Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[Helen]

And the two verses immediately preceding say:

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;" I Cor 3:11-12

The point is that if the foundation is right [Jesus Christ] then the person has salvation. If he lays corruptible things on it [wood, hay, stubble] the person has no additional reward, but the foundation of Jesus Christ is still there, which means salvation. The key if a person undermines the foundation the house will fall and then he has lost his salvation.

Thanks...

I was with you until your last two lines...I will have to chew on that. :)
I still can't 'go there'.

Bless you...kiss Kathy for valentines...it's not 'too' heathen

 

[amadeus]

Thanks...

I was with you until your last two lines...I will have to chew on that. :)
I still can't 'go there'.

Bless you...kiss Kathy for valentines...it's not 'too' heathen

Thanks for the smile. Kathy will appreciate it. Tell Dave he should take the same course.

 

[Helen]

As Christians, we DO out of obedience to His will.
We obey Him because we love Him and want to spend eternity in His presence.

However, if we don't do His will , we won't be saved and spend eternity with Him.
As I have stated repeatedly - our works mean absolutely nothing by themselves. They only have merit when done out of true faith.

Thanks.
Okay, was the prodigal son still a son of his father when he wasn't doing his will in the pig pen?
Did the father still consider him a son when he was in the pig pen?

He was restored when he came back...and he got all the treats and favours when he came back. ( rewards and blessings) ..but I see no place where it states that the father did not consider him his son.

bless you...H

 

[Helen]

@BreadOfLife PS I think my above post is a picture of the kingdom.
There will be sons who dwell in the House...and pig-pen sons who are not very blessed but still sons.
( wise and foolish virgins)

 

[Taken]

Taken: Maybe I'm missing your point(s)? I do incidentally understand and believe in essence what you have say. You have laid out the parts of the history of the personage of God, the two key components of the inner man/woman and which are used, to be in Christ and, to grow in Christ, quite well.

I just do not see in this writing of you bridging the idea that there were some that performed works under the LAW when it was fulfilled by grace, and works were attached to faith and belief in Christ. Works that are led by the spirit of God, in the heart and not by the natural mind using your style.

See, without explicit scripture support or implicit scripture support of several kinds that must harmonize, at this point I cannot determine anything and come to any conclusion.

Is there a special 'Jew' insert grace by the law in your thinking that is not really substantiated by scripture, and it just a deep logical conclusion of yours? Can you construct a chain of scripture that supports that James was still under the law and was also a believer.....?
Or are you saying that all believers back then were under both the law and grace....??

Take care brother,

APAK

We have to recognize, Hebrew men, were chosen, and submitted to being the chosen people, WHO would hear, keep, and eventually spread the Word of God.

They heard, (some kept, some didn't), and pretty much failed at spreading the Word of God. (Going forward, the split, Hebrew Tribes, 8 to the north, 2 to the south), then all of those with Hebrew descent being called Jews (as were the tribe of Judah called, and Benjamin's Tribe joint in with Judah) ie the 2 southern Tribes.
They were the general KEEPERS of the Law, regardless, of ALL, who descend and then and now call themselves Jews (ie blood line Stock from Abraham/Isaac/Jacob)
THAT, Has not changed.

What did change, was grafting of the Gentiles. That is effected, by a Gentile, accepting Christ Jesus, submitting and subjecting them self TO HIM.....
NOT JEWISH LAW.

A Gentile WHO Subject themselves TO CHRIST JESUS, thereafter receives FROM CHRIST JESUS...forgiveness, saving, quickening, new heart, new spirit, the Lord Holy Spirit....

The Jews, who "failed" to SPREAD the Word of God around the World...is NOW, effected, BY, Gentiles, WHO HAVE subjected, elected, Christ Jesus and BECOME saved and born again NOW.

THEY, receive ALSO the blessing, and PROMISE, God gave TO Abraham, (ie Land inheritance to all of his ' particular stock descendants " and all WHO become his "descendants"....ie Abraham a father of many nations.)

The PROMISE is particular.
First Abraham's STOCK descendants receive...
But there is a CAVEAT....
It pertains to ONLY Abraham's STOCK descendants WHO have received the SAME Seed, that Abraham received....which is the Seed of God, ie which IS Christ.

(The Day Abraham received THAT SEED, is the day after Abraham was at the slaughter, and Was blessed by the "king of Salem".)

Other men, (Jews, mostly in Jesus' day, and even some today, calling themselves Messianic Jews), have also RECEIVE that same SEED as did Abraham, ie the Seed of God, ie Christ indwelling.)

Men of Jesus day, and today, ALSO receive the Seed of God....and LIKE JESUS DID, Gentiles, TAKE ON THEMELVES, the "seed of Abraham"....which MAKES THEM, a son of Abraham, .... BY PROMISE....they become "sons of Abraham"...thus ENTITLED to Abrahams "INHERITANCE", which is LAND.

The LAND inheritance IS necessary for a man to HAVE....since that LAND, IS WHERE Christ's earthly Kingdom shall be situated.
IF Jesus, If Gentiles, IF certain "stock" descendants of ABRAHAM, 'do not" have entitlement to "Abraham's" Land, they can not have LEGAL entitlement to ever occupy that Land. The God, make that provision, BY PROMISE, and gave Jesus, and every man, opportunity to BECOME a son of Abraham...
With the future prepared Long ago.

STRESSING...

Jesus DID NOT destroy the LAW.
Pretty handy, since, many Jews, did not, do not subject themselves to Christ Jesus.

Thus their SAVING, remains UNDER the confines OF THE LAW. They endure, their subjection to OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW, and their repeated "forgivenesses". Just like the OT men did. (Whom we know were saved...
As they were called Saints, beloved, friends, in Gods grace, etc.)
(Slight issue they have to deal with for the last 2,000 years, is having no sacrificing alter in Jerusalem for slaughter, and blood, for forgiveness of their sins, according to their Law)

The Gentile however, who HAS accepted and elected submission TO Christ Jesus, had their Forgiveness effected, ONCE, by Christ's BLOOD, and their Salvation effected ONCE, by HIS BODY, accepting HIS BLOOD, HIS BODY, in their stead.

The TEACHING OF the Hebrews/Jews, has not changed. It is still the Word of God. It is still Truth. Much of His Word has BEEN accomplished and Fulfilled. It doesn't require to be RE-accomplished. It dose require recognizing and trusting to believe WHAT was accomplished and fulfilled.

The Hebrew/Jewish TEACHING, is still in effect, within their LAWS, of WHAT THINGS GLORIFY GOD.

For a Gentile (or anyone who has become saved and born again).....

The Hebrew/Jewish Teaching of WHAT Glorifies God, IS paramount to KNOW, for anyone (saved and born again) WHO DESIRES to Glorify God.

And God shall reward them for such works.

THE paramount point is;
The Hebrews/Jews have always had the Lords teaching, from the beginning, when the Lord gave His word to THEM.

THEY ARE THE TEACHERS, via the Lords Word, He spoke, He gave, He instructed it be rehearsed in the their ears, and Written, and Copied, and distributed, and Kept preserved.

The paramount point is;
Gentiles (even Jews), who ARE Saved and born again, are NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW or SUBJeCT TO THE CURSES OF THE LAW...

But yet have an everlasting WORD of God, of HOW TO GLORIFY HIS NAME.

SO..did Jews, in Jesus day teach other Jews, ABOUT Christ Jesus being the Messiah of the Lord in the Flesh, walking among men, having the Power of Forgiveness and the Saving Grace of the God ....while using terms common to them? Sure.

Was this NEW to the Jews hearing? Yes.
Were they still saying, violation of the Law was a SIN? Yes. Why?

Because they were learning something new in their hearts thoughts, while still having thoughts in their mind.

Just like today. 2,000 years later. Saved and born again men, ooh ooh, AMEN, yet continue to have thoughts in their MIND, that ignores the thought of their Heart, and what is in their MINDS THOUGHTS, falls out of their mouth....and speaks...what is CONTRARY to what the Spirit of the Lord IN their hearts, has taught the mans own new spirit in his new heart.

Does that resonate?

It is precisely what Paul speaks of...
The battle, the struggle, within one man, with carnal mindful thoughts, and with a new spirits thought.....and often the thoughts of mind wins, when the mouth opens.

Remembering, God did not change our carnal minds. He changed our spirits in our hearts.

His supernatural power resonates in our Heart. We still retain the natural power over our Minds. And either thought, MINDFULLY, or SPIRITUALL, can fall out of our mouths.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

hmm, i'd say observing how difficult or even impossible it is for some ppl to apologize is a pertinent reflection on the matter.

Apologies; yes I would say men desire, for all kinds of things.

Scripturally; forgiveness between men is for trespassing.

If i offend someone in an hour, i would owe them an apology then, after i had sinned, not before or after, at least imo.

And what?, your expectation is for them to forgive you of "your SIN"?

And when you offend another, what? You forgive them of "their SIN"?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

you will be judged by your works, don't let anyone tell you any different;

Little children, do not be deceived

Of course men IN CHRIST have the Lords judgement pertaining to a mans works.

Gee, IF the Lord does not JUDGE what works a man HAS DONE, how would He be thereafter be able to REWARD Works that glorify His Name?

No one has said anything different!

Do not be deceived....Works do not Save a man. Good Works by the man, is the basis for WHAT rewards the Lord shall GIVE HIM.
And absolutely the Lord keeps track of Works a man does to Glorify His Name.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

James was writing to Jewish CHRISTIANS.

Please quote me James written words of his own Letter, TO....Christians.

There isn't one single Epistle in the New Testament that WASN'T written to Christians -

You should actually read the Letters so written, because they are all to Saints, without a mention of Christians.

so I don't know where you're getting your skewed information.

Of course you don't. Because you change the Language of Scripture to fit your Mind-set, then attempt to argue Spiritual things, with the thoughts of your mind.

You disagree

Hold on pal. Pay attention. I DISAGREE WITH YOU, and YOUR RENDITION and YOUR UNDERSTANDING.

with the teaching about faith in James's Epistle

Don't speak FOR ME.

because you have the same flawed views as Luther, who ALSO dismissed this Lelter as the "Epistle of Straw".

Pay attention, of WHO IS DOING THE DISMISSING .... oh RIGHT, that is YOU speaking for me.....or you could have quoted me saying WHAT YOU CLAIM FOR ME.

And Luther, nice deflection, that has NOTHING what so ever to do with the conversation!

You want to Pretend you ARE a Jew, and your Salvation is dependenat upon OBEDIENCE to WORKS revealed within Jewish LAW....have at it.

Doesn't affect me. I AM saved and born again, and it had NOTHING to do with doing or not doing Works revealed within Jewish Laws!

So get it straight, it is YOU I disagree with, what you teach and the manner in which you teach.

"IF" I "WERE" to dismiss ANY Scripture, be courteous enough to allow me to SPEAK for myself, instead of you pretending you have been authorized to speak for me, because you have not been given any such authority.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

And what?, your expectation is for them to forgive you of "your SIN"?

hmm, i would not have any expectation there; that would be up to them.

And when you offend another, what? You forgive them of "their SIN"?

ah, that does not even make any sense to me, sry. Might in a half hour tho lol

 

[bbyrd009]

Of course men IN CHRIST have the Lords judgement pertaining to a mans works.

funny that the verse makes no mention of this qualification though huh

 

[bbyrd009]

Gee, IF the Lord does not JUDGE what works a man HAS DONE, how would He be thereafter be able to REWARD Works that glorify His Name?

similarly, and possibly much more pertinently, if we do not judge a man according to their works, how would we be able to determine truth? So then, works are also fruit i guess.

i say possibly much more pertinent bc i would not encourage a servant to expect rewards for doing what they are supposed to be doing anyway

 

[BreadOfLife]

Thanks.
Okay, was the prodigal son still a son of his father when he wasn't doing his will in the pig pen?
Did the father still consider him a son when he was in the pig pen?

He was restored when he came back...and he got all the treats and favours when he came back. ( rewards and blessings) ..but I see no place where it states that the father did not consider him his son.

bless you...H

The above text in RED says it all.
We CAN come back - but that is up to US.

 

[Taken]

similarly, and possibly much more pertinently, if we do not judge a man according to their works, how would we be able to determine truth? So then, works are also fruit i guess.

God is not limited, to KNOW anything.
We are limited. We can only know by what we hear and see.

If another man is heard exalting the Lord, hey, a man may certainly hear and think that a good fruit.

If another man is seen doing things that glorify the Lord, hey, a man may certainly see and think that a good fruit.

MEN are limited...they do not always HEAR, from a mans heart, sometimes what they HEAR is from a mans mind.

MEN are limited...they do not always SEE from a mans heart, doing works TO Glorify God, sometimes what they SEE is from a mans mind, doing what glorifies themselves.

It is no matter, if men are fooled, and men are not giving rewards for their behavior.

God is not fooled, and He is the one keeping track of works that glorify His Name, and He is the one who doles out blessing and rewards.

i say possibly much more pertinent bc i would not encourage a servant to expect rewards for doing what they are supposed to be doing anyway

I say blessing and gifts and rewards, because the Scripture says so.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

funny that the verse makes no mention of this qualification though huh

Come on man ~ If a man is going to discuss Spiritual things, he should have some basic knowledge of numerous Scriptures.

If he doesn't, he should be the student, with his one mouth closed and his two ears opened.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

Please quote me James written words of his own Letter, TO....Christians.
You should actually read the Letters so written, because they are all to Saints, without a mention of Christians.

Of course you don't. Because you change the Language of Scripture to fit your Mind-set, then attempt to argue Spiritual things, with the thoughts of your mind.

Hold on pal. Pay attention. I DISAGREE WITH YOU, and YOUR RENDITION and YOUR UNDERSTANDING.

Don't speak FOR ME.

Pay attention, of WHO IS DOING THE DISMISSING .... oh RIGHT, that is YOU speaking for me.....or you could have quoted me saying WHAT YOU CLAIM FOR ME.

And Luther, nice deflection, that has NOTHING what so ever to do with the conversation!

You want to Pretend you ARE a Jew, and your Salvation is dependenat upon OBEDIENCE to WORKS revealed within Jewish LAW....have at it.

Doesn't affect me. I AM saved and born again, and it had NOTHING to do with doing or not doing Works revealed within Jewish Laws!

So get it straight, it is YOU I disagree with, what you teach and the manner in which you teach.

"IF" I "WERE" to dismiss ANY Scripture, be courteous enough to allow me to SPEAK for myself, instead of you pretending you have been authorized to speak for me, because you have not been given any such authority.

God Bless,
Taken

You can continue to pretend that the Epistle of James wasn't written to Christians - but the entire New Testament was written TO Christians, FOR Christians and BY Christians. Every Gospel - every Epistle was written to born again believers.

As for your displeasure with the Epistle of James - you DO disagree with it because he spells out what true faith is - and YOU have a problem with it.

Finally - IF you are born again, you had to have been Baptized (Mark 16:16, John 3:5, Acts 2:38, 1 Pet. 3:21).
Baptism is something we DO . . .

 

[Taken]

You can continue to pretend that the Epistle of James wasn't written to Christians -

And you can REVEAL in Scripture, it was TO, FOR, and BY, Christians, which it should Plainly Say, what you claim

but the entire New Testament was written TO Christians, FOR Christians and BY Christians. Every Gospel - every Epistle was written to born again believers.

As for your displeasure with the Epistle of James -

As for you SPEAKING FOR ME AGAIN, WHAT DON'T YOU GET, MY WORDS ARE SUFFICIENT FOR ME. WHEN YOU SPEAK FOR ME, YOUR WORDS ARE FALSE. DO YOU HAVE ANY CLUE THAT SPEAKING FALSE WORDS IS A LIE?

IF YOU CANNOT REFRAIN FROM SPEAKING YOUR WORDS FOR ME, AFTER BEING RESPEATEDLY ASKED TO STOP, I WILL REPORT YOU.

you DO disagree with it

"It" ? You want me to refer to you as an IT?
I plainly told you, I disagree with YOU...

YOU have a problem with it.

You obviously CAN NOT refrain from speaking for me. Go Away.

Finally - IF you are born again...

Go Away.

 

[BreadOfLife]

We have to recognize, Hebrew men, were chosen, and submitted to being the chosen people, WHO would hear, keep, and eventually spread the Word of God.

Thus their SAVING, remains UNDER the confines OF THE LAW. They endure, their subjection to OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW, and their repeated "forgivenesses". Just like the OT men did. (Whom we know were saved...
As they were called Saints, beloved, friends, in Gods grace, etc.)
(Slight issue they have to deal with for the last 2,000 years, is having no sacrificing alter in Jerusalem for slaughter, and blood, for forgiveness of their sins, according to their Law)

The Hebrew/Jewish TEACHING, is still in effect, within their LAWS, of WHAT THINGS GLORIFY GOD.

There is so much perversion here - it's difficult to know where to begin.

There is only ONE WAY to the Father and that is through Jesus Christ. Neither Moses, nor Abraham nor Jacob nor ANY of the prophets were saved by works of the LAW. They were saved by the Blood of Christ, which is the ONLY way.

First of all - works and disciplines of the Law were simply a SHADOW of what was to come.
The reality is Christ (Col. 2:16-17) who FULFILLED the Law which NOBODY is bound by anymore.

the Jews rejected christ - and those who practice the Jewish faith to this day reject Christ.
You cannot reject Crist and hope to be saved. This applies to everybody:

Luke 10:16
“The one who hears YOU hears ME, and the one who rejects YOU rejects ME, and the one who rejects ME rejects HIM who sent ME.”

 

[BreadOfLife]

And you can REVEAL in Scripture, it was TO, FOR, and BY, Christians, which it should Plainly Say, what you claim

Really??
WHERE does it say that it is written to practicing Jews??

As for you SPEAKING FOR ME AGAIN, WHAT DON'T YOU GET, MY WORDS ARE SUFFICIENT FOR ME. WHEN YOU SPEAK FOR ME, YOUR WORDS ARE FALSE. DO YOU HAVE ANY CLUE THAT SPEAKING FALSE WORDS IS A LIE?
IF YOU CANNOT REFRAIN FROM SPEAKING YOUR WORDS FOR ME, AFTER BEING RESPEATEDLY ASKED TO STOP, I WILL REPORT YOU.

Report me for what, exactly?? For responding to your posts??
I haven't insulted you or spoken ill of you - not even once or broken any rules.

If you are going to disagree with what Scripture says - then prepare to be held accountable for it.

"It" ? You want me to refer to you as an IT?
I plainly told you, I disagree with YOU...

No - you disagree with James, and the Holy Spirit who inspired his Epistle.

You obviously CAN NOT refrain from speaking for me. Go Away.
Go Away.

This is an OPEN forum. If you are going to write this nonsense - then I will respond by holding you accountable.
In the mean time - if it angers you to be on a forum like this - I suggest you either find another hobby - or put me on "Ignore."

It won't stop me from weeding out falsehoods and exposing them, however.[/QUOTE]

 

[APAK]

We have to recognize, Hebrew men, were chosen, and submitted to being the chosen people, WHO would hear, keep, and eventually spread the Word of God.

They heard, (some kept, some didn't), and pretty much failed at spreading the Word of God. (Going forward, the split, Hebrew Tribes, 8 to the north, 2 to the south), then all of those with Hebrew descent being called Jews (as were the tribe of Judah called, and Benjamin's Tribe joint in with Judah) ie the 2 southern Tribes.
They were the general KEEPERS of the Law, regardless, of ALL, who descend and then and now call themselves Jews (ie blood line Stock from Abraham/Isaac/Jacob)
THAT, Has not changed.

What did change, was grafting of the Gentiles. That is effected, by a Gentile, accepting Christ Jesus, submitting and subjecting them self TO HIM.....
NOT JEWISH LAW.

A Gentile WHO Subject themselves TO CHRIST JESUS, thereafter receives FROM CHRIST JESUS...forgiveness, saving, quickening, new heart, new spirit, the Lord Holy Spirit....

The Jews, who "failed" to SPREAD the Word of God around the World...is NOW, effected, BY, Gentiles, WHO HAVE subjected, elected, Christ Jesus and BECOME saved and born again NOW.

THEY, receive ALSO the blessing, and PROMISE, God gave TO Abraham, (ie Land inheritance to all of his ' particular stock descendants " and all WHO become his "descendants"....ie Abraham a father of many nations.)

The PROMISE is particular.
First Abraham's STOCK descendants receive...
But there is a CAVEAT....
It pertains to ONLY Abraham's STOCK descendants WHO have received the SAME Seed, that Abraham received....which is the Seed of God, ie which IS Christ.

(The Day Abraham received THAT SEED, is the day after Abraham was at the slaughter, and Was blessed by the "king of Salem".)

Other men, (Jews, mostly in Jesus' day, and even some today, calling themselves Messianic Jews), have also RECEIVE that same SEED as did Abraham, ie the Seed of God, ie Christ indwelling.)

Men of Jesus day, and today, ALSO receive the Seed of God....and LIKE JESUS DID, Gentiles, TAKE ON THEMELVES, the "seed of Abraham"....which MAKES THEM, a son of Abraham, .... BY PROMISE....they become "sons of Abraham"...thus ENTITLED to Abrahams "INHERITANCE", which is LAND.

The LAND inheritance IS necessary for a man to HAVE....since that LAND, IS WHERE Christ's earthly Kingdom shall be situated.
IF Jesus, If Gentiles, IF certain "stock" descendants of ABRAHAM, 'do not" have entitlement to "Abraham's" Land, they can not have LEGAL entitlement to ever occupy that Land. The God, make that provision, BY PROMISE, and gave Jesus, and every man, opportunity to BECOME a son of Abraham...
With the future prepared Long ago.

STRESSING...

Jesus DID NOT destroy the LAW.
Pretty handy, since, many Jews, did not, do not subject themselves to Christ Jesus.

Thus their SAVING, remains UNDER the confines OF THE LAW. They endure, their subjection to OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW, and their repeated "forgivenesses". Just like the OT men did. (Whom we know were saved...
As they were called Saints, beloved, friends, in Gods grace, etc.)
(Slight issue they have to deal with for the last 2,000 years, is having no sacrificing alter in Jerusalem for slaughter, and blood, for forgiveness of their sins, according to their Law)

The Gentile however, who HAS accepted and elected submission TO Christ Jesus, had their Forgiveness effected, ONCE, by Christ's BLOOD, and their Salvation effected ONCE, by HIS BODY, accepting HIS BLOOD, HIS BODY, in their stead.

The TEACHING OF the Hebrews/Jews, has not changed. It is still the Word of God. It is still Truth. Much of His Word has BEEN accomplished and Fulfilled. It doesn't require to be RE-accomplished. It dose require recognizing and trusting to believe WHAT was accomplished and fulfilled.

The Hebrew/Jewish TEACHING, is still in effect, within their LAWS, of WHAT THINGS GLORIFY GOD.

For a Gentile (or anyone who has become saved and born again).....

The Hebrew/Jewish Teaching of WHAT Glorifies God, IS paramount to KNOW, for anyone (saved and born again) WHO DESIRES to Glorify God.

And God shall reward them for such works.

THE paramount point is;
The Hebrews/Jews have always had the Lords teaching, from the beginning, when the Lord gave His word to THEM.

THEY ARE THE TEACHERS, via the Lords Word, He spoke, He gave, He instructed it be rehearsed in the their ears, and Written, and Copied, and distributed, and Kept preserved.

The paramount point is;
Gentiles (even Jews), who ARE Saved and born again, are NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW or SUBJeCT TO THE CURSES OF THE LAW...

But yet have an everlasting WORD of God, of HOW TO GLORIFY HIS NAME.

SO..did Jews, in Jesus day teach other Jews, ABOUT Christ Jesus being the Messiah of the Lord in the Flesh, walking among men, having the Power of Forgiveness and the Saving Grace of the God ....while using terms common to them? Sure.

Was this NEW to the Jews hearing? Yes.
Were they still saying, violation of the Law was a SIN? Yes. Why?

Because they were learning something new in their hearts thoughts, while still having thoughts in their mind.

Just like today. 2,000 years later. Saved and born again men, ooh ooh, AMEN, yet continue to have thoughts in their MIND, that ignores the thought of their Heart, and what is in their MINDS THOUGHTS, falls out of their mouth....and speaks...what is CONTRARY to what the Spirit of the Lord IN their hearts, has taught the mans own new spirit in his new heart.

Does that resonate?

It is precisely what Paul speaks of...
The battle, the struggle, within one man, with carnal mindful thoughts, and with a new spirits thought.....and often the thoughts of mind wins, when the mouth opens.

Remembering, God did not change our carnal minds. He changed our spirits in our hearts.

His supernatural power resonates in our Heart. We still retain the natural power over our Minds. And either thought, MINDFULLY, or SPIRITUALL, can fall out of our mouths.

God Bless,
Taken

Brother Taken: I hear was you have said, and I still will agree to disagree on this subject for several reasons. I just got back from a V’day restaurant meal with my wife….off topic I know..

Let me try to translate was you wrote….well only some of it now as it has a lot of stuff in it…

1. There is a strong emphasis in your writings that you believe the Hebrews, then Israelites, continue today as the ’Jews’, on a secret special mission for God to mankind.

2. You say that these people were intended to carry the word of God to the entire world you say. Is there support in scripture for this statement? There is scripture however that supports the idea that no matter what people were chosen of God, they were chosen to demonstrate to creation that they would always fail without the spirit of God regenerating their fallen state. This is scriptural. They were doomed from the start. God was using them to show mankind that without his spirit and presence within us we are sinners and death is the result. Yes, he gave the them all a chance to gain credit for salvation, although many rejected God, his prophets and his commands within the LAW.

2. You believe because the stock of the Hebrews were the ones with the word of God and they were the ones that ‘gave us’ grace and salvation, they continue to be special people today as Jews.

3. I have the impression that you think that Hebrews exist as ‘Jews’ today as a nation, a collective. And as a collective they will be ‘saved’ collectively, at one time. I totally disagree if this is the case…read on..

3. You have used as one as your support scriptures in Romans 11… to confirm that the chosen ones of old are special today – even the ‘Jews.’ It speaks of the true vine and the natural branch(es) being ‘cut off,’ not unrooted. And that those that were not Judahites from other nations were grafted into the natural vine/tree. And that one day in the future those cut off with be back on their nature vine. Meanwhile, those not of the natural branches need not boast with pride else they can also be cut-off. This scripture is incidentally used by those that support ‘you can lose your salvation.’ They just misapply it…….

Wow this is going to be long….

4. I don’t agree with your meaning of the LAW, not being destroyed. As you believe it is being kept alive by God for the Jews to ‘work in’ for salvation. They were living with the LAW and the new faith in Christ simultaneously. I can appreciate that fact. So, you believe that God made an exception for them at that time and even today, to work both sides of the fence, so to speak. This is not scriptural. Jesus fulfilled the LAW. He completed it within himself for us to know, in our hearts.

5. Your major thought that there is a spiritual thread in force today for the continuance of the Hebrews from the time of Abraham through the ‘Jews’ today, is folly. Yes, the Hebrew teachings of what glorifies God is still enforce, although I don’t rely on them as I use my heart today to glorify God. His spirit resonates with mine and I glorify him in this inner room I call the heart and to my real home, where the doors of the new Kingdom are open to me.

5. I do not believe that God gave the ‘Jews’ the Lords teachings. Yes, to the Hebrew and Israelites. I guess I already let the cat out of the bag as you might become displeased with my explanation later down in the on this subject. You might really be upset with me if you are a Messianic Jew, and it will not be because I wish to do this to you. I just want to tell the truth as I know it.

6. The last part of your text concerning resonation I have no problem with…

Let me continue with a part 2 reply as this all won't fit...

APAK continues....

 

[APAK]

Taken Part 2..

Here are some of my concerns..


I would not use the term Jew today for those that represent the Hebrews and Israelites, and of being same blood stock. They are not and never have been. Nearly all surviving Judahites or Judeans that were of the blood stock of the Israelites were either Christian converts or were living outside Judea or were dead by 70 AD. God deliberately planned it that way to mark the spiritual and physical separation of the significance of Jerusalem, the temple worship and worship under the LAW. It was over for good.


Those very, very few of the true Israelite stock most probably assimilated into other cultures and nations. Those that survived and stayed most probably stay in the LAW and supported the persecution of Christians and began developing the Jerusalem Talmud, and they did. Their brethren from Babylonia already were well underway with their version of the Talmud.


Today, virtually all those calling themselves Judeans, of Jude, or Judea, or using the modern English 17th century term ‘Jew’ are ancestors of Judaic converts that were of an Asiatic-Turkish stock. They previously practiced Phallic symbols. They were the Khazarians of the Black sea. They converted to the religion of Judaism (codified as a religion around 500 AD). Their spiritual legacy is completely Pharisee-based. Their Pharisaic rabbis carried the torch from the 1st century into the 21st century of a twisted religion composed of bits of the Bible, the Babylonian Talmud (very ant-Christian) and the readings or sayings of their teachers.


The title and the people called Jewish or a Jew hijacked the titles and the peoples called Judahites, Israelites and Hebrews. People, especially gullible Christians call Jews the chosen people which is completely false.


Ironically, I’ve been invited to do an informal slide show tomorrow on Jewish genealogy for some older Jews in their Temple. Do you think I will tell them that the furthest ancestor they will ever find is one that lived on the coast of the Black sea around 800 AD? I think some know this fact already.


These are reformed Jews-are the most liberal around. Some don’t even believe that the Torah was inspired? There are about 6 branches of Judaism or Jews developed in degrees of conservatism. Orthodoxy being the strictest…. And there are not that many..they are declining in membership.


So, what can I say about the political state of Israel…I guess you can read between the lines of what I’ve already said.


So I really have a hard time believing Taken, that the Jews are the torch-bearers for the word of God or for any special event in the future….I still will listen and learn what I can though…keeping an open-mind..prove me wrong..really...




APAK​

 

[Taken]

Brother Taken: I hear was you have said, and I still will agree to disagree on this subject for several reasons. I just got back from a V’day restaurant meal with my wife….off topic I know..

Let me try to translate was you wrote….well only some of it now as it has a lot of stuff in it…

1. There is a strong emphasis in your writings that you believe the Hebrews, then Israelites, continue today as the ’Jews’, on a secret special mission for God to mankind.


APAK continues....

Not sure what you mean by "secret special mission".

I believe God chose, the People agreed, and God gave the Hebrews direction to hear, write, teach and preserve the Word of God, and the Jews continued.

God Bless,
Taken