs already now and we have not been disinherited before then, then we will become owners. Perhaps how well we do with the responsibilities which are ours according to what we have been given will make a critical difference in our status at the end of the road.

 

[amadeus]

I don't know.
To warn us about the unpleasant place?
Of course, to you this will NOT be important...
But isn't it still better to be with God than to just disappear??

Yes it is better to be with God than just to disappear, but if we cannot hear his voice, do we not have a problem? Some people I believe hear His voice without being always able to definitely identify it. Even as our vision needs to continue to improve as we walk with God so also must our hearing. This means not only hearing Him but also recognizing what we hear as being Him.

 

[amadeus]

you will be judged by your works, don't let anyone tell you any different;

Little children, do not be deceived

But certainly! It is what we do with all that we have been given which will be the basis for our reward or the lack thereof:

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

What have we been given: time, opportunity, brains, experiences, money or no money, education or no education, born with a silver spoon in our mouth or not, born in a very technologically advanced nation or not, etc.

 

[Taken]

And the will of Christ is that we DO the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21).
So, if you don't DO His will - you're not saved.

Yipes man. God desires us to BECOME SAVED. When that is accomplished, it's done.

And AGAIN: The will of Christ is that we DO the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21).
So, if you don't DO His will - you're not saved.

God desires us to BECOME SAVED. When that is accomplished, it's done.

There is only ONE way to salvation and that is through Jesus Christ.
Somebody who rejects Him cannot be saved.

And? Why pretend this is NEWS? That has already been CLEARLY ESTABLISHED!!

In the story of the Gadarene Demoniacs - the DEMONS recognized Jesus as the Son of God (Matt. 8:28-34) - and you could HARDLY refer to a demon as "saved."

What APPLIES to the created heavenly host, does not APPLY to mankind.

The created heavenly host WAS CREATED HOLY!!! WHAT THEY KNOW is irrelevant!
WHAT THEY DO is paramount!
When they choose to STAND AGAINST GOD, they become UNHOLY, and have FALLEN away from Gods Grace.
There is NO SALVATION FOR THEM! They are Damned!

The created earthly host WAS CREATED "VERY GOOD"....NOT holy!.
WHAT they DO is paramount!
They can Become restored to GOOD.
They can Become quickened to HOLY.
Once achieved, By their subjection to the Lord, HIS POWER, restores them, quickens them, and KEEPS THEM FOREVER.
They can ALSO reject being restored or quickened, and become damned.

Your problem again is the cherry-picking of Scripture.
You MUST tall ALL of Scripture in context when formulating doctrine.

Your problem is LACK OF UNDERSTANDING, and knowing who, what, when, why, and how, Scripture APPLIES (ie you call cherry picking, while Scripture calls it DIVIDING THE WORLD OF TRUTH) and to whom, what, when why and how, Scripture DOES NOT APPLY.

Scripture tells us that calling on the name of the Lord will save you (Rom. 10:13).
HOWEVER, it also says that NOT all who call upon his name shall be saved (Matt. 7:21).

Again, YOU LACK UNDERSTANDING....even when EXPRESSLY told to you.

Hey...youhooo....says one man, my mind is made up....I believe, I believe, I believe...
And another man says....oh, oh, oh, me too, I thought, and thought, and thought, and my mind is made up...I too believe, believe, believe.

BIG DEAL!! Such men can proclaim and yap all the want. THE CARNAL MIND of MAN, IS AGAINST GOD!!

And tomorrow those SAME "so called believing" men CAN ALSO MINDFULLY Reject BELIEF!!

It is with the HEART'S BELIFE, that a man SUBJECTS himself to the Lord!!

And ONCE a man does that....all this nilly willy nonsense a MAN can decide to not believe IS FALSE. Because such a man IMMEDIATELY receives a NEW HEART (from the Lord), and a NEW spirit, (from the Lord), that CAN NEVER EVER AGAIN NOT BELIEVE IN THE Lord!!!!!

Scripture says that if you BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ, you will be saved (Acts 16:312).
HOWEVER, it also says that even the DEMONS believe and tremble (James 2:19).

So? Why do you attempt to COMPARE KNOWLEDGE of a man to a created spirit?

Try COMPARING THE TRUTH of a man to the TRUTH of a created spirit.

A created spirit was CREATED HOLY. His falling from Grace, didn't wipe out his KNOWLEDGE,
It wiped out his HOLINESS. They were NOT KEPT HOLY, by Gods Power. They CHOOSE to remain Holy or Fall from holiness.

A created man, GAINS KNOWLEDGE, and must SUBJECT himself TO the Lord, to RECEIVE the Lord Grace to BECOME HOLY!
They ARE KEPT HOLY. By Gods Power.

Salvation is only possible by obedience.

Salvation for a man, is ONLY possible, by the mans belief in his heart, and 'him' choosing to SUBJECT himself TO the Lord.
Is that an act of Obedience? Sure.

DOING

the will of the Father, being Baptized,

Already, covered, when a man subjects himself to the Lord.

The Baptizing is the Lords gift to the subjected man.

works of mercy and charity, following His commandments

Nope. Works gain rewards, not Salvation.
Nope. Following his commandments/ laws, is not, receiving Salvation.

- and believing in Him who saved you.

Already covered, when a mans subjectshimself to the Lord, from the THOUGHTS IN HIS HEART!!

In other words surrendering yourself to His will.

Already covered, when a man subjects himself to the Lord, front he THOUGHTS IN HIS HEART!!

You attempt to EXPAND a man having received Salvation, AS IF, the man has to rely on himself to KEEP himself SAVED....which is False.

Your error is Your quote Scripture of what does apply to a man in Christ, and attempt to compare that to a man, not in Christ, or spirits who have fallen from Grace, and then attempt to argue it with the understanding of your Carnal Mind.

You have not been called to teach Spiritual things according to a mans Carnal Understanding.

You have been called to Subject yourself to the Lord Christ Jesus....and when that is accomplished....YOU are supposed to have realized what Scriptures YOU have fulfilled, by making that choice...and which Scriptures thereafter, DO NO LONGER APPLY TO YOU.

I KNOW, what I have done and fulfilled.
What APPLIES to a man NOT SAVED, NOT BORN AGAIN, does no longer APPLIES TO ME.

Those created of the Heavenly host, be they remain Holy or should they fall from Grace, has NO Application to me whatsoever.
Their "trembling" for knowing the Truth and having had rejected the Truth is their own consequence, NOT MINE! It has no application or effect on me.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[APAK]

It's a learning curve of sorts.

Why do Christians, (who have subjected themselves to Christ), been forgiven....

Continue to claim, (according to the curses OF the law), that they SIN?

Why do Jews (even one in the NT learning about Christ) and (those who have accepted Christ), admonish one another, calling out one another, claiming one has SINNED?

That takes us to... a few things.
ONE -
In the beginning God established for men, what things would be called. Ie genders, man, woman, father, mother, wife, husband, children, oil, gold, plants, animals, trees, etc.

Then we observe, the beginning of teaching, about Spiritual/Heavenly things being taught to mankind; in associative manners.
Meaning what man could see, and words and things that man did understand and was familiar with....being the "TOOL" so to speak, to teach men ABOUT heavenly things, they COULD NOT SEE.

FOR example, WHY is God called the Father?
Did God speak from the Heavens and say, CALL ME THE FATHER? No.
God taught mankind the father, was the Head of his family, his tribe, his kinsmen.
It was Moses, who First connected and called the LORD Father, (after the word father had been used repeatedly being identified as the man, head of his own family), Deut 32:6.

Thereafter, for 4,000 years, the LORD is called and recognized as the Heavenly Father.

So arrive Jesus. Who comes TO Whom? Jews, lost Jews, who have drifted away from ancient teachings.

And, in what manner does God Himself say, what is now 4,000 years Familiar to Jews? (When the Word of God, shall be revealed in the Flesh likeness As a man, TO the Jews) ....

God declares, His own Word, sent forth out of His mouth (Isaiah), to the Earth, SHALL...

Heb 1:5
....I will be to him A FATHER, and he shall be to me A SON.

(God declared it, it is so. Yet we are supposed to further learn the understanding of WHAT GODS WORD WAS, before it was sent to earth in the likeness as a man. Gods Word IS God, and changes not. It spoke to men in the beginning, was revealed in the likeness as a man in the flesh, called the Son, yet is still God, as it was in the beginning, being revealed audibly, in visions, as angels, as men.) Only in the last days was Gods Word call the Fathers Son.)

We have testimony of Paul, thus as he understood, so can we.
Man has internal THOUGHTS.
One is in the MIND,
One is in the HEART.

The mind of man, is where reasoning, logical conclusions, limited knowledge, weighing between right and wrong, guessing, lies and deceit all occur. God does not CHANGE our minds.

The heart of man, is where the mans natural spirit is. Which is his absolute natural Truth, (ie his natural spirit). That is precisely what God searches, for ANY man who subjects himself to Christ.

It is that natural spirit, the Lord "re-births, from the SEED of God. (Unlike the natural spirit that is birthed from the seed of man).
(With also noting, the Lord circumcised that mans heart, thus the man is given a new heart and a new spirit)
Ezekiel 18:31
Ezekiel 36:26

A new pure heart, perfectly made and acceptable for the Spirit of Truth, ie the Spirit of the Lord, ie the Holy Spirit to INDWELL.

And such Holy Spirit comes with HIS TRUTH, teaching a man new spirit, Gods Holy and Pure Truth...in knowledge, in wisdom, in understanding....ACCORDING TO GOD HIMSELF.

And the man? with his same MIND?

The Scriptural teaching IS FOR THE MAN TO subdue his OWN MIND, to the THOUGHTS of his "new heart, new spirit".
Rom 12:2 ...
...by the renewing of YOUR mind....

Paul speaking, many times by using himself as an example....IT"S A STRUGGLE...for a man; having one thought in his MIND, and a completely different thought in his HEART...

Knowing it is righteous to listen to his Heart, over his Mind.....but gee, aren't the urges of the Mind, filled with pleasures, and fun, and excitement, and don't they often gain one worldly possessions, worldly wealth, worldly status??? Sure they can.

But yet IF one continues in LEARNING, they SHOULD find, those Worldly things are TEMPORARY, and the Truth that is ETCHED in the Heart, the Lords WAYS, ARE PERMANENT, and have their own blessings, while a man is still existing on this earth.

POINT BEiNG - Men WANT the SAVING GRACE of God.....but they are reluctant to LEARN, it requires MORE than just RECEIVING. It requires their own participation in MAKING the thoughts of their Heart TRUMP the thoughts of their MIND.

Men walk about claiming; I'm Saved, I'm Born again....but THAT IS TEMPORARY...because I have to HOLD on to it. FALSE. God Saves a man and KEEPS him Saved.

Men walk about claiming; I'm Saved, I'm Born again....but Gods own Word is flawed, that when He forgave....He was to dumb to realize, men would do things that the LAW, calls a sin, thus they call a SIN, and make the Lords Forgiveness MOOT.

And Jesus asks....are you STILL without understanding?

A man who IS SAVED and BORN AGAIN, is a done deal. His Word is faithful and True.

Our job is to get to getting our MINDS thoughts subjected to our HEARTS thoughts,
(Without the curse of sin, while we process this subjection of our minds to our hearts)..

It is WITH one having received FORGIVENESS, and Gods Saving Grace, and Quickened spirit, and the INDWELLING Holy Spirit.....that the man thereafter, IS Equipped, to subdue his own mind to the thoughts of his Heart.......and what he accomplishes....by doing so, is to HAVE a MIND LIKE CHIRST, which is FAVORABLE to God, that a man himself SUBJECTED himself to the Lord, to receive ALL the man needs...

TO become once again IN THE LIKENESS of God......which took the Lord to appear in the LIKENESS of Man to REVEAL to mankind...

HOW TO, become restored, to the Likeness of God.

Because IF you read, Gen 1 & 2.
God created man IN HIS likeness, VERY GOOD.

And if your read, Gen 5, you will find the disobedience of the first man, thwarted, mankind from being in Gods likeness.
Mankind began being born in mans likeness;
And the entire big picture is for man to take advantage of, and once again become in the Lords likeness.....to whit, Jesus taught and Jesus has the Power to MAKE such internal changes in a man, and gives man the Power, to subdue his own mind.

And any man WHO, achieves, to grasp what Jesus taught, and what Jesus gives, is a man WHO, becomes adopted by the Lord, and entitled to be accounted, as a son of God....forever.....wholly and holy made acceptable to God, by the Power of the Lord, for ever.

And FYI, Christ IS the true Light and the Power of God.

God Bless,
Taken

Taken: Maybe I'm missing your point(s)? I do incidentally understand and believe in essence what you have say. You have laid out the parts of the history of the personage of God, the two key components of the inner man/woman and which are used, to be in Christ and, to grow in Christ, quite well.

I just do not see in this writing of you bridging the idea that there were some that performed works under the LAW when it was fulfilled by grace, and works were attached to faith and belief in Christ. Works that are led by the spirit of God, in the heart and not by the natural mind using your style.

See, without explicit scripture support or implicit scripture support of several kinds that must harmonize, at this point I cannot determine anything and come to any conclusion.

Is there a special 'Jew' insert grace by the law in your thinking that is not really substantiated by scripture, and it just a deep logical conclusion of yours? Can you construct a chain of scripture that supports that James was still under the law and was also a believer.....?
Or are you saying that all believers back then were under both the law and grace....??

Take care brother,

APAK

 

[Taken]

Good grief - James was a Jew but wasn't saved by the Law - and neither were his congregation.
The Law no longer applied to James OR his followers because they were in Christ, who FULFILLED the Law.

When James described what true faith was (belief AND works) - he was talking to born again Christians - not practicing Jews.

He was talking to "born again" Christians?

He was talking to Jews. The Jews did not call themselves Christians, nor do they today.

Jesus came to earth AS a Jew, to speak to Lost Jews, and chose Jews as His Disciples, and sent His Jewsih Disciples out to teach other Jews, the GOOD NEWS of HOW TO, become RELEASED from the CURSE of the LAW, and thus SAVED and BORN AGAIN "NOW". Jesus did not TEACH to BECOME A CHRISTIAN!! He taught to TRUST the Word of God has come in the Flesh to TEACH men HOW TO BECOME, saved and born again NOW.

IF you are going to TEACH Spiritual things, STICK to language of Spiritual things that Christ taught!

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

yes, and they will stay muddled, the confusion will remain because it is easier to say "you are not subject to the law" even though one trip at double the speed limit would quickly reveal the truth of that, see, while no one--or at least never the same person who also naively says "you are not subject to the law"--really wants to discuss that what matters is confession leads to salvation, or iow the other side of the equation; now confession becomes unnecessary, see, in one who is not even "subject to the law."

we call these psychopaths or sociopaths

and the confusion all clears up when you observe in someone else that they either constitutionally cannot apologize or otherwise be seen to be wrong in the slightest way, or they can, and any little test you might devise will easily reveal this in someone else

A very mindful commentary.
Psychopaths, sociopaths, repeated confessions, apologies to men....clears up confusion of Scripture. Ugh!

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Helen]

you will be judged by your works, don't let anyone tell you any different;

Little children, do not be deceived

We dance the same old dance :)
But I can't let that be the last word....
God knew David's HEART not his works....
People wear themselves out trying hard, working to please God.
Ps 40
6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Never is it either/ Or...but both.

 

[Helen]

you will be judged by your works, don't let anyone tell you any different;

Little children, do not be deceived

( and @amadeus )
Mark, you say that we will be judged by our works.
Not so...it is our works which will be judged .
He will try every mans works of what sort they are, gold, silver and precious stones, or wood, hay or stubble. Tried by fire...go check it out.

1 Cor 3 13-15
13 "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

 

[bbyrd009]

A very mindful commentary.
Psychopaths, sociopaths, repeated confessions, apologies to men....clears up confusion of Scripture. Ugh!

God Bless,
Taken

hmm, i'd say observing how difficult or even impossible it is for some ppl to apologize is a pertinent reflection on the matter.

Dunno about "repeated confessions," that is a diff subject i guess.

If i offend someone in an hour, i would owe them an apology then, after i had sinned, not before or after, at least imo. However, if all of my sins are already forgiven, without having to forgive or confess, and i consider myself to be "not having to obey the law," then why confess to anything, right? And also why forgive?

 

[BreadOfLife]

@BreadOfLife

I have been reading your posts , as I always do.
So, do you personally DO to stay saved or do you personally DO because you love Him?

Once again it seems salvation and works get muddled. Yes, we do the works because it is a joy to serve Him, not to earn anything.
Salvation is a free gift of grace. Then we become love-slaves to our Lord.
If we continue "doing" just to 'stay saved' etc then we live under a cloud of fear not love.
I personally believe that is we quit 'doing' we are not unsaved, but will be paupers in the Kingdom.

Bless you...Helen

As Christians, we DO out of obedience to His will.
We obey Him because we love Him and want to spend eternity in His presence.

However, if we don't do His will , we won't be saved and spend eternity with Him.
As I have stated repeatedly - our works mean absolutely nothing by themselves. They only have merit when done out of true faith.

 

[BreadOfLife]

He was talking to "born again" Christians?

He was talking to Jews. The Jews did not call themselves Christians, nor do they today.

Jesus came to earth AS a Jew, to speak to Lost Jews, and chose Jews as His Disciples, and sent His Jewsih Disciples out to teach other Jews, the GOOD NEWS of HOW TO, become RELEASED from the CURSE of the LAW, and thus SAVED and BORN AGAIN "NOW". Jesus did not TEACH to BECOME A CHRISTIAN!! He taught to TRUST the Word of God has come in the Flesh to TEACH men HOW TO BECOME, saved and born again NOW.

IF you are going to TEACH Spiritual things, STICK to language of Spiritual things that Christ taught!

God Bless,
Taken

James was writing to Jewish CHRISTIANS.
There isn't one single Epistle in the New Testament that WASN'T written to Christians - so I don't know where you're getting your skewed information.

You disagree with the teaching about faith in James's Epistle because you have the same flawed views as Luther, who ALSO dismissed this Lelter as the "Epistle of Straw".

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yipes man. God desires us to BECOME SAVED. When that is accomplished, it's done.
God desires us to BECOME SAVED. When that is accomplished, it's done.

NOT according to the Bible . . .
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet.r 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)
And? Why pretend this is NEWS? That has already been CLEARLY ESTABLISHED!![/QUOTE]
Not according to YOU.
YOU stated that Jews could be saved by the Law. If you live by the Law and reject Christ - you won't be saved.

What APPLIES to the created heavenly host, does not APPLY to mankind.

The created heavenly host WAS CREATED HOLY!!! WHAT THEY KNOW is irrelevant!
WHAT THEY DO is paramount!
When they choose to STAND AGAINST GOD, they become UNHOLY, and have FALLEN away from Gods Grace.
There is NO SALVATION FOR THEM! They are Damned!

The created earthly host WAS CREATED "VERY GOOD"....NOT holy!.
WHAT they DO is paramount!
They can Become restored to GOOD.
They can Become quickened to HOLY.
Once achieved, By their subjection to the Lord, HIS POWER, restores them, quickens them, and KEEPS THEM FOREVER.
They can ALSO reject being restored or quickened, and become damned.

WRONG.

ANYBODY who rebels against God - man or angel - will be damned.

Your problem is LACK OF UNDERSTANDING, and knowing who, what, when, why, and how, Scripture APPLIES (ie you call cherry picking, while Scripture calls it DIVIDING THE WORLD OF TRUTH) and to whom, what, when why and how, Scripture DOES NOT APPLY.

Again, YOU LACK UNDERSTANDING....even when EXPRESSLY told to you.
Hey...youhooo....says one man, my mind is made up....I believe, I believe, I believe...
And another man says....oh, oh, oh, me too, I thought, and thought, and thought, and my mind is made up...I too believe, believe, believe.

BIG DEAL!! Such men can proclaim and yap all the want. THE CARNAL MIND of MAN, IS AGAINST GOD!!
And tomorrow those SAME "so called believing" men CAN ALSO MINDFULLY Reject BELIEF!!
It is with the HEART'S BELIFE, that a man SUBJECTS himself to the Lord!!

And ONCE a man does that....all this nilly willy nonsense a MAN can decide to not believe IS FALSE. Because such a man IMMEDIATELY receives a NEW HEART (from the Lord), and a NEW spirit, (from the Lord), that CAN NEVER EVER AGAIN NOT BELIEVE IN THE Lord!!!!!

WRONG.

The Bible tells us that we CAN fall away.
These verses speak to born again, spirit-filled CHRISTIANS - and not non-believers.
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet.r 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

YOUR man made view is contrary to the Word of God.

So? Why do you attempt to COMPARE KNOWLEDGE of a man to a created spirit?

Try COMPARING THE TRUTH of a man to the TRUTH of a created spirit.

A created spirit was CREATED HOLY. His falling from Grace, didn't wipe out his KNOWLEDGE,
It wiped out his HOLINESS. They were NOT KEPT HOLY, by Gods Power. They CHOOSE to remain Holy or Fall from holiness.

A created man, GAINS KNOWLEDGE, and must SUBJECT himself TO the Lord, to RECEIVE the Lord Grace to BECOME HOLY!
They ARE KEPT HOLY. By Gods Power.

Where do you get this garbage??
Certainly NOT from Scripture.

We are advised and warned to persevere.
We are never told that we can't help but be holy.
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet.r 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

 

[BreadOfLife]

BreadOfLife: OK I got your number. Thanks for the conversation. You have my words....

The door is always open to discussing what is really on your mind....and I know it is not me deciphering your scripture...that I can do at any time if you wish....you never answered that question. You have now replaced it, from me saying to you, do you want me to.... to, I won't..' Do you think you are really being truthful?

God Bless

APAK

APAK -
If you see a person who is misrepresenting Scripture - it is your DUTY to correct them.

If you truly had a case against the evidence I have presented - you would have presented it.

 

[APAK]

Taken: on further thought I may have stumbled on what you mean by 'your' definition/thinking that makes James under the law, and it is scriptural My hunch maybe completely wrong however.....

I believe the definition of 'under the Law' can get a little murky... and depending on it can change the way Grace is also looked upon. they are linked. Let me explain..

There are some folks that go around and say we need to keep the 10 commandments. ..we need to obey all the commands of God. I believe we are led to do this as a Christian. And I would wager to say that no one knows all the commands beyond what they can construe in the Bible.

This is where Grace pops in.....Now I am of the belief that Grace absorbs the LAW in its entirety. It fulfilled the LAW as scripture says. A set of many rules that did not permanently produce salvation except for a few credited with permanent salvation. Grace encompassed the LAW and what the LAW could not achieve, given through the carnal minds of men, the heart of God in man, did achieve. The LAW and all the commands beyond the Bible are written in our hearts to be followed for those in Christ through firm faith.

So if one says that James was under the LAW and means that it is embedded in his heart because of Grace, then I agree. He is really under the Grace only. And further, if one says that James gained special blessings because his Judahite clan and history under the LAW, and because he obey the LAW, I say no. And even if his brethren emphasized the things of the LAW during his life time. He was under grace and with no special blessings awarded him, any different from a person on the other end of the world under Grace.

I hope I hit a target of some kind ..Taken

APAK

 

[amadeus]

( and @amadeus )
Mark, you say that we will be judged by our works.
Not so...it is our works which will be judged .
He will try every mans works of what sort they are, gold, silver and precious stones, or wood, hay or stubble. Tried by fire...go check it out.

1 Cor 3 13-15
13 "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

And the two verses immediately preceding say:

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;" I Cor 3:11-12

The point is that if the foundation is right [Jesus Christ] then the person has salvation. If he lays corruptible things on it [wood, hay, stubble] the person has no additional reward, but the foundation of Jesus Christ is still there, which means salvation. The key if a person undermines the foundation the house will fall and then he has lost his salvation.

 

[APAK]

I understand all in what you are saying and agree..I may have a ? about when you say ".he loses the opportunity to have received rewards and blessing.." it seems minor in this discussion..

So my question still stands, why is James still under the Law when grace has been given to all believers in Christ, whether he/she be a Judahite, Judean or of of another foreign tribes or nation?

TAKEN:
I already posted this response without attaching a quote from yourself.

Taken: on further thought I may have stumbled on what you mean by 'your' definition/thinking that makes James under the law, and it is scriptural My hunch maybe completely wrong however.....

I believe the definition of 'under the Law' can get a little murky... and depending on it can change the way Grace is also looked upon. they are linked. Let me explain..

There are some folks that go around and say we need to keep the 10 commandments. ..we need to obey all the commands of God. I believe we are led to do this as a Christian. And I would wager to say that no one knows all the commands beyond what they can construe in the Bible.

This is where Grace pops in.....Now I am of the belief that Grace absorbs the LAW in its entirety. It fulfilled the LAW as scripture says. A set of many rules that did not permanently produce salvation except for a few credited with permanent salvation. Grace encompassed the LAW and what the LAW could not achieve, given through the carnal minds of men, the heart of God in man, did achieve. The LAW and all the commands beyond the Bible are written in our hearts to be followed for those in Christ through firm faith.

So if one says that James was under the LAW and means that it is embedded in his heart because of Grace, then I agree. He is really under the Grace only. And further, if one says that James gained special blessings because his Judahite clan and history under the LAW, and because he obey the LAW, I say no. And even if his brethren emphasized the things of the LAW during his life time. He was under grace and with no special blessings awarded him, any different from a person on the other end of the world under Grace.

I hope I hit a target of some kind ..Taken,, now I think I did

APAK